Firing the Cannons: A Triple Dragon Team

[Cyrrona]

*~*Firing the Cannons*~*
A Triple Dragon Team​

Hey, Smogon!

This team was initially conceived as a joke, though it’s since developed into something much more serious/viable. A while back, I was troubled by a number of things irl. I wanted to take a break from all the stress and make something absolutely ridiculous. As a defensive/balanced player, I figured nothing would be more ridiculous than an offensive triple dragon team, so that’s what I set out to make. I edited the lineup a number of times before arriving at the finished product. The team has experienced a great deal of success, either hitting the leaderboard or coming very close (I didn't really keep track of ratings) before I was forced to stop playing to drive across the country and settle into a new university. Once I found the time to get back on shoddy, my rating was shot. I tried a couple matches to see if I could get it back up, but I got haxed and decided I didn't care enough to work to undo all of it (especially since the internet security up here blocks shoddy and I have to drive over to Wendy's to get on). Because of all this, I'm retiring the team for right now. Though I'm too burnt out to continue the run at the moment, I plan on using it again sometime down the road. Hopefully you guys can help me improve it for the future!

Anyways, I'm consistently entertained by the fact that such a rudimentary concept actually works. Just goes to show the destructive potential of the dragons, I suppose. This is my first RMT in a long while...I'm not a very frequent poster here, but I check the forums regularly and like the community. I'm hoping that this thread will "break down the doors" and help me get formally acclimated into the world of Smogon, because I would like to become a somewhat-active member here. :)

*~*From A Distance*~*​

​

*~*The Preparation*~*​

The ball can’t get rolling without a push.​

Smeargle (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Trick​

Smeargle was chosen as my lead because I wanted both Spikes and Stealth Rock on my team and I was pressed for space. Since I have my three dragons, the obligatory Magnezone and one other pokemon to help fill the cracks, I needed to cram both of those entry hazards into one slot. Smeargle, Skarmory and Forretress are the only pokemon in OU that could set both up, and the last two obviously weren’t going to work on an offensive team like this. That left me with Smeargle, and I've never regretted my decision. With this set he’s exceeded all of my expectations, often starting battles off with two crippled pokemon (one with scarf, one with sleep), Stealth Rock and 1-2 layers of Spikes. I usually spam Trick on turn one—since nobody really expects anything but a first-turn Spore from lead Smeargle, opponents will often switch in a sleep-talker and find themselves limited beyond use. When used in conjunction with Magnezone, Smeargle can bring down nearly all of the top leads. Let’s take a closer look:​

Azelf: easy win for me. They’ll either Taunt or Stealth Rock, thinking they’ll outspeed. I Trick them my scarf in return for a useful Focus Sash and then proceed to sleep the switch-in and start setting things up. I’m forced out temporarily if they Taunt, but this isn’t really a problem because I’ll have a sash and they won’t have rocks to break it.

Metagross: most Metagross will either Stealth Rock or Bullet Punch (hoping to break the sash they think I have before they’re slept) turn one. I come out on top in either of these situations. I’ll obviously win if they SR because I’ll trick them a scarf and proceed with set-up. If they Bullet Punch, however, I’ll take the hit, trap them on BP and switch to Magnezone as they try to finish me off. Metagross could come out on top against me if it decided to EQ or Meteor Mash right away, but since that’d be a bad option against most lead Smeargles, few will actually try and do that. Usually a win for me.

Jirachi: I switch to Magnezone on turn one. If it’s scarfed, it’ll likely try to Iron Head Smeargle, allowing Maggy to switch in with impunity, set up a sub and bring it down. If it isn’t scarfed, the worst thing that could happen is Magnezone getting paralyzed, and I’d rather have that than risk Smeargle getting killed off instantly by a couple scarf Iron Heads.

Swampert: Trick right off the bat and then start setting up. Another win.

Aerodactyl: With scarf, I outspeed it. I swap items right off the bat—Focus Sash is useful here. If it Taunts, we’re both forced out, and I can come back in with the Sash intact. If it SRs, I just proceed to Spore and start setting up. Win for me.

Infernape: Most Smeargle leads will lose to Infernape, so there’s a chance the opponent will predict a swap-out on my part and SR turn one. Because of this slim chance, I usually Trick first-turn and try to steal a Sash. If they Fake Out, I just go to Mence/Nite immediately afterward and take it down. In all likelihood, I’ll be able to come in later and set up. Not a direct win, but I have an answer to this lead.

Hippowdon: I lol as I trick, either onto Hippo as he SRs or onto a sleep-talker that’s switched in (since most teams with Hippo leads are stall teams). I set up, etc. Win for me.

Ninjask: One of my few losses--fortunately, he isn't overwhelmingly common! I switch to Metagross here.

Bronzong: Trick and set up. I win unless he Gyro Balls first-turn (which is unlikely), and if he does that, I switch to Magnezone immediately after and kill the now choice-locked steel, clearing the way for a dragon sweep.

