Crisis Core - Round Five

[Raseri]

*note that a lot of what I wrote was borrowed from the amazing user RayJay*

Introduction​

Hello NU players of the world!

For those of you who have witnessed the debauchery that is "Counter That Pokemon" threads will know that they very quickly become PC++ games. This game is designed to be different, instead of just posting Heatran as a counter every other post we will all be attempting to counter some common(and maybe not so common) cores in the Neverused enviroment.
In an attempt to maintain the activity from that thread while having discussion more pertinent to the metagame, we are going to start a little competition. This competition will see who can consistently demonstrate knowledge of the metagame.

The Goal​

The object of the game is to post the best possible Pokemon that counters the duo posted by myself at the start of every round. By posting 1 or 2 Pokemon that counters the duo, we will obtain knowledge of the metagame and you will gain points. Another aspect of the game is to prevent the other players from getting points, and this is done by proving in this thread that their post does not counter the duo as well as they say it does. Without further ado, let's play

Crisis Core​

The basic concept is that we want to discover ways to break common cores in the metagame without real difficulty. NU is balanced and a lot of cores are becoming very common and people are struggling to break them, our job is to find a way.

Round One:

The Building Blocks of Life

Duosion (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Bug]

+

Gurdurr (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Payback

The rules:
You are to post 2 Pokemon or 1 Pokemon that counter(s) the above core single handedly. Needing SR, Rapid Spin, or Dual Screens support greatly hurts your argument and will likely prevent you from getting points.
Post the complete set(s) of your Pokemon, including EVs, nature, item, and moveset.
Do not include a Pokemon in your post that has already been used this round.
Post reasoning and how you will play your Pokemon against the above core. If you can't prove to us that your Pokemon counter(s) the above, then you will not get points for it.
Feel free to question someone's post with reasoning / calcs if you believe they are incorrect, this could prevent them from getting points.
People will get points at the end of the round based on if I feel their Pokemon really does counter the above core.
Bonus Points may be rewarded by me at the end of each round for things like creativity, best arguer or anything I feel like really.
People with the highest scores may be rewarded in the future.
Counters that rely on low accuracy moves are allowed, but if you have to hit five stone edges in a row it is not a good counter and will not count.



Scoring:
If you post 1 Pokemon that counters the above core, you will get 2 points for that round.
If you post 2 Pokemon that counters the above core, you will get 1 point for that round.
If your post does not actually counter the core as deemed by the community, you will get no points. I will have the final say on this.


Scoreboard:

Scoreboard

CrashinBoomBang - 8 (+2)
Django Reinhart - 7 (+2)
No Luck Involved - 5
FLCL - 5
Molk - 4
Endorfins - 3 (+2)
Zebraiken - 3
Amarillo - 3
Full2Half - 2
Tribute - 2 (+2)
TropiOUs - 1
NatGeo - 1 (+1)
The Reptile - 1
BurtonEarny - 1 (+1)
DTC - -1

Thanks for your time! Good luck competitors! A new round will be posted every 5 days to a week in order to ensure adequate time to formulate a core and tear down the others' cores

 

[Molk]

Rotom-S @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Gurdurr will not win vs Rotom-S at all without Stone edge, while rotom-s can easily air slash back or use volt switch to scout, duosion can be annoying, but with some prediction you can remove its eviolite and lock it into CM/prevent it from setting up CM in the first place.

This core is very solid, and hard to break without using multiple Pokemon, and even those mons can be shaky sometimes as these mons are very hard to OHKO

 

[Straw Hat]

Musharna (M) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.A
Modest Nature (+Sp.A, -Atk)
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Fighting
-Baton Pass

Musharna can 1HKO 252/4 Eviolite Gurdurr with Psychic, or 2HKO the Sp.D set (81.8%~96.8%). It can 2HKO 252/4 Duosion with Shadow Ball after a Calm Mind. If Duosion Calm Minds again, Musharna does 38.3~45.5, which is a 3HKO, while Duosion can only deal 44.0~51.8 back after a Calm Mind with Hidden Power Bug.

