Electivirus - Stronger Than Swine Flu

[Yagami Light]

I am sure that we are all aware of the purpose of Electivire. Electivire is a Pokemon who is supposed to come in on an Electric type move, gain a +1 speed boost and then rip the enemy team to pieces using a plethora of moves that strike the opponents for super effective damage. At +1 speed in addition to an Expert Belt/Life Orb as well as fearsome attacking stats Electivire should be a massive threat, should it not?

Well, not exactly. Electivire has a critical flaw that it has trouble getting around via conventional "attack until their HP is 0" methods. It is not capable of felling many non-steel walls. Several Pokemon such as Swampert, Rotom-A and Latias (to name a few diverse ones) really have no trouble switching in on Electivire and telling it to go home. Aside from random Hidden Powers (which limit Electivire in other ways) it has generally been accepted that Electivire may as well just go back into its Pokeball after being blocked by one of the aforementioned Pokemon.

Until now, that is. Electivire has exactly ONE move that will allow it to beat every wall the walls that it encounters. The move? Toxic. Introducing, Electivirus:

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Mild Nature
36 Atk / 252 Sp. Atk / 220 Speed

Toxic
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Cross Chop

Looks pretty similar to MixVire, no? Well, it pretty much IS MixVire except for one huge difference: Electivirus is sporting a fancy new move in Toxic to fell foes. Toxic ruins essentially all of the common switch ins to Electivirus. Consider the following scenario:

Electivirus switches in on an Electric move or switches in in another fashion.
Opponent sends out Swampert / Rotom-A to stop Electivirus.
Opponent is poisoned.

After this the opponent simply loses most, if not all, of their defensive ability. If the enemy attempts to attack Electivirus (it might!) then they'll begin taking fairly heavy poison damage that will only pile up. They cannot continue to switch in on Electivire or any Pokemon that you have, for that matter. They are out of the running unless they are a Restalking varient (in which case this buys you a lot of time for the rest of your team) or the enemy team has a cleric (which STILL buys your team a lot of time). That's the worst case scenario. The most likely case is that they DO NOT have a healing method and they just lost a wall. In addition, Electivirus is probably going to have a field day with the rest of the team's walls and is also going to be a valuable asset in other, fairly obvious, ways.

It's really not a difficult concept (Pokemon uses Status move to cripple Switch-In!) but this is the set that Electivire needs to function properly in the standard metagame. Too often is it the case that Electivire comes in, looks intimidating and then just fizzles out as he realizes that the enemy team has one of his all too common counters. Electivirus hopes to revolutionize this, forcing common enemy Pokemon such as Swampert and Rotom to lose much of their walling capability and later setting up for a sweep by itself. Normally Toxic would simply not be enough to fell team walls (due to how common steels are) but Electivire is interesting in a sense that Steels cannot counter it due to Flamethrower, Thunderbolt and Cross Chop. Add to this the fact that common Poison Pokemon are either a) weak to the attacking moves (Roserade, Tentacruel and Crobat) or are just weak defensively in general (Gengar) and you have a solid concept that has, to me at least, proven itself to be a worthy team slot if the need arises.

I should, however, stop typing so much and let you guys voice your opinions on what you think of Electivirus. Before I do that, however, I'm going to thank Colonel_M and Aldaron for their inputs on the set as this is a team effort, haha. I must also thank macle for providing an amazing picture for this topic.

Well then, your thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[IcyMan28]

It seems like it would work well by crippling the typical switchins - much like Toxic on Aggron would screw over Swampert, or Toxic on X sweeper would cripple one of its walls. Wouldn't this go in the creative moveset thread, though?

 

[Justinawe]

Haha oh man dude, it's kind of funny that you made this set, right around the end of CCAT #2. I think we know what CCAT #3 will be now. xD

Anyways, I find it to be an interesting set, as it takes care of its counters well. The onl problem I see is Heal Bell.

 

[Warped Worlds]

It is quite viable imo, even if you lose coverage.