Roserade: Lately I've been sporing opposing leads and switching to Mence to mount an early sweep. Smeargle can always come back in once Mence has rampaged and set things up later.

Smeargle’s a fantastic addition to the team, really screwing almost everything up from the get-go. High-five, Smeargle.

​

Magnezone @ Leftovers​

Ability: Magnet Pull​

EVs: 172 HP/84 Spd/252 SAtk

Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic​

Magnezone is almost essential for a dragon-heavy team like this. The steel-removing and the typing synergies with dragons are invaluable. The question was, which set should I run? I eventually settled on the Substitute set for a couple of reasons. First, given the limitations of my team (three set-up dragons—it doesn’t leave much room for revenging), I didn’t want to provide the opponent with any opportunity to set up. This ruled out the Scarf set. Secondly, I wanted to have an answer to both Magnezone’s most common switch-ins and as many dragon counters/checks as possible. With Sub, prediction/set up becomes notably easier. HP Ice is a great way to remove the dangerous Scarf Flygons from the game after they switch in (and they do frequently switch in, since they resist most of a standard Magnezone’s moveset). It’s also useful for killing opposing dragons locked into Outrage. Should a Salamence ever get a DD in, I'm able to force them into Outrage with my own Mence/Nite and then revenge with Magnezone immediately after. Toxic might look like an uninteresting filler move upon first glance, but it’s been chosen after careful consideration. Since I can’t run HP Grass for Swampert (another dragon counter), Toxic is a fine alternative, slowly weakening it until one of the cannons can break through. It also cripples Cresselia and a couple other bulky pokemon that would stand in the way of my sweepers. With Toxic here, it’s worth noting that my entire team can beat Blissey (excluding cleric variants). Magnezone has performed his role wonderfully, often netting me multiple kills per match. His ability is practically designed for a team like this, and he’s pretty irreplaceable. (On a non-competitive note, Magnezone is the only legit shiny I've caught in a pokemon game, so it's really cool to finally have him on a good, wifi-compatible team!)​

Metagross @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 HP/124 Atk/160 SpD/24 Speed
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Pursuit​

Metagross is essentially my multi-purpose buffer pokemon, preventing a number of threats from sweeping right through me. He’s capable of taking down +1 Gyarados and (slightly weakened) +1 Salamence, two pokemon that can give me problems should they find an opening to set up. He also helps my team’s overall cause by removing a number of dragon counters, making him more than just a quick fix to some weaknesses. Scarf Latias and Scarf Rotom, two pokemon capable of revenging some of my sweepers, are both Pursuited as they attempt to flee the scene. Metagross also handles Gengar and Starmie, both of whom could prove troublesome otherwise. The EVs allow Metagross to avoid 2HKOs from both pokemon while retaining the ability to hit hard. Pursuit has been incredibly useful, hitting things Smeargle has tricked to on top of the counters I listed. Scizor originally filled this spot, but he was replaced once I realized it gave Gyarados an opportunity to set up. Every team needs something to patch up weaknesses, and Metagross seems like the perfect “glue” for a team like this. If you have other ideas, though, feel free to suggest them! There are a number of moves I wish I could fit onto Meta's set--Ice Punch and Bullet Punch are two big ones. The former is being considered because even though these two threats are uncommon, DD Dragonite and bulky non-Outrage DD Mence can give me a terrible time if they manage to set up against Meta. Bullet Punch, as always, is useful priority. Opinions?​

*~*The Artillery*~*​

Head for the hills!​

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk/252 Spd/24 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spe, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage​

Salamence is the first of my dragons, and often the first to come into play. Easily the most dangerous of the OU DDers, Mence was a pretty simple pick. His job isn’t to sweep late-game, but to come in as soon as possible and start denting things. I’m very reckless with Mence—I don’t mind if he dies early on as long as he weakens something. Ideally, the opponent won’t be able to withstand boosted attacks from three dragons + entry hazards, and they’ll cave once I hit Dragonite. This has a bit of a suicide offense vibe to it, but that’s to be expected given the nature of the team (three dragons with similar counters). Anyways, Mence is a solid (and obvious) choice, and does exactly what I need him to. I'm running Max Speed to outrun some Scarf Jirachi/Flygon and tie with the rest--KOing one of those two early on could make a world of difference to Kingdra and Dragonite.​

​

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/232 Spd/24 SAtk
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Hydro Pump​

Kingdra, like Salamence, is a mid-game sweeper designed to blow holes in the opponent’s lineup. Whoever sets up first really just depends on the situation. Once both Kingdra and Salamence have DD'd and rampaged, the opponent’s team is usually visibly weaker. I'm running this LO Hydro Pump variant to give myself another chance to break Shed Shell Skarmory, a pokemon that can really cause problems for my team otherwise. EVs are pretty standard, and Swift Swim gives me a fighting chance against Rain Dance.​

