Doubles XY Metagame Speculation (obviously spoilers)

[Pocket]

Trick Room is +0 priority now (along with the other rooms)

holy hell this is huge this is going straight to the OP

yes this is a short post but +0 priority Trick Room such a huge buff holy sheeiit.

nyttyn, you mixed up Trick Room with Magic Room. Zebraiken just confirmed that Trick Room has a negative priority.

Protection moves seems to fail 30% of the time on the 2nd consecutive use. Double Protect just got riskier :0

 

[StarmanXL]

Is that per user individually or does the counter affect the entire team?

Anyway, given all these changes, do you think we're going to see a far more offensive metagame? I mean there's some cool stuff to block status and whatnot but...

 

[Nollan]

Is that per user individually or does the counter affect the entire team?

Anyway, given all these changes, do you think we're going to see a far more offensive metagame? I mean there's some cool stuff to block status and whatnot but...

My guess is the metagame will become a very bulky offense one, as Dragons (aka your super offensive menaces) will become less common due to Fairies. Steel-types will in return likely become very common, using their heavy bulk a number of resistances (though they did lose two of them in exchange for gaining one) to tank attacks and strike back hard. I also suspect Trick Room will become the most popular speed control method, as Thunder Wave (one of the most popular) is now held back a fair bit by Electric-types becoming immune to it.

 

[Pata Hikari]

Incinerate now can burn gems.

This is a pretty interesting change, as many Pokemon rely on Gems in the fast paced Doubles game to get that extra power needed for choice KOs. The ability to flat out remove them is interesting, the move's been buffed to 60 power as well.

 

[BlankZero]

Incinerate now can burn gems.

This is a pretty interesting change, as many Pokemon rely on Gems in the fast paced Doubles game to get that extra power needed for choice KOs. The ability to flat out remove them is interesting, the move's been buffed to 60 power as well.

Knock Off got a similar buff and doubles it's BP (to 120) when hitting something with an item (everything).

This could potentially fuck up a lot of things with a sudden STAB Knock Off (180 BP) which kills your item. I had been goofing off with a bulky Mandibuzz set using Tailwind and Knock Off to disrupt Cress' items, and now it just got better :3

 

[mael]

The Protect nerf seems to be quite a thing, but what interests me the most is probably that Knock Off got buffed and since this is Pokemon and everything is relying on Items, you might as well go for non Item Cresselia now, to prevent getting hit by a strong Knock Off. Will there actually be a thing like non Item Pokemons? Knock off is a pretty widely distributed move and a lot of Pokemon can use it as a filler, probably even > Protect.

Now what probably interests me the most is that Cresselia and Togekiss are now Fairy Mons, and that type is a pretty decent defensive Typing, and considering that those Pokemons were used before with worse Types you might probably see way more of them.

Another thing that really amazes me is Sticky Web. Speed drop for everything that comes in? Hello strong Attackers with not enough speed, we love you. Or will it just be one of those moves that both sides have so it doesn't matter at all. What kinda sucks is that only a few pretty much useless Pokemon get it.

I have no idea what to say about Megas tho.

 

[Pocket]

Temptation, please link us to where Cresselia is referenced to be a Fairy-type and Knock Off power to be boosted. According to serebii, Cresselia isn't a Fairy-type. Also someobdy on the Battle Mechanics Research Thread has confirmed that Knock Off doesn't boost in power.

Please check your facts before posting rumors to be true

According to R Inanimate, Mat Block is 0 priority move that doesn't stack up with other Protect moves, which do have priority! It can also only be used on the first turn the Pokemon is active on the field, just like Fake Out. So basically Mat Block is only really useful on fast Pokemon like Greninja, and wont protect you from priority moves / Fake Out, in addition to non-damaging moves. Interesting mechanics!

 

[BlankZero]

Sticky Web does t affect Flying types or Pokemon with Levitate, making Thundurus and Zapdos very interesting Pokemon, considering neither can be Paralyzed or slowed unless using Icy Wind.

