Averagemons - See new thread

[GoldenSandslash15]

So, here's the team that I made, though in practice, it doesn't appear to be as good as I originally envisioned. Any advice would be appreciated.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick

Sweeper with the ability to Baton Pass its boosts, as boosts are very much needed in this meta.

Jolteon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Agility

Once again, Baton Passing. Quick Feet is there to remove Speed ties.

Ariados @ Black Sludge
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Toxic Spikes
- X-Scissor
- Baton Pass

Entry hazard setter. Particularly for Sticky Web.

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Shadow Ball

To deal with the opponent's Sticky Web, meet Magic Bounce. Can also sweep a bunch with Stored Power once it has been Baton Passed enough boosts.

Gorebyss @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

Swift Swim is to take advantage of an opposing rain team. The rest exists for more Baton Passing. Everything on this team carries Baton Pass, as the boosts are extremely helpful in a meta where all stats are equal.

Ambipom @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Taunt
- Baton Pass

And Taunt is just to stop an opponent from doing any setup moves of their own, or Baton Passing themselves.

Having said that, this team does die very quickly to Mega Kangaskhan as well as priority moves. Because once one Pokémon faints, the Baton Passed boosts are lost and the entire team falls apart.

 

[escarlata]

A interesting note is that now regular Rotom suddenly becomes one of the best spinblocker because of its unique typing, allowing it to take on many Defog users, and spinners. Another noteworthy Pokemon with this change in BST will be Kecleon, being arguably a better Greninja thanks to its fantastic movepool. I like how Kecleon has just the movepool to run a Physical set with PuP, Sucker Punch, Shadow Claw and Drain Punch, being able to switch typing to abuse Protean for defensive purposes. Alternatively, it can run a special set with BoltBeam, Flamethrower + Recover.

 

[skies]

Guys, is nobody talking about how great Vivillon is? Really?
Vivillon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
This set absolutely annihilates! With great bulk and access to the most reliable Sleep move bar Spore, coupled with delicious Hurricane and Quiver Dance. This Pokemon is definitely a big threat to this metagame.

 

[Adonzo]

So for the most part, Mega Evolutions are useless in this meta, as they have the same stats as their base form and can't hold items. Even in the case of Shadow Tag Gengar, why bother when Gothitelle and Wobbuffet have the same stats without the need to evolve, and can hold items?

The only exceptions I can think of are in the case of advantageous typing changes, or particularly good abilities. One way to maybe keep Mega Evolutions somewhat "Mega" would be to still grant them a stat bonus, but one that remains "average", to say 115 or 120 across the board?

EDIT: Actually, I guess HP doesn't change across form changes / mega evolution, making the math simpler. Since Mega Evolutions normally all get a +100 boost to BST, the new spread for megas should be 100/120/120/120/120/120

 

[scene]

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Lax Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic/Yawn

Puts a hard stop to any boosting sweepers thanks to unaware. Probably will get used just because it can beat Linoone 1-on-1. Also stops Swoobat and Shell Smashers. Quag will be a very valuable tool for stall in this meta.

Seed Bomb's a staple move on Linoone in normal NU, so that's something to keep in mind since that's the main place people will be taking movesets from.

 

[Halliday]

So calm mind lugia is a major threat. Although having heavy competition from swoobat, lugia can definitely hold it's own due to multiscale, and aeroblast. These two moves make it a much more defensive setupper. and very viable.

 

[EV]

Things that have soft boosts built into their abilities will probably get more consideration because you get an advantage before the opponent.

Hustle, Guts, Toxic Boost, Flare Boost, Quick Feet, Fur Coat, and Download all carry increases or pseudo increases to a stat that activate when the user switches in (with orbs active in the case of Guts, Toxic Boost, Flare Boost, and Quick Feet.) And Intimidate, for a reverse effect. Base 100s at -1 Attack are not very strong.

Some notables (and some already mentioned) include Ursaring (Guts and Quick Feet)/Zangoose (Toxic Boost), Togekiss, Rufflet, Raticate (Guts and Hustle), Zweilous, Porygon-Z, and Jolteon.

Also, what about some pre-evolutions that are now better than their evolutions?
Poison Heal Shroomish>Breloom? No more x4 Flying weakness.
Arena Trap Trapinch for sure. Is it better than Dugtrio?
Sheer Force Bagon?
Adaptability Eevee?

 

[AWailOfATail]

Finally, a meta where Sunkern is viable.

And it's all really about the movepool. Anything can now be a special wall. Just slap on an Assault Vest.

 

[Halliday]

I would say it's all about the ability. Movepools can be worked around, abilities cannot. An example of this is palkia vs kingdra. With palkia, you have a much larger movepool, containing things like aura sphere, tbolt, thunder, fire blast and probably stuff I'm forgetting. But with kingdra, you have a better setup sweeper, using scope lens + focus energy along with sniper to effectively gain a boost stronger than nasty plot, that lets you use draco, and breaks past quagsire.