 

[mtr]

Why not try fitting in Substitute somewhere to ease the prediction involved. Granted, health loss isn't fun, but it would be helpful for the aforementioned purpose, which alone could warrant it.

 

[RBG]

There is a thread dedicated to new movesets. Please post it there.

Or make a thread in C&C for this.

 

[RBG]

OK, so apparently I viewed the rules too literally. This thread will generate good discussion. As long as a thread as well made, without being overly critical of others, it should be allowed to stay open.

 

[Despotar]

Toxic will ruin most counters,
good idea!

 

[Jonathan]

Ugh, I had typed up a long response last night about why this isn't a good set IMO, but the thread was closed before I could submit it. Let's try again.

Basically, one of Electivire's big problems, aside from the obvious one's you've mentioned, is that once your opponent uses an Electric attack once and you switch Electivire in for free, your opponent will be very wary about using Electric attacks until Electivire is taken out. Trust me I know from using Lanturn :) And apart from Electric attacks there's not much you can come in on. So sure maybe you Toxic something, but really you've wasted the +1 Speed boost and you don't even plan to sweep. There are better Pokes to come in and randomly Toxic something, Pokemon who can actually take a hit for instance. Electivire is best used at the end of a game to clean up, and you really need four attack moves for that (if you ever want to use him in the first place). Also there's so much shit in Standard that can stop Electivire that your opponent will likely have more than one Pokemon that can stop Electivire, and only an idiot will fall for the same trick twice.

But the overall idea, while not revolutionary, is definitely something that should be considered more often. But for different Pokemon. Toxic on something like Scizor could work very well for instance I think. It completely screws all the usual switch-ins apart from Heatran and Magnezone, and with defensive EVs, Roost, and Scizor's resistances, you definitely have the longevity to eventually stall your opponent out, something Electivire could definitely not do.

 

[Zeromus EG]

Excellent idea, though I'd say bring a Pursuit user with you or Refresh Latias laughs at you. It would also help with any RestTalk Cresselia too. I know these aren't exactly common occurences (With Refresh not even being on Latias' common moves and Cress being #45 on the OU list), but I guess it shows that Toxic really helps Electivire :D (and how hard is it to fit Scizor on a team these days anyway :D)

Good stuff.

 

[_Flygon_]

It is a good idea, but i agree with Jonathan and say that the problem is that Elevire often just gets one chance to sweep, without it's Motor Drive boost its simply to slow. And you won't get this boost twice against a good player.

 

[Raikaria]

Maybe, but think about it:

Someone has DDGyarados and Electrivire, and, for argument's sake, SD Lucario.

Gyarados draws in Electric attacks most. If you leave it unchecked, it will sweep.

Electric user comes in and T-Bolts.

Vire absorbs it.

Swampert comes in and takes a large hit as it does so, or gets Toxiced.

Let's say Toxic happened.

Gyarados comes back in. Swampert has to leave, as it used EQ to try and end 'Vire's sweep. (Or other attack that did LOL damage)

This time, because of 'Vire, and a crippled Swampert, they send in a Rock-type user. Scarfgon, for this example. (Outspeeds +1 Gyarados)

SD Lucario comes in on Stone Edge, a nice x4 resist.

Swampert, also used as a Luke counter, is now unable to counter, due to prior damage (Entry Hazards, and any past switch-ins) and Poision (2 turns of it, 3 if it switchs in on Luke). Lucario SD's as Flygon switches, and sweeps through a large part of the team (Until Flygon revenges it, even then, prior damage may stop that, due to +2 ESpeed)

Electrvire may not have swept, but it did two important things:
1: Weakned Swampert so it couldn't counter Lucario
2: Forced a Rock-type attack to be used to kill Gyarados, and hence, gave Lucario a free-switch in to sweep.

