Serious Charging minors in child pornography cases.

[mattj]

Hi. I'm Chris Hansen.

So I have a 3Ds. I and my daughter use it nearly all day every day. I keep it in my pocket at work so I can rack up playcoins by walking, and when I get home my daughter and I share it to play Mario Kart 7, Pokemon, Kid Icarus, Super Mario 3D Land, watch the newest Nintendo Video, browse the eshop and watch videos for new games, and even just to reply to Facebook posts. It has already been the best console (and yes it is a console) purchase I've ever made.

One of the apps we love the most is Colors! 3D. I know you hear a lot in the gaming news about how the 3D isn't important to the 3DS, but I, for one, disagree. It's the one of the few things the 3DS can do that the Vita and ipad can't, and I love it! We play all of our games with the 3D on. And that's why we love Colors! 3D. It's chock full of new, interesting, often never-before-seen, often well drawn, 3D paintings. I even love it when people take a common picture from googleimages, and 3D-ify it in clever ways.

But there's a problem with Colors 3D. And honestly it's a problem with all online, public art galleries. And really it's just a problem with the internet itself.

There are a lot of perverts out there. And these perverts have figured out simple, clever ways to use otherwise innocuous software to achieve their goals. Colors! 3D is meant for posting art. But many perverts have realized that it works as a chat room, as well as a way to post and ask for 3DS friend codes, so they can swap nude photos using the Swapnote application. And then, sometimes it also works for asking minors for their personal information, such as where they live, so they can "meet up" and "hang out".

I'm no artist, but I do enjoy drawing occasionally. Initially, I drew that first picture up there as a joke. "Chris Hansen, from 'To Catch a Predator' catches a bunch of pedos on Colors! 3D LOLOLOLOLOLOL". But before I was even done with it, I realized that maybe something more could be done about the problem of child predators on the Colors! 3D app. So as soon as I was done I shot a quick message to Colors! 3D on their facebook page. If you can read it on Facebook, you can find it here:

So what is Colors... | Facebook

I'm very glad to hear that the sooncoming update to Colors! 3D should help with this problem. It'll give the bulk of their userbase (those of us who use the 3DS version) a report button, and there will be some backend stuff that will reduce the number of fake accounts and allow them to ban people more easily. All of that is good news.

But it kind of concerned me that Colors, themselves would say:

That being said, every time we've done looked through our logs to see what users like that have been doing from their device in the gallery, there has always been pretty strong indications that it is posted by kids, rather than predators.

Another Colors user said:

to me the paintings you mention generally look like they were done by 10 yr olds themselves..
...
I do think you are misinterpreting some of these as being from predators, while they are just from frustrated teens hitting puberty (like the gay/lesbo posts). In fact, I have used Colors very extensively, looking over literaly hundreds of galleries, and while I have seen MANY FC code posts, BF/GF posts, etc, they always clearly came from kids, looking at their other activities.

And that's where the point of this thread comes from:

Should the fact that a sexually explicit, nude photo of a minor comes from a minor and is sent to a minor, have any bearing on whether said photo is child pornography? Should it have any bearing on whether or not the minor sending the photo, or receiving the photo, should be prosecuted? Should it be illegal for a 17 year old boy to ask, and receive, and store, a nude photo of his 15 year old girlfriend? What about a 16 year old boy? What about a 12 year old boy? What about a 10 year old boy?

Anyone can feel free to correct me, but as far as I could find, State and Federal law seems to be pretty clear. If it's a picture of a minor, nude, in a sexually explicit manner, it is child pornography. If the person choosing to send the picture is a minor, they're still child pornographers. If the person receiving, and storing, and looking at the picture is a minor, they're still child pornographers. No nude photos of kids. None. Never. Under no circumstances. There have been multiple instances of minors successfully being prosecuted for creating and receiving child pornography.