String Shot got a buff too I hear. Any confirmation?

 

[Deoxymoron]

Sticky Web does t affect Flying types or Pokemon with Levitate, making Thundurus and Zapdos very interesting Pokemon, considering neither can be Paralyzed or slowed unless using Icy Wind.

String Shot got a buff too I hear. Any confirmation?

Serebii says that String Shot now raises the user's speed two stages along with its previous use, essentially making it a better Agility. Source: http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/stringshot.shtml

Speaking of bug-type moves that lower the opponent's speed, I think the best counter to Sticky Web right now is Malamar. In fact, with Cresselia weak to one of its STABs and actually getting an attack boost from Intimidate, it seems like a great anti-meta pokemon in Doubles.

Malamar @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Hypnosis/Substitute

252 Atk Life Orb Malamar Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 213-252 (47.97 - 56.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Malamar Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 237-281 (53.37 - 63.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The set is the standard for Malamar, with one exception. With Life Orb, Malamar becomes much more powerful, allowing it to score powerful OHKOs and 2HKOs where it couldn't before. With attack boosts from Superpower and Intimidate, it can make a good lategame sweeper. Thoughts?

 

[Audiosurfer]

Serebii says that String Shot now raises the user's speed two stages along with its previous use, essentially making it a better Agility. Source: http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/stringshot.shtml

Speaking of bug-type moves that lower the opponent's speed, I think the best counter to Sticky Web right now is Malamar. In fact, with Cresselia weak to one of its STABs and actually getting an attack boost from Intimidate, it seems like a great anti-meta pokemon in Doubles.

Malamar @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Hypnosis/Substitute

252 Atk Life Orb Malamar Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 213-252 (47.97 - 56.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Malamar Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 237-281 (53.37 - 63.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The set is the standard for Malamar, with one exception. With Life Orb, Malamar becomes much more powerful, allowing it to score powerful OHKOs and 2HKOs where it couldn't before. With attack boosts from Superpower and Intimidate, it can make a good lategame sweeper. Thoughts?

while im all for using calcs to justify your argument, try to make them more convincing. getting a 2HKO on no defense cresselia when you have a life orb boost and stab on night slash isn't too spectacular (especialy when you'd still need stealth rock to guarantee the 2HKO). not even sure why you're mentioning the after stealth rock part, almost no one uses the move in doubles. on the topic of your set, why not use protect in the last slot? it definitely has more utility than both hypnosis (an extremely shaky move that will probably cost you dearly when it missed) and substitute (a move that Malamar really can't take advantage of with only 73 base speed). meanwhile, due to its middling speed and such, protect would be pretty great on malamar. this is an example of a more convincing calc:

+1 252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Hitmontop: 346-408 (113.81 - 134.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO
thanks to its speed, it is able to outspeed even the fastest top variants, and after an intimidate it can OHKO the onsite support hitmontop, which is pretty sweet. malamar's bulk isn't phenomenal per se, but it's actually p. nice (86/88/75) so I'd say that the item on your set should be switched to expert belt to preserve some of that bulk. it still gets the KO on hitmontop even with the diferent item (+1 252 Atk Expert Belt (custom) Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Hitmontop: 319-377 (104.93 - 124.01%) -- guaranteed OHKO) so yeah.

it really wouldn't make a good lategame cleaner though, since it still only has 73 speed and no priority, so it wouldn't be hard to outspeed malamar and take it out, even after an attack boost from intimidate.

