[Gen 4] ZAP! But in the wrong idea...

[AntiMetaGame]

Hello, Smogon. I've had success with my previous teams and want to continue that success. My best team came out of here, but it focused more on getting things set up. I wanted to make a more balanced, or perfect, so that it could adapt to any situation. I open to everything except one thing – I can’t use Rotom Formes. Other than that, here’s my team: ZAP!

ZAP!

I decided that to make my team more perfect, I need a good sweeper. Luckily, I could choose someone I liked and fit my ZAP! theme - Jolteon! He's fast, powerful, and almost unstoppable late game.

There are 3 things that stop Jolteon - Ground types (or Flygon), opposing Jolteon, and special walls (FUCKA YOUUUUUU BLISSEY). I'm not sure what stops them, but Bulky DD Gyara stops 2/3 ground types and walls and severely injures Jolt switch ins if not killing them. Gyara is also a good electric magnet. If its possible late game, I'll get in Jolt for free and sweep instead of sacing someone.

I've forgotten one of the most important members: a lead. I've used and loved Azelf. He's one of my favorite leads and has almost never let me down. He specializes in 4 things - setting up rocks, killing opposing leads, shutting down leads, and killing stuff. He's always been there to help me out, and I think he does really well.

Now I need a tank of some sort. One that can take hits and help my team. I decided on Shaymin. Not only is he OVER 9000!!!!!!! times cuter than Celebi, he's not used as much as I thought. He needs love so I gave it to him

Now I need a good attacker that can deal chunks of damage so that I can finish the job with my other guys. I always have a Zapdos weakness in my teams, but this time, I've got it covered. I decided on Heatran as he helps Shaymin live longer.

Now I need something to finish my team and help out as well. I chose someone everyone knows. A jack-of-all trades - revenge killer, (WHAT DOES THE) scouter, and is just plain annoying. Enter Scizor

More in Depth
Changes in RED

Azelf (TwinBlade)
Timid
Levitate
Choice Band
144 Atk / 112 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- U-turn
Special thanks to Jirachi (formerly Faladran) for this awesome custom set. Not only does he 1HKO many leads, make Machamp look like shit when compared, he can also Explode to stop rocks from getting up. If I'm in a bad match up, I'll U-Turn to get out. I've tested, and Jirachi showed me calcs. This lead is awesome and loses only to Zong, Metagross, and Weavile
Heres a small list on how he does against other leads:
Azelf - U-Turn and either kill (Life Orb) or bring him down to his sash and go to Scizor to finish the job.
Machamp - Zen Headbutt 1HKOs
Gliscor - Ice Punch 1HKOs
Swampert - Explosion 1HKOs
Heatran - Explosion 1HKOs
Hippodown - Explosion 1HKOs
Dragonite - Ice Punch 1HKOS
Aerodactyl - Ice Punch 2HKOs
Weavile - He's faster, but I'll go to Gyara anyway, then Taunt (for Counter) and Waterfall all day.
Bronzong - U-Turn and go to tran
Roserade - U-Turn and go to Shaymin or Tran for sleep fodder, and then go to Scarf Scizor for a Bullet Punch kill. Starmie - Once again, thanks to Jirachi for this custom set. Now, a Life Orb Hydro Pump will never kill unless of a critical, and a U-Turn will 90% minimum and possible kill.
Jirachi - U-Turn hopefully on rocks and own with Gyara. If its Iron head, I'll go to Gyara.
Metagross - U-Turn and go to tran.

Heatran (Vesuvius)
Naive
Flash Fire
Leftovers
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Rock (68)
Originally a subtran which became a leadtran which became a subtran again. I decided that since he's so powerful, and just plain awesome, I put him back as a subtran. If I'm right, the EVs should allow me to outspeed all variations of Gyara and nite at neutral speed. Generally, with SR, HP Rock is a clean 2HKO except several exceptions, the most notable are Restalk Gyara and Support nite . Here's how HP rock does:
Offensive DD Gyara - 44.7% - 53.2%
Bulky DD Gyara - 40% - 47.6%
Mixed Attacker nite - 44.7% - 53.2%
DD nite - 38.3% - 45.6%
Banded nite - 45.8% - 54.5%

All calcs except for
Bulky DD gyara with Leftys
DD nite with Leftys (only real threat)
add up to over 75%

Gyarados (FirstBlood)
Adamant
Intimidate
Leftovers
156 HP / 72 Att / 96 Def / 184 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
Bulky DD Gyara is a great sweeper and hit absorber. He's covered nicely in this team, and can attack back. He's there to usually take advantage of Heatran's
dominance, or just there to force switches.