I hate how people often underestimate Electrivire, and regard it as awful, when in reality, it's not. If it was, it wouldn;t be OU anymore, like the Hyped Rhyperior has fallen to UU. So what if it gets walled, and needs Motor Drive to sweep? Team Support brought by that threat helps a lot. (Not to mention, late game, weakned counters... 'Vire can feasably sweep like mad)

 

[A.P.]

THe problem is, most people view Electivire as the sweeper that needs team support, not the team support for a sweeper - though it can be a back-up.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Putting toxic on a sweeper isnt exactly a new idea; Heracross and Garchomp are a good example.

 

[A.P.]

It's still an uncommon idea, seeing as neither of them were uber-hyped (HA! Get it? Uber?) with Toxic. To most people, I'm going to guess this comes as an intriguing, and possibly effective novelty.

And it's interesting, seeing as it's led to putting Toxic on other offensive Pokémon like Scizor (bad idea, Heatran and Maggy switch in way too often).

 

[LoveDensity]

Honestly, I don't think it would work all the time. I put Toxic on Rotom-A on my World Cup/Ultimate Cup, but it works in very marginal situations where I only use it to draw Blissey and stuff in for Scizor to trap it with Pursuit. Electivire draws in Swampert, Hippowdon, etc, but so does Rotom-A. The only counters that would care about the Toxic is probably Hippowdon. Swampert is there for a turn, but then plays the phazing game. Heck, I rather put HP Grass in place of Toxic to stop Swampert. Unfortunately Electivire suffers from moveslot syndrome and wishes to has HP Grass and HP Ice, etc.. together. In a fast paced metagame we have now, Toxic won't make much of a difference unless you focus your team on Toxic support. But Roserade is there for that, who also does well to hinder Swampert, T-Tar, Hippowdon, etc.

Electivire will always be considered too "average" to be successful and that is why his usage should stay where it is.

 

[Jonathan]

Maybe, but think about it:

Someone has DDGyarados and Electrivire, and, for argument's sake, SD Lucario.

Gyarados draws in Electric attacks most. If you leave it unchecked, it will sweep.

Electric user comes in and T-Bolts.

Vire absorbs it.

Swampert comes in and takes a large hit as it does so, or gets Toxiced.

Let's say Toxic happened.

Gyarados comes back in. Swampert has to leave, as it used EQ to try and end 'Vire's sweep. (Or other attack that did LOL damage)

This time, because of 'Vire, and a crippled Swampert, they send in a Rock-type user. Scarfgon, for this example. (Outspeeds +1 Gyarados)

SD Lucario comes in on Stone Edge, a nice x4 resist.

Swampert, also used as a Luke counter, is now unable to counter, due to prior damage (Entry Hazards, and any past switch-ins) and Poision (2 turns of it, 3 if it switchs in on Luke). Lucario SD's as Flygon switches, and sweeps through a large part of the team (Until Flygon revenges it, even then, prior damage may stop that, due to +2 ESpeed)

Electrvire may not have swept, but it did two important things:
1: Weakned Swampert so it couldn't counter Lucario
Or you could just have run HP Grass and killed Swampert, and your Lucario could have swept anyway
2: Forced a Rock-type attack to be used to kill Gyarados, and hence, gave Lucario a free-switch in to sweep.
You want to play this retarded game? How about I say the rest of my team consists of Gengar, Gliscor, Weezing, etc. etc. you see my point. What does your Luario do now? You can't create random scenarios with 435675 assumptions in place to make a point.

I hate how people often underestimate Electrivire, and regard it as awful, when in reality, it's not. If it was, it wouldn;t be OU anymore, like the Hyped Rhyperior has fallen to UU. So what if it gets walled, and needs Motor Drive to sweep? Team Support brought by that threat helps a lot. (Not to mention, late game, weakned counters... 'Vire can feasably sweep like mad)

 

[Kagamin]

Jonathan Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria
Maybe, but think about it:

Someone has DDGyarados and Electrivire, and, for argument's sake, SD Lucario.

Gyarados draws in Electric attacks most. If you leave it unchecked, it will sweep.