Honestly, I've got to say I agree with them. Child pornography is unacceptable under any circumstances. No exceptions. Your kid sent a nude photo of themselves to their boyfriend? You probably need to have a serious talk with them. "Oh, they're just kids LOL" doesn't cut it. I don't buy the idea that the prevalence of teen sexting has made the idea that children sending nude pictures of themselves is normal, or harmless, and shouldn't be criminalized. "Kids are doing it so it's okay" doesn't work for shoplifting, drinking, or many other illegal activities that minors do.

And honestly, I'm very, very bothered that Colors! 3D would take the position that its in any way less of a problem because it involves two minors (which they cannot prove and have been verifiably wrong about on several occasions).

But that's just me. What are your thoughts? Should exceptions be made? Should our child pornography laws be updated? Is this just harmless "randy teens being randy teens"?

 

[Minwu]

I think it still can be an issue when it's between two minors but shouldn't be a criminal one?? I mean something needs to happen but.. I wouldn't jail them (like you should an adult)

 

[faint]

i see nothing wrong with kids of the same age sending nude photos to each other. they should know the risk of it being sent around etc.

Colors! 3D is meant for posting art. But many perverts have realized that it works as a chat room, as well as a way to post and ask for 3DS friend codes, so they can swap nude photos using the Swapnote application. And then, sometimes it also works for asking minors for their personal information, such as where they live, so they can "meet up" and "hang out".

technically art is defined as an expression of human imagination or skill, so i think regardless of what the message on the game says it is classified as art. this has been happening for years across all different forms of software so i really don't see the big deal that it's also found in a game for kids...even club penguin has stuff like this.

 

[DM]

I have problems with those laws the same way I have problems with statutory rape laws: they will never be 100% black and white. When is someone an adult? When is someone old enough to be considered mature enough to make those sorts of decisions for themselves? In some states it's 18, but some go as low as 15. There is no consensus on adulthood, and that leaves a lot to be desired in law. Wiggle room sucks.

As a 29 year old, though, I can safely say that an 18 year old is still a child. They have no idea who they even are yet, and they can be so easily misled and exploited.

 

[VKCA]

Under no circumstances should a kid receiving/sending a sexually explicit text from another kid receive legal punishment.
What is the problem with two minors sharing nude pictures? obviously sixteen to ten is not good(™), but if they're within the same age range, I think it should be the same as with sex... if they're both consenting, it's their bodies, just because the idea of minors having sex bothers old people shouldn't stop them. Although if I was a thirteen year old girl sexting some dude I would, well I wouldn't be because fuck thirteen year old boys, and I think it's in the best interest of young folks everywhere to hold the same opinion.

i see nothing wrong with kids of the same age sending nude photos to each other. they should know the risk of it being sent around etc.

yeah kids need to be educated on this more than they are though. I agree with you, but on average I over estimate the intelligence of kids.



Obviously in practice (probably not the right combination of words/phrase, but i'm having trouble wording it so I'll just go with that) I agree with you mattj, color's (most likely extremely incorrect) opinion that it's kid to kid instead of adults pretending to be kids is sickening, and shows a super worrying attitude.

As a 29 year old, though, I can safely say that an 18 year old is still a child. They have no idea who they even are yet, and they can be so easily misled and exploited.

I think there's a strong case to be made that early-mid twenty somethings could still be considered to be developmentally unfinished. I know plenty of people in uni who still act like high schoolers, or worse.


oh also super related
[youtube]cnirqeYvRsI[/youtube]

 

[az]

As a 29 year old, though, I can safely say that an 18 year old is still a child. They have no idea who they even are yet, and they can be so easily misled and exploited.

how is this safe to say at all?

i have met people 18 or younger that are more mature, well-grounded, responsible human beings than some people i have met in excess of twenty, even thirty

 

[az]

(not to mention what a patronising post to make, adam!!)

 

[VKCA]

which is exactly the point he's making in the first part of 'is post isn't it? people never ever never whatsoever mature at the same rate.