Shaymin (Shy men)
Modest (considering Calm)
Natural Cure
Leftovers
252 HP / 180 Spe / 76 SpA
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Ice
Subseed Shaymin is awesome. 252 HP EVs allow me to beat Blissey with Leech Seed, and he most special attacks are 3HKOs which generally lets me get a Leech Seed for the incoming guy after him. I used HP Ice over HP Fire because I have tran and Scizor to take other steels. Shaymin is there to take hits and set the stage for my other guys. I prefer Substitute over protect, but I need a way to beat Choiced Pokes, notably Scizor, scarftram, ScarfFlygon, and other choiced guys

Jolteon (Nuke)
Timid
Volt Absorb
Life Orb
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4SpDef
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice
-Shadow Ball
-Wish
I'm not going to lie, but I'm a Specs Jolt guy. However, I need a Life Orb so I can smack everything in sight except for Flygon, the only real threat in my eyes. He has Wish in case Azelf doesn't stop rocks from coming. Ater I force a switch to a Jolt counter, and its not Blissey, I'll go straight to Gyara for 50% of his health back, Intimidate (most of Jolt's counters are physical attackers), and possibly a free dance or switch in kill. I chose Wish over Yawn so that I can continue putting on the offensive pressure.

Jirachi (Genie)
Jolly
Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Iron Head
Stealth Rock
U -Turn
Ice Punch

Lead Jirachi not in a lead spot. Most people belive Azelf to be the rocker, so are I U-Turn / Explode, I go to this guy to either finish off the lead or set up rocks. I used Ice Punch for dragons because Heatran and Gyara have steels covered while Shaymin and Jolt threaten waters. I decided not to use trick for my LO Starmie weakness and because Jirachi flinches Blissey and u-turns/Ice punhces Skarm. I also need Jirachi to function as a revenge killer as well because he took Scizor's spot.

Past Members

Scizor (GoldRanger)
Jolly
Technician
Choice Scarf
252 Atk / 244 Spe / 12 HP
Jolly
-U turn
-Pursuit
-Superpower
-Bullet Punch
To be honest, I'm a CBzor and SD Scizor guy. However, this is a great glue that keeps everything together. If I remember correctly, this guy outspeeds everything not scarfed and can get surprise kills every now and then. Everything there is obligatory moves. U-Turn to scout, Pursuit for Starmie and Gengar, Bullet Punch to own, and Superpower to hit those steels (Take THAT Magnezone!).

Counters
Electivire - I just recently figured this out. If I use Jolt early, or maybe in general, Evire will sweep my entire team. Without the boost, Azelf can stop him, but otherwise, I'm screwed.
Life Orb Starmie - Starmie forces me to reveal Jolt early as she can 3HKO Shaymin
Sub Gengar - I have hard times getting around this guy. I'll have to sack someone to break the sub and have Scizor finish the job.

So yeah, here's my team. I'm not sure about my weaknesses, but those are the most obvious ones to me. Originally, this team was centered around Jolteon, but it became a "kill everything that moves" team. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Plusle]

Hi! To cover some of your major weaknesses. I reccomend changing Heatran to a Scarf set. This gives you a much needed reenge killer helping you check Electrivire better. You know lose to Gyarados and Heatran but you still have Shaymin and your Gyarados to check them. GL with your team!

Heatran (Vesuvius)
Timid
Flash Fire
Choice Scarf
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Explosion
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Grass

 

[Josh781]

if youre using jolteon late game then change his item to lifeorb so that he can change moves you only lose a bit of power

 

[Smith]

Damn I just pressed backspace and deleted my whole rate, grrrr. Anyways nice team you got here, obviously extremely solid and Jolteon is a real dick in the current metagame, so nice going there. Looking at your threats list, and noticing your currenlt lack of a scarfer, I think I have a really great solution for all of your troubles! Try the following set:

@ Choice Scarf
252 Atk / 244 Spe / 12 HP
Jolly
-U turn
-Pursuit
-Superpower
-Bullet Punch

I'm not sure how long you've been around or lurking, but do you remember when scarfTar usage BOOMED? He was really awesome at first because people took him for a CB set, thought they could outspeed him, couldn't and in fact got nabbed by crunch/pursuit before they could do anything. Well, that's exactly how this Scizor works. Gengar, Celebi, Starmie- they all think he's CB and just Hidden power Fire or protect or hydro pump or something. Ipso facto, Scizor outspeeds all of these things and can either dish out huge/life ending damage with pursuit, or simply U turn to get an equal amount of damage.Your team presently lacks a scarfer, so Scizor helps out with revenging a lot of threats, even those with priority thanks to Bullet Punch. Speedy U turn is also really great because, unlike Flygon, it actually hits for some pretty significant damage thanks to STAB. He also synergizes very well with the team- with Starmie, Celebi and/or Rotom removed, Gyarados will have a much much easier team sweeping. Overall he's a great fit!