 

[Deoxymoron]

while im all for using calcs to justify your argument, try to make them more convincing. getting a 2HKO on no defense cresselia when you have a life orb boost and stab on night slash isn't too spectacular (especialy when you'd still need stealth rock to guarantee the 2HKO). not even sure why you're mentioning the after stealth rock part, almost no one uses the move in doubles. on the topic of your set, why not use protect in the last slot? it definitely has more utility than both hypnosis (an extremely shaky move that will probably cost you dearly when it missed) and substitute (a move that Malamar really can't take advantage of with only 73 base speed). meanwhile, due to its middling speed and such, protect would be pretty great on malamar. this is an example of a more convincing calc:

+1 252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Hitmontop: 346-408 (113.81 - 134.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO
thanks to its speed, it is able to outspeed even the fastest top variants, and after an intimidate it can OHKO the onsite support hitmontop, which is pretty sweet. malamar's bulk isn't phenomenal per se, but it's actually p. nice (86/88/75) so I'd say that the item on your set should be switched to expert belt to preserve some of that bulk. it still gets the KO on hitmontop even with the diferent item (+1 252 Atk Expert Belt (custom) Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Hitmontop: 319-377 (104.93 - 124.01%) -- guaranteed OHKO) so yeah.

it really wouldn't make a good lategame cleaner though, since it still only has 73 speed and no priority, so it wouldn't be hard to outspeed malamar and take it out, even after an attack boost from intimidate.

Ahh I forgot about Protect, thanks. And you're right, it's not the most amazing pokemon on the planet, but I think the ability to take Sticky Web, Intimidate, Parting Shot and Icy Wind and turn them into boosts makes it worth a slot. Also, part of what I think could make it useful is all the hype about Sticky Web, which leads me to assume it can get a +1 Speed boost pretty frequently.

 

[Nollan]

Also, part of what I think could make it useful is all the hype about Sticky Web, which leads me to assume it can get a +1 Speed boost pretty frequently.

In all fairness, Team Preview exists, so be sure to share some laughs with me when someone sees Malamar and uses Sticky Web anyway. :)

 

[MooseSmuggler]

Temptation, please link us to where Cresselia is referenced to be a Fairy-type and Knock Off power to be boosted. According to serebii, Cresselia isn't a Fairy-type. Also someobdy on the Battle Mechanics Research Thread has confirmed that Knock Off doesn't boost in power.

Apparently the person who originally posted the thing about Knock Off corrected themselves, and crossed out the original statement. I checked on a Sableye I caught as well, the move description does mention a power boost (its BP is also 65 now). But Cress isn't a Fairy type, far as I know. I was suspicious when that was mentioned.

Also, I saw someone mention it in the Shiny New Toys thread, and double-checked the Battle Mechanics thread: Oblivious now blocks the effects of Taunt, but not Torment and Encore. That could be beneficial to Slowbro/Slowking setting up Trick Room, for anyone inclined to use it.

 

[Pata Hikari]

Draglage has Adaptability.

It's going to be a monster.

0+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability (custom) Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Cresselia: 317-374 (140.88 - 166.22%) -- guaranteed OHKO

OHKOing the premiere bulky supporter in Doubles. Not even Dragon Gem Latios can do that.

It's speed is low enough that Trick Room just found a new wrecking ball.

 

[Mizuhime]

Draglage has Adaptability.

It's going to be a monster.

0+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability (custom) Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Cresselia: 317-374 (140.88 - 166.22%) -- guaranteed OHKO

OHKOing the premiere bulky supporter in Doubles. Not even Dragon Gem Latios can do that.

It's speed is low enough that Trick Room just found a new wrecking ball.

I really don't know where you got this calc from.
Draglage only has base 97 spec attack and with that from a positive nature and a dragon gem only does roughly 80% to 252/4 Cresselia
252+ SpA Dragon Gem Adaptability Draglage Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 328-386 (73.87 - 86.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

id also like to mention that we don't know 100% if Adaptability is Draglage's Hidden ability yet, it's more of being optimistic at this point

 

[TheMantyke]

id also like to mention that we don't know 100% if Adaptability is Draglage's Hidden ability yet, it's more of being optimistic at this point

Actually, to be more clear, we do know that Dragalge's hidden ability is Adaptability as it is used by opponents in the Battle Mansion (we have video proof that they do indeed have adaptability). The problem is that there isn't any way for players to get it at the moment. It's basically like last generation's unreleased dream world abilities.