​

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Inner Focus​

EVs: 224 HP/84 Atk/200 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost​

Dragonite is the late-game sweeper, and he’s a fine one at that. I’m running a bulky set to ensure survivability and because by this point (hopefully), the opponent won’t have the defenses/counters to stop me regardless of how much attack I pump into the stats. I’m using Dragonite instead of Latias for a couple reasons. First, his counters are much closer to those of Mence/Kingdra than Latias’ are, so it’s easier to break through the weakened team late-game. Secondly, I didn’t want to have to worry about Blissey. Without Latias, all of my team members (bar Smeargle) beat Blissey, so she’s pretty much a non-factor in most matches. Finally, I prefer the speed boosts Dragon Dance provides to the Special Defense bulk that comes with Latias' Calm Mind--the speed is immensely useful for outrunning/KOing random scarfed things before they have a chance to explode/trick/etc. Nite is a sturdy finisher, shaking off minor blows and breaking down anything Mence and Kingdra didn’t get to. He's usually my answer to Sub Charge Beam Rotom, as he can win 1-on-1 if he enters at full health (which isn't hard to do, since I don't pull him out early/mid game unless I need to deal with a couple very specific threats).​

And there you have it: the triple dragon team that originated as a crazy [amazing league!] stress reliever but quickly grew into something more promising. Thanks for reading, everyone—I hope you enjoyed! :)

 

[Cyrrona]

*~*Threat List*~*

Abomasnow: Smeargle can Trick/Spore leads, Metagross, Salamence

Aerodactyl: Smeargle beats leads, Kingdra and Meta can beat it if absolutely necessary.

Azelf: Smeargle beats leads. Nasty Plotters are trouble if they set up, so I need to work to prevent that. Dragonite can weather a hit or two if needed.

Blissey: The entire team beats her.

Breloom: Salamence, Dragonite.

Bronzong: Smeargle beats leads. Magnezone for non-EQ variants. Mence/Kingdra can usually hurt them beyond repair and open things up for something else.

Celebi: Metagross can pick off non-bulky variants with Pursuit. Mence can break through it, but this one has the potential to make things difficult.

Cresselia: This can screw me up—fortunately, she isn’t very common anymore. I’m fine if Magnezone can land a Toxic. If I can’t status her, my only hope is to try and overwhelm her with offense from Mence/Kingdra.

Dragonite: CB and Support builds are easily played around and KO’d. A bulky DD set lacking Outrage can cause problems if it manages to set up on Metagross—this is one reason why I’m considering Ice Punch on his set somewhere.

Dugtrio: Dugtrio is a sucky pokemon.

Flygon: Scarfers can revenge my dragons if Flygon can safely switch in, so he’s certainly a concern. However, he shoudn’t ever be able to kill more than one, since Outrage will lock him in and give me an opportunity to revenge with Magnezone’s HP Ice. I lose a dragon that way, but I’ll ideally have two more waiting in the wings, while it’s unlikely my opponent will have more scarf dragon revenge killers. Zone can also bait/kill him right off the bat if he switches in while I sub.

Forretress: Smeargle beats leads. Magnezone beats ones lacking EQ, while Mence and Kingdra can generally muscle through it.

Gengar: Metagross kills it with Pursuit. If I need to, Dragonite and Kingdra can usually take one hit and kill it in return.

Gliscor: Smeargle cripples/beats leads. If it isn’t leading, Kingdra and Mence can plow through it. Magnezone can bait and kill switch-ins with HP Ice.

Gyarados: Metagross is mainly what stands between Gyarados and my team—with Thunderpunch, Gyarados can’t set up anywhere. Magnezone can also stop non-EQ sets, but I don’t risk that unless I absolutely have to.

Heatran: Kingdra, Salamence, Dragonite. Magnezone can revenge Heatran choice-locked onto Dragon Pulse/any HP.

Heracross: Choiced sets must be played around, though most of the team outruns even Scarf after a DD. SD is beaten by Mence.

Hippowdon: Smeargle beats leads. Magnezone can bait it and either Toxic, severly limiting its staying power, or HP Ice for a 2HKO.
Kingdra can power through it and Mence/Nite take little from most sets.

Infernape: Dragonite, Salamence, Kingdra. HP Ice MixApe gives me a terrible time... Fortunately, Kingdra will always survive a Close Combat after SR damage and can ensure Infernape doesn't sweep my team. Additionally, there's a good chance one of the dragons will already be set up once Ape enters the field--this quick, offensive pace is something to keep in mind when analyzing threats.

Jirachi: Magnezone. Sub CM variants are killed off by Mence/Nite, and Mence has a chance of running through Scarfers after a DD.

Jolteon: Magnezone walls most Jolteon sets, and Meta/Nite can weather almost anything and KO with EQ.

Kingdra: This has a really hard time setting up against me. It’s obviously dangerous if it gets that DD in, but there isn’t any room to do that without getting half of its health knocked off.

Latias: Metagross, occasionally Magnezone, all of my sweepers post-set-up.

Lucario: Mence, Dragonite can survive a hit if needed. Like Kingdra, it’s hard for him to set up.

Machamp: Almost everything outspeeds and can do major damage to it.

