SM LC DD Scraggy + Cottonnee memento support

[rsiddharth97]

Introduction​

Hey guys, first time posting a proper thread here so do bare with me (didn't know about all the rules last time). Totally new to LC so did some studying up on the meta and saw how prevalent Regenerator was as well as how set up sweep was a lot rarer due to super hard hitters. So my plan was to try to use Scraggy to take advantage of it's Moxie boost to act as a free set up turn, which is aided by Dragon Dance to outspeed stuff. Which lead to the question of how the situation would be created to get the ball rolling. This came in the form of Memento Cottonnee. The team has been tested with some help from Subjection from Showdown, and now I just want to iron out the creases since it obviously has some flaws as well as flaws which could get greater,higher up in the ladder.

Teambuilding Process​

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The Team​

Scraggy @ Eviolite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 236 Atk / 116 Def / 132 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Dual Chop
- Dragon Dance
​

As previously mentioned, Scraggy is the most important component here and is held back till late game to get off a free dragon dance. The situation requires it to be brought in on a mon that's not a threat or a mon that has already been hit with a memento. From there on, take the kill and get +2 attack and things generally roll fine after that. In terms of it's moveset, drain punch allows him to heal off damage taken while setting up which prevents priority from stopping him. Something that I then later noticed was that if focus sash magic guard Abra was held in the back then it could knock me out with dazzling gleam and stop the sweep This is where Dual chop came in which allows me to get through sash Abras whichout my sweep being stopped. Dealing with Abra is also my reason for running Jolly over Adamant, because at the current speed investment I don't outspeed Abra after a dragon dance since it appears stats are rounded down ( do correct me if I'm wrong). The last move has been a bit of a debate between Knock off and Zen head butt. Initially I was running Zen heabutt to deal with Meinfoo but later I noticed that even a +1 Adamant Scraggy wasn't OHKOing a Meinfoo and they're almost always coming in on high health because of Regen. So I realized that I needed to either weaken the Meinfoo before my sweep using some other mon. So running Zen didn't have as much as a purpose so I swapped over to Knock off which has been working fine. So I don't see a necessity to swap to Crunch but it is a potential future option.

Cottonee @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Memento
- Stun Spore
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
​

Next up was Cottonnee. Getting a chance for Scraggy to safely dragon dance was my next objective and the answer I saw to this was Memento. By either forcing my opponent out, or by cutting his offensive presence in half, that would give me the chance to dance up. The rest of Cottonne's moves are pretty changeable. Giga drain is to help me heal up in case I need to send out Cottonnee early. But for the most part, it's staying in the back till later in the game. Stun Spore has randomly come in handy in the even of needing to slow down any off my opponents who are either scarfed or try to start a sweep of their own (Shell smash shellder for example). Dazzling gleam used to be Knock off but I literally never clicked it. Given how fighting types are running rampant I figured this was the better option anyways since Meinfoo is just a big threat but isn't running poison jab that commonly from what I see.

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 200 SpA / 80 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sucker Punch
​

Gastly and Grimer are my main team players for the early and mid game. Gastly main function is to chip away at threats so that +1 Scraggy can pick them off. The broad coverage of Gastly gives it that chance to chip away at pretty much anything. Furthermore, it goes well which its mid game partner, Grimer, but being able to switch into any earthquakes while Grimer takes the psychics on behalf of Gastly. Dazzling gleam or Psychic was a debate but after having run the team I feel dazzling gleam has worked better due to Grimers coming in on me while still being able to hit the fighting types. Sucker punch gives me that additional safety net in case something sweep of the opponent's gets out of hand or if something just needs a little more chip for Scraggy to clean up.

Wingull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn
​

Wingull, initially it was a filler mon but after having used it, it really goes patch some holes in the team by acting as an additional water resist for the instances when I actually need to save Onix for later (although thats not all that often). Its water typing comes in use during the early and mid game to deal with ground/ rock types due to me having to hold back on my grass and fighting types for the late game. Additionally its hurricane has proved extremely useful for putting a dent in Foongus while threatening Meinfoo, Timburr and Snivy. Due to this I was actually considering Flying-z over Berry juice but never implemented it since I feel the ability to switch in once on rocks or just to come in to take a hit is important. U- turn is there for momentum but is pretty much almost never used due to the threat of Weak armour Vulaby which can just be thrown in front of the truck and get an easy boost. Defog, hasn't been used many many times but it proves useful against web setting teams while also being useful in matches where my opponent is more in need of going for his own sweep and I don't have the necessity to set up since everything is chipped enough to a point where Moxie boosts are enough to get me rolling without rocks on the opponent's side.

Onix @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
​

Which team is complete without some hazards? Main role is to act as a suicide lead - Set up rocks, get speed boost, smack something with one of its moves and die. The combination of earthquake+rock blast+explosion allows me to hit almost anything. There will be some very rare cases where I will save Onix for the mid game if the opponent is carrying Mareanie or Ponyta.

