>Awesome Team< Located in this thread ;)

[Chileno4Live]

~hey~

This is my new team, and i've battled quite a few times with it. This team does really good, but i still feel that it isn't the best team, it is an awesome team though. I hope you guys could help me improve this team to it's maximum. I also have to give Legacy_Raider credit for this team as he helped me making this team =D.

The Team:

Changes in BOLD!

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/240 Atk/16 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock
---
Metagross is an awesome lead for setting up the rocks. 90% of the time he lays up Stealth Rock, which only Taunt can help him do not. Lum Berry is obvious, removes status like Sleep to letting it set up. It also can be a good status absorber aswell in mid-game, and a switch in into Breloom if it killed another pokemon from me. So he'll Spore, Lum Berry prevents and i go fo the kill. Scarf Jirachi also doesn't want to scarf this, since explosion will only be easier to pull off. This is in my opinion 1 of the best suicide leads there is.

Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]
---
This guy is a beast, it can 1HKO Scizor if Stealth Rock up with Thunderbolt, and it can easily 2HKO alot other pokemon, also Zapdos and the likes. HP Grass is for the Ground Types and Ttar, which can easily Switch in into Jolteon. Shadow Ball is there got Gengar and so, and it does a good amount to Celebi's aswell, i chose this over Signal Beam because i got Celebi covered by alot of members in my team already. Shadow Ball is also abit stronger in Base Power. Now here comes to suprise, Baton Pass. At first, you may think, WTF. But Baton Pass is really handy to Scout opponents counters, and you won't like Thunderbolting a Dugtrio. It's really good, though i can always switch it for something else, but i think Baton Pass is awesome.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 12 HP/244 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Shadow Ball
---
Yes, this Gengar is forgotten, hardly anyone uses it anymore while i noticed on how this metagame is kinda SubGar weak. SubGar is a really annoying pokemon to fight against, and it can be really tough to beat. Substitute also Protects Gengar from being pursuit'd by the likes of Weavile and Tyranitar, if i'm not wrong. Focus Blast is a must on most Gengar sets, especially since Heatran switches in. And i can easily Focus Blast Heatran if im behind a Substitute. Focus Blast is also good for Snorlax and Blissey, though Blissey won't get hurt by it that much. Tyranitar also doesn't like to get hit by Focus Blast. Shadow Ball is just for STAB, and does a good amount of damage to alot of pokemon. HP fire if for Pesky Scizors and Forrtress, whuch both get 1HKO'd. Scizor is also a main switch in and it can't do much if i'm behind a Sub aswell. I've also seen alot of Brelooms nowadays, and this set screws them over. They can't Leech Seed if im behind a Sub and they can't hit with Focus Punch, so their forced to switch. Like i said before, this guy is very dangerous.

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
---
Tyranitar works really good in this team, and he's an awesome late-gamer. Dragon Dance Ttar is really threatening, and i haven't seen much of these anyway. The set is simple, switch in on something that can't harm Ttar like Bronzong or something, (I don't think they'll Gyro Ball assuming most Tars are slow) and set up. From there it can ruin weakened pokes and still take some hits with his awesome Defenses. Earthquake is kinda better for Late Game because i should've killed most TTar counters already, and it's alot stronger than Fire Punch, which is only more handfull for Bronzong and Skarmory, which i should've killed anyway. Stone Edge for STAB. Crunch is also for another powerfull STAB.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/10 Spd/20 SAtk/12 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
---
Vaporeon is a really good Tank/Wall, as it walls alot of pokemons. Heatran and Infernapes are push overs for Vaporeon, aswell as most other Fire Types. Wish support is always nice, and it kinda helps TTar and Heracross, and Jolteon aswell. This is also my bait for Jolteon, as i can't play with Gyarados >.< Surf is nice for a STAB move. Protect is to scout and got the Wish. Not much to say here, though i used the new EV spread Legacy_Raider suggested. I used Ice Beam now since Salamence can be a bitch to my team, so Ice Beam is better. I got Jolteon for Gyarados anyway.

Heracross (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
---
This guy is actually very powerfull, it has alot power packing with him, especially with Life Orb. Swords Dance set is really good. I don't use it that often though, i might switch this to Choice Band or Choice Scarf. Close Combat for a regular, powerfull STAB move, and Megahorn for another STAB and for Celebi. Stone Edge for fliers which walls the other 2 moves. Zapdos is no threat, as this guy outspeeds the bulky version and can easily 2HKO, maybe 1HKO after the rocks. I usually only use Swords Dance if everything is weakened, in the late game.

