Ubers Celesteela

[OVERVIEW]

* Celesteela is an alternative of Skarmory, being a mixed defensive wall than its brethren.
* Skarmory is a wall and a support Pokemon at the same with high physical defense, having access to Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Whirlwind to support the team, while Celesteela is more of a tank that can cover both physical and special attacks and show its offensive presence with Heavy Slam and Leech Seed. The opponent must take its time wearing down Celesteela while avoiding taking too much damage.
* An amazing Steel/Flying typing provides Celesteela with 10 resistances and two immunities, one of them being the ever important Poison.
* Celesteela has solid overall bulk of 97 / 103 / 101, which compared to Skarmory's 65 / 140 / 70 defenses means that it can tank both types of attacks better than Skarmory can.
* It can show some offensive support with its base 101 Attack and 107 Special Attack stats, which means that it's not completely stopped by Taunt.
* Celesteela can check some of the major threats in the tier, such as Mega Salamence, Arceus, and Primal Groudon without any Fire-type, moves and even Xerneas at times.
* It has access to Heavy Slam, which is usually a 120-Base Power move with no drawbacks thanks to Celesteela's staggering weight.
* It also has access to Leech Seed, Toxic, and Protect, which allows it to slowly wear down the foe while restoring its health.
* Beast Boost allows it to buff its highest stat. This stat is usually Defense, which allows Celesteela to tank hits better.
* Base 61 Speed is really bad on Celesteela, as it usually gets outsped by almost nearly everything.
* As a wall, Celesteela is outclassed by other Pokémon that have an equally great typing and access to recovery moves.
* Unlike Skarmory, Celesteela cannot set up Stealth Rocks or Spikes, doesn't have access to Whirlwind, and can't use Roost, meaning that its only purpose is to wall without sending setup sweepers away while relying only on Leech Seed for recovery.
* Beast Boost's stat boost, while pretty nifty, can sometimes be irrelevant.

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Heavy Slam
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Leech Seed allows Celesteela to recover its HP while dealing damage to the foes that it can't touch with Heavy Slam. It's a must-have at all times to give Celesteela reliable recovery and another means of damaging the foe.
* Heavy Slam is Celesteela's main STAB move, often having an insane 120 Base Power thanks to its incredible weight. It can 2HKO Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, and all-out attacking Xerneas sets, OHKO Tapu Lele without taking too much damage in return, 3HKO Mega Kangaskhan and Landorus-T while blocking their offensive presence, and 2HKO defensive Tyranitar.
* Protect is used to scout out moves that can threaten Celesteela, as well as stalling with Toxic and Leech Seed damage and allowing it to restore its health with Leftovers.
* Toxic is used to wear down the foe faster and force switches when combined with Leech Seed and Protect.

Set Details
========

* 252 HP and 252 Defense EVs maximize Celesteela's physical capabilities, allowing it to wall attacks from physical attackers, such as Excadrill, Landorus-T, Mega Kangaskhan, Arceus-Ground, Arceus, and Tyranitar.
* Impish is used to boost its Physical Defense while sacrificing its non-used Special Attack stat.
* Leftovers is used to have a form of passive recovery other than Leech Seed.