Electric user comes in and T-Bolts.

Vire absorbs it.

Swampert comes in and takes a large hit as it does so, or gets Toxiced.

Let's say Toxic happened.

Gyarados comes back in. Swampert has to leave, as it used EQ to try and end 'Vire's sweep. (Or other attack that did LOL damage)

This time, because of 'Vire, and a crippled Swampert, they send in a Rock-type user. Scarfgon, for this example. (Outspeeds +1 Gyarados)

SD Lucario comes in on Stone Edge, a nice x4 resist.

Swampert, also used as a Luke counter, is now unable to counter, due to prior damage (Entry Hazards, and any past switch-ins) and Poision (2 turns of it, 3 if it switchs in on Luke). Lucario SD's as Flygon switches, and sweeps through a large part of the team (Until Flygon revenges it, even then, prior damage may stop that, due to +2 ESpeed)

Electrvire may not have swept, but it did two important things:
1: Weakned Swampert so it couldn't counter Lucario
Or you could just have run HP Grass and killed Swampert, and your Lucario could have swept anyway
2: Forced a Rock-type attack to be used to kill Gyarados, and hence, gave Lucario a free-switch in to sweep.
You want to play this retarded game? How about I say the rest of my team consists of Gengar, Gliscor, Weezing, etc. etc. you see my point. What does your Luario do now? You can't create random scenarios with 435675 assumptions in place to make a point.

I hate how people often underestimate Electrivire, and regard it as awful, when in reality, it's not. If it was, it wouldn;t be OU anymore, like the Hyped Rhyperior has fallen to UU. So what if it gets walled, and needs Motor Drive to sweep? Team Support brought by that threat helps a lot. (Not to mention, late game, weakned counters... 'Vire can feasably sweep like mad)

But with HP grass, you won't be able to do anything to Rotom which often walls Electrvire.

and this isn't a 'retarded' point that he makes when he cripples his opponent's pokemon as a possibility for a easier late game. It's about as 'retarded' as Sub-Charge Lanturn (Both are very niche, not 'retarded')

 

[LoveDensity]

But with HP grass, you won't be able to do anything to Rotom which often walls Electrvire.

Rotom-A doesn't care about Toxic either. Scarf/Specs can care less about Toxic. It will have already done its job if it trick its item to something favorable or hinder/revenge threats like Gyarados and Latias. Other variants of Rotom like RestTalk could care less about Toxic and does one of the best jobs to beat Electivire. The only set that is really hindered by Toxic is SubCharge Rotom.

 

[Jonathan]

But with HP grass, you won't be able to do anything to Rotom which often walls Electrvire.

and this isn't a 'retarded' point that he makes when he cripples his opponent's pokemon as a possibility for a easier late game. It's about as 'retarded' as Sub-Charge Lanturn (Both are very niche, not 'retarded')

Okay I wasn't going to respond until you mentioned Lanturn, but you completely missed my point and are now insulting my set for no reason. Sure it shows how Electivire helps Lucario set up and sweep, but it's about the most artificial example I've ever seen posted. You can't just assume what half the Pokemon in the match are, what their sets and spreads are, whether or not Swampert "took prior damage from SR and residual damage," and use that as an example of how Electivire with Toxic would work. Ever heard of theorymon? This is that. Ever heard of actual battle experience and not pulling things out of your ass? Check out my signature.

 

[Colonel M]

Instead of people seriously criticizing this set, perhaps they should actually test it.

See, the problem is your mindset is set on "Electivire can only be a sweeper and nothing else". Toxic may seem like an awkward option, but think about it. Aside from Swampert, what the flying fuck would you use Hidden Power Grass for? Tyranitar was barely 2HKOing with Ice Beam against Hippowdon, so I'm pretty sure HP Grass isn't going to do that either. This set's goal is to act as two things. The first is as a lure. Think of Pokemon that commonly switch into it and that's why you'd attempt to Toxic the Pokemon. Many of these Pokemon don't carry RestTalk (Swampert is a rarity), Blissey is fearing this move called Cross Chop, I highly doubt Steels are going to switch into either STAB Thunderbolt or Flamethrower, etc.