 

[canno]

Butterfree (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Switch into Gurdurr. At best, he uses Bulk Up. At worst, he hits you with Payback, doing 34.48% - 40.61%, not even enough to KO after SR. Then you Sleep Powder, set up, and 2HKO it. Duosion is more problematic, since he does 59% - 70.11% to Butterfree with Psyshock. However, we can then just Sleep Powder, set up and kill (or just straight up kill)

EDIT: Payback + Mach Punch at +0 can only KO Butterfree after SR if Payback gets really high damage roll (mach punch does 10.34%-11.88%)
EDIT2: Silverlight doesn't factor in Eviolite? Well shit. I think Butterfree should still be able to 2HKO Soliosis though. And it changes the HP Flying calc. Shit, I might need a new counter. :(
EDIT3: Compound Eyes makes missing Sleep Powder almost a non-issue, and sleep always gets at least 1 turn iirc, so if I really wanted to I'm pretty sure I can just go for the 2hko on both with the appropriate move. Here's a spinner so Duosion doesn't fuck me to much

Wartortle (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Yawn

Rapid Spin is rapid spin. Haze is to remove any boost the two get (although I don't need to Rapid Spin on them) and Yawn helps put stuff to sleep so Butterfree doesn't have to. Scald isn't here because getting a burn can be fatal.

 

[watashi]

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Recover

Quagsire can ignore any boosts that Gurdurr or Duosion accumulate and proceed to set up on them. Both fail to 2HKO Quagsire initially and after a few Curses, they will be unable to do any significant damage. As long as a critical hit doesn't happen, Quagsire can switch in on any move that either Gurdurr or Duosion use and beat them. More defense could be used to counter these Pokemon more thoroughly, but these are the standard EV's and are more useful in other situations.

252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Quagsire: 33.76% - 39.85%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

0 SpAtk Duosion Psyshock vs 252 HP/0 Def Quagsire: 30.46% - 36.04%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

 

[Steamroll]

Braviary @ Choice Band
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Superpower
- U-turn

Just the sheer power of Braviary is enough to plow through both Duosion AND Gurdurr while neither are able to do much back without a boost under their belt, which Braviary pressures the opponent into attacking with Gurdurr in a feeble attempt to try and kill Braviary.

Here are the calcs of that Gurdurr:
Detailed Result:
0 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Braviary: 34.6% - 40.76%
3 hits to KO

So pretty much, Braviary outspeeds and Brave Birds dealing a high chance OHKO blow (97.86% - 115.51%) while Braviary only loses 122 HP minimum (this is on a low roll, likely case is Gurdurr is dead) and Gurdurr answers back with a Drain Punch that will leave Braviary at around 40% health while it Brave Birds again for the kill.

What about Duosion Psyshocking Braviary?
Detailed Result:
0 SpAtk Duosion Psyshock vs 0 HP/0 Def Braviary: 39% - 46.04%
3 hits to KO

yeah that's right. It does nothing, too. All the while Braviary gladly OHKOs cleanly with Brave Bird.
Detailed Result:
252 Atk Choice Band Braviary (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Duosion (+Def) : 100.6% - 118.56%
Guaranteed OHKO

All in all Braviary punches clean through this core and generally doesn't care about recoil, as the combined recoil from both Gurdurr and Duosion leave Braviary at a perky 31% health, more than enough to Brave Bird another mon that tries to come in.

 

[watashi]

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Choice Band Braviary (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Duosion (+Def) : 100.6% - 118.56%
Guaranteed OHKO

I think you forgot to factor in Eviolite in your calculation. Nevertheless, Braviary is still able to break through the core pretty well.

252 Atk Choice Band Braviary (+Atk) Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Duosion (+Def) : 67.37% - 79.34%
2 hits to KO

 

[DTC]

Braviary will die trying to take down the core. It has to deal with switching in, tanking a Mach Punch, Stealth Rock, and Brave Bird recoil. Braviary can't OHKO Duosion and even sometimes fails to OHKO +1 Gurdurr. It doesn't beat the core well.

 

[Steamroll]

Sorry about that apparently Silverlight is a giant pile of shit and doesn't factor in the fact I had Eviolite on Duosion

Proof


EDIT: Since Silverlight is a lying sack of shit I'll post another combo that can work.