Usage Tips
========

* Celesteela is best sent out to safely block attackers who can't hit it for super effective damage such as Deoxys-A, Excadrill, Tapu Lele, Arceus-Ground, and Tyranitar, forcing them out to set up Leech Seed or just KOing them to gain the boost from Beast Boost.
* It can be sent out against other walls like Lugia, Bronzong, Chansey, and Blissey to set up Leech Seed and sometimes Toxic to wear them down.
* Celesteela can wall out pressure physical attackers such as Excadrill, Landorus-T, Mega-Kangaskhan, Arceus-Ground, and Tyranitar.
* It can go up against Mega Salamence if you can land Toxic, since Heavy Slam deals a lot of damage to it and Mega Salamence can't 2HKO it after Dragon Dance.
* Similarly, it can go up against Arceus if it lands Toxic because a +2 Extreme Speed can't 2HKO Celesteela.
* Celesteela shouldn't be used against setup sweepers like Primal Kyogre and Mega Lucario since it doesn't have access to Whirlwind to phaze them out.
* It should also avoid Pokemon that carries either a Fire- or Electric-type move, such as Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Dialga, Rayquaza, Primal Kyogre, Zekrom, and Reshiram.
* Scout out any moves with Protect to see if Celesteela can stay in, such as against Primal Groudon that lack Fire-type coverage.
* It can take on weakened Xerneas. It can also take care of Xerneas if it isn't running Thunder, since Celesteela can tank boosted Moonblasts.


Team Options
========

* Primal Groudon can threathen Kyogre and Zekrom with Desolate Land, as they would otherwise KO Celesteela with an Electric-type move.
* Arceus-Water can check Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon, both of which can OHKO Celesteela with their Fire-type moves and ignore being poisoned.
* Arceus-Ghost can be used to keep Mega Lucario at bay, since Mega Lucario's Close Combat can 2HKO Celesteela.
* Giratina-O and Zygarde-C are useful to check Primal Groudon with their typing, while Palkia can check Kyogre with its typing.
* Pokemon such as Chansey, Blissey, and Clefable can tank special attacks from Pokemon such as Dialga, Xerneas, and Mega Gengar while healing any burn or paralysis Celesteela.
* Celesteela also appreciates Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rocks, so Tyranitar and Primal Groudon are good partners for it.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Celesteela can also run a specially defensive set; however, due to the massive power of Pokemon in this tier and a lack of to phazing and recovery moves, Celesteela will get worn down fast and generally won't be able to wall efficiently.
* If you are feeling real lucky, you can use Celesteela as a late-game cleaner thanks to the Special Attack boost Beast Boost gives upon a KO. However, Celesteela is already slow, and base 107 Special Attack isn't really enough to deal major damage in this tier.
* Flamethrower is an option in order to beat other Steel- and Grass-types like Ferrothorn while giving Celesteela another status option other than Toxic.
* Grass Knot can be used to attack Primal Kyogre, which can otherwise OHKO Celesteela with Thunder.
* Earthquake can be used to attack Fire- and Steel-types like Primal Groudon and Dialga.
* Substitute can be used to beat Mega Salamences that carry Refresh.
* Fire Blast can be used as an alternative to Flamethrower if Celesteela requires to KO something that badly.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Mega Sableye**: Thanks to Magic Bounce, Mega Sableye can bounce back both Leech Seed and Toxic, while Celesteela can't do much in return. It can also burn Celesteela, lowering its passive recovery.

**Fire-types**: Ho-Oh is a major threat to Celesteela because it can nullify the damage taken from Toxic and Leech Seed during the battle with Regenerator while OHKOing Celesteela in return. Primal Groudon can also beat Celesteela if it carries Fire Punch, Lava Plume, or Overheat. However, it has trouble with Toxic and can't beat Celesteela otherwise, forcing it to switch.

**Primal Kyogre**: Any Water-type move coming from Primal Kyogre will spell doom for Celesteela, no matter what kind of set it is running. Celesteela's main STAB move, Heavy Slam, doesn't even make a dent on Primal Kyogre, while Primal Kyogre can OHKO it if it's Modest or 2HKO it if it's running Bold. Celesteela can try to damage Primal Kyogre if it runs Grass Knot, but it would rather run Heavy Slam.

**Dialga**: Celesteela's Heavy Slam and Toxic might as well be dead weight against Dialga. Dialga can set up Stealth Rock and OHKO it with either Thunder or Fire Blast without breaking a sweat.

**Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario can 2HKO Celesteela with Close Combat, while Celesteela can only 4HKO it with Heavy Slam. It can set up Swords Dance twice then go for a full sweep if it sets up on Celesteela.