Grimer-Alola @ Berry Juice
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 196 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak
​

Grimer is the other big team player that holds up the mid game till Cottonnee can make an entrance. Already explained why it pairs well with Gastly. Additionally the bulk that it has also allows it to switch into quite a few moves. Spamming knock offs to remove berry juices for the end game sweep. Gunk shot to damage anything that it has a fair match up against. And sneak for that last ditch effort chip. Pursuit appears to be the move which I almost never use and was thinking of having that changed up. Maybe to fire punch to hit Ferroseed?

Conclusion​

For the conclusion I'll point out the notes,flaws and additional little info that I gathered from this team. First and foremost, the big note that needs to be made is with regard to the EVs. I understand that they may need tweaking since the EVs were applied to each pokemon based off of sets found on the forums. So as a whole they may not be perfect for this team or for this current meta so am open to tweaking those. The only thing I did tweak with regard to stats was changing Scraggy from Adamant to Jolly since to outspeed Abra at +1.

In terms of how well the team functioned, I went 20-8 (20 wins, 8 losses). These stats were over the whole course of testing the team out,rather than just the final product. The break down of the wins were pretty even where there were 12 Scraggy sweeps and the remaining 8 were kinda between Scraggy and the rest of the team. I shall post some replays below.

Sweeps -

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-764961025
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-764964231
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-764969743
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-764966577

Not Sweep -

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-764968941

As for the flaws and issues that I identified -

1) Meinfoo Meinfoo Meinfoo. The issue around is it that regen allows it come in at close to full, so it's not exactly chipped. Rather it needs to be *chunked* by something early on so that regen is accounted for for once the sweep begins. If it is not properly weakened then it beats a Scraggy even after it has dragon danced. Timburr on the other hand, seems to not be as big of a deal.

2) There could be an argument made to run Zen Headbutt over knock off which is why I'm putting his here. A few of the loses came about when I was running Zen headbutt and came across a random Honedge which stopped my sweep even after I had got a dragon dance up and zen never flinched it. Similarly with Mantyke, without sufficient moxie boosts it doesn't die to zen and drain punch is resisted. So it took the hit, didn't flinch and then burned with scald. True, most of this can be attributed to my bad luck too but it is something worth mentioning. Pontyas and their flame body burns are another thing but I don't think that can really be dealt with other than by trying to kill it earlier.

3) However, what I do see as really big problem is dealing with steel types. The reason being Scraggy is held in the back till the late game. So I need to deal with steel types like Magnemite, Ferroseed, Honedge,Pawniard with just Onix. This is a problem since Onix also functions as a lead and my only rocker. On top of that he's super frail on the special side and weak armor means he's not taking too many hits on the physical either. This could be worked around by bringing in Scraggy earlier and getting off some drain punches. However, this solution doesn't work when there is a steel type+Meinfoo. Reason being I'm forced to bring out Scraggy early. This gives the opponent the chance to switch into Meinfoo who doesn't care about neutral drain punch damage since regenerator heals it off. On the other hand Scraggy definitely cares since I'm forced to switch or die to high jump kick. If I switch then there's the question of what the opponent does and then it comes down to luck since it has something for everyone on my team. High Jump kick takes out onix, knock off takes out Gastly, u-turn gives the opponent full momentum while chunking both Cottonee and Grimer. So the only switch in is Wingull but most games are going to have rocks up which mean it just dies too and if there aren't rocks up, well then that becomes the rare time when I can click u-turn.

So that's the end of that, looking forward to hearing some advice and opinions on how the team can be bettered. I also haven't gotten into the middle of the ladder or anything so also keen to heard how or what should be changed up when I get to like 1400+.

Importable

Scraggy @ Eviolite
Ability: Moxie
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 116 Def / 132 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Dual Chop
- Dragon Dance

Cottonee @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 196 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Memento
- Stun Spore
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain

Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 200 SpA / 80 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sucker Punch

Wingull @ Berry Juice
Ability: Keen Eye
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn

Onix @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

Grimer-Alola @ Berry Juice
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 196 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak

 

[fran17]

hey there!! this is a promising team but there are some things that don't really work out :( scraggy set should be perfectionated, especially the evs spread. and also you can shift defog from wingull to cottonee so you can free a slot on wingull, and priority defog can be more useful! also i never liked playing without scarf because faster threats can always find a way to mess you up @_@ overrall the team looks pretty solid except for this annoying scarf mag weakness which can be played around with a scarf mon and pursuit grimer

let's start talking about scraggy

:

set

Scraggy @ Eviolite
Ability: Moxie
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt

this is the optimal moveset in my opinion for your team, zhb is way better then dual chop, and you have grimer anyway to break the abra's sash; play well around fighting types with this, maybe you can send scraggy earlier in the game just to knock off the eviolite to the oppo's foo or timburr. this change fits well with the suggestion i have for cottonee, which is z memento so you can try to break the opposite team in mid game and if it doesn't work you can restore scraggy to full for the end game. you can also go for shed skin over moxie if you are scared of scald burns or twaves, but it's all on you; the new evs let you take hits way better so you can setup easier

now on cottonee

and wingull

:

set

Cottonee @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 60 SpA / 116 SpD / 148 Spe
Calm Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Defog
- Memento
- Knock Off

as i previously told you, i think defog on cottonee is better because of the priority, but if you want to keep it on wingull you can put hp ground or fire here! the spread is to reach 15 speed so you can be faster then slowfoos and 14 speed vullaby;
on wingull you should just replace defog with protect and i'll explain you why - protect gives you the opportunity to scout on the scarf mon that comes to revenge kill you, especially scarf magnemite which is a huge pain for the team, so you can avoid annoying 50/50s and get an advantage

choice scarf gastly

:

set

Gastly @ Choice Scarf
Level: 5
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Trick
- Dazzling Gleam

cs gastly can manage to sweep after scraggy weakened enough the opposite team and helps you againist things like snivy+diglett which can be annoying to play around. trick can also give the opportunity to setup with scraggy if you don't need the scarf!!