(well okay given the massive number of maturing people yes some will mature at the same rate just by coincidence but in no predictable fashion and with no consistency)

 

[az]

no, it is ironically enough in complete frustration with the first part of his post

which makes it a little mind-boggling for me, to make a post with that first line and then that last line

unless it is intended to be satire but im p sure not

 

[Myzozoa]

I voted 'under certain circumstances', I think that sexting is the stupidest thing, but if you've been doing it with your boy/girlfriend/w.e you really shouldn't be prosecuted for having the pictures on your phone. If you upload them to a website then you probably should be tried for distributing child pornography even if you are under age.

 

[Coronis]

IMO, there's nothing wrong with two sixteen year olds sending naked pics to each other. They're of the same age, they're above the age of consent (here at least), and they're probably already in a relationship. I mean, I see a problem when you have a 16 year old girl sending pics to say, a 30 year old guy, but, when they're of the same (or similar) ages, even if they are minors, if they choose to do it, whats wrong with that? Sounds exactly like my views on underage sex too.

 

[capefeather]

Age-limited laws are always very sticky, yet age limits are pretty much the only legally consistent measure of maturity, so we live with it. Though, I suppose it's telling that the poll is about whether the act should "absolve them of responsibility". Taking that literally, I would say, absolutely not. At the same time, the purpose of child pornography laws is to prevent sexual exploitation of children by adults. From a non-legal standpoint, teens sexting each other has nothing to do with that. Though like I said, they are still responsible... for expressing themselves in a safe/healthy way.

 

[VKCA]

no, it is ironically enough in complete frustration with the first part of his post

which makes it a little mind-boggling for me, to make a post with that first line and then that last line

when I say the 'the first part of his post' I guess I mostly mean the line 'When is someone an adult?' which lines (sorry for word repetition, I'm getting kinda drunk) up with 'not all eighteen year olds are children but not all are adults either'

They're of the same age, they're above the age of consent (here at least)

as we've established in several other threads: age of consent laws mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
not that i totally don't agree with your entire post but you know, i felt this was kind of important
because fuck age of consent laws

 

[Stathakis]

if two people are legally able to have sex with each other, then they should be able to look at each others' naked pics. by that line of logic, I believe minor-to-minor sexts are an issue but should not be a criminal one with the same legal repercussions of a 16 year old to a 30 year old.

 

[Stratos]

It's sticky because sex isn't something that can go from minor to minor and then accidentally on the internet all over the place and ruin people's lives, but pictures of sex can. While I think sexts between kids is nothing deserving of legal sanctions, you're fooling yourself if you think the odds are very low that someone else will end up with the pictures eventually. They have entire /websites/ (called revenge porn, iirc) where you post naked pictures of exes you're bitter with. For this reason i think child porn laws applying to kids is a good thing because it acts as a deterrent (though i think we need to publicize this fact more because most teens would be shocked to know they can be held responsible for owning their girlfriend's sexts)

 

[MrIndigo]

I voted 'under certain circumstances', I think that sexting is the stupidest thing, but if you've been doing it with your boy/girlfriend/w.e you really shouldn't be prosecuted for having the pictures on your phone. If you upload them to a website then you probably should be tried for distributing child pornography even if you are under age.

Yeah, I can kind of see something like this.

An exception for teen-to-teen pictures, but I don't think it's a good idea to extend that to general online distribution, or teen-to-teen distribution of photos that aren't of the sender (e.g. the post breakup "CHECK OUT MY EX GF'S NUDE PICS WHAT A WHORE").