Well thats my team, i hope you guys like my team. I appreciate any comments and suggestions you can give to me. I also want to give credits to Legacy_Raider aswell again, since he really helped me, he's an awesome dude. Also credits to PokemonElite2000 for the animated sprites and credits to LegendaryPokemons.Net for the pictures of the pokemon. Notice on how this team hasn't any D/P pokes in it :P Please RMT!!

 

[Valantaro]

No replies yet =/ ? I really like the team, it seems solid for the most part. The only things I can see being quite a nuisance are Salamence and Tyranitar (Dragon Dancers). Tyranitar is the bigger problem in my opinion, since it doesn't have to resort to locking itself into a single move in order to kill Vaporeon in two hits. A Jolly Tyranitar basically sweeps your team with a single Dragon Dance, and Jolteon, even with Specs, can't OHKO it, thus isn't a viable check.

A remedy to both problems could be Scarfing that Gengar, and giving it a moveset of HP Ice / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Thunderbolt. Otherwise, great team.

 

[UltimoVenusaur]

Honestly, you need to get rid of BP on Jolteon, since you're not going to be switching in on Dugtrio. Dugtrio most likely will be switching in on you, and it will be switching in when you're already locked into T-bolt. BP is useless on a Choice set. Give it Signal Beam instead. You still can't hit Magnezone, but you can hit everything else not in 00bers with that combo.

Metagross is Taunt bait. A fine lead unless you run into Aerodactyl or Azelf, but sadly for you, they're the most common leads. You can still handle those leads even if you're switching out, but be prepared to deal with residual damage the rest of the match.

Rest of the team looks okay, I suppose.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Hey Chileno

Glad you posted the RMT. I'm really happy that you decided to use the HP Fire Scizor-luring Gengar to set up for your DD Tyranitar - I still think it's a good combo =). The only thing I have to say on your team is that the spread I gave you for Vappy was for when you were using Ice Beam, and so if you decide to use HP Electric then you can move the SpA EVs into SpD. However, I would strongly recommend once again that you use Ice Beam, as otherwise, with Metagross gone, DD Salamence is going to have a field day with this team. Jolteon outspeeds +1 Gyarados anyway, and so serves as a good revenge killer if you need it to.

One thing:

Honestly, you need to get rid of BP on Jolteon, since you're not going to be switching in on Dugtrio. Dugtrio most likely will be switching in on you, and it will be switching in when you're already locked into T-bolt. BP is useless on a Choice set. Give it Signal Beam instead. You still can't hit Magnezone, but you can hit everything else not in 00bers with that combo.

Metagross is Taunt bait. A fine lead unless you run into Aerodactyl or Azelf, but sadly for you, they're the most common leads. You can still handle those leads even if you're switching out, but be prepared to deal with residual damage the rest of the match.

Rest of the team looks okay, I suppose.

Firstly, yes, Jolteon will not be switching into Dugtrio. Not much will be switching into Dugtrio unless it is to revenge kill it (which incidentally this Jolteon can do with HP Grass).

Seeing as Shadow Ball is a 2HKO on Celebi already, you outspeed it, it can't Thunder Wave you, and all it can do to you is hit you with a 40 BP Grass Knot, I don't think Signal Beam is a better choice at all. It hits Tyranitar for a full 8 base power more than Thunderbolt does anyway. Baton Pass on Jolteon serves the same purpose as U-turn on Flygon - since they are choiced pokemon it is great to have an attack that lets you see what their counter is, so you can use the specific attack to get rid of them later in the game. And iirc, Electric + Grass + Ghost gives you coverage on everything but Magnezone as well.

Metagross is a bit of a Taunt bait, but do you think that Aerodactly will waste its time Taunting Metagross when there is a threat that Metagross will 2HKO it with Bullet Punch? I think the player using Aerodactyl would rather get their own SR up. Similarly, many more Azelf leads run Fire Blast or Trick than Taunt (although mine does =p) - and so Chileno you need to be a bit wary of the Fire moves. Oh btw fun fact - Metagross OHKOs Hippowdon with Explosion, while Hippowdon will never do more than 65% to Metagross with Earthquake.

LR.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Tnx guys for replying i appreciate this alot =D

@Valantaro: The Gengar i have is quite the beast already. No1 expects is to make a Sub and it can threaten alot of pokemon with his high Base SPatk. I will consider this Gengar only i can counter Salamence if it's stuck in Outrage with Metagross, and then explode if meta is still alive. Vaporeon won't hold out long, but Protect helps me making Outrage wasting 1 time of 3, and if Salamence is confused, it's alot easier to kill him.

