SM OU Darkium Z Hoopa // Vincune Balance

[TheKrookedGatr]

Darkium Z Hoopa // Vincune Balance

Importable

Hoopa-Unbound @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Snatch
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt
- Gunk Shot

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

Tapu Koko @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

So this is a team I made a while ago around a fire/water/grass core of tangrowth, suicune, and heatran. The sets and other mons have changed a lot, but here is the final version of the team. It focuses on using the core to absorb hits, koko and lando to pivot around, and hoopa to wallbreak.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Snatch
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt
- Gunk Shot

I think physical hoopa is extremely underrated, especially with a move as broken as hyperspace fury. The darkinium Z can be paired with either dark move. Z-snatch gives hoopa +2 speed (outspeeding every relevant scarfer) as well as stealing any stat boosts the target used on that turn. Z-hyperspace is an absolute nuke. Zen headbutt is mostly for pex and venusaur, but also for STAB on mons like the tapus and other fighting types that resist dark. Gunk is for bulu in particular, but other grass and fairy types too. Hoopa is either used to sweep or wallbreak typically, depending on the opposing team. The Z move nuke is extremely useful, OHKOing nearly every non resist or phys-def mon.

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Att
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake

Standard vest tangrowth, so there isn't much to say here. It's an extremely useful pivot, being able to sponge hits from zygarde, electrics, greninja, and many others while healing all the damage back upon switch. Giga drain is STAB; HP ice is for lando/zygarde/gardchomp; knock is for item removal, and EQ is for tran/pex. Nothing else to say, it's just here to be annoying and sponge water and ground hits directed at lando/koko/tran.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

The real MVP of the team and a really underrated mon in the current OU metagame right now, in my opinion. Due to the omnipotence of toxapex, weak volt switchers like mag and rotom, and many other attackers that are either weak to scald or unable to break suicune's sub, this mon has a lot of opportunities to set up. Because of pressure, suicune can stall out moves like power whip from ferrothorn and giga drains from tang/venu, a well as just general moves with 10/15 PP. It's not meant to sweep, it's just meant to PP stall and force switches, which it does very well. I don't have any replays to show this, but it gets a lot of opportunities to set up and annoy the opponent.

some calcs if you're feeling mathy

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 22-27 (5.4 - 6.6%)
8 SpA Magearna Volt Switch vs. +1 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 74-88 (18.3 - 21.7%)
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. +1 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 90-108 (22.2 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 84-100 (20.7 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 94-112 (23.2 - 27.7%)

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

Standard stallbreaker tran. This mon is S or A ranked (I forget...) for a reason. I really like this set, and I forwent stealth rocks in favor of earth power to have a way to hit opposing heatran/pex/other mons super effectively and trap them better. Taunt/toxic is standard for wearing down defensive walls that don't have SE coverage, like magearna, some jirachi, pex (bc scald does, like 5), ferro, scizor, and pretty much every other steel type. It's such an instrumental piece of the defensive core, being able to take hits from scarf kartana, shift gear magearna, lele, zam, and many other prevelant threats. It also has great offensive synergy with hoopa, breaking down a lot of its checks, as well as poisoning mons to be more easily worn down by suicune.

Tapu Koko @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

This set has probably changed the most out of all the pokemon, ranging from specs to Z to screens to finally shuca/hp ice pivot. U-turn is used over volt switch because my team doesn't deal to well with switching into grounds out of koko, particularly excadrill. Dazzling gleam is a questionable move (it has been switched with defog), but it's on the set for now. Tbolt because STAB. HP ice for zygarde/lando/garchomp. I will take the KO on a lead lando/chomp any day, which a lot of people still don't expect. Otherwise, it's just a fast pivot to get hoopa or suicune in to break.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

Wouldn't be an OU team without this flying cloud dog. This spot on the team has oscillated between some other breakers, but lando's speed, intimidate support, fast hazard removal, and knock off support is really nice. EQ for STAB. U-turn for momentum. Knock off is mostly for chansey, but also for removing leftovers on bulkier mons to help suicune out more. Defog has gone on both lando and koko, but I feel like lando has more opportunities to defog. Scarf can get some surprise kills, but it's more to pick up revenge kills than anything else.