Volbeat @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Encore

Samurott @ Life Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SpD)
- Megahorn
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

This is how this core plays out. Volbeat comes in on Duosion's Calm Mind or Gurdurr's Bulk Up. Encores. And then sets up a Tail Glow and a Sub while Gurdurr and Duosion can't do anything. Then by passing to Samurott who will be at +3 you can systematically destroy Gurdurr if you set up on Duosion with Hydro Pump, or you can Megahorn Duosion to death as it comes in. Note: Megahorn 2hkos Duosion but you will be behind a sub, so no matter what a +2 / +3 Duosion tries it will only break the sub while you Megahorn again.

If you get unlucky and switch in on an attack from either here's some calcs for you:

Detailed Result:
0 SpAtk Duosion Psyshock vs 248 HP/252 Def Volbeat (+Def) : 32.43% - 38.14%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Life Orb Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 248 HP/252 Def Volbeat (+Def) : 23.42% - 27.63%
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Life Orb Gurdurr (+Atk) Payback vs 248 HP/252 Def Volbeat (+Def) : 21.02% - 24.92%
6-7 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
**note it fails to 2hko with the doubling of power either way. But does 2hko with rocks damage.

Meanwhile Samurott has this at his disposal:

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Life Orb Samurott (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Duosion (+Def) : 67.66% - 79.64%
2 hits to KO
**Note you'll be behind a sub so Duosion won't be able to kill you

Detailed Result:
4 +3 SpAtk Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gurdurr: 208.02% - 244.92%
Guaranteed OHKO

 

[Straw Hat]

@ Molk, Rotom-S is a little shaky as far as counters go. If Gurdurr uses Bulk Up on the switch, Payback does 40.2%~47.7%, while Air Slash never 1HKOs. If Gurdurr uses Mach Punch (which any competent player will do, that or switch) Rotom-S takes 12.0%~14.5%. After SR, Rotom-S is sitting at about 42% after both attacks. After SR, that number becomes 17%. Duosion then effortlessly KOs with Psyshock. Even with minimum damage rolls on both attacks (so 40+12+52, 100-42=48, -25=23) Duosion still neatly KOs. That, and unless you spin away rocks, Rotom-S is KOed on re-entry to the battle. So... not sure it is a counter.

 

[Molk]

@ Molk, Rotom-S is a little shaky as far as counters go. If Gurdurr uses Bulk Up on the switch, Payback does 40.2%~47.7%, while Air Slash never 1HKOs. If Gurdurr uses Mach Punch (which any competent player will do, that or switch) Rotom-S takes 12.0%~14.5%. After SR, Rotom-S is sitting at about 42% after both attacks. After SR, that number becomes 17%. Duosion then effortlessly KOs with Psyshock. Even with minimum damage rolls on both attacks (so 40+12+52, 100-42=48, -25=23) Duosion still neatly KOs. That, and unless you spin away rocks, Rotom-S is KOed on re-entry to the battle. So... not sure it is a counter.

yeah, thats an issue i realized after posting. While it can beat both 1 vs 1 in some way, but it cant beat both at the same time back to back, which is a problem, i guess ill think of something else then.

 

[Choice Socks]

Surprised no one has mentioned using knock off yet. You destroy their defenses by knocking off eviolite.

 

[Tomahawk]

Musharna (M) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.A
Modest Nature (+Sp.A, -Atk)
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Fighting
-Baton Pass

Musharna can 1HKO 252/4 Eviolite Gurdurr with Psychic, or 2HKO the Sp.D set (81.8%~96.8%). It can 2HKO 252/4 Duosion with Shadow Ball after a Calm Mind. If Duosion Calm Minds again, Musharna does 38.3~45.5, which is a 3HKO, while Duosion can only deal 44.0~51.8 back after a Calm Mind with Hidden Power Bug.

I don't think this really works well. Having a Choice Specs means that to hit Gurdurr you have to lock yourself into Psychic, and to hit Duosion you have to lock yourself into Shadow Ball. Doing this means the other Pokemon gets two turns of set up (while you switch out and back in) and with two Calm Minds in you don't beat Duosion. Also, if Duosion is your last Pokemon you lose.

 

[Django]

Mothim (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost

Can switch in on both Duosion and Gurdurr easily, being able to Roost off the damage even while they are both at +1:

Hide

0SpAtk Duosion (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Mothim (+Def): 33% - 39% (114 - 135 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

0SpAtk +1 Duosion (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Mothim (+Def): 49% - 58% (169 - 201 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 17% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

252Atk +1 Guts Gurdurr (+Atk) doubled Payback vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Mothim (+Def): 48% - 57% (167 - 197 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 14% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

After that it can then 2HKO both Gurdurr and Duosion:

Hide

0SpAtk Mothim (Neutral) Air Slash vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr (Neutral): 48% - 56% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 20% chance to 2HKO.