**Ferrothorn**: If Celesteela isn't running Flamethrower, it can't do much against Ferrothorn. Due to its immunity to Leech Seed and Toxic, Ferrothorn can simply come in and set up its hazards while Celesteela can only flail in return.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Calm Mind Primal Kyogre and Mega Lucario can use Celesteela as setup fodder, since Celesteela can't KO them with Heavy Slam and can't phaze them out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cynara

Banned deucer.
Not QC or anything, but i'll post my initial thoughts here as the analysis looks like it's in early stages.

4MSS really doesn't help this thing out at all, Flamethrower doesn't really do much for Celesteela in Ubers (lack of targets etc) and makes you Gengar bait; seems like a waste of a move slot for me, only really hitting Ferrothorn, so I would put it in other options at the bare minimum for that slight application for both physical and specially defensive sets.

I would much rather run Substitute increasing its utility of Leech Seed and Protect movesets; also so you can actually take on Rock, Fairy Arceus and Mega Salamence better and having a status block. Heavy Slam shouldnt be slashed with Iron head; it's too slow to consider flinch chances and heavy slam is out damaging Iron Head almost always. Toxic is another move I would also consider in this slot to pressure switch ins like Pdon / Ho-oh and support Arceus formes like Water.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Protect
- Substitute / Toxic

Furthermore I don't feel the Special Sweeper set should be a main set; 107 Special attack is quite mediocre by Ubers Standards for offensive potential and doesn't have a great ordeal of coverage options to pull it off, gets hard walled by quite a few notable Pokemon (ho-oh Pdon etc), requires too many paths to be opened up for it to even get up a setup opportunity. But this is for QC to decide whether it should be a set or not.

Add Mega Gengar to checks, mainly phys defensive set really gets shut down by it, since taunt / wisp / hex is really common on Gengar rn. Remove Mega Diancie from Team options since it isn't even legal in Ubers as far as we know, due to lack of mega stone attainability
 
Last edited:

shrang

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Lots of problems with this thing:
- You need to distinguish why you'd use this over Skarmory. No, increased offenses is not a legitimate reason if you can't justify what you're using those offenses for. The only thing I can establish at the moment which Celesteela's increased offenses would help is vs Mega Salamence where you can force it too constantly Roost. Pretty much everything else Skarm can do, and this is not going into the other better support options that Skarm has - ie one of Spikes or Defog, Taunt, Whirlwind and reliable recovery. Flamethrower/Fire Blast killing Steels isn't that big of an issue either since Skarmory walled the shit out of most steels and set up Spikes all over their face anyway, or rendered their own hazards useless with Defog.
- Don't even bother with an offensive set - your premise is that with Beast Boosts, Celesteela would be strong enough to sweep, but where are you getting those boosts from? You need to kill things in order to Beast Boost, and what things are you killing with Celesteela that's not via stalling?

You really need to fix the rest of the analysis because you clearly don't know what you're talking about half the time here, esp in Team Options:
  • Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Water, Mega Diancie are great to check Ho-oh.
- Mega Diancie isn't even released

  • The Lati Twins and Giratina Origin are useful to check Kyogre and Primal Groudon.
- I'm assuming you haven't heard that Lati@s is virtually useless in Ubers now as Soul Dew has been nerfed? Latias now takes like 85% from a Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, not a good check ever

  • Flamethrower is used to attack a majority of Pokemon such as Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Shaymin-S, Mega Lucario, Pheromosa, Kartana, Genesect and Aegislash.
- You call that a majority? What about actually legitimate Ubers? Come on, I'm sure you can think about what those actually are.
 
After much advice on the Discord channel, I revamped the entire QC with details on why you should use it over Skarmory, set details, checks and counters, usage tips and moved the other 2 sets to "Other Options."
 

