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Community Create-A-Team: Heracross (OU)
- Thread starter Stagnant
- Start date
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ok about umbreon... two things: youll be hard pressed to find a choiced attack that it resists, and also they can always just switch out before you mean look...
If you want a perfect set up pokemon, Lunar Dance Cressy is awesome. Paralyze something, toss up Reflect and Light Screen, sacrifice Cressy for a free switch in with a full heal. This lets Heracross have two sweeping opportunities and with both screens up, he'll be very hard to stop.
It's not hyper offense, but I think it is more reliable than Umbreon's strategy, though Umbreon's weaknesses are resisted by Heracross.
I wouldn't do either, personally.
It's not hyper offense, but I think it is more reliable than Umbreon's strategy, though Umbreon's weaknesses are resisted by Heracross.
I wouldn't do either, personally.
legendary curt is angry -.-
Guys, I hate to be a real "bearer of bad news" but to be honest, this was kind of doomed from the start. 1.) We are using Heracross from the start and try to build off that which is ok but we will never be able to decide what to put in (as already mentioned, everyone has a different opinion) and right now it is just "please put this in, it can counter this". This way of thinking just isn't right when building a team, you should be building it to have a strategy or put on pressure, not just xcounter/ycounter/zcounter/acounter/bcounter/heracross.
You also forced us to build around heracross, and a successful team really weighs in on its options beforehand. what if heracross is dead weight on the team? From the looks of things we aren't building a strategy just putting on counters. Why not just use SD lucario over heracross when it is all said and done then?
These are just some of the problems, I don't exactly know how we can salvage this thread but we are just taking really big steps in the wrong direction.
Guys, I hate to be a real "bearer of bad news" but to be honest, this was kind of doomed from the start. 1.) We are using Heracross from the start and try to build off that which is ok but we will never be able to decide what to put in (as already mentioned, everyone has a different opinion) and right now it is just "please put this in, it can counter this". This way of thinking just isn't right when building a team, you should be building it to have a strategy or put on pressure, not just xcounter/ycounter/zcounter/acounter/bcounter/heracross.
You also forced us to build around heracross, and a successful team really weighs in on its options beforehand. what if heracross is dead weight on the team? From the looks of things we aren't building a strategy just putting on counters. Why not just use SD lucario over heracross when it is all said and done then?
These are just some of the problems, I don't exactly know how we can salvage this thread but we are just taking really big steps in the wrong direction.
I agree. I gave little direction from the get go however, Lee was kind enough to give this thread a try and I thank him for that. But what I should have done first was to have a discussion over how the processes needed in order to achieve the overall goal. I'm not sure how to sway this thread back into the right direction, tbh. I'll attempt to remain a part of this thread until either this thread is locked or the team is finished.
To salvage, we need to move on. We should start having short lists for roles one the team from all the suggestions and vote on which we want added.
If it ends up being a bunch of counters/lures and Heracross, so be it. It might not be the BEST team, but it will be a team none the less. Look at the CAP process, not every CAP was amazing/the best pokemon, but that isn't the point of CAP and shouldn't be the point here.
Heracross should be paired with a something Ground/Fire resistant. How bout a Salamence?
EDIT- and not pursuit bait
EDIT- and not pursuit bait
It's too late for that... we need to work with what we have now.
Dragonite would be better. As it is bulky, can lay down the T-Wave when it wants, and has Heal Bell, etc. It could be fun to add with Heracross.
Yes, this is a much better option than Salamence. Heracross deeply appreciates paralysis support, and support Dragonite can also be useful for Choice Scarf Heatran and Zapdos trying to revenge kill it.
We need to consider all options.
Well, let's think about what checks Heracross, before we start thinking of random ideas. Choice Scarf Heatran, Gliscor, Rotom-A, and Zapdos are pretty reliable checks. We need to use pokemon that can use their switching in as an opportunity to spread some paralysis. Dragonite can come in on Heatran, Rotom-A, and Zapdos. We could use a bulky water to beat Gliscor, maybe Slowbro(who also happens to beat Gyarados and Salamence). Machamp can act as our lure, having some of the same counters/checks as Rotom-A, and also spread confusion. A Choice Scarf Jirachi could lead off the team, being able to revenge kill Salamence, and Trick its Scarf onto something that doesn't want it, or set up Stealth Rock. Here, I think is a pretty good core: Dragonite, Heracross, Machamp, Slowbro, and Jirachi. Obviously, these could be switched around in order to improve the team, but the general idea is to create opportunities to spread paralysis by using our sweeper(Heracross) to lure in pokemon that Dragonite, Slowbro, and Jirachi can switch into.
