DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

[ΩDonut]

Obi brought up the subject of Fire Fang hitting through Wonder Guard (that is, Fire Fang hits through something that has traced Wonder Guard, or has Wonder Guard hacked onto it). This was prompted by this Gfaqs thread.

Very oddly enough, after getting a wild Porygon to trace Wonder Guard, I discovered that Fire Fang DOES hit through Wonder Guard, but NOT other Fire moves such as Fire Blast!

I'll test to see if this works with the other Fangs as well.

EDIT: It appears this only works with Fire Fang.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

How about the other new Fire attacks like Flare Blitz?

 

[X-Act]

Lol. Maybe they were going to create a move that could hit through Wonder Guard, then decided against it and got replaced by Fire Fang... but left the code that it could hit through Wonder Guard for Fire Fang?

 

[Boa1891]

Lol. Maybe they were going to create a move that could hit through Wonder Guard, then decided against it and got replaced by Fire Fang... but left the code that it could hit through Wonder Guard for Fire Fang?

Thinking it wasn't necessary because Shedinja was hit SE by Fire Fang anyway. o_O That's a really odd occurence, anyone test in PBR?

 

[Slickee]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that Fire Fang is a physical attack and Fire Blast is special? Maybe test with Fire Punch as well, iuno...

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

Had a Garvevoir Trace Wonderguard on PBR. Slayed the Gardevoir with Fire Fang. Flare Blitz didn't work, just Fire Fang. I haven't tried Fire Punch or any other moves.

 

[ΩDonut]

Add Bide to the list of things that hits through Wonder Guard.

 

[Boa1891]

Add Bide to the list of things that hits through Wonder Guard.

Now THAT'S a good one, since it isn't SE on Shedinja.

I expect counter and mirror coat won't work, but I advise trying out Metal Burst. Never know...

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Just in case this wasn't known…

Sucker Punch will activate if the opponent is sleeping and tries to attack.

 

[X-Act]

Just did a small test. Unaware Bibarel is confirmed to ignore also the evasion modifier of the foe. Bibarel hit 1/1 times against a 2 DT Staravia with Water Gun, 3/3 times against a 3 DT Staravia and 2/2 times against a 4 DT Staravia. There's only a 1.378% chance that I could have done that by luck alone.

 

[Boa1891]

Sucker Punch will activate if the opponent is sleeping and tries to attack.

It's news to me, but I'm not surprised. Just like if an attacking move fails, the foe flinches, or they're fully paralyzed. Whether the attack is a success or not is not known until after Sucker Punch.

Funny enough, I believe it WON'T work against sleep talk. Lul.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

I remember some previous discussion about Crobat being unable to absorb Toxic Spikes. Well, Gengar doesn't absorb them either.

Also, I don't know how this worked on previous generations, but if you try to use Encore on a move that has just lost all of its PP, it will fail.

 

[Forsety]

I remember some previous discussion about Crobat being unable to absorb Toxic Spikes. Well, Gengar doesn't absorb them either.

Simple reason being the spikes have to effect them first to be absorbed.

In other words since Gengar and Crobat are immune to spikes to begin with then they can't absorb them.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I've tested some moves with Snatch.
Roost and Recover are Snatchable.

 

[ΩDonut]

I think we can pretty much assume that all 50% recovery moves (with the exception of Wish) are Snatchable.

 

[Blizzard1]

I don't know if this is considered evil to post here, but for stuff like Snatch, couldn't one reference Eevee/Veekun/whatever's database, which I believe was pulled from the game data?

http://veekun.com/dex/moves/roost
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/wish

Glancing at these, yes roost is snatchable, no wish isn't snatchable. I believe snatch is just a flag in the database.

 

[Boa1891]

I think most people just checked Serebii, where it was also pulled from the game, but serebii has no snatch tag on there. Serenuubs.

 

[Blizzard1]

I am most certainly NOT a Serebii basher, but I think their pulled-from-game data may be inaccurate in some cases.