0SpAtk Mothim (Neutral) Bug Buzz vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Duosion (Neutral): 55% - 66% (186 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

If Duosion decides to Calm Mind twice then it takes 37% - 44% (126 - 150 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO twice, leaving it at 20% assuming average damage. It then takes 28% at +2, so loses.

tl;dr provided they don't hax (get a crit while Mothim is Roosting) then Mothim is a champ and wins.

 

[Ewil]

Choice Scarf Gardevoir

Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA/ 252 Spd /4 HP
Modest Nature

Trick
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt/Focus Blast

Gurrdurr is beated by simply psychic him for an OHKO. Duosion is a beat hard to beat and depends on the situation.

If Garde is in on gurrdurr, the opponent probably going to switch in Duosion predicting a Psychic, but you can go for the safely option and hit the Trick button to cripple one of those two mons (even if Gurr stays in or Duosion switches).

If Garde is in on Duosion and he has no boosts, she can simply going for Shadow Ball and condamn him with a 2HKO (if Gurr is dead).

In any other scenario, use always trick.

The only case when Garde is useless against this core, is when Duosion is at +3+3 or more.

 

[No Luck Involved]

fffffffff FLCL took Quag. Not to worry:

Straighten up your shirts fellow NU peasants, Woobat is in the building.

Woobat (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Torment
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Roost

With Unaware, Woobat really doesn't give two fanny farts about how many boosts either Duosion or Gurdurr have accumulated. And what if the enemy bring their best prediction game? The figures speak for themselves:

252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Payback vs 252 HP/248 Def Eviolite Woobat (+Def) : 25.48% - 30.57% (4 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Duosion Hidden Power Bug vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Woobat: 25.16% - 29.62% (4 hits to KO)

Nothing needs to be said about their other possible efforts:

252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/248 Def Eviolite Woobat (+Def) : 7.01% - 8.6% (12-15 hits to KO)

0 SpAtk Duosion Psyshock vs 252 HP/248 Def Eviolite Woobat (+Def) : 13.06% - 15.29% (7-8 hits to KO)


Woobat not only laughs at the combined efforts of Duosion and Gurdurr, it then proceeds to crush them.

10 SpAtk Woobat Psychic vs 255 HP/5 SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr: 37.7% - 44.92% (3 hits to KO)

And Woobat can of course win effortlessly against Duosion thanks to Unaware and boosting itself up with Calm Mind to dismantle the rest of Duosion's undoubtedly equally puny team.


Torment is there so that the opponent cannot get two consecutive hits with either Payback or Hidden Power Bug on Swoobat. This is to prevent the effects of Roost doubling the power of Hidden Power Bug and also to protect from crits from Gurdurr, which can conceivably win if it got two consecutive crits. With Torment, this isn't possible and thanks to Woobat's high speed, it can Roost up whenever a crit happens.


Here are Woobat's impressions of the other entries:

@Molk: Gurdurr can nail Rotom-S on the switch with Payback and Duosion proceeds to set up on a locked Air Slash.

@Straw Hat: Same problem.

@The Reptile: Possibility of getting KOed before Butterfree moves doesn't sound good, nor does the 25% Sleep Powder miss chance or the chance for the opponent to wake up on the second attempt all of which means Butterfree dies before doing anything.

@FLCL: Gurdurr actually outspeeds Quagsire so Quag must take two consecutive Drain Punches and be forced to Recover until it gets above 67% health before it is safe. Since Gurdurr does 33.76% - 39.85%, this would take up to 6 turns (factoring in SR) + the one turn you get hit on the switch. If a crit happens anywhere in those 7 hits Quag is gone. A 1 in 16 chance for a crit puts Quagsire's survival chance at 56%, not a comfortable number (assuming Gurdurr gets max damage everytime, yeah OK Quag is a good counter).

@Steamroll: If Duosion hits Volbeat with Psyshock after SR then it will 2HKO and Volbeat will be unable to pass anything. Samurott, unable to fend off both on its own, will then lose. Also switching in Samurott on either will see the core lose.