I feel Vaporeon over Slowbro would be a better choice, as you we have a wisher, as well as an even more reliable wall.
The ability to spread paralysis, and the option to lure in and kill Scizor(Flamethrower) seems pretty useful to me, but any bulky water would work.
Slowbro learns Flamethrower?
Ok, we are jumping around AGAIN. Lets keep the discussion on a status spreader until we are set in stone on who we want to use. Maybe Gallade, who can lure Gliscor out. I was thinking of the simple status spreader with Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Toxic and Hypnosis?
Ok, we are jumping around AGAIN. Lets keep the discussion on a status spreader until we are set in stone on who we want to use. Maybe Gallade, who can lure Gliscor out. I was thinking of the simple status spreader with Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Toxic and Hypnosis?
Yes, Slowbro learns Flamethrower, he is known as one of the few waters that can learn it.
4 status moves? I hope you mean "or"... Why status something with Gallade when you can kill it with a +2 Ice Punch, or use Machamp?
I think we just need to go right into the playtesting stage. Everyone is suggesting ideas that sound good on paper, but haven't been tested. So as far as we know, the team could already be 6 pokemon that were suggested in this thread already. We won't know until we playtest, since we already have all the main partners that have been recommended.
Yes, I meant or, sorry about that.
Machamp can't spread status nearly as well as Gallade can. Gallade lures in Gliscor so we can switch in something like Starmie, for example, to kill it. And if we are using status Gallade, why would we have Swords Dance on the same set? We would have maybe two status moves, but then we are going to be outclassed by Rotom as a spreader of status. Machamp is pretty sturdy, and causing problems with Dynamicpunch could open up a way to get Heracross in. My only concern would be having to fighters on the team would leave us susceptible to Gengar coming and and wrecking us.
I still think Rotom is our best status spreader choice, and it pretty much walls any Gliscor. Gliscor also won't like taking STAB Shadow Ball. Another thing I feel is a problem would be BulkyGyarados, who can easily set up on our status spreader by Taunting it, then start Dragon Dancing. This makes it critical to carry an Electric attack. Another reason to use Rotom.
Machamp can't spread status nearly as well as Gallade can. Gallade lures in Gliscor so we can switch in something like Starmie, for example, to kill it. And if we are using status Gallade, why would we have Swords Dance on the same set? We would have maybe two status moves, but then we are going to be outclassed by Rotom as a spreader of status. Machamp is pretty sturdy, and causing problems with Dynamicpunch could open up a way to get Heracross in. My only concern would be having to fighters on the team would leave us susceptible to Gengar coming and and wrecking us.
I still think Rotom is our best status spreader choice, and it pretty much walls any Gliscor. Gliscor also won't like taking STAB Shadow Ball. Another thing I feel is a problem would be BulkyGyarados, who can easily set up on our status spreader by Taunting it, then start Dragon Dancing. This makes it critical to carry an Electric attack. Another reason to use Rotom.
Double fighters actually works pretty well. I have been using Machamp and Lucario together and Machamp lures Gliscor, Gyara, Rotom, Zapdos, Salamence very well. He can also take hits from these and really put the hurt on them. Also, Gengar's Shadow Ball doesn't do all that much to Machamp while Payback does over 100,000 dmg to Gar. Hera + Machamp could work well. The good thing about Machamp + Luke is that they don't share any weaknesses, and Hera + Machamp would only share a Psychic and Flying weakness, which aren't the worst weaknesses to have.
Machamp also benefits greatly from Para support, but if you for some reason can't spread para properly, then you're gonna have at least two slow pokes to rely on. This isn't really a problem for Machamp, since he can take hits rather well.
Machamp also benefits greatly from Para support, but if you for some reason can't spread para properly, then you're gonna have at least two slow pokes to rely on. This isn't really a problem for Machamp, since he can take hits rather well.
this is an interesting thread...
paralysis from slowbro seems pretty good, and flamethrower is always a surprise. slack off is also always nice to have.
i would like to possibly throw out togekiss or jirachi (who was already mentioned but for different reasons) for paralysis support, since they both can utilize body slam with serene grace for a high chance to paralyze pokemon immune to thunder wave.
heracross CAN sweep, and i think this thread, if it keeps on a good path, will show people not only how to devise a strategy for their own team-building, but also that underrated threats like heracross can be potent sweepers if they are properly supported.