Just a quick note here, but I tend to agree with the above statement that LO Jolteon is a lot better nowadays. Yes, specs hits like a truck, but many people can just predict around it, with, let's use an example here, Gliscor, Swampert or a slower Flygon. With a LO, you can ensure that nobody is safe unless they safely predict around you an switch in a scarfer. Try out this set;

@ Life Orb
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4SpDef
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice
-Shadow Ball
-Wish

This is very similar to your previous set, but wish is a lot better than baton pass. Obviously one of the advantages of GyaraJolt is that they both create switch in opportunities for each other. Jolteon provides here by Wishing on the numerous switches he forces, and then going to Gyarados to heal he who desperately wishes he had recovery. It really enhances your symbiotic relationship. It also gives Jolteon recovery, seeing as how Lo recoil can be annoying.

That's all the advice I have, excellent team. I hope this helps!

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Thank you for the advice everything. If I use a scarftran, shouldn't I make him Naive/Rash because Timid lowers Explosion's power? That way, I should be able to kill Gyara. On the idea of Scarfzor, how do you use him? Starmie (the only real threat he covers), is naturally faster. Scizor can switch in on a Tbolt or Surf or free, but then he's forced to show his scarf. Does that mean I HAVE to reveal he's scarfed? Starmie never really comes in on Scizor, so I'm a bit unsure on how to use him. He also can't 1HKO Gengar now. He does 44% - 52.1% with Bullet Punch now, so Gengar has a good chance of get another sub after he switches out from a Scarf Bullet Punch and my opponent knows he's scarfed as well. Scizor was there to cover my DD nite weakness, and now he can't do that too.

 

[Faladran]

Hi again. This team looks good, so I only have a couple of minor suggestions to add to everyone else's advice. I think that your current Azelf set is decent, but it matches up unfavorably against leads such as Aerodactyl, Heatran, and other Azelf. One way to fix this up would be to use a Choice Band Azelf instead, and put Stealth Rock onto Heatran's moveset.

[box]

Azelf @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 144 Atk / 112 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- U-turn
[/box]
The power of CB Azelf is incredible. Zen Headbutt easily OHKO's Machamp leads, while Ice Punch dispatches of Gliscor and Dragonite. Explosion eliminates basically any bulky lead, including Swampert, Hippowdon, and even Heatran (who resists the attack). This means that CB Azelf can often prevent the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock, making it a lot easier for your team members, notably Gyarados, to switch around. U-turn rounds out the moveset by giving you a way to deal with Aerodactyl and other Azelf leads. I made up this custom EV spread to ensure that Azelf will never be OHKO'd by LO Hydro Pump from Starmie leads, allowing you to KO them back with U-turn.

Good luck!

 

[Smith]

Well Scizor is played almost exactly like you would play a ScarfTar. You just have to switch him in, by some means, like on a weak Ice Beam, Grass Knot or Shadow Ball. From there, if you think they're going to switch, you just use Pursuit. Even if they do stay in, thanks to Technician, it isn't going to be fun for them. If it's a psychic and not a ghost, U turn will do a very healthy chunk of damage as well. Something you must realize is that, you'll hardly EVER be using bullet Punch, it's just to pick off things at lower HP. This does mean that you will be "revealing" your scarf, but usually he can get a surprise kill anyway as Rotom-a, celebi, Starmie and gengar all have their own little ways of getting around Scizor- however, none of these work if Scizor is scarfed. I'd consider DDragonite pretty well covered, so don't worry too much. Firstly, he can only really set up on heatran. From there, since Shaymin has HP Ice, he's going to have to use Outrage to keep you from killing him (+1 Outrage only does 70.5% - 83.2%, so you still have a good chance of surviving). From there, he's either dead from HP Ice, or stuck into Outrage such that Scizor can pick him off. He's still troubling, but you can still play around him, and I still think that Scarf Scizor is for the best, considering that DDragonite is somewhat rarer than the aforementioned ghost/psychics, and that he can only set up on one member of this team.

 

[tawp64]

Just a few nitpicks, try bounce on Gyara. It hits a lot that SE dosen't hit like Breloom (who is the answer to very many set up pokemon). Bounce is very powerful, and helps a lot with getting leftovers recovery.

And I love using a LO Thunder Wave set. But for this team it isn't very fitting, so just use the LO part.

Another thing is that SD Scizor is much more of a threat because BP has terrible coverage, so having another choice for a move is great.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Jirachi - Wow thanks, man! Not only did you grant my wish, you gave me a nice custom spread (which is working quite nicely) too! Though, it doesn't 1HKO Starmie 100% of the time, but Scizor can finish the job now. You also forgot about Metgross, but I guess U-Turn + Earth Power is good enough. I understand the need for Stealth Rock. Should I make make tran Stabless because CB Azelf and Scizor's U-Turn maim Grass types now?