THREAT LIST
SWORDS DANCE KARTANA - Fightinium Z destroys the core, especially if tangrowth is weakened. If koko is gone, say your prayers.
MEGA ALAKAZAM/OTHER PSYCHIC SPAM - Zam and lele are threatening, as heatran and tangrowth are the only mons that can take hits.
KYUREM BLACK - This mon is dumb. Nothing can one shot it and it pretty much gets a kill on everything but suicune, who can't do jack.
SWAMPERT - Rain isn't too big of a deal, but pert can tear holes in my team, especially if it can get a power-up punch boost.

So that's the team! The defensive core is a little passive and the only mon with real offensive pressure is hoopa, which can be really annoying, especially against bulkier teams. (although suicune can almost 6-0 stall without phazing). However, the team is very good at generating momentum and forcing switches. Set-up can be an issue, as well as wallbreakers with coverage against my core. However, the team functions very well synergy-wise. I am open to any suggestions on this team, either switching pokemon or movesets, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for rating! See you guys on the ladder.

 

[Twilight]

Yo cool team dude, I love the concept of z snatch Hoopa I've tried it before and it means it can be a potent sweeper tho you do forgo some of that physical damage without a choice band. I also love suicune in general, i have tried making a team myself but have always come up short on making it shine so its nice to see youve done it without toxic spikes support as well.

The main issue I see with your team on top of the ones you've listed are that you have no stealth rock user which is important on balance to wear down the opponents team easier. I do think your stall match up is quite difficult as well with Hoopa not being banded but if you haven't found much difficulty breaking through it then that's fine.

1. So first of all I would recommend running Roost > Dazzling gleam on your koko because it helps improve its longitivity meaning it can continue to act as your Pinsir and Hawlucha check later on in a game. I would change up the ev spread to the one on the main smogon page which lets you survive certain ground type moves from zygarde at +1 and lando.

2. I would change Tangrowth and replace it with Tapu Bulu. Bulu acts as an excellent switch into most of the psychic spammers you have issue with. It has grassy terrain which is excellent for your Suicune as it gets two turns of lefties, same with heatran. It keeps acting as a check to Zygarde and the other mons you listed but also provides more offensive presence. It also says three ice punches from mega swamped with the given ev spread and proceeds to force it out whenever it comes in. It isn't the most effective check but it isn't a bad one.

3. I would run Hidden Power Fire > Knock off on landorus to help deal with your kartana issue and it also means you can deal with scizor too. The reason I haven't suggested hidden power ice is because you have a multitude of ways to beat other lando and zygarde in the form of shuca koko and bulu. This would help reduce your kartana weakness a lot but only with a change in ev spread because right now bulky lando is the best scarf set. Letting it check Kartana, zygarde and Lucha better for example.

4. Put Stealth Rock on your heatran over toxic because it is extremely important on pretty much every team. Most of the time you don't need toxic to wear down a Mon when you trap it as taunt is normally enough. It does make beating bulkier Mons harder but Stealth Rock is a must.

5. I would personally run banded Hoopa mainly because it just doesn't have enough power to muscle through bulkier teams without the item. Z Hoopa is a nice one time nuke but if the opponent chooses to make a double you never beat Chansey one on one without the Z. Banded means you can 2ohko Chansey and OHKO clefable with gunk. This is just a suggestion as Bulu does now help alleviate some of that reliancy on Hoopa.

If you feel you pref Z Hoopa on this team continue to do so though lando and koko are potentially good sweepers too. If you do forgo The Z move you can opt to run firium Z on Heatran.

Import

http://pokepast.es/686e8e908427f963

I hope these changes help with your current problems. I normally prefer Suicune with Toxic Spikes support so you could look to incorporate that. Best of luck.

Edit: I realised your team does struggle with Zard Y so you could opt for Stone Edge on Bulu to catch it on the switch, plus you can OHKO volc if it tries to set up in your face. Another option is to run rock slide on lando tho you do lose the kartana and scizor coverage.

 

[TheKrookedGatr]

Yo cool team dude, I love the concept of z snatch Hoopa I've tried it before and it means it can be a potent sweeper tho you do forgo some of that physical damage without a choice band. I also love suicune in general, i have tried making a team myself but have always come up short on making it shine so its nice to see youve done it without toxic spikes support as well.