 

[VKCA]

It's sticky because sex isn't something that can go from minor to minor and then accidentally on the internet all over the place and ruin people's lives, but pictures of sex can. While I think sexts between kids is nothing deserving of legal sanctions, you're fooling yourself if you think the odds are very low that someone else will end up with the pictures eventually. They have entire /websites/ (called revenge porn, iirc) where you post naked pictures of exes you're bitter with. For this reason i think child porn laws applying to kids is a good thing because it acts as a deterrent (though i think we need to publicize this fact more because most teens would be shocked to know they can be held responsible for owning their girlfriend's sexts)

again, distributing pictures of your underage naked girlfriend is very, VERY different from having them on your cellphone, and under current laws (in the us at least) both are illegal.

 

[Stratos]

yes but my point was that if you think all teens are mature enough to have those photos on their phone and not do something stupid with them for whatever reason you have another think coming

edit i just realized i started my last post with "it's sticky because sex," lol

 

[VKCA]

yes but my point was that if you think all teens are mature enough to have those photos on their phone and not do something stupid with them for whatever reason you have another think coming

teens? fuck yo, if you look at those 'fuck my gf' sites none of it is teens, the majority is 20 somethings. I think you shouldn't be sending naked pictures to anybody period, people aren't trust worthy, particularely not guys, as sexist as that sounds.

my point is that kids shouldn't be persecuted for possessing 'child pornography' (given that said child pornography was given willingly), distribution is another thing entirely.

 

[Outlaw]

What's the fucking point of age restrictions on various things and suddenly becoming an adult at 18 if you're going to fucking charge people that are UNDER that limit as adults anyway?

That's seriously fucked up man, and you're fucked up for thinking it. Some batshit crazy logic man.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Truth be told, this seems like a complicated matter. My 2 cents is that kids'll be kids. If a 16 year old is getting nude pics from a 10 year old then that's bad. If a 16 year old is getting nude pics from another 16 year old that doesn't seem as bad. But honestly, this feels different than if a kid were to rob a store or something like that. They're making a stupid mistake but it's not putting anyone in danger. (if it does that's a whole different matter -_-. Remember when I said complicated. Also it's different if a kid does this thing than if an adult does it. If a 16 year old is getting pics from a 10 year old, they're stupid. If an adult is getting pics from a minor, they're idiots. (Believe me there's a different between being stupid and being an idiot.) Once again it's just so very complicated.) Still, this about if a kid is recieving pics from another kid. It really depends on if the age of each participant.

 

[MrIndigo]

What's the fucking point of age restrictions on various things and suddenly becoming an adult at 18 if you're going to fucking charge people that are UNDER that limit as adults anyway?

That's seriously fucked up man, and you're fucked up for thinking it. Some batshit crazy logic man.

Yeah, I truly hate this, irrespective of the crime.

We'll treat you as kids and less cognisant of the outcomes of your actions. Except when we don't treat you like kids because we're angry and want to punish you more.

 

[VKCA]

What's the fucking point of age restrictions on various things and suddenly becoming an adult at 18 if you're going to fucking charge people that are UNDER that limit as adults anyway?

That's seriously fucked up man, and you're fucked up for thinking it. Some batshit crazy logic man.

wait hold on are you talking to me?
because I'm super confused if you're talking to me!!
sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post

 

[Outlaw]

wait hold on are you talking to me?
because I'm super confused if you're talking to me!!
sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post

Nah, just talking to anyone who thinks its a good idea to charge fucking minors with adult crimes.

Either make new laws for minors or abolish age restrictions and stop getting your briches in a twist.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

At the same time, the purpose of child pornography laws is to prevent sexual exploitation of children by adults. From a non-legal standpoint, teens sexting each other has nothing to do with that.

It actually has everything to do with it. The instant the child pornography is created, it has a chance to be exploited by an adult. The person can upload the image or give it to an adult, the device can be stolen, or the device could be hacked. Also, just because two consenting minors can have sex, doesn't make it alright for them to sext.

Now should their age be taken into account? Probably, but since child pornography is such a problem right now, the severity of the crime can be justified. It's terrible to think a kid's mistake could cost them for the rest of their lives, but that's just how the law works is right now.