Duo Destruction - Awards!

[blarajan]

STOP USING HONKO'S DAMAGE CALCULATOR FOR LITTLE CUP DAMAGE OUTPUTS. IT DOES NOT DO THEM CORRECTLY. USE THE MASARA DAMAGE CALCULATOR INSTEAD. IT IS ACTUALLY ACCURATE.

watch the caps

watch your mom

 

[Rowan]

STOP USING HONKO'S DAMAGE CALCULATOR FOR LITTLE CUP DAMAGE OUTPUTS. IT DOES NOT DO THEM CORRECTLY. USE THE MASARA DAMAGE CALCULATOR INSTEAD. IT IS ACTUALLY ACCURATE.

Apparently I have to download some random thing to use Masara's. I really can't be bothered right now. I just did all my calc's on Honko's and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made that much difference.

 

[blarajan]

For the purpose of Duo Destruction, Honko's is frequently off by 1. That is actually problematic for this.

 

[iss]

Hey can we actually talk to Honko about this? Because Masara's is a pain to use for LC.

 

[blarajan]

Already have.

 

[Ray Jay]

This round will end on Wednesday, at 11 59 est! Good luck competitors keep up the discussion

 

[prem]

yall need to use slipperjeans spread sheet (found somewhere in the other metagames thread i believe). its the best calc

 

[Elevator Music]

Nanoswine, sadly Drain Punch+Sleep Talk is an illegal move combination, as Drain Punch is a move that Croagunk can only get through breeding this gen, and Sleep Talk is a TM exclusive to last gen :(

idk I might edit in a pokemon

 

[Nanoswine]

Nanoswine, sadly Drain Punch+Sleep Talk is an illegal move combination, as Drain Punch is a move that Croagunk can only get through breeding this gen, and Sleep Talk is a TM exclusive to last gen :(

idk I might edit in a pokemon

Oh noooo

Well, it still works if Gunk can't Sleep Talk since Mienfoo's chance of a 3HKO is negligible, so

Croagunk (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef / 36 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Protect
- Rest

Now Croagunk can use Protect both to help wear down Mienfoo and also to potentially avoid Stunky's Explosion. The only situation in which Gunk is forced to rest is after switching in on an Explosion from Stunky, so missing out on Sleep Talk isn't really a big deal!

It does make this set more of a situational counter to the core than a viable set that can take it on though :<

 

[Ray Jay]

It does make this set more of a situational counter to the core than a viable set that can take it on though :<

This is something I want to bring up. As we continue Duo Destruction, we essentially have a choice and I want you guys to be involved with it. Are we looking for a "I have 5 Pokemon on my team already and I need to counter this one core with one slot, and thus a situational set is OK" or are we looking for "this set is viable always in today's metagame, if it's not I shouldn't get points"?

 

[Heysup]

Either way it's going to be subjective basically to what you think Ray Jay. I think you should just specify whether it's OK to have something, for example, essentially "set up bait for every single common Pokemon" but still counters OR if it needs to be a semi-functioning set in the metagame that stops set up and does it's job in other situations as well. I've been doing the latter as much as I can (hence Curse over Amnesia).

 

[blarajan]

This is something I want to bring up. As we continue Duo Destruction, we essentially have a choice and I want you guys to be involved with it. Are we looking for a "I have 5 Pokemon on my team already and I need to counter this one core with one slot, and thus a situational set is OK" or are we looking for "this set is viable always in today's metagame, if it's not I shouldn't get points"?

Ray Jay held me at gunpoint and forced me to respond to this, so here I am. While I gave very few fucks that Snover round, I personally think this is only a useful assignment if we post cores that actually have some relative use outside of the assigned. That's what I did with my first two cores, Frillish / Misdreavus and Magnemite / Shelmet...the pairs worked together to check much of the rest of the metagame as well. I just gave no fucks Round 3, but this last one, while I posted Curse Grimer, which isn't great...I didn't really cater it to this pair. Things like (sorry Chieliee) Defense Curl Foongus, or even Crolax (while you were okay with it, Heysup, I think Crolax is an incredibly stupid suggestion when taking the rest of the metagame into account).

But at the end of the day, at least Heysup's Crolax isn't catered to that set...it has its other uses, I guess. Defense Curl Foongus, on the other hand, is ridiculous. I think if we want any value out of this activity whatsoever, we should be focusing on exploring new Pokemon to counter the core by maybe deviating from their standard niches. However, I do not think we should post ridiculous shit to counter the core in a vacuum. That makes this a dumb activity.

 

[iss]

It's painfully obvious when a set crosses the line of usability. I think we can all tell when that happens.

