ginganinja
It's all coming back to me now
Approved by Birkal and jas61292
Most people that hang out in #cap are well aware that I wish to discuss the issue of the checks and counters process of the CAP Process, mostly because I believe that there are a number of things that we could do differently to improve the process.
The current issue I think we have, is that currently the checks and counters process is done so early on in the process, that when we progress to movepool and ability polls, people see what we are countered by, and then tailor their submissions in order to beat the counters of the current CAP. I will not call out anyone, but I remember looking at the list we ended up on for CAP 6 (it was something like Breloom, Heatran, Magnezone, Scarf Jirachi), while we agreed that electric attacks, priority, and fast scarfers that can take Bullet Punch as being reliable checks. The final result however, was a CAP with Volt Absorb (it would actually beat Magnezone and Scarf Jirachi), Drain Punch (to nail Heatran + Mag + Heal off Jirachi residual damage), and it outsped Breloom with priority. Furthermore, certain stat spreads were submitted (and slated), that allowed CAP 6 to beat Skarmory by healing off enough damage from a +6 Drain Punch, so that it could Drum again and thus beat Skarmary if the conditions were right. Much of this happens due to the large number of differenting perspectives of CAP participants, which ultimately leads to the CAP in question beating many of its checks and counters. This flew in the face of the list we had at the start, and everyone knows that it caused considerable frustration.
As I see it, we currently have two options here:
Option #1 is that we simple move the checks and counters thread to a different stage in the process, which would limit people "rigging" abilities for instance, to bypass certain checks and counters. However, this doesn't stop people tailoring movepool submissions since I expect the checks and counters thread would still have to pre-empt this movepool thread. With some clever implementation, this might work.
Option #2 is that the TLT simply vetoes submissions that violate the checks and counters list we decide upon as a community. This places more pressure on the TLT to make these decisions, but overall I believe it is a better option. We already have to convince the Section Leader of each individual process why we selected our states / movepool / abilities, all people would have to do would prove to the Section Leader that the submission does not allow the CAP to beat its checks and counters. The TL would also, ideally, serve as a second quality control member when reviewing the slate for +1 / -1 / veto.
That said, I am sure others have their own opinions, so I invite you all to post opinions and submissions of their own, as well as perceptions of the above two options outlined above.
Most people that hang out in #cap are well aware that I wish to discuss the issue of the checks and counters process of the CAP Process, mostly because I believe that there are a number of things that we could do differently to improve the process.
The current issue I think we have, is that currently the checks and counters process is done so early on in the process, that when we progress to movepool and ability polls, people see what we are countered by, and then tailor their submissions in order to beat the counters of the current CAP. I will not call out anyone, but I remember looking at the list we ended up on for CAP 6 (it was something like Breloom, Heatran, Magnezone, Scarf Jirachi), while we agreed that electric attacks, priority, and fast scarfers that can take Bullet Punch as being reliable checks. The final result however, was a CAP with Volt Absorb (it would actually beat Magnezone and Scarf Jirachi), Drain Punch (to nail Heatran + Mag + Heal off Jirachi residual damage), and it outsped Breloom with priority. Furthermore, certain stat spreads were submitted (and slated), that allowed CAP 6 to beat Skarmory by healing off enough damage from a +6 Drain Punch, so that it could Drum again and thus beat Skarmary if the conditions were right. Much of this happens due to the large number of differenting perspectives of CAP participants, which ultimately leads to the CAP in question beating many of its checks and counters. This flew in the face of the list we had at the start, and everyone knows that it caused considerable frustration.
As I see it, we currently have two options here:
Option #1 is that we simple move the checks and counters thread to a different stage in the process, which would limit people "rigging" abilities for instance, to bypass certain checks and counters. However, this doesn't stop people tailoring movepool submissions since I expect the checks and counters thread would still have to pre-empt this movepool thread. With some clever implementation, this might work.
Option #2 is that the TLT simply vetoes submissions that violate the checks and counters list we decide upon as a community. This places more pressure on the TLT to make these decisions, but overall I believe it is a better option. We already have to convince the Section Leader of each individual process why we selected our states / movepool / abilities, all people would have to do would prove to the Section Leader that the submission does not allow the CAP to beat its checks and counters. The TL would also, ideally, serve as a second quality control member when reviewing the slate for +1 / -1 / veto.
That said, I am sure others have their own opinions, so I invite you all to post opinions and submissions of their own, as well as perceptions of the above two options outlined above.