The main issue I see with your team on top of the ones you've listed are that you have no stealth rock user which is important on balance to wear down the opponents team easier. I do think your stall match up is quite difficult as well with Hoopa not being banded but if you haven't found much difficulty breaking through it then that's fine.

1. So first of all I would recommend running Roost > Dazzling gleam on your koko because it helps improve its longitivity meaning it can continue to act as your Pinsir and Hawlucha check later on in a game. I would change up the ev spread to the one on the main smogon page which lets you survive certain ground type moves from zygarde at +1 and lando.

2. I would change Tangrowth and replace it with Tapu Bulu. Bulu acts as an excellent switch into most of the psychic spammers you have issue with. It has grassy terrain which is excellent for your Suicune as it gets two turns of lefties, same with heatran. It keeps acting as a check to Zygarde and the other mons you listed but also provides more offensive presence. It also says three ice punches from mega swamped with the given ev spread and proceeds to force it out whenever it comes in. It isn't the most effective check but it isn't a bad one.

3. I would run Hidden Power Fire > Knock off on landorus to help deal with your kartana issue and it also means you can deal with scizor too. The reason I haven't suggested hidden power ice is because you have a multitude of ways to beat other lando and zygarde in the form of shuca koko and bulu. This would help reduce your kartana weakness a lot but only with a change in ev spread because right now bulky lando is the best scarf set. Letting it check Kartana, zygarde and Lucha better for example.

4. Put Stealth Rock on your heatran over toxic because it is extremely important on pretty much every team. Most of the time you don't need toxic to wear down a Mon when you trap it as taunt is normally enough. It does make beating bulkier Mons harder but Stealth Rock is a must.

5. I would personally run banded Hoopa mainly because it just doesn't have enough power to muscle through bulkier teams without the item. Z Hoopa is a nice one time nuke but if the opponent chooses to make a double you never beat Chansey one on one without the Z. Banded means you can 2ohko Chansey and OHKO clefable with gunk. This is just a suggestion as Bulu does now help alleviate some of that reliancy on Hoopa.

If you feel you pref Z Hoopa on this team continue to do so though lando and koko are potentially good sweepers too. If you do forgo The Z move you can opt to run firium Z on Heatran.

Import

http://pokepast.es/686e8e908427f963

I hope these changes help with your current problems. I normally prefer Suicune with Toxic Spikes support so you could look to incorporate that. Best of luck.

Edit: I realised your team does struggle with Zard Y so you could opt for Stone Edge on Bulu to catch it on the switch, plus you can OHKO volc if it tries to set up in your face. Another option is to run rock slide on lando tho you do lose the kartana and scizor coverage.

Hey dude, thanks for the rate; I really appreciate it!

Firstly, I like the roost on koko; I will see how it works instead of dazzle. I actually had roost on there for a while when it was a cm koko, but I took it off for coverage. I will definitely try again

I LOVE the idea for vest bulu, which I don't know how I blanked on because it's one of my favorite sets in OU right now. I like the leech/nm/edge/sp set because it hits so much while getting recovery. That will definitely be a switch I will make. I will try HP fire lando (which I have not used before) because bulu makes zygarde and non SS lando much less threatening. I almost never see zard y's anymore, but I typically just pivot from tran to koko, but throwing rocks on tran will help a lot.

Toxic on tran is mostly for mons that heatran cannot outlast with only magma/ep damage, (CHANSEY), but I will try rocks and see how my matchup against it fairs.

I don't know how much I like switching to band on hoopa. It typically gets all of the 2HKOs I need it to, and switching moves is very nice when teams have cores with pex/bulu or something along those lines. The nuke is also really nice for special setup sweepers, which hoopa can typically live due to it's above average specially bulk and kill with the Z move. Z-snatch is also incredibly useful, making quick work of hyper offensive teams. I'll give it a shot, but no promises.

I like toxic spikes, but it adds a lot of type redundancy bc the only relevant tspikers (gren/pex/cruel) are water types. I'll give it some thought.

Again, thanks for the review. I like these changes a lot!