Glimmer: An Overview of Reflective Barriers and Usage

[Yagami Light]

First off, I'd like to extend a friendly hello to the people here at Stark Mountain. I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. Most of you may know me, generally as “Light”, as a rather fond proponent of innovation and exploration. I am of the opinion that the basis for any competitive metagame should be firmly rooted in the discovery of new techniques, arts and strategies. It is for that reason, to an extent, for which I have deigned to post this rather lengthy bit of text. You'll find in this topic two things: A discussion on Reflective Barriers and a bit of a pet project of mine, an adaptive Electivire by the name of Glimmer, that allows you to use them to optimal satisfaction and results.


To begin the discussion on Reflective Barriers, it is perhaps prudent to realize exactly WHAT they are and what effects they have. Essentially, damage from Physical (Reflect) or Special (Light Screen) attacks is reduced by ½ the amount during the 5 (8 with Light Clay) turns that the move is active. This is a rare tactic in standard play, and rightly so. It is situational and requires wasting a moveslot and a turn. It is conquered by stalling and brute force. Why then would I choose this, of all things, to mention? The fact that it does not require a central unit to be in play for an extended period of time, namely the caster of the move. This allows for numerous possibilities, and the increased time for which it works thanks to Light Clay is also of note. The only hard counters to it are few and far between, and as such, with flexible teamwork, might be some of the best moves in the game. What do you think on the subject?


Now to show an example of what I mean when I say flexible teamwork, I present to you all, Glimmer:


Glimmer (Electivire) @ Light Clay
Motor Drive
[Your Evs and nature are entirely up to the nature of your team, for your reference neutral speed nature and 212 Evs allows you to outspeed everything up to +Speed CSHeatran with a Motor Drive boost]


Light Screen [This is your central move, it supports your team vastly]
Cross Chop/Earthquake [Powerful offensive force]
Thunderpunch [Electric STAB move]
Flamethrower [To deal with Skarmory that get in your way]


Obviously the above is fully customizable, I just don't like massive cases of Slashitis. Let's analyze this and see how it relates to the mission of using Reflective moves. Electivire has passable HP and above average Special Defense, this makes him a good candidate for the effects of Light Screen and longevity in setting it up. In addition, his low lack of weaknesses (1) allows him to not be particularly frightened as some Pokemon are. His ability, Motor Drive, increases his speed by 1.5, a feat that only Ninjask, Yanmega and he can accomplish outside of items, Baton Pass or using a move themselves. This allows him to come in quickly, frighten off the Pokemon he has met and set up 8 turns of halved Special Attack power for the enemy team. His role doesn't end there, however. He also manages to act as a wallbreaker and a stopper of potential threats that may be looming with Choice Scarves, attempting to stop the team. While your actual sweeping will be done by your now uberbuffed sweepers, his very prescence makes the enemy think twice before firing off an electric attack, making him very useful even when off the field. Couple that with his very low use, and you've got a mindgame on your hands. His myriad of unique functions, ability to score super effective hits on most anyone and an already devastating Stat Distribution make him the perfect candidate for an adventure in the real of field effects.


Such a complex thing it seems, yet it is quite simple to accomplish and with gigantic effects. I hope it illustrates just what sort of thinking needs to go into these sorts of moves, and I have a desire to hear what you think about both the move types and Glimmer himself.


Best regards,
Light


P.S. Obligatory Plushie

 

[RaikouLover]

Pretty cool idea, Light.

However, my personal opinion is that Electivire sucks, and this set doesn improve him whatsoever.

For starters, I would use Thunderbolt instead of Thunderpunch, since it does more damage thanks to higher basepower, unless your team is deathly afraid of Calm Mind Suicune (who probably is beating you with its offensive set anyway). Also, Electivire's physical defense is absolutely atrocious, and its HP is pretty lackluster also. So in most cases you are better off just attacking anyway. Why give up such enormous type coverage and your valuable speed boost for the ability to use Light Screen?

Lastly, I think this set is thoroughly outclassed by the game's other Screeners. His own fellow Electric type, Raikou, can run both screens, has better speed and even has pretty decent defensive stats to back it up. When Lati@ testing commences, I also expect Latias to be everywhere using a dual screen set. Bronzong, Alakazam, Azelf, and even Starmie all do this screening thing much better. Just my two cents.