Fireburn

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I think the Overview can focus a bit less on Skarmory comparisons (Skarm has hazards but Steela has better overall bulk and Leech Seed) and more on things Celesteela can check (EKiller, Arc-Groudon, Mence, Fire less PDon, etc). It's still important information but half the overview is comparing it to Skarm and you could make it a lot more concise.

Usage Tips: Celesteela can be used against Salamence since it can't outheal Heavy Slam + Leech Seed with Roost and +1 Double Edge won't 2HKO it. Same with EKiller if you get Toxic onto it. Aegislash is not a physical attacker in Ubers. I don't think Xurkitree is worth mentioning. Mention scouting for Fire moves on PDon before attempting to take it on. Celesteela can also take down a weakened Xern with Heavy Slam if it lacks Thunder + can sponge choiced Moonblasts so mention that too.

I don't think Deoxys-S is worth mentioning on Team Options, you would not use this mon on HO.

I don't think Giga Drain and Ingrain are worth mentioning in OO. You could mention Grass Knot though, it chunks Groundceus for a decent amount and can chip Rest Kyogre switchins.

Do these and I will stamperino.
 
big improvements over the course of editing - keep the things qc has mentioned in mind for future work

QC 2/3
 

Fireburn

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Unless Fire Blast gives any specific calcs over Flamethrower I would just leave it out of OO.

Otherwise this is a solid improvement, gj

QC 3/3
 

dhelmise

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GP 1/1

[OVERVIEW]
  • Celesteela is an alternative of Skarmory, having different playstyles of a wall. (is this really necessary? If it is, maybe reword it to "Celesteela is a more mixed defensive wall" or something, but I really don't see the need for this sentence)
  • Skarmory is a wall and a support Pokemon at the same with high physical defense, having access to Stealth Rocks Rock, Spikes, (AC) and Whirlwind to support the team, while Celesteela is more of a tank that can cover both physical and special attacks and show its offensive presence with Heavy Slam and Leech Seed. The opponent must take its time wearing down Celesteela while avoiding taking too much damage.
  • An amazing Steel / Flying typing (Steel/Flying), having provides Celesteela with 10 resistances and 2 two immunities, (AC) ( one of them being the ever important Poison. (AP) )
  • Celesteela has solid overall bulk of 97/103/101 97 / 103 / 101, which compared to Skarmory's 65/140/70 65 / 140 / 70 defenses, (RC) which means that it can tank both types of attacks better than Skarmory can.
  • It can show some offensive support with its base 101 Attack and 107 Special Attack stats, which means that 101/107 attacks, so it's not completely stopped by Taunt.
  • Celesteela can check some of the major threats in the tier, such as Mega Salamence, Arceus-Normal Arceus, and Primal Groudon without any fire Fire-type moves and even Xerneas at times.
  • It has access to Heavy Slam, which is usually a 120 BP 120-Base Power move with no drawbacks, (RC) thanks to Celesteela's staggering weight.
  • It also has access to Leech Seed, Toxic, (AC) and Protect, which allows it to slowly wear down the opponent, (RC) foe while restoring its health.
  • Beast Boost allows it to buff its highest stat. This stat is usually Defense, which allows Celesteela to tank hits better.
  • Base 61 Speed is really bad on Celesteela, as it usually getting gets outsped by almost nearly everything.
  • As a wall, Celesteela is outclassed by other Pokémon who has Pokemon that have an equally great typing and access to recovery moves.
  • Unlike Skarmory, it Celesteela cannot set up Stealth Rocks or Spikes, doesn't have access to Whirlwind, (AC) and can't use Roost, meaning that its only purpose is to wall without sending set-up setup sweepers away while relying only on Leech Seed for recovery.
  • Beast Boost's stat boost, while pretty nifty, can sometimes be irrelevant.