Magnezone: Almost everything beats it, and I can trap/revenge with my own Zone if it blocks Outrage and uses something that isn’t HP Fire.

Mamoswine: A problem pokemon. If it switches in on Magnezone, I can Toxic to help wear it down. Metagross can switch in on Ice Shards directed at Mence and company, survive and EQ and OHKO in return. Kingdra isn’t really threatened by Ice Shard after set-up and can run straight through Mamo. Troublesome, though I do have a couple ways of handling it.

Metagross: Smeargle usually beats leads, and if it doesn’t, it makes them Magnezone bait. Agiligross is tricky, but most of my team can take a hit and throw something back at it.

Porygon-Z: Metagross can handle most sets.

Raikou: Metagross does well. Dragonite and Mence can handle non-HP Ice builds, and Magnezone walls it/statuses sets lacking Substitute. This will rarely find a chance to set up.

Rhyperior: Everything deals major damage.

Rotom-A: Magnezone can Toxic non-resttalkers. Metagross can Pursuit scarfed variants/sleeping things if I’m feeling bold. Kingdra and Mence wreck them after a DD, but Rotom is certainly annoying. Dragonite is my answer to Sub Charge Beamers.

Salamence: Almost everything on my team can kill it, so it will very rarely have time to DD. MixMence is kind of a pain, but I can switch around it, force it into an Outrage and kill with Magnezone. Bulky DDers with Dragon Claw spell trouble if they come in on Metagross—once again, the question of running Ice Punch arises.

Scizor: Magnezone, Dragonite, Kingdra and (to a lesser exent) Mence.

Skarmory: Magnezone, Mence and Kingdra can break it. Shed Shell variants are a little irritating, but if I play my wallbreakers right, it should go down.

Snorlax: I really just have to overwhelm this thing before it can set up too far. I can force it to rest with Magnezone’s Toxic and then hammer it with Outrages, but it’s still potentially problematic.

Starmie: Metagross puts it in a bad position, and my sweepers all knock it over.

Suicune: Crocune dies to any of my dragons, and if it isn’t Crocune, I won’t have much trouble wearing it down.

Swampert: Magnezone lures this in and cripples it with Toxic so my dragons can wear it down faster. It lacks recovery, so it’s usually gone relatively soon. Smeargle also ruins leads.

Togekiss: Dragonite’s Inner Focus makes it an excellent counter. Metagross can also lay down some hurt.

Tyranitar: Metagross, all of the dragons. If it’s a DDTar, that’s problematic… Meta might be able to take a +1 Fire Punch, but I’m not sure. Once again, I just have to avoid letting it set up.

Zapdos: Hitting it repeatedly is my best bet. Magnezone can Toxic from behind a sub as well.

(I just noticed a couple threats weren't included in this list--they'll be up ASAP!)

 

[JLei2k]

Zapdos and Celebi trouble you. They just spam Thunderwave over your whole team while you really have no power to KO them. Switch Dragonite to a CM Refresh Latias (for a nice LatiZone combo) and give Kingdra sub over Hydro Pump.

 

[Scofield]

yeah twave is a major pain as you do quite rely on speed, and even metagross pursuit doesn't scare celebi.

Go with cm refresh latias, it does beat blissey.

You're quite weak to gyarados/starmie/gengar as well. To fix the latter 2, you can just add in some more spc def to metagross. The gyara weak is a little tougher to fix. You can replace dragonite with scarf latias instead, who can shut down blissey with trick and is less afraid of scizor pursuit with zone present. Or you can settle for making it tough for gyarados to set up on you, but with smeargle present, that is risky.

 

[ThePopcornRepublic]

I personally would give Dragonite Lum berry and Outrage(over D claw), since you are running DDance on him, with a couple of DD's you can easily destroy a team. This would give you the speed (from ddance) and the power from outrage with the security from the berry to KO Zap and most other threats to this team

 

[skizoo]

T wave will destroy your team.
Also, what would be the purpose of setting stealth rocks and spikes in when you don't have a spin blocker? Basically, all that setting up would have been useless. Then your gonna have to set up again,which will be harder the second time.. Just Substitute one in for like rotom or even gengar.

A bulky rotom would help out your team a lot more.. Well to my perspective. It's because you don't need to worry about getting paralyzed if your running WoW, discharge, sleep talk, rest.

OtherwIse I see your team fine.. Good luck

 

[MetaNite]

This is a very well presented RMT thread, and well thought out team too. Congratulations.

Your lead looks pretty good. Smeargle is a very handy Pokemon with Trick.

On Magnezone, I suggest running a slightly different EV spread, to outspeed all Adamant Scizor. Oftentimes I find myself coming into a Bullet Punch, and just end up taking a SuperPower off the bat. 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Speed Timid is enough to do it. You lose a lot of bulk this way, but the Speed can be very helpful against Scizor, Tyranitar, and Breloom, whom you now outspeed the standard 212 Speed varients.