Smith - I guess I haven't lurked enough. I've only used DD TTar, but I've got a better understanding now on how to use Scarfzor. Also, I guess 2 Bullet Punches can KO DDnite after SR damage anyway so I'mma try it out. Thank you.

Tawp64 - I used to use Bounce + 252 Att / 252 Spe + Life Orb + DD Gyara before and its not relliable because of Bounce's bad accuracy and because Breloom can Sub stall me. Gyara already is faster than Breloom without DD, so I only need Taunt to shut him down. I appreciate SD Scizor too, (he's on another one of my teams), but he's there to revenge kill, not sweep. That's Gyara's and Jolteon's job.

 

[Moo]

Hai,

Nice team, it looks great, really. I do have a few suggestions though.
Firstly, I think you should change your shaymin set to the Leech Seed Protect set:

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice
- Leech Seed
- Protect

This isnt too different from the set you're running. The main difference id protect, over substitute, which has it's advantages:
- With Substitute and leech seed, it's always a battle to keep a substitute up while draining hp, and more often than not, you end up losing health. With protect, you won't be cutting chunks off of your health only to have them subs broken, but you still get the same amount of hp draining ;)
- Protect has priority, which means you can beat Choiced pokemon, and then take the right action against them. Flygon is the best example. It's a common switchin to shaymin, and now it wont be a problem.

I was going to recommend Bounce over Stone Edge on Garados too, but then i read that you dont like it. If Breloom is a problem, try Ice Fang over Stone Edge, sure its weak but it wont matter after 1-2 Dragon Dances.

Jolteon is a great sweeper, but it's shut down by things like Blissey and Snorlax. I recommend trying out the Yawn set:

Jolteon @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Nature: Timid
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Yawn
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Grass / Ice

This set abuses the Yawn + Protect combo to shit down things that give Jolteon trouble. It's great for shuffling your opponents team around, and building up Stealth Rock damage. Protect is also good for stacking Leftovers boosts. The only real problem is now you cant hit Rotom except with yawn, but i guess you have Scizor.

Thats it really, good luck with the team, hope i helped :D

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Thanks for the idea. I generally sub on the switch or Leech Seed a tank though, and while I like the concept of a Yawning Jolt, he's there for late game sweeping. I can't risk using Yawn or else he's getting hit when Gyara could take the hit instead. Can you also explain Shaymin's EVs?

Does anyone know the answer to this question? Can Jolteon run 232 Speed EVs to hit a stat of 374, outspeeding everyone who isn't Choice Scarfed bar Weavile and Aerodactyl. So can he outspeed scarf Flygon?

 

[Kisuke]

Seems like a decent team, few things I would change though.

I suggest you try giving Azelf a choice band.
So
Azelf-Jolly@Choice band 252 speed/252 atk/4 hpp
Ice punch
Zen headbutt
Explosion
U turn

As someone already stated you will be beating Gliscor/Machamp with this set, futhermore you have U turn to get the hell out of there.

I personally would change Leech seed on that Shaymin and go with Earth power so you can take down Heatran's. Good luck with the team.

Edit, try changing the spread on Shaymin to 252 speed/252 sp atk/ 4hp.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Thanks everyone! Scarf Scizor is pretty awesome. What I'm unsure about though is why I shouldn't be using a better - Scarf Jirachi - over Scizor:

4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Iron Head
Thunder Punch
Trick
Ice Punch
I feel Scizor is good, but lacks to unpredictability of Jirachi. Also, if I use Jirachi, I can still check Starmie, AND set up rocks (if I use a Lead Jirachi).

 

[jdesai927]

I was just about to suggest the above. Scarfrachi is better than Scizor for sure, the only thing it lacks is priority. I think, however, that it more than makes up for it with Trick, which helps you get past SkarmBliss, which can irritate your offensive core if you aren't careful. Also, your team lacks protection from powerful Rock-type attacks like CB TTar's STAB Stone Edge, and Jirachi's excellent typing means you can always use it as a defensive pivot, or to attract Fire- and Ground- type attacks so that Gyarados can switch in more easily.

The only problem with this team, I think, is that you lack a spinner; Gyarados especially, but Jolteon as well, won't like switching into Stealth Rock. For this reason, I recommend LO Starmie, which will give you better coverage than Shaymin thanks to its amazing movepool, as well as Rapid Spin, not to mention it attracts electric-type attacks for Jolteon to heal. The only problem with this would be the loss of bulk, so another option would be Tentacruel, which gives you bulk on the special side, possible Toxic Spikes, and the same advantages as Starmie barring access to Grass Knot and Thunderbolt.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Thank you, I've done more testing and edits.