[SET]
name: Skarmory 2: Steel Boogaloo (Physically Defensive)
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Heavy Slam
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
ability: Beast Boost
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Leech Seed allows Celesteela to recover its HP while dealing damage to the opponents who Celesteela foes that it can't touch with Heavy Slam. It's a must-have at all times to give Celesteela reliable recovery and another means of damaging the opponent foe.
  • Heavy Slam is Celesteela's main STAB move, often having an insane power of 120 BP 120 Base Power thanks to its incredible weight. It can 2HKO Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, (AC) and or All Out Offense all-out attacking Xerneas sets, can OHKO Tapu Lele without taking too much damage in return, able to 3HKO Mega Kangaskhan and Landorus-Therian Landorus-T while blocking their offensive presence, (AC) and can 2HKO Defensive defensive Tyranitar.
  • Protect is used to scout out moves that can threaten Celesteela, (AC) as well as stalling with Toxic and Leech Seed damage and allowing it to restore its health with Leftovers.
  • Toxic is used to wear down the opponent foe faster and force out switches when combined with Leech Seed and Protect.

Set Details
========

  • 252 HP and 252 Def Defense EVs maximizes its maximize Celesteela's physical capabilities, allowing it to wall attacks from physical attackers, such as Excadrill, Landorus-Therian Landorus-T, Mega-Kangaskhan Mega Kangaskhan, Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Normal Arceus, (AC) and Tyranitar.
  • Impish is used to boost up its Physical Defense while sacrificing its non-used Special Attack stat.
  • Leftovers is used to have a form of passive recovery other than Leech Seed.

Usage Tips
========

  • Celesteela is best sent out to safely block attackers who can't hit it for super effective damage such as Deoxys-Attack Deoxys-A, Excadrill, Tapu Lele, Arceus-Ground, (AC) and Tyranitar, forcing them out to set up Leech Seed or just killing KOing them to gain the boost from Beast Boost.
  • It can be sent out against other walls like Lugia, Bronzong, Chansey, (AC) and Blissey to set up Leech Seed and sometimes Toxic (excluding Ferotthorn or Bronzong) to wear them down.
  • Celesteela can wall out and harass (please rephrase this) physical attackers such as Excadrill, Landorus-Therian Landorus-T, Mega-Kangaskhan, Arceus-Ground, (AC) and Tyranitar.
  • It can go up against Mega Salamence if you can land Toxic, since Heavy Slam deals alot a lot of damage to it and Mega Salamence can't 2HKO it after Dragon Dance.
  • Simmilarly Similarly, (AC) it can go up against Arceus-Normal Arceus if it lands Toxic, (RC) because a +2 Extremespeed Extreme Speed can't 2HKO Celesteela.
  • Celesteela shouldn't be used against set-up setup sweepers like Primal Kyogre and Mega Lucario since Celesteela it doesn't have access to Whirlwind to phaze them out.
  • It should also avoid anything any Pokemon that carries either a Fire- (AH) or an Electric-type Move move, those being such as Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Dialga, Rayquaza, Primal Kyogre, Zekrom, and Reshiram, (RP) etc.
  • Scout out any moves with Protect to see if Celesteela can stay in, such as against Primal Groudon not carrying any fire type moves that lack Fire-type coverage.
  • It can take on weakened Xerneas if it is damaged beforehand. It can also take care of it Xerneas if Xerneas it isn't running Thunder, since Celesteela can tank boosted Moonblasts.