The next thing I suggest on Magnezone is Magnet Rise over Toxic. Since most Swampert are leading, hopefully you've successfully Tricked it. Now when it comes into Magnezone, you can use Magnet Rise preventing it from using Earthquake. Assuming that is the move the selected that turn, they would now be locked into Earthquake which can't hit you at all because of the Choice Scarf you tricked it. Magnet Rise also means you beat enemy Bronzong and Metagross who can both survive at least one Thunderbolt.


Metagross looks pretty intresting. Only problem is that Gengar, Starmie, and offensive Rotom-A can all 2HKO you which means they won't be switching out. I suggest an different EV spread of 200 HP / 124 Atk / 160 SpD / 24 Speed with an Adamant nature. This gives you a lot more special bulk, so you can take more Shadow Balls and Draco Meteors. The extra Speed will also let you beat most Tyranitar, to hit them hard with Meteor Mash before they hit you with Earthquake.

I would also suggest testing Occa Berry in place of Shuca Berry, and Bullet Punch in place of Earthquake. As it is, all out attacking Mixed Infernape will destroy your entire team. Your only hope against it is to Intimidate it with Salamence, let it die to HP Ice, then bring in Kingdra to revenge kill it. This is way too much of a hassle. With Occa Berry in place on Metagross, Infernape can no longer OHKO you with Fire Blast even if you came in on an HP Ice, especially with that more Specially bulky EV spread I posted above. The other reason for Occa Berry over Shuca, is for MixMence. DDMence doesn't have a chance to set up really on this team, as there are Outrages and HP Ice's flying all over the place. MixMence however, can come in to revenge kill something and just switch out until it eliminates most of your Pokemon. It will be using Fire Blast to kill your Metagross, not Earthquake, which is why I suggest testing Occa berry.

The reason for Bullet Punch is to have an easier job trapping Gengar and such. Normally, Life Orb Gengar would simply try and 2HKO you, but if you Bullet Punch first it will likely switch out next turn, since Bullet Punch would kill before you got off a hit. This allows you to use Pursuit as it switched and kill it. Bullet Punch also picks off Weavile quite nicely, who would have fun killing your Dragon-types. Losing Earthquake means you can't kill Heatran though, and with Occa Berry that is very possible. And without Earthquake you may not kill Infernape either as you have to rely on ThunderPunch, but if you make my next change, you won't have to worry about either of these Pokemon and are safe using a Shuca Berry.

As for the Dragon-types themselves, I would suggest replacing Kingdra with a Latias, as it still fits your theme, but helps against a lot more Pokemon.

Latias @ Life Orb
Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Nature: Timid
~ Draco Meteor
~ Grass Knot
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover

This is a powerful mix sweeper, only really walled by blissey and Snorlax, but your physical sweepers will put them in their place. This is the fairly standard Life Orb Latias, using Draco Meteor to really hammer things. However, I recommend Grass Knot specifically for your team. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is a huge threat to this team as Stone Edge and Earthquake will take out a majority of your Pokemon right there. Even Aerodactyl may be troublesome, using a similiar type combination. (another reason to use Bullet Punch on Metagross). Grass Knot hits Tyranitar harder than Surf would, easily 2HKOing DDTar. Latias would really be the only Pokemon it could set up on for free, and with Grass knot it will have trouble doing so. Grass Knot also helps with Swampert, who is a one time counter to pretty much all of your Pokemon. If it is not leading, then you may have some trouble with it. Thunderbolt is for Skarmory obviously. The only thing you may miss Surf for is Heatran, but you wall it for the most part with your huge Special Defense. If ChoiceScarf Tran tries to Dragon Pulse you, then Metagross or Magnezone will switch in easily and dispatch of it, saving you the trouble.

On Dragonite, you can try using Lum Berry over Leftovers on Dragonite. It makes setting up much easier, especially since your team is quite vulnerable to Thunder Wave. After tesing Bulky Dragonite a lot, I realize that all that Speed isn't entirely neccessary especially when you have a trapper Pokemon such as Metagross picking off those trouble some Starmie and Azelf. 152 Speed is all that is necessary, outspeeding Scizor, many Rotom-A, and Breloom before a Dance and Gengar / Latias afterwards. The extra EVs can be put into Attack or Special Defense, which ever you'd rather have. If you do choose Lum Berry, then you can also use Outrage without having to worry about confusion, although being locked in is still a pain.

Good luck.

 

[mc2094]

I would have to question the use of both Salamence and Dragonite. Refresh Latias will beat Blissey one on one and will help out with your huge Infernape weakness, as Kingdra is the only pokemon that doesn't get hit for SE, though it can't switch in often and it will be pretty obvious to your opponent that you have trouble with Infernape, as Kingdra isn't a counter so they can always save Infernape for later on. Latias counters him very well, and has great synergy with Magnezone. Personally, Latias is going to be better off being the late game sweeper on the team then an all out attacker, so I feel Salamence should fit that role. MixMence is an excellent member for your team. Next, I feel Kingdra would work well as a DDer. Its really good at creating holes in the opponents team, and it can easily set up thanks to its great typing.