@UltimoVenusaur: I honestly see no use in Signal Beam is Shadow Ball is on Jolteon already. It doesn't give extra coverage despite Dark Pokemon,which aren't all that bulky and Thunderbolt does almost the same Damage to them. Baton Pass let's me scout opponent's counters and it works, since alot of TTars are popping up, they want to Pursuit me but sadly i Baton Pass in the switch. It's a great move, even on a choice set. It also makes people believe Jolteon is a Passer, and not a Choice User somehow :P

@Legacy_Raider: I will definetly use Ice Beam, thats a good idea. It also kills Celebi if it's weakened so yeah ^.^. Fire Moves are actually really good covered by Tar and Vapo. but yeah their a Pain. Good that i have Zapdos covered with Jolteon :)

Again, thnx for replying, but i really want some suggestions for Heracross. Any other suggestions is highly Appreciated aswell ^.^

 

[Vampiric]

I agree that baton pass is really useful in this Jolteon.
I think u should replace fire punch with Earthquake, so u can sweep an entire team when flying steels are gone

 

[Chileno4Live]

I agree that baton pass is really useful in this Jolteon.
I think u should replace fire punch with Earthquake, so u can sweep an entire team when flying steels are gone

Thats actually a good idea considering how bad Fire Punch is doing until now. Thnx for your suggestion Vampiric. Also, any other suggestions for Heracross?

 

[Erazor]

Maybe you should replace life orb with a flame orb on Heracross? It gives you the guts boost , which is more than a life orb boost(but the bug will take 12% burn damage each turn) and makes it a status absorber. You could then remove Swords dance and replace it with Pursuit or Facade.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: Also, do you have a reliable Scizor check? Metagross is gonna die early I guess.

EDIT AGAIN: Sorry, I realised that gengar can switch into superpower/X-scissor.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Thnx for replying Erazor:

I usually switch Jolteon in into a Scizor, as Bullet Punch won't kill Jolteon, and i can OHKO it back with Thunderbolt. Vaporeon can handle Scizor aswell, and do enough damage to Scizor to kill it. If metagross is still alive, i EQ it for the kill aswell. Not much to do against Scizor, but i can outpredict it, i am a player that can predict pretty good ^_^

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

Because you don't use ScarfCross? In this metagame it is very difficult to use, and to be faster than a ScarfTran can be very important. That Gengars it is very predictable, it lifts the I attach physical otherwise you will do really so much work to eliminate a Blissey with Bold nature. For how much does it concern Jolteon, Choice Specs + Baton Pass for me is a big risk, are you sure not to want to change item?

 

[Chileno4Live]

Well Scarf Heracross will outspeed Scarftran if it's Jolly Nature, but i also could try out the raw power of Choice Band. Will-O-Wisp may be a good idea, i'll definetly try it out. It's always nice to have a free switch-in on blissey and Celebi without being afraid of Thunder Wave.

 

[UltimoVenusaur]

Signal Beam is a far superior option on a Choiced set than Baton Pass though, and it's the only special option left to give Jolty that's worth a damn. It serves no purpose since Dugtrio is most likely switching in on T-bolt. The only way it works is if Jolteon and an enemy Dugtrio are switched in on the same turn, which seems like it's too rare to have a moveslot taken by BP.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Altough Signal Beam won't help me at all. I already got everything covered barring Magnezone. Signal Beam covers almost the same as Shadow Ball. Baton Pass at least helps me scout.

 

[Hazard]

I have to say, this is a GREAT team! Finally a decent offensive team! However, no team is perfect =P

My suggestions

-Give hera a scarf to revenge kill stuff.
-Since you want to keep this team offensive, maybe add mangezone over Jolteon for Scizor and other steel coverage

Mangezone @ Choice Scarf
Modest
252spe,252spA,6HP

-Signal beam
-HP Fire
-Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon

you should try this it works really well. Otherwise Great team

 

[Darkmalice]

Main problem is that you need both Ice Beam and HP Electric on Vaporeon, for Salamance and Gyarados respectively. The best way you can get around this, without removing Surf and a reliable recovery move, is to replace Vaporeon with Slowbro. He only needs one movesot for recovery (Slack Off) and has better defence for those two pokes. I don't recommend Suicune for this, as it has to resort to Rest, which means it will struggle to consistenly wall them. If you still want Wish support, you can have it in place of Baton Pass on Jolteon (I understand why its on the team, but it is essentially a U-turn with 0 base power, and is vulnerable to Intimidate). Wish on Jolteon will require prediction; you would have to use it on a poke that will swap out of Jolteon like Gyarados.