@Django: Maybe you need to provide a spinner too as part of your solution. Woobat is not impressed.

@Ewil: Same problem as Molk and Straw Hat.

Woobat is ruthless but it only does it because it loves you. But really Woobat is not impressed at all.


Note to self: I may have made many new enemies...

 

[Straw Hat]

thanks for the criticism, (and I might not hunt you down NLI!) I will probably think of another one.

 

[Steamroll]

@Steamroll: If Duosion hits Volbeat with Psyshock after SR then it will 2HKO and Volbeat will be unable to pass anything. Samurott, unable to fend off both on its own, will then lose. Also switching in Samurott on either will see the core lose.

Thanks n_n. Samurott is not meant to come in on that core at all and most people would choose not to directly attack when they force a switch and take the free set up turn (or trick to the mon coming in, but that's something different).

 

[elchupo]

Perfect excuse to show off offensive Missy.

Misdreavus @Eviolite
252HP|252Def|4SpA
Bold

-Taunt
-Nasty Plot
-Pain Split
-Shadow Ball

Why Missy?
Well for a start, she can stop both members of the core from setting up very quickly. With Eviolite, she has the necessary bulk to take a few hits while she herself sets up and dispatches of both Gurdurr and Duosion with ease. Her Ghost typing is excellent for this task as she is immune to Gurdurr's STAB, voiding it of its' crucial recovery, and has SE STAB Shadow Ball to take down Duosion. Furthermore, she resists Duosion's coverage move in HP Bug and therefore can afford to fully invest in Def to tank the Psyshocks and Paybacks being dealt out.

This set is designed to take into account both Pokemon being at +1/+1 before Missy comes in. The idea is to switch in while they get to +1, Taunt them, and begin to set up. Pain Split is there to allow Missy to heal herself, should she have to, after NP'ing up.

At +1 both Mon's only do a pittance:

+1/+1 Duosion Psyshock V 252HP/252Def Misdreavus- 31.8 -38.0% (4/3HKO)
+1/+1 Gurdurr Payback V 252HP/252Def Misdreavus- 31.5 - 37.7% (4/3HKO)

Even with minimal investment, after a NP Shadow Ball hits very hard:

+2 4SpA Shadow Ball V +1/+1 Duosion- 61.1 - 72.5%
+2 4SpA Shadow Ball V +1/+1 Gurdurr- 46.8 - 55.3%

Essentially 2HKO'ing both members while they can only hope to 3HKO in return.

 

[alexwolf]

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Recover

Quagsire can ignore any boosts that Gurdurr or Duosion accumulate and proceed to set up on them. Both fail to 2HKO Quagsire initially and after a few Curses, they will be unable to do any significant damage. As long as a critical hit doesn't happen, Quagsire can switch in on any move that either Gurdurr or Duosion use and beat them. More defense could be used to counter these Pokemon more thoroughly, but these are the standard EV's and are more useful in other situations.

252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Quagsire: 33.76% - 39.85%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

0 SpAtk Duosion Psyshock vs 252 HP/0 Def Quagsire: 30.46% - 36.04%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Why max SpDefense? The only special attack these 2 mons carry is HP Bug, which is doing shit, so why not invest fully in defense, to avoid all the scenarios that No Luck Involved mentioned?

 

[jake]

This set is designed to take into account both Pokemon being at +1/+1 before Missy comes in. The idea is to switch in while they get to +1, Taunt them, and begin to set up. Pain Split is there to allow Missy to heal herself, should she have to, after NP'ing up.

At +1 both Mon's only do a pittance:

+1/+1 Duosion Psyshock V 252HP/252Def Misdreavus- 31.8 -38.0% (4/3HKO)
+1/+1 Gurdurr Payback V 252HP/252Def Misdreavus- 31.5 - 37.7% (4/3HKO)

Even with minimal investment, after a NP Shadow Ball hits very hard:

+2 4SpA Shadow Ball V +1/+1 Duosion- 61.1 - 72.5%
+2 4SpA Shadow Ball V +1/+1 Gurdurr- 46.8 - 55.3%

Essentially 2HKO'ing both members while they can only hope to 3HKO in return.