 

[Ray Jay]

Heysup - Hippopotas

If Hippopotas gets Knocked Off, I could see some problems. Turn 1 against Mienfoo, you obviously Protect. As you see the Knock Off, you should go for Curse, otherwise you'll probably be 2HKOed by Stunky Crunch. Obviously, if you aren't aware that it's a Choice Scarf Mienfoo, you probably wouldn't Protect turn 1, but then again if you weren't combatting Choice Scarf Mienfoo you wouldn't be using Protect. As two Curses almost guarantee the win against these Pokemon, even if you're Knocked Off, Hippopotas gets 2 points.

iss - Koffing

Although this set is complete Taunt bait and could be seen as slightly impractical, I'm OK with it because it's not like Koffing has a whole mess of other options anyways so I could see an argument saying Clear Smog is less viable than Stockpile. Although it would take a while, I can't see the core beating this Pokemon. Koffing gets 2 points.

Nanoswine - Croagunk

My concern comes from the fact that if Mienfoo Knocks Off, you basically have to Bulk Up. This means you really aren't capable of stalling out Mienfoo for a few turns, opening you up to a crit. Worst scenario would be you get Knocked Off earlier and then switch into an Explosion, meaning you wouldn't actually win as I believe Mienfoo could KO whatever +0 Evioliteless Croagunk has after eating an Explosion. For this reason you have to be pretty cautious early game with this set; keep in mind Croagunk without Eviolite won't be able to stay alive while Resting as much as he would like to. In terms of just the core, however, I can definitely see it working, and since it can effortlessly switch into Mienfoo or Stunky as long as it doesn't stupidly lose its Eviolite, you get 2 points.

Dracoyoshi8 - Ekans + Cranidos

You beat the core with such a nice color scheme? You should get 6 points. Unfortunately, due to the rules, you get 1 point.

In all seriousness, Ekans does its job against this core quite well, and has the potential to walk over them unless Stunky carefully and perfectly times an Explosion. Even if it does, Cranidos will be able to put it on lock, as the kids say, so I'm not incredibly concerned there. Intimidate also helps even more. 1 point.

blarajan - Grimer

Ugh, another person getting points this round. Due to Sticky Hold, you have the potential to eat Stunky Explosion all day so long as you don't play like iss. Fire Punch is mad style points. You proved the chances of you losing are abysmally low, so 2 points.

chieliee - Foongus

While using Defense Curl is something I don't even condone in-game, I'm OK with this I guess. Basically, it's a good way to make up for Knock Off. The one thing you didn't take into account is weather. Although I didn't say it specifically, it's quite a possibility that the weather is not clear, meaning stalling out with Synthesis is not quite always possible. This is probably going to be made up with hax from Effect Spore, but then again, maybe not. As I didn't say to assume weather conditions, you get 2 points.

corkscrew - Timburr + Misdreavus

Your format was convincing enough. Timburr beats Stunky easily enough that Misdreavus can proceed to wreck Mienfoo, and vice versa. Obviously the worst thing would be switching Misdreavus into a Knock Off, as then I could see Stunky causing problems (of course, you would get a free Will-O-Wisp as Stunky switches in). I'm a bit confused on this:

Turn 3: Switch in Timburr and Bulk Up. Stunky uses Explosion. (Timburr 20/27, Stunky 0/24)

Doesn't Stunky outspeed Timburr?
Anyways, such a situation would happen only 1/16 of the time, so I can't see you getting in that much of a pickle anyways, and you still have a good chance to beat Mienfoo. 1 point.

Bonus points:
Ekans, Ekans: Dracoyoshi8 (+1)
Persnickety about Calculators: blarajan (-70, +71)

New scoreboard:
iss: 7 (+2)
blarajan: 6 (+3)
chieliee: 5 (+2)
Heysup: 4 (+2)
elevator_music: 3
Dracoyoshi8: 3 (+2)
corkscrew: 3 (+1)
Nanoswine: 3 (+2)
spuds4ever: 2
trakyan: 1

 

[Ray Jay]

Trio Trample

Bonus round let's get it?

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Impish | Sand Stream
evs: 52 HP / 100 Atk / 212 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Drilbur @ Life Orb
Adamant | Sand Rush
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

Timburr @ Eviolite
Careful | Guts
evs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 SpD
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Payback

Rules:
-Still only 1 or 2 Pokemon in your post.
-This round, assume Stealth Rock and passive weather damage for obvious reasons.
-Don't assume you have Stealth Rock up unless you include someone who can set it up.
-For this round, no Bronzor. He's stupid.

 

[Rowan]

I'm a bit confused on this:

Turn 3: Switch in Timburr and Bulk Up. Stunky uses Explosion. (Timburr 20/27, Stunky 0/24)

Doesn't Stunky outspeed Timburr?