Kingdra@Lum Berry
Adamant
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
-DD
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Sub

Kingdra can easily get up sub against guys like Heatran. Lum Berry lets it have an easy time switching in on guys like Blissey and other walls, letting it sub up and procede to use DD. Lum Berry can also be used to get rid of Confusion caused by Outrage, letting Kingdra continue its sweep. In my experience, Scizor is often used to pick off Kingdra after it has lost decnt health from Sub and residual damage, so Zone can easily switch in and trap kill the bug. With that done, I think Metagross could change his set up a bit.

Metagross@Shuca Berry
Adamant
252 HP/ 112 Atk/ 144 SDef
-EQuake
-Bullet Punch
-Pursuit
-Explosion/Thunderpunch

A much bulkier version then your current set. This does pretty much the same thing as your previous set, just that thanks to the extra bulk, he can usually do a bit more. Bullet Punch is really helpful, as it gives you an easier time against Salamence in particular who can manage to set up against your Smeargle if sleep cause is in affect. Getting the 2HKO with Bullet Punch is crucial here(assuming sr and life orb damage.) Explosion is an option in place of Thunderpunch but if you feel that Gyarados is too much trouble then stick with T-punch. I can't see it causing much problems with Mence hitting it with Draco, Kingdra using Outrage, and Latias smacking it with boosted Dragon Pulses. Gyarados isn't going to really get much of a chance to set up so I'm not too sure how useful it will be to have Thunderpunch if Gyarados is its only target. Explosion lets Metagross deal significant damage, even without max Attack. It will let you deal with troublesome pokemon late game, like Swampert. It can also hit Gyarados if you feel the need to do so. I decided not to use Meteor Mash, as I really don't think it fits well in this set which is made to deal with very specific stuff, none of which are hit by MM in the first place.

Aside from that, this team is pretty solid. I think that getting Smeargle to work is crucial, as if it doesn't, then you loose momentum. Lum Berry Metagross can cause problems against your team, as your probably not going to be getting up any hazards against him, which are crucial for your sweepers.

good luck

 

[xWOLFYx]

I agree with switching a poke out for Latias. As it is, your team looks seriously MixApe weak. He outspeeds your entire team, save Smeargle (lol), and threatens to OHKO all of them. I think Kingdra is superior to DNite as a bulky DD poke due to his typing, lack of SR weak, and resistance to Bullet Punch. Get rid of Hydro Pump and use Sub + DD Kingdra. It is incredibly easy to get up 2 DDs with him and smack things around with Waterfall and Outrage. So anyway, basically what I'm saying is, swap DNite out for Latias. The Life Orb set would work very well as you can continually switch into Ape and friends and Recover damage off while still dumping fast Draco Meteors to weaken steels.

You could also try scarfing your Magnezone. This will allow you to hit Ape with a fast and powerful Tbolt. This will also help against Starmie, which is IMO a big threat to this team. Life Orb Starmie can sweep your team in the late game given it's incredible speed and uhm... Ice Beam. For instance, the only thing that can switch into a Surf is Kingdra. He can't really set up as Life Orb Tbolt / Ice Beam will put him in ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch range and will be forced to Outrage. Metagross with no SpDef investment is 2HKO by Surf. The rest of your team is outsped and OHKO'd.

GL with your team.

 

[Cyrrona]

Wow, it’s great to see so many responses—thanks for all the rates so far! Since there’s so much to discuss, I’ll just go through and talk about each of the major suggestions individually.

First, I really like scofield/MetaNite’s idea of adding SpDef to Metagross. I’m admittedly pretty mediocre at making EV spreads, so thanks to MetaNite for providing one. :) I’ll definitely edit that in. On the topic of EVs, I’ll also be trying the Magnezone and Dragonite spreads MetaNite listed.

Celebi is indeed hard to break through, and Thunder Wave is definitely annoying. I considered running Sub Kingdra when first making the team, but a friend and I thought being able to derail stall by powering through Shed Shell Skarmory was more important. After seeing so much support for the set, however, I’ll test SubLum out. Thanks for the suggestion.

As for Latias, I’m on the fence with the Refresh set. That build does beat Blissey, but in addition to missing out on a couple of the things I mentioned in Dragonite’s paragraph, I’d also lose an Adamant Lucario check while simultaneously providing him with an opportunity to set up… That’s pretty dangerous, especially considering the fact that Mence doesn’t stick around for the whole match. Sub Charge Beam Rotom would also be tricker to play against. I’ll consider it for testing, but I’m not sold on the idea yet. MetaNite’s Latias set looks the most appealing at the moment--I’ll playtest that next time I’m out getting a frosty. Any Latias build will certainly help with HP Ice MixApe; as both my threat list and a number of people here have mentioned, that particular variant gives me trouble (especially if Kingdra’s suffered some damage). If Latias doesn't work, I'll try the Occa on Metagross to patch that up.