btw on onix you can go for full atk instead of def you don't really need that at all

that's all, i hope you can find this helpful n_n

 

[rsiddharth97]

that's all, i hope you can find this helpful n_n

Hi Fran, firstly, thank you so much for your help and for taking time out of your day to write out such a detailed reply! Totally wish I had thought of Darkinium Z before, love that idea! I just had a few questions to make sure that I understand the role behind some of the changes.

With regard to putting Zen headutt back on Scraggy over Dual chop. What exactly is the purpose of Zen headbutt itself? Because the old set which had higher atk EVs still wasn't OHKOing Meinfoo after a boost. So I assume this is for some other mon? Because what was happening before was I would get to +1 or 2 with Scraggy. Then I use Zen on Meinfoo and if it's at full then it lives and OHKOs with high jump kick, and then it switches out and its back up near 50%.

Just to be clear I do understand that Zen is superior to Dual Chop. My question is more of whats the value behind bringing back Zen headbutt which wasn't exactly supporting the sweep (unless I flinched) while Dual chop was by not letting a well protected sash abra from stopping me. People do tend to protect their abras from my team other than stopping my sweep and sweeping by itself, both of which require it to be held back till the late game. Unfortunately don't have the recording to show what I meant :/ Basically it went along the lines of me chipping down his whole team except for Abra which was kept at full and sash intake -> Memento and then Dragon Dance - > Knock out opponent and get to +2 attack so can kill basically everything -> Opponent brings out sash abra knowing the sash will save him and that dazzling gleam OHKOs me - > Dual chop takes him out.

I have made all the changes with the EVs, I really appreciate your help there since I don't really know the spreads for LC.

The other question I had was with regard to the Grimer since you didn't change anything up on that. Assuming all the EVs on it are okay (?), would you suggest sticking with pursuit? Was the purpose of pursuit to deal with scarf mag? Because I don't quite see how that works out. Because if Mag locks into t-bolt or flash cannon and kills a mon, and I bring in Grimer, doesn't it 2HKO me anyways? Where as pursuit probably won't? Which is another reason why I was questioning fire punch. Because its not really possible for him to be forced to switch by locking into volt switch of course.

Once again, I really appreciate your help!

 

[fran17]

Hi Fran, firstly, thank you so much for your help and for taking time out of your day to write out such a detailed reply! Totally wish I had thought of Darkinium Z before, love that idea! I just had a few questions to make sure that I understand the role behind some of the changes.

With regard to putting Zen headutt back on Scraggy over Dual chop. What exactly is the purpose of Zen headbutt itself? Because the old set which had higher atk EVs still wasn't OHKOing Meinfoo after a boost. So I assume this is for some other mon? Because what was happening before was I would get to +1 or 2 with Scraggy. Then I use Zen on Meinfoo and if it's at full then it lives and OHKOs with high jump kick, and then it switches out and its back up near 50%.

zhb is more for foongus/croagunk/mareanie then foo, since you hit it harder with hjk then with zhb anyway...if you don't like it so much you can try drain punch over it, as it's more reliable then hjk if you have to hit a low health mon - or iron head to hit fairies...it's all on you

The other question I had was with regard to the Grimer since you didn't change anything up on that. Assuming all the EVs on it are okay (?), would you suggest sticking with pursuit? Was the purpose of pursuit to deal with scarf mag? Because I don't quite see how that works out. Because if Mag locks into t-bolt or flash cannon and kills a mon, and I bring in Grimer, doesn't it 2HKO me anyways? Where as pursuit probably won't? Which is another reason why I was questioning fire punch. Because its not really possible for him to be forced to switch by locking into volt switch of course.

Once again, I really appreciate your help!

pursuit on grimer-a is mandatory, it's what makes him a good mon, you can trap the likes of gastly, abra, and you can chip out mons if they switch i.e. magnemite that vswitches on you

 

[rsiddharth97]

zhb is more for foongus/croagunk/mareanie then foo, since you hit it harder with hjk then with zhb anyway...if you don't like it so much you can try drain punch over it, as it's more reliable then hjk if you have to hit a low health mon - or iron head to hit fairies...it's all on youpursuit on grimer-a is mandatory, it's what makes him a good mon, you can trap the likes of gastly, abra, and you can chip out mons if they switch i.e. magnemite that vswitches on you

Gotcha! Thanks for all the help, I shall make those changes :)