I fail to see why Gengar has 244 Speed EVs. They should be maxed to tie with other base 110s. An extra 8 EVs in HP won't make any difference. In fact, those EVs means your Health is divisible by 4, and with Leftovers recovery included, you can only make 4 Substitutes, as opposed to the 5 that you can make with 4 EVs in HP. Only have your HP divisble by 4 with Substitute if you plan to use a pinch berry.

Heracross should be Jolly. This is needed in order to outspeed many common threats like Adamant Lucario and Timid Heatran (which is quite popular now).

 

[Flashstorm1]

I'm quite surprised this hasn't been mentioned already, but I've noticed that your team is extremely weak to Scizor and Tyranitar, who are both extremely common and must be handled appropriately.

The main problem I see with Scizor is that it can easily set up on most of your team and proceed to sweep without breaking a sweat. I understand that you are depending on Gengar to take out Scizor with Hidden Power Fire, but I think that is a rather poor option when Scizor can also set up when Tyranitar is out and OHKO Gengar with Bullet Punch. Thankfully enough, few Scizor carry X-Scissor nowadays, so Vaporeon might be able to stall it out, but I wouldn't depend on using Vaporeon as your only answer to Scizor. Metagross could also work, but from analyzing your team's strategy, Metagross will be fainting too early in the match to serve as an effective "check" to Scizor.

I would also say you are rather weak to Tyranitar for the reasons mentioned above, simply because nothing in your team can safely switch into Tyranitar without running a risk of getting KO'd beforehand. I won't really go into detail here since you have plenty of ways of keeping Tyranitar in check, but I just wanted to point this out if you want to consider this weakness when making changes to your team.

Now, I'd like to suggest a few changes to your team which may end up helping you a bit. I highly recommend replacing Vaporeon for RestSTalk Gyara or BulkyGyara, which I think will benefit your team much more than Vaporeon, since WishPassing usually doesn't work well on an offensive team. Gyarados gives you a very nice check against Lucario, Infernape, and Scizor while still being a prime offensive threat, which highly fits well into this team. Since you will still have problems with Tyranitar, I recommend running Breloom or Machamp in the final slot as they function very similarly to Heracross while being more bulky and overall more helpful than Heracross. Another alternative is to run a bulkier EV spread on Heracross and replace Life Orb for Leftovers, but it is up to you.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Wow i got some awesome suggestions here and i'll definetly try then out, i appreciate all your comments guys ^_^

@Hazard: Jolteon is actually the core of the team. I kinda based the team around him. Now i wouldn't want another Fire Weak, and i think Magnezone kind of screws the team synergy. Also, Thunderbolt should OHKO most Scizors after Stealth Rock, and it can't do much in return. Bullet Punch won't OHKO. Thanks for the suggestion though ^_^

@darknessmalice: I like the idea of Slowbro, only i i don't see it countering Mixape, which damage my team alot. I see the need of HP Electric though. But if i Scarf Heracross, i'll be able to outspeed +1 DD gyarados, so i can still kill it with Stone Edge. Slowbro isn't going to work in an offensive team either. But i like the idea, Slowbro is kinda forgotten sadly. HP fire takes away 1 speed point, so i won't be able to tie with other Gengars, and it's not that i would take the risk anyway. So thats why i took the evs so it stil outspeeds Infernape, and makes it's HP abit more. I never really thought about the Sub recovery. But i'll change them then. Thnx for your suggestions :D

@Flashstorm1: I like your changes, and i can see why you suggest them. Scizors are indeed a pain, and i need to predict alot to kill them off. A counter will kinda help. I personally find RestTalkGyara abit to frail, as i hate to rely on only Waterfall. I will try out BulkyGyara though. Breloom is a good idea, only it isn't bulkier than Heracross i think. And i personally find Breloom lacking raw power. I'll try a Swords Dance set with Breloom, and with Mach Punch or something it could work. Machamp is a good idea, and i'll definetly give him a shot. Dynamicpunch must be the most annoying move ever made with the confusing rate XD. Thnx for your suggestions they were really good.