On the topic of Dragonite not being a good Dragon Dancer (people might not have explicitly stated this, but it was implied): the reason I used him originally wasn’t because I thought he was stellar by himself, but because he stacks nicely alongside Mence and Kingdra. Even if you consider him slightly inferior to the others, the point wasn’t to use the single best DDer—it was to use all three of them in tandem. I might try out Lum Berry on Dragonite if the Kingdra set turns out to be underwhelming/I end up using Latias over Kingdra, though I’ll probably keep Dragon Claw either way. Since he’s sweeping late-game, I really wouldn’t want to be locked into Outrage and find myself unable to Roost.

That RestTalk Rotom wouldn’t really help with Celebi, and it’d slow the team down significantly. There’s just not enough room for a spin-blocker on a team like this… That’s fine, though, since the opponent will rarely have time to devote a turn to spinning anyways.

Though I enjoy using the set elsewhere, I really can’t afford to Scarf my Magnezone here. As I explained in his paragraph, this would allow some huge threats (Gyarados and Salamence primarily) to set up as soon as I used something that isn’t Thunderbolt. My team checks those two threats by ensuring they never get a chance to DD, and choice-locking my Zone would undo that.

Gyarados also hasn’t been much of a problem. It could set up on Smeargle, but if that happens it’ll be early game and Meta will be alive and well with his Shuca Berry. I typically throw Smeargle into choice attacks to scout after he’s set things up, so Gyara's only opening is usually gone pretty fast. Since I intentionally kill him off once I have a couple hazards on the field, it’s really very difficult for anything to set up on Smeargle.

Again, thanks to everyone who has taken time to post so far. I appreciate it!

EDIT: I apologize in advance if I forgot to address a suggestion... I did my best to cover everything I remember being proposed in this post, but if I've overlooked something important, feel free to bring it up again!

 

[lordkira]

For Dragonite: I never had trouble with Dragonite's speed (on bulky) since I intend to DD more than once so I usually outspeed most of the enemy pokemons. Furthermore, I always saw Dragon Claw as the more effective option over Outrage on a Bulky DDNite since his attack will be high enough after the DDs.

 

[KurashiDragon]

1st: Ya might wanna change that szicor thing on your threat list that says it can beat scizor. With your given set it take about 4 DDances in order to sucsessfully go against scizor in all terms. CB Scizor can 2hko with bullet punch and if your going one on one with it, it'll be troublesome.

2nd: MetaNite said to replace Kingdra with Latias and I'm pretty much agreeing with him.

3rd: Most opposing Dragons would have a field day with this team if They're given time to set up. In fact bulky DDnite truely have a field day with this team given the fact that every single Bulky DDnite I've seen (Including mine might I add.) can get off enough DDances. If you Follow MetaNites advice and Use Latias I'm suggesting a Scarf set over life orb.

4th: I'M IN LOVE WITH THIS TEAM!!!! I'm serious here. Besides the fact that I love dragons with a passion this team is Extreamly well balanced. I was Skeptical with smeargle at first but I thought about it and figured how useful it is. (The threat list helped to) Nice job.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmm decent team you've got here.

Even though people often send Swampert in on Maggy have you considered putting Charge Beam on it? Setting up on stuff like Choiced Scizor and Jirachi will pretty much guarantee at least two KOs as long as you don't fight a Swampert or a Blissey. Even then sometimes Charge Beam Magnezone beats Blissey 1v1.

This team seems quite risky though, if your opponent has two fairly fast pokes with a Dragon and a Ground move (ex. Salamence and Flygon, perhaps DDTtar would be problematic too) you're going to have trouble switching in things without putting yourself in a lot of danger.

Flame Orb Cressy will be a nightmare for your team if Salamence doesn't Outrage the moment she shows up. (I keep telling people to use this, but :/)

A non-suicide lead Areodactyl (but who uses that anyway?) would give you considerable trouble as well.

Overall though a very solid team.

 

[Quaily]

One thing I have noticed is that if jirachi is not carrying a scarf on the lead, then it will be carrying fire punch so you might want to be wary of them. It can probably U-turn out as well. Most of them are scarfed though so it's rare.

 

[Cyrrona]

I probably should have been more specific in Scizor’s description on the Threat List. The dragons are listed because they’re capable of beating Scizor in certain situations. If Mence isn’t at half health (or we both switch in Scizor and Mence simultaneously—this often happens after Smeargle does his thing), Fire Blast shoots it down. Obviously Mence doesn’t do much good against Scizor after he’s suffered some damage, as Bullet Punch picks it off. Kingdra is able to set up on Bullet Punch, and Dragonite takes ~40% from a CB Bullet Punch, so he isn’t 2HKOd and I’m able to Dance/get a hit or two in if the need arises. They aren’t hard counters by any means, but they’re capable of fighting back, which is why I mentioned them there.