 

[canno]

This is pure theorymon, but Gyarados seems like it's a huge threat.


Gyarados @ Leftovers / Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate / Moxie
EVs: 44 Spd / 252 Atk / 212 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce / Stone Edge
- Substitute / Earthquake / Stone Edge

This thing seems like it could be a monster. Intimidate and 212 HP makes this thing extremely bulky, since 100 base at -1 is pretty weak. Moxie can be chosen over Intimidate for a snowball effect. 44 Spd is there because that's all you need to outspeed Scarf base 100 at +2. It also lets you outpace unboosted base 100 at +1. Both of these are with a positive nature. Waterfall and Bounce are STAB, and the last move can be either Sub or EQ. Stone Edge is also a choice to hit Rotom-W with, although it probably won't be doing much. If Rotom-W is a big threat to you, you could run Gyaradosite and hit it hard with a SE Mold Breaker EQ.

Other Pokemon that can run a similar set are: RP Lando-T, DD Salamence, DD Dragonite, AgiliPlot Thundy-T, SwordPolish Lando-T, DoubleDance Haxorus, and a lot more that I am missing. Anything that boosts speed should run 44 speed (excluding speed creep) imo, as pretty much everything that doesn't boost speed either has no speed EVs (or only has some to speed creep to prevent speed ties), max speed EVs, or has a choice scarf anyways.

 

[Halliday]

There are a lot of good intimidate abusers out there, like granbull, mawile, qwilfish, arcanine, dnite, gyarados, landot, arbok, staraptor, krookodile, luxray, stoutland, scrafty, and hitmontop (basically all intimidaters are good, but each of these have their own nice, such as qwilfish getting t-spikes, arcanine participating in fwg cores, gyarados setting up, arbok using coil, luxray being bad ass etc...)

 

[AWailOfATail]

There are a lot of good intimidate abusers out there, like granbull, mawile, qwilfish, arcanine, dnite, gyarados, landot, arbok, staraptor, krookodile, luxray, stoutland, scrafty, and hitmontop (basically all intimidaters are good, but each of these have their own nice, such as qwilfish getting t-spikes, arcanine participating in fwg cores, gyarados setting up, arbok using coil, luxray being bad ass etc...)

Pair that with AV and you got yourself the definition of a bulky attacker. Any of those get PuP or Flame Charge? Or both? I'm using Arbok with AV for the D-Tail spam, but Hitmontop might be nice for Rapid Spin.

 

[Loudo]

I haven't played this metagame yet, but I love the concept. Great idea!

Clefable seems a much better Unaware user than Quagsire by the way. Not having a very exploitable 4x weakness is pretty important for a wall.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

Mmf, very interesting concept. So even useless Pokémon like Dunsparce and Farfetch'd are gonna get love now! :D But some Pokémon will still probably not get much love. Delibird and other 4x SR weak Pokémon still need plenty of support, but they might be able to make this work if everything has the exact same BST.

 

[CactusCacti]

Few good ones that I think -might- have potential:
Crawdaunt. Gets adaptability for two pretty good offensive types, access to dragon dance, with base total set to 100 on each stat, this thing can actually be able to bulk and speed something for change even though its power gets bit reduced from its base 120 attack.
Spiritomb Pretty much directly buffed with the added HP, speed and power and being one of those things that can actually abuse its infiltrator, I could imagine this thing getting pretty annoying.
Eelektross Giant move pool. Oh and no weakness. Oh and now its faster and bulkier than before. This thing has potential to be really un predictable.

Surprising when viewed from another view point:

Weavile It learns nasty plot, it has decent enough special move pool to abuse it with a good dual stab of Ice and Dark.
Gorgeist Another normally physical that now can use special, being unique niche as a grass type learning fire special moves. Lacks Giga drain unfortunantly.
Golurk No guard focus blast, earth power + shadow ball for stab, thunderbolt, icebeam.. Seems like a nice revenge killer if you cannot afford to miss.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Great defensive walls/Supporters:

Hide

Purpose: Walls a variety of threats, both physical and special.

Stall (Slowking) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 120 SDef / 132 Def
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Tail
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Purpose: Walls a variety of threats, both physical and special.

Stall (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 HP / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Defog

Purpose: Really great at walling many Pokemon stall teams often have trouble against (Vivillion, Talonflame)

Stall (Arceus-Rock) @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Judgment
- Recover
- Earth Power

Purpose: Anti-Chatot/Exploud itself

Stall (Exploud) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam

Purpose: Walls almost everything in the meta.