Team Options
========

  • Primal Groudon and Landorus-T can threathen Kyogre and Zekrom with Desolate Land combined with their STAB moves (might want to rephrase this, Landorus-T doesn't have Desolate Land and is not listed as a threatening pokemon on here), which as they would otherwise kill KO Celesteela with an Electric Type Electric-type move.
  • Arceus-Water can check Ho-oh Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon, both of which can OHKO Celesteela with their Fire Type Fire-type moves and ignore Poison being poisoned.
  • Arceus-Ghost can be used to keep Mega Lucario at bay, since Mega Lucario's Close Combat can 2HKO Celesteela unboosted.
  • Giratina-Origin and Zygarde-Complete Giratina-O and Zygarde-C are useful to check Primal Groudon with their typing, while Palkia can check Kyogre also with its typing.
  • Pokemon such as Chansey, Blissey, (AC) and Clefable can tank special attacks from Pokemon such as Dialga, Xerneas, Mega-Gengar (RC) and Mega Gengar while healing any burn or paralysis on Celesteela suffered.
  • Celesteela also appreciates Pokemon who that can set up Stealth Rocks and Spikes, so Tyranitar and Primal Groudon (..neither of these learn spikes?) are good partners for it.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • Celesteela can also run a specially defensive set; (ASC) however, however due to the massive power of Pokemon in this tier and having no access to a lack of phazing and recovery moves, Celesteela will get worn down fast, (RC) and generally won't be able to wall efficiently.
  • If you are feeling real lucky, you can use Celesteela as a late game late-game cleaner, (RC) thanks to the Special Attack boost Beast Boost gives upon a KO. However, Celesteela is already slow, (AC) and base 107 Special Attack isn't really enough to deal major damage in this tier.
  • Flamethrower is an option in order to beat other Steel-Types and Grass-Types Steel- and Grass-types like Ferrothorn, (RC) while giving you Celesteela another status option other than Toxic.
  • Grass Knot can be used to attack Primal Kyogre, who which can otherwise OHKO it Celesteela with Thunder(remove space).
  • Earthquake can be used to attack Fire-Types Fire- and Steel-types like Primal Groudon and Dialga other Steel-Types like Dialga.
  • Substitute because Californium wouldn't stop shoving it down my throat to beat Refresh Mega Salamence. no no no rephrase now. this is going on-site and stupid jokes like this are not acceptable.
  • Fire Blast can be used as an alternative to Flamethrower if Celesteela it requires to kill something that badly.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Mega Sableye**: Thanks to Magic Bounce, Mega Sableye can bounce back both Leech Seed and Toxic, while Celesteela can't do much in return. It can also burn Celesteela, lowering its passive recovery.

**Fire Types Fire-types**: Ho-oh Ho-Oh is a major threat to Celesteela, (RC) because it can ignore nullify (it still gets affected by Toxic unless a teammate cures it) the damage its taken from Toxic and Leech Seed during the battle with Regenerator, (RC) while OHKO'ing it OHKOing Celesteela in return. Primal Groudon can also beat it Celesteela if it carries Fire Punch, Lava Plume, or Overheat. However, it has trouble with Toxic and it can't beat Celesteela otherwise, forcing an switch-out it to switch.

**Primal Kyogre**: Any Water-type move coming from Primal Kyogre will spell doom for Celesteela, no matter what kind of set it is running. Celesteela's main STAB move, Heavy Slam, doesn't even make a dent on them Primal Kyogre, while Primal Kyogre can OHKO it if it's Modest or 2HKO it if it's running Bold. It Celesteela can try to damage Primal Kyogre if it runs Grass Knot, but it would rather run Heavy Slam.

**Dialga**: Celesteela's Heavy Slam and Toxic might as well be dead weight against Dialga. Dialga can set up Stealth Rocks Rock and OHKO it with Thunder/Fire Blast either Thunder or Fire Blast without breaking a sweat.

**Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario can 2HKO Celesteela with Close Combat, while Celesteela can only 4HKO it with Heavy Slam. It can set up Swords Dance twice then go for a full sweep if it sets up on left with Celesteela alone.

**Ferrothorn**: If Celesteela isn't running Flamethrower, it can't do much against Ferrothorn. Due to its immunity to Leech Seed and Toxic, Ferrothorn can simply come in and set up its hazards while Celesteela can only flail in return.

**Set-up Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers like Calm Mind Primal Kyogre and Mega Lucario can use Celesteela as setup fodder, since Celesteela can't kill KO them with Heavy Slam and can't phaze them out.
 

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