+1 252 +Atk Gurdurr Payback vs 252/252+ Misdreavus: 204-240 (62.96 - 74.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No. The calc you're giving is for a +0 Payback from a Gurdurr with 0 Attack EVs and a neutral nature, which is not what's in the OP. Misdreavus is dominated by Gurdurr, especially if they predict the Taunt and just 2HKO with Payback as soon as you switch in.

Why max SpDefense? The only special attack these 2 mons carry is HP Bug, which is doing shit, so why not invest fully in defense, to avoid all the scenarios that No Luck Involved mentioned?

It's using Curse to boost its Defense, and that is the standard Curse set. It does have to deal with what NLI mentioned, though.

I'll be posting my ideas shortly.

 

[alexwolf]

@Zebraiken

Yeah but the goal of this thread isn't to find the most NU viable poke that counters the duo, but to find the best NU poke to deal with this duo and this only. So even if you have Curse, max Defense is better since the strongest special attack you will be taking is HP Bug.

 

[TROP]

Random mons time:

(M) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Healing Wish
- Taunt
- Psychic

(M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Air Slash

• Regardless of opponent Gardevoir sets up Sunny Day.
• If needed Taunt to prevent set up
• Healing Wish to bring Charizard to full health if he was near death.
• Psychic is just here for filler and is not really needed.
  
• Once Gardy faints, Charizards come in.
• Click Fire Blast to OHKO both easily.

 

[jake]

Haunter @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitiate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Disable
- Sludge Bomb

It may take a pivot, double switch, coming in after a KO, or simple predicting to effectively switch in without getting mauled by Payback or Psyshock, but SubDisable shuts down both Pokemon so effectively that it's worth posting the set, imo. You can come in freely on 3/4 moves from both Pokemon, since HP Bug does jack all to Haunter (+1 HP Bug vs Haunter: 7.75 - 9.48%), and set up a Substitute. From there you can attack both Pokemon with Shadow Ball / Sludge Bomb. Gurdurr is 3HKOed by Sludge Bomb and cannot touch Haunter outside of Payback, which you can Disable to stop it from doing anything to you at all. Duosion is slightly tougher, but you can Disable Psyshock to keep it at bay and force it to spam Recover / Calm Mind while you barrage it with Shadow Balls until you get a SpD drop or a crit, both of which will happen given time. Haunter has a good shot at 2HKOing a +1 Duosion with Shadow Ball (162-192 (48.5 - 57.48%) -- 91.02% chance to 2HKO) and does enough damage at +2 to force it to Recover repeatedly or else it will die.

Obviously the big issue with this is getting it in effectively, but that's a matter of prediction and teambuilding outside of this core and shouldn't really be relevant to the discussion, especially when it's essentially immune to 6/8 moves and can Disable the other two to prevent them from working.

Another thing: If your core does not obviously counter the Round One core, please post explaining how your core wins.

Saying "it comes in on Drain Punch" is not a counter if Payback OHKO's you. Look at the Duo Destruction thread in LC or No Luck Involved's post for a solid post and explanation.

Not sure if this was directed at me but I did mention several times that Haunter will have to come in on a double switch, KO, or predict well (3/4s of the time) so that it isn't murdered when coming in. It's pretty much untouched by the two after it's in, so I don't see the need to explain myself further. If it's necessary I can post something like a stupidly slow U-turn user if I really need to. :/

Well, if Gurdurr manages to use Mach Punch on the turn you use Disable then you lose, but apart from that its cool.

Yeah, but that's one of those prediction-y things too, since if Haunter Substitutes on the Mach Punch then it gets a free shot at it with Sludge Bomb. It only has to win that prediction war once more beyond that to finish it off with Sludge Bomb. Regardless, it's irrefutable that Gurdurr does have the potential to win out, but Haunter has more chances to win the war and it can very well just Sludge Bomb Gurdurr to death while it tries to catch Haunter's Disable with a Mach Punch.

 

[Django]

Well, if Gurdurr manages to use Mach Punch on the turn you use Disable then you lose, but apart from that its cool.

Also can we clarify a point about hazards and general field conditions? Normally this works better when no hazards at all are assumed, but since NLI brought but that Mothim may need a spinner, it raises the point. Since no hazards are assumed on the side of the core, it only makes sense to do so for the other core as well. Checks and Counters become far too situational otherwise. Obviously using stuff like Focus Sash is still pointless, but assuming Stealth Rock cuts down the effectiveness of so many Pokemon.