Thnx guys, again. I'd like more suggestions so i have something to do on Shoddy, i also want to wish everyone a happy New Year since today is the final day of the year, for me that is. ^.^

 

[Chileno4Live]

24 bump please i need help :(

 

[chenman333]

If you are going to stick with SDHera, I would suggest going Jolly, bringing you to 295 Spd. This lets you speed everything up to neutral base 95 natured pokemon, which is really great. You outspeed stuff from Mamoswine to Adamant Lucario. Adamant is unnecessary when you have 125 bAtk and SD and LO backing that up. You would be surprised as to how quick Heracross can be.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Do you think thats better instead? Because i can also Band or Scarf it, wouldn't that be a better idea? Also the suggestion of Breloom and Machamp, are those a better idea? I'd like a more detailed answer. Thnx for commenting though =)

 

[Bounty]

Wow, unbelievable, I made a very similar team that sets up DDTar as well, it actually has 4 pokemon in common with this team. I actually thought of HP Fire SubGar too, but it didn't fit well on my team; nonetheless, it's a great way to lure in and destroy Scizor.

I'd think it actually would be a good idea to go Jolly on Hera, also you could give it Flame Orb for taking out more of Tar's counters like Hippowdon and Gliscor, since they'd be happy switching in on Hera, expecting a less powerful version, but instead getting OHKOed by CC/Megahorn and Facade respectively. Sure, it would decrease Hera's staying time, but its purpose should be taking out Tar's counters anyway. It's your call I guess.

 

[Druggedfox]

These comments are so controversial...

Okay, first... for everyone who says baton pass is useless on Jolteon, it's called scouting. You bluff a revege kill against something you know they want to keep alive, and baton pass out to scout for their jolteon counter(s) which makes it easier to sweep. Chileno, definitely keep baton pass.

On Ttar, I'd recommend changing leftovers. Either a resist berry, or boosting item would do you more good seeing as you put EQ on him with the idea of using him as a late game sweeper. Leftovers won't do you much late game tbh. Babiri berry does great, preventing a late game sweep from being ended by a bullet punching scizor. Also, flashstorm mentioned that slight scizor problem you had; I haven't run calcs, but I would if I were you to make sure stone edge can ohko after one DD and SR. That way, you get one DD while they switch in scizor, babiri berry saves you from bullet punch, and you ohko them. If you'd rather not use a resist berry, and don' want the damage from LO (which is also a fine item) you could go with something like blackglasses, or a type boosting item. I'd recommend the babiri first,LO second, and the type boosting order 3rd (so the order I mentioned them).

If LO CC can't 2hko skarmory, hippowdon, and the physical walls of the like with SR damage, then I'd recommend changing it. between scarf and band, from personal experience i'd say band is better seeing as pretty much the entire metagame gets 2hko barring the Nidos and gliscor (all three of which aren't common anyway) Scarf, on the other hand might be easily walled, and it's not worth the revenge killing ability. It would be if we were in a metagame filled with offensive teams, but honestly in the current metagame you need to be able to take down teams filled with tanks and walls, and scarfed hera just can't do that. Alternatively, you could go with MoP cross which I've been using to great success in the current metagame. With Swarm boost, and one SD, a STAB megahorn coming from heracross can ohko non bulky variants of salamence, gyarados, AND zapdos even when factoring in the intimidate (assuming you have SR up) This way, you can run Sub/SD/CC/Megahorn @ salac berry. It's a real beast in the current metagame.

Nice choice of ice beam on vaporeon, your team can take gyarados much better (especially considering adamant DD gyarados doesn't outspeed jolteon after one DD).

Definitely go max speed on gengar, you don't want other gengars beating you, and you wanna be careful against tyranitar who gives you a problem. Max speed timid gengar CAN outspeed adamant ttar after one DD, so you wanna make sure nothing weird happens because you're not running enough speed. 8 hp evs won't be doing you much anyway.

Also, on the subject of your tyranitar weakness, you COULD replace heracross with machamp. That would definitely help solve your problem, but I think heracross has been abandoned in the current metagame, yet it has the potential to beat a lot of teams. Alernatively, you could replace vaporeon on the team, with another bulky water. Swampert could serve as a great ttar counter without changing the typing on the team (just that extra electric immunity and rock resist will be helpful) Sadly, doing this would lose you wish support. So it's up to you to decide after testing if tyranitar is becoming too much of a problem, or you can't afford not to have wish support. If your need of wish support is greater than the threat of ttar, that works too (swampert also helps you with scizor problem).

Hope you take these thoughts into consideration, and I hope they help~

 

[Scimjara]

You have shadow ball on both gengar and jolteon try energy ball on gengar instead

 

[Erazor]

Giving up stab for Energy ball is flat-out not a good idea.

 

[Chileno4Live]

I agree on that aswell, Shadow Ball is more needed i think. I also think i am going to do Breloom>Heracross, since it's better i think. I lose some coverage though. Any other suggestions before i edit my topic?