In the Veekun site case, I've discovered incorrect descriptions (I'm almost certain that Blizzard is 100% accurate, NOT 100% freeze in Hail :p), but it's a downloadable SQL database with game-ripped data, and I haven't found invalid non-description data yet. ...well, some stuff regarding flags may not be right, particularly accuracy, which I'm still trying to figure out. It may be one or two flags involving that aren't known/there.

It says lots of moves are "affected by accuracy", but swift is one of them...and Heart Swap is one of them, yet Heart Swap targets the ENEMY and has "0%" accuracy.

 

[Blizzard1]

On the previous note, assuming the database is correct (both Eevee's database and Serebii says Trump Card has 0 accuracy, for instance), here are the moves with "0%" accuracy:


Protect has 0 accuracy.
Pain Split has 0 accuracy.
Rain Dance has 0 accuracy.
Sunny Day has 0 accuracy.
Nature Power has 0 accuracy.
Lucky Chant has 0 accuracy.
Copycat has 0 accuracy.
Me First has 0 accuracy.
Trump Card has 0 accuracy.
Power Trick has 0 accuracy.
Gravity has 0 accuracy.
Miracle Eye has 0 accuracy.
Roost has 0 accuracy.
Tailwind has 0 accuracy.
Acupressure has 0 accuracy.
Healing Wish has 0 accuracy.
Magnet Rise has 0 accuracy.
Aqua Ring has 0 accuracy.
Rock Polish has 0 accuracy.
Aura Sphere has 0 accuracy.
Guard Swap has 0 accuracy.
Power Swap has 0 accuracy.
Heart Swap has 0 accuracy.
Toxic Spikes has 0 accuracy.
Magnet Bomb has 0 accuracy.
Stealth Rock has 0 accuracy.
Defog has 0 accuracy.
Trick Room has 0 accuracy.
Nasty Plot has 0 accuracy.
Lunar Dance has 0 accuracy.
Heal Order has 0 accuracy.
Defend Order has 0 accuracy.

Does anyone have an explanation for some of these, like trump card and heart swap? Other than those and maybe one or two more, I assume everything on the list here should hit 100% of the time.

 

[Izkuru]

It looks to me that any moves that "can't miss" or have some other effect (like changing the weather or boosting your own stats) have their accuracy listed in those databases as 0.

If I recall correctly, these moves have their accuracy listed as "---" in game, and using a 0 for them in their databases makes sense (to me, at least).

 

[Blizzard1]

So does that mean that trump card and heart swap can't miss the enemy?

 

[Synecdoche]

Yes, Trump Card cannot miss against a 6x DT'd Pokemon, nor can it miss if you have 6x Sand attack and they have 6x DT. It is literally a trump card. :]

 

[Blizzard1]

Sweet, I guess Heart Swap etc. must work the same way.

 

[X-Act]

Regarding moves that can't miss, there are certain moves that could miss in ADV but that can't anymore in DP. These include Foresight and Yawn. I'll find the list that TRE once posted of these moves.

EDIT:

There are 8 new attacks that never miss your target:

Miracle Eye, Trump Card, Power Swap, Guard Swap, Heart Swap, Defog, Aura Sphere and Magnet Bomb.

I just briefly skimmed through the list of attack. The following attacks have changed so they never miss:

Spider Web, Mean Look, Block, Mind Reader, Lock-on, Foresight, Odor Sleuth, Pain Split, Yawn, Role Play, Skill Swap, Struggle

The above were posted in the DT/Minimize thread, for the record. This one, to be precise.

Also, TRE probably meant moves that target the opponent. All moves that target yourself have 100% accuracy, so Nasty Plot, Power Trick, etc. are obvious.

 

[daksunt]

Regarding moves that can't miss, there are certain moves that could miss in ADV but that can't anymore in DP. These include Foresight and Yawn. I'll find the list that TRE once posted of these moves.

EDIT:


The above were posted in the DT/Minimize thread, for the record.

What about fly and dive. I don't think magent bomb will be affecting a flying charizard eventhough who would use it against a charizard. For other moves that affect the pokeitself or weather or field guarantee hit.