Misdreavus would have burnt Stunky. Stunky's explosion with a burn does a max of 6HP +1 HP for Stealth Rock leaves Timburr with 20.

 

[Furai]

reserving slowpoke + shroomish

 

[Ray Jay]

Misdreavus would have burnt Stunky. Stunky's explosion with a burn does a max of 6HP +1 HP for Stealth Rock leaves Timburr with 20.

Understood!

 

[Rowan]

Reserving Wooper
(probably can't do it on it's own so it might end up with a partner)

EDIT: Are we assuming it's a last mon situation? Because if I post one pokemon then surely Hippopotas can't roar...

 

[Nanoswine]

I've got Koffing.

EDIT: And Turtwig. Switching in on LO Drilbur 100% of the time, more than once in the match...yeesh

 

[blarajan]

chiku chiku

rita

 

[iss]

frillish or cotonee for now

 

[Chieliee]

Exeggcute (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Def / 232 SAtk / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Sunny Day

Snover (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 36 HP / 24 Atk / 36 Def / 184 SAtk / 200 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Ice Shard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

grass types too strongth

i'll edit in description some day, not now

basicly snover is there to make sure drilbur doesn't get to +2 and then eggy does the rest

 

[Heysup]

5000 posts of fun

Legendary Duo Destruction MVP Hippopotas @ Eviolite
EVs: 212 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Curse

Totodile (M) @ Life Orb (Choice Band always OHKOes, but I mean, this is a better set)
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 52 SDef / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Return
- Swords Dance

Summary: Obviously Slack Off + Curse beets every single Pokemon listed, however, switching into Drilbur is a bit sketchy.

If Drilbur is in:

LO EQ:

Possible HP Damage: 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13

After Curse:

Possible HP Damage: 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9

(0% chance to 2HKO)

Swords Danced vs +0 Hippo:

Possible HP Damage: 21, 21, 21, 21, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24

Swords Danced vs + 1 Hippo:

Possible HP Damage: 13, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16 (So this + Drain Punch does NOT KO ever)

Hippo Earthquake vs Drilbur:

Possible HP Damage: 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19 (OHKO after Toxic / LO)

+1 EQ vs Drilbur:

Possible HP Damage: 22, 22, 22, 22, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 27 (75% OHKO, 100% if LO, Toxic, or SR)

Ok so this fucker only has a 10.1% chance to 2HKO if he uses Earthquake and then I can just Slack Off 5 times to get out of Drain Punch range and Earthquake him. Swords Dance is his best move against Hippopotas switching in and if he does I would technically lose to Mach Punch.

So I guess I'll use a partner. The partner needs to not allow Drilbur to set up on it or get to +2 and beat it on the switch.

+0 Aqua Jet vs Drilbur:
Possible HP Damage: 21, 21, 21, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 27, 27 (81.25% chance to OHKO, 100% with Life Orb or Toxic). Choice Band would 100% OHKO here but I'm using a better set in the spirit of this competition.

If I switch into Earthquake, I die. If I switch into Swords Dance or any other move I beat him with Aqua Jet (LO takes the other 2 HP if I roll minimum and don't KO). Worst case scenario, I switch into EQ and die. I go to Hippopotas and Curse and win.

If Timburr is in:

Drain Punch does 6 (1/16 chance to do 7, but that doesn't even matter)
Drain Punch vs +1 Hipo: 4 (1/16 to do 6)
Guts boosted: Possible HP Damage: 7, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10

I switch to Hippopotas, I Curse up and win if he stays in (EQ 3-4HKOes and Drain Punch 5HKOes but I have Slack Off). If he switches out to Drilbur he can't even come close to KOing me after the Curse and I'll OHKO him and Slack Off the turn after. The only Pokemon that can take Hippopotas at all is the opposing Hippopotas who can only Roar me out but lose to Toxic. If he predicts and switches to timburr eat the Toxic it doesn't matter (see calc above).

If Hippopotas is in:

Hippo EQ vs totodile.

Possible HP Damage: 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18

I switch to Totodile take a shit load of damage (into Torrent range :D) and fucking RAPES Hippopotas (33 minimum damage). If Timburr switches in it takes it in the balls (24 minimum + SS KOes). Obviously Drilbur dies too. If he sacs Hippo or Drilbur to bring in Timburr to revenge kill with Mach Punch, Aqua Jet still does 12 minimum to Timburr and Hippopotas clearly doesn't even need that support to beat Timburr anyway, but it makes it that much easier.

100% countered.

 

[Ray Jay]

EDIT: Are we assuming it's a last mon situation? Because if I post one pokemon then surely Hippopotas can't roar...

Don't assume something that gives you an innate advantage.