 

[tofucocoa]

after playing a fair few games on randomwifi i have to say that i am very impressed with the megavolution mechanic. against higher end players i have to predict which mon is a mega (if there's 2+ megacapable mons), and pokemon like manectric and mawile can stand to not mega evolve until the time is right. i've even pulled some cool stunts with my mega aboma like resetting hail with megavolving or outspeeding a mon outside of tr the turn it goes up and underspeeding them with trick room. it really does add another factor to the game, but it'll take some getting used to. gonna have to breed a mawile so i can try that out like ive been wanting to do for the past few months...

 

[Pikachuun]

The string shot increasing your speed thing is blatant lies. I've been hit by it one too many times in-game, and it just lowers the target's peed by 2 stages instead of 1. Probably a typo in Serebii's part, but whatever.

 

[Nollan]

after playing a fair few games on randomwifi i have to say that i am very impressed with the megavolution mechanic. against higher end players i have to predict which mon is a mega (if there's 2+ megacapable mons), and pokemon like manectric and mawile can stand to not mega evolve until the time is right. i've even pulled some cool stunts with my mega aboma like resetting hail with megavolving or outspeeding a mon outside of tr the turn it goes up and underspeeding them with trick room. it really does add another factor to the game, but it'll take some getting used to. gonna have to breed a mawile so i can try that out like ive been wanting to do for the past few months...

This mechanic is something I've really enjoyed as well. I've also been trying 2 MegaEvos on one team, which means you can evolve one or the other during a battle for more flexibility (not both obv).

I've also really taken interest in Klefki when I dismissed it before, as access to priority Light Screen/Reflect can actually make it great for support, not to mention is still has some of the old classic Prankster moves in Swagger and Thunder Wave. Oh and Prankster Safeguard is nice, too.

 

[tofucocoa]

i think 2 megavolutions per team would work better in vgc/randomwifi because you only use 4 of your 6, which means you can just leave out one mega. it does sound interesting in doubles as well though, but some mons like ttar kinda need a defensive item and mons like mawile and banette need a megavolution to be viable, so that balance seems like it'll be hard to strike.

i like klefki, but i will admit the only reason i bred it was because i thought it could breed with mawile. probably gonna try it out though, if only because it's a mini thundurus in a game where there is no thundurus yet.

also, what kind of moveset do you guys think megawile should run? i was thinking along the lines of play rough/iron head/sucker punch/protect, but that seems like it would be easily walled. not sure if it gets any worthwhile fighting moves either...

 

[Nollan]

Yeah, Mawile unfortunately doesn't have very many options to combat Steel-types with. :(

At the moment, the best option for Steels is probably Brick Break (lol). Sucker Punch can still do a lot to Metagross though, so its probably about as effective. The only other possible moves for slot 3 that I can see accomplishing things are Taunt and Swords Dance, which aren't all that impressive anyway.

 

[cxinlee]

Does anyone realize how togekiss will wreck the entire metagame?

This bird is already annoying enough with Follow Me and Paraflinch, and has Tailwind for nice support.

Now it gets a fairy typing, so it now resists fighting and is immune to Dragon. Now Latios and Hydreigon can't spam Dragon Gem Draco Meteors, and Hitmontop can't Fighting Gem CC ( It gets Stone Edge, but
252+ Atk Hitmontop Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 148-176 (39.67 - 47.18%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)

Its weaknesses are Steel, Poison, Rock, and Electric, so it can pair up with an EQ spammer like Mamoswine to demolishing effect.

 

[BlankZero]

LandoT Excadrill + Togekiss

The end.

 

[Arcticblast]

Follow Me is now +2 priority, meaning it will no longer redirect Fake Outs (or faster Extremespeeds).

I think we angered the powers that be.

 

[vBlue]

Serebii says that Boomburst isn't blocked by Protect. Is this true for other similar abilities such as Mat Block? Should be simple to test but I don't have the resources. Would make Boomburst pretty huge in doubles.