Most opposing dragons would have a field day if they set up, but they’re usually unable to. For example, standard DD Mence can’t really set up anywhere on this team outside of Smeargle (who dies very early on). Plus, Outrage is his undoing—it guarantees he’ll never get more than one kill thanks to Magnezone and HP Ice. You’ve brought up something I raised questions about in the OP, however: bulky DD Dragonite/bulky non-Outrage Salamence. If these two invest in the defenses and carry Dragon Claw, there’s little I can do to stop them if they try and set up on Metagross. Usually they’re afraid of Explosion and don’t risk it, but it’s still cause for concern imo—it’s enough to make me wonder whether I should try to fit Ice Punch on Metagross somewhere and eliminate this potential opening (I’m hesitant to run Explosion because Meta is such an important pokemon for the team). If nothing else, I can always test the scarf Latias suggestion, since Metagross is moveslot-deprived at the moment anyways.

I’ve thought about both Charge Beam and Magnet Rise on Magnezone, as I see the merits of both… I think I prefer the current set, though. Thunderbolt is necessary/powerful STAB, HP Ice is needed for dragons, Sub makes the set work, really, and I personally just find Toxic more useful than the alternatives. It’d definitely be fun to Magnet Rise on a choice-locked Swampert, but I’d probably rather just poison it to kill its staying power or switch Mence/someone in on the EQ and set up. Charge Beam sounds like a really neat option, but I feel I need the status to break some key threats. With regards to the difficulty I'd have switching into things once they've set up, I follow a "the best defense is a good offense" policy on this team: I tend not to switch unless I'm positive it'd benefit me. This allows me to prevent most of these threats from setting up in the first place.

Fortunately for my team, no one but you uses Flame Orb Cresselia, MTI. :P

Thanks for the continued comments/rates/kind words!

 

[The_Coon]

When I first looked at this team I thought, he beat me too it.

I've been using Lance Replica Teams with Latias and Salamence for ages! I feel betrayed T_T

Another thing that's obvious is that this team is offensive (duh). No seriously, very offensive. But one way. Dragonite is all physical (same set I use btw works out really well), Kingdra is all physical besides Hydro Pump, which I understand you putting in, but with an Adamant nature it's probably inferior to Waterfall (although I understand what you're saying about it being used as a way to hit Skarmory but a Mence FB will kill it anyways) and Salamence is the DD set with Fire Blast as the final option (not being dented by the nature though). For the non-dragons, Metagross is another physical attacker, although that's regular Metagross, - the Bullet Punch (why is that btw?) and Magnezone is a Special attacker, but if I were you I'd swap Toxic for Magnet Rise, otherwise the Earthquakers are just gonna destroy it. Where I'm getting at is put in Latias as it's just an amazing Poke. If you're worried about TWave (which you probably should be) then make it a CMRefresh Latias. If you're not then go with Offensive CM Latias. Maybe as a joke you could give it Psycho Shift :P?

Yeah, overall I'm loving that someone finally posted the dragon-offense team. As Wallace says in R/S/E, 'Kudos to you!'

 

[tobi10]

Heya Blecko, this is the best team I´ve seen, from you. But I couldn´t expect nothing less from you. The problem I noticed is that you lose to teams with DD Gyarados and DD Salamence, since you rely on Metagross for beating both.
I know this goes against your policy but, I reccomend you to use Jirachi in Metagross´s place. He can outspeed and OHKO both after a Dragon Dance and will give you another Scizor, Lucario, Heracross, Tyranitar, Machamp,, Rock Polish Perior etc... check
Other thing I would like to mention is, I would definitely use Mixed Salamence over your current set, since stall may be a problem, probably you will say the following: "but my pokes beat stall after set up", it is true, but it is hard to find set up with 3 Pokemon vs. stall, and it would still weaken Dragonite´s counters like Swampert, Hippodown, Scarfrachi and else.
My suggestions are worth a try, this is such a great team and well presented RMT, good luck, you deserve it.

*Edit* I playtested it and got a 10-0 record with "LA BLECKA" account, good luck!

 

[Cyrrona]

Thanks for the compliments! Jirachi does go against my policy in the sense that it's a choice user and would permit the threats it checks a turn of set-up, but I'll give it a try sometime. MixMence I'm not particularly fond of here, as it's incapable of running through the anti-dragon scarfed Jirachi/Flygon so many teams run nowadays after a turn of set up--that's one of max speed DD Mence's big selling points on this team. Since it's been recommended twice, however, I'll add it to the list of potentials.

I think I've gotten a good bit of feedback here--thanks again to everyone who spent time typing a response up!

 

[Witnessed]

Hi, I just wanted to say that this team is very well presented. Hopefully this will be an example to the newer users who post teams with no thought at all. As you can tell, we have surge of that recently.

Onto a quick rate.

I think you have a small problem with MixApe, especially versions with HP Ice. For this reason, I think we should give Metagross an Occa Berry instead of a Shuca Berry, because it can survive a Fire attack, then hit hard with its Earthquake.

I also think you should replace Spikes with Thunder Wave on Smeargle. Yes, you are losing an entry hazard, but I think it can really open the door for your late game sweeper, Dragonite. I also think it could be helpful to use Taunt, because with three set up sweepers, I think you might want Taunt to block other Taunters and Phazers.

Hope I helped, and Good Luck.