blasphemy seems to be on the best track on this page with the five other supporting members he likes and some reasoning for their choices. i think play-testing around at least a handful of those + heracross should be done for a few days and see how the team fares.
paralysis from slowbro seems pretty good, and flamethrower is always a surprise. slack off is also always nice to have.
i would like to possibly throw out togekiss or jirachi (who was already mentioned but for different reasons) for paralysis support, since they both can utilize body slam with serene grace for a high chance to paralyze pokemon immune to thunder wave.
heracross CAN sweep, and i think this thread, if it keeps on a good path, will show people not only how to devise a strategy for their own team-building, but also that underrated threats like heracross can be potent sweepers if they are properly supported.
blasphemy seems to be on the best track on this page with the five other supporting members he likes and some reasoning for their choices. i think play-testing around at least a handful of those + heracross should be done for a few days and see how the team fares.
i playtested a little and heres something:
Lucario@Life Orb
max spe/SpA
Timid/Modest Nature
Aura Sphere
Hidden Power [Ice]
Dark Pulse
Vacuum Wave
lures in gliscor like a beast, i used shuca just to see how it worked but it was lacking the raw power, but using HPice on the switchin works well so =/
pretty much specsluc but with life orb instead usually their counter to heracross is the same as that to heracross but yea, probs is this has no sweeping power
the magnezone would be better if lucario came out earlier, but most people keep him to the end which doesnt help hera at all but i used him anyways
things i tried:
body slam/iron head jirachi: NO, adds to the fire/ground weakness
celebi, no, more fire weakness
latias: twave latias is completely inferior to the standard
either way there HAS to be a better answer to heatran
Lucario@Life Orb
max spe/SpA
Timid/Modest Nature
Aura Sphere
Hidden Power [Ice]
Dark Pulse
Vacuum Wave
lures in gliscor like a beast, i used shuca just to see how it worked but it was lacking the raw power, but using HPice on the switchin works well so =/
pretty much specsluc but with life orb instead usually their counter to heracross is the same as that to heracross but yea, probs is this has no sweeping power
the magnezone would be better if lucario came out earlier, but most people keep him to the end which doesnt help hera at all but i used him anyways
things i tried:
body slam/iron head jirachi: NO, adds to the fire/ground weakness
celebi, no, more fire weakness
latias: twave latias is completely inferior to the standard
either way there HAS to be a better answer to heatran
unless said 'zone carries HP ice...
We could combine the idea of a double fighting with a Heatran counter with Hariyama.
Max power SpecsTran with Overheat can't even break 50% on the Special Wall Hariyama who can OHKO back with Close Combat/Revenge/Cross Chop (with Rocks) or 2HKO with Brick Break/Force Palm
He can hit:
Gliscor with Ice Punch for 61.30% - 72.03%
Salamence with Ice Punch for 72.21% - 84.89% (after Intimidate)
Offensive Gyarados with Thunder Punch for 73.11% - 85.80% (after Intimidate)
Defensive Zapdos can be 2HKO'd with Stone Edge and Rocks up but that is not a reliable check.
Defensive Rotom-H can be 2HKO'd with Payback who will barely scratch Hariyama (though Guts might be preferred to absorb the burn, this makes him an inferior switch in though).
Not as destructive as Machamp but he can spread paralysis with Force Palm and bust out the BoltBeam Punches and Payback for some checks to Heracross. He can take a big time beating from the special side too and would work very well with a Wish-passing Latias, though the defense is redundant so perhaps the physical wall would work.
Some food for thought.
Max power SpecsTran with Overheat can't even break 50% on the Special Wall Hariyama who can OHKO back with Close Combat/Revenge/Cross Chop (with Rocks) or 2HKO with Brick Break/Force Palm
He can hit:
Gliscor with Ice Punch for 61.30% - 72.03%
Salamence with Ice Punch for 72.21% - 84.89% (after Intimidate)
Offensive Gyarados with Thunder Punch for 73.11% - 85.80% (after Intimidate)
Defensive Zapdos can be 2HKO'd with Stone Edge and Rocks up but that is not a reliable check.
Defensive Rotom-H can be 2HKO'd with Payback who will barely scratch Hariyama (though Guts might be preferred to absorb the burn, this makes him an inferior switch in though).
Not as destructive as Machamp but he can spread paralysis with Force Palm and bust out the BoltBeam Punches and Payback for some checks to Heracross. He can take a big time beating from the special side too and would work very well with a Wish-passing Latias, though the defense is redundant so perhaps the physical wall would work.
Some food for thought.
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