Stall (Amoonguss) @ Shed Shell/Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Spore
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Gastro Acid

Purpose: Great for walling a vast amount of boosting physical attackers.

Stall (Clefable) @ Shed Shell/Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Toxic/Moonblast
- Heal Bell/Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Purpose: Fantastic for walling a vast amount of physical attackers.

Stall (Furfrou) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 4 Spd / 252 SDef / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Toxic/Thunder Wave
- Protect/Refresh/Thunder Wave
- Roar
- Return/U-Turn

Purpose: Walls and cripples a vast amount of physical attackers, it also is the best Mega Kangaskhan Counter.

Stall (Sableye) @ Leftovers/Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Spd / 252 Def / 252 HP
Careful/Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Knock Off

These are just some of my favorites, there are so many more great defensive sets out there!

 

[AWailOfATail]

Adrian Marin Yea, if your team is made of six of those, I'd say you love stall.
And we have decided to community ban Mega-Kang, Mega-Gengar, and Sableye. After a few tests, they were just proven too unhealthy for the meta. Nothing official yet, but they just made the game not fun.
And a threat list has been put together here. Feel free to add to it if a set works well for you.

 

[perplexingpool]

Some replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-139

Amoonguss is gay Stall is very viable in this meta.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-136

Because everything is pretty bulky, Weakness Policy is quite viable, as your pokemon are unlikely to be OHKO'd even by super effective hits.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-132

Hyper Offense is pretty viable too.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-127

It was basically unanimously decided that Sableye was far too good. Sableye is amazing normally, but now that it's actually bulky too it's just too good.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-123

Mega Gengar is pretty broke too, completely dismantling my defensive core in this game with Perish Song.

I am Mamp on PS by the way.

EDIT: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-148

Assist V-create far too strong lol

 

[Pikachuun]

Adrian Marin Yea, if your team is made of six of those, I'd say you love stall.

His team is actually made of the seven listed that are currently legal, as well as a few more. I'd say he really loves stall :P

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Having watched all those replays, I'm really tempted to run physically based LO Abomasnow.
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 424-502 (104.9 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 424-502 (104.9 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 473-562 (117 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It stomps on Regenerator cores and can effectively deal with Arceus forms that are weak to it. I'd run it with Magnezone which can deal with bulky Fairy-types as well as Steel-types. A user of Rapid Spin / Defog would also be pretty handy.

 

[Hollymon]

Chatot
Item: Choice Scarf/Specs/Assualt Vest
Ability: Tangled Feet (they are all pretty rubbishy tbh)
-Chatter
-Boomburst
-U-turn
-Heatwave

Basically, a special wall if you use Assualt Vest or a hard hitter or speedy pokemon with access to a STAB damaging confusion move and STAB on one of the most powerful moves in the game, Boomburst. U-turn provides switching out with damage if the opponent is not to your liking and Heatwave provides great coverage. Choice Scarf is for obvious reasons although Choice specs would probably work for extra power and Assualt vest to make Chatot specially bulky.

Tell me if it is good to needs improvement

 

[AWailOfATail]

Chatot
Item: Choice Scarf/Specs/Assualt Vest
Ability: Tangled Feet (they are all pretty rubbishy tbh)
-Chatter
-Boomburst
-U-turn
-Heatwave

Basically, a special wall if you use Assualt Vest or a hard hitter or speedy pokemon with access to a STAB damaging confusion move and STAB on one of the most powerful moves in the game, Boomburst. U-turn provides switching out with damage if the opponent is not to your liking and Heatwave provides great coverage. Choice Scarf is for obvious reasons although Choice specs would probably work for extra power and Assualt vest to make Chatot specially bulky.

Tell me if it is good to needs improvement

I think we discussed this on fusx, and Heat Wave and Boomburst are incompatible. Chatot is actually pretty good though.

 

[Kit Kasai]

Has anyone mentioned sableye yet? Cause I think that is one of the most broken walls in this meta. It can avoid being ohko'd by linoone and ko it with foul play, and it has plenty of support options like taunt, recover, WoW, etc.

 

[EJ190]

Has anyone mentioned sableye yet? Cause I think that is one of the most broken walls in this meta. It can avoid being ohko'd by linoone and ko it with foul play, and it has plenty of support options like taunt, recover, WoW, etc.

Think sableye got the banhammer yesterday. I knew it would be broken in this meta.:p

 

[perplexingpool]

Has anyone mentioned sableye yet? Cause I think that is one of the most broken walls in this meta. It can avoid being ohko'd by linoone and ko it with foul play, and it has plenty of support options like taunt, recover, WoW, etc.

Yeah, Sableye got a ban. It isn't official yet, but everyone on the server has agreed not to use it. Here's a replay to show you how borked it is:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-averagemons-127