Trust me, when Light was theorizing the set I thought it was a little wonky myself, but after thinking about it more and more it made a whole lot of sense. In response to those that say "oh, but Rotom-A doesn't mind Toxic!", that's only the case for those that use RestTalk. Scarf users still hate it (the possibility of Sandstorm hinders them even more, and Stealth Rock damage adds up quickly). And for slapping Toxic on Rotom-A... let's not get too ridiculous on that either since Blissey still has Natural Cure to begin with and would switch into Rotom-A other than Trick.

I know I'm a person to introduce something and it seems "awkward" and such (see: Su(b)perior, Special Mixed Flygon, etc.), but this idea is far from crazy. If anything, it's Electivire's best set.

like the Hyped Rhyperior has fallen to UU.

I wasn't holy hell hyping this. I was simply showing advantages that Rhyperior had back then, and yes I find it underestimated by some.

 

[akarias]

I think the problem people are having as said before is that electivire very rarely gets switched in more than once, and without the boost he's simply too useless. So basically you're saccing 1 poke to toxic 1 pokemon, which may or may not work. Besides, 1/2 the time (swampert, hippo) toxic spikes would work just as well, and there are better rotom counters.

That being said, this is also just theorymon. This DOES work to poison swampert, latias, and rotom, since they undoubtedly would switch in very often. It's just if that one use is worth a slot (especially since they'd force 'vire out).

 

[LoveDensity]

In response to those that say "oh, but Rotom-A doesn't mind Toxic!", that's only the case for those that use RestTalk. Scarf users still hate it (the possibility of Sandstorm hinders them even more, and Stealth Rock damage adds up quickly). And for slapping Toxic on Rotom-A... let's not get too ridiculous on that either since Blissey still has Natural Cure to begin with and would switch into Rotom-A other than Trick.

Please.. Although SR+Sandstream does hurt it, but rarely have my teams with Choice items been dramatically hurt because my Rotom-A has been poisoned. My Choiced Rotom-A could care less about Toxic. If my team can pick up the slack while Rotom-A is Toxic, then I will be alright. Choiced Rotom-A is mostly placed on Heavy Offense teams anyways who care less about Toxic who comes in to hit hard or set up one turn and then use the opposing team to hit hard.

Also please read my statement of my example with Rotom-A. It is my own experience which has worked well in a particular match(*COUGH* IPL vs LD Semifinals Ultimate Cup.) I stated that I Toxic Blissey, only so I can trap it with Pursuit with Scizor.. If Blissey isn't dead by switching out of Pursuit, it is probably damaged enough where it can't switch in that often.

 

[Raikaria]

Colonel, I never said you hyped Rhypeior, but is was hyped at the start of D/P, and, as a result, had high useage. Now, is rocketed down.

As for my example, Jonathan, that's wat it is... an EXAMPLE. Remember, that you have 3 other team members as well. Odds are, a team centered around a Lucario sweep would have something to take on Gengar, Gliscor, ect. It still manages to show how this set may not sweep, but force it to a physical wall to be brought out to counter it, and be crippled by Toxic.

It seems as if people are doing as they do often, and complaining about E-Vire without testing him, convinced that he's rubbish because he gets walled by some things. This helps him beat said walls.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I used a similar set, but with Jolteon:
Jolteon @ Leftovers, Timid, Max/Max
-Tbolt
-HP Ice
-Sub
-Toxic

This was created during the end of the initial Latias suspect tests, to severely cripple/kill all those TTars that loved switching into Jolteon. It also works wonders on Swampert, Latias, Hippo, Porygon2, and other common switchins to Jolt. Blissey and Celebi don't mind it, obviously, but I had my own CB Tar with pursuit to deal with them.