 

[Evil Hamster]

I'm not sure to be honest. Most of the things that are going to be switching into Electivire safely are typically physically orientated or offensively weak anyway; think bulky grounds like Hippowdon and Swampert, or Bronzong, Dusknoir, Spiritomb, Celebi, etc. Whilst I'm sure you could pull this off, I would much rather use something else that can set up screens; preferably that is either bulkier, faster without the need for a boost, or can use both screens. It seems to waste Electivire's good offensive potential for a very limited supportive role that can be achieved better by other Pokemon.

 

[Raverist]

Cressy does tyhe double screens things quite a bit better, and can actually laugh at EQ, argubly the most common metagame move ever created.

 

[DA_Marcelll]

Cressy does tyhe double screens things quite a bit better, and can actually laugh at EQ, argubly the most common metagame move ever created.

Yes, but.. everybody and their mum expect it which gave them the opportunity to switch a counter (BB user anyone?) in.

E-vire has some huge advantages by setting up Light Screen, it can handle Scarf-Tran, Starmie and such pretty good with a screen up. I'd definetly like the E-vire.

 

[Gmax]

I get it. Blissey is everywhere in today's metagame thanks to the abuse of Heatran, Rotom, Zapdos, Skymin etc. Since the death of Chomp there hasn't been anything that can come in on a Thunder Wave, force Bliss out and really ruin teams with the free turn it just earned, giving Bliss free opportunities to TWave.

This Electivire can exploit that TWave pretty heavily I guess, since Bliss can't really threaten it, and will probably just switch out fearing Cross Chop, giving it a perfectly free turn to set up 8 turns of halved damage from special attacks. It can also double up as a late game cleaner, unlike Cress, playing a different role, so you can't just say Cress does this better.

It has its own unique role as a TWave absorber that hit walls on both sides of the defensive spectrum pretty hard. Light Screen means that it can utilise the turn when the opponent switches to their Cress or something to the fullest extent. Sounds like a good idea.

 

[EeveeTrainer]

this topic reminds me of 'pepper' the pokemon everyone was so hyped about.

But similar to this one nicely written, awesome in theory until it is used in reality where such things are often doomed to flaw

I don't even get what the "theory" here is. An Electivire with Light Screen? ..Ok?

 

[1059860]

You might well just go with Thunderbolt rather than Flamethrower, and STAB Thunderbolt with neutral nature is just almost as strong as ThunderPunch with + nature since Tbolt has more BP.

Last slot can be use for Ice Punch or EQ or Fire Punch if must.

 

[Mr.E]

I do <3 the screens and they're vastly underrated and underused in general. Gmax explains its viability pretty well, though I don't think Electivire is really a great choice for it anyway. It lacks recovery of any sort and it's not a terribly defensive pokémon to begin with, so you won't find too many openings to switch it in or stay alive long enough to repeatedly set up. (i.e. Better off leaving otherwise defensive pokémon to set up the defensive moves and letting offensive pokémon, like Electivire, do their thing.) It also takes away from Electivire's type coverage, which is the only dangerous thing about it as an attacker. No Ice Punch hurts. ;( It would probably be better with that before a Fire move.

You also have to look at the common switch-ins and decide which screen is better. As Evil Hamster denoted, Reflect may or may not work better on Electivire. Really, an Electivire switch-in is pretty much anything not weak to its common attacks (or at least bulky enough to take a non-STAB SE hit), which could be lots of things on either spectrum, so it can probably use both screens to effect. It's about which one helps your team more than it is flipping neutral match-ups, though it's nice if your screen flips an otherwise "neutral" match-up in your favor, giving you another free turn as they switch again.

For starters, I would use Thunderbolt instead of Thunderpunch

For starters, you're a god damn moron because it was established months ago Electivire has no business using TBolt over TPunch unless you're running Flamethrower too. Maybe it's not fair to call you a moron since the set he posted actually does run Flamethrower, but you don't run TBolt simply because it has "higher basepower" any more than you should use TPunch because Electivire has higher Attack. Running TBolt alone is silly because it weakens your secondary attacks and forces you to run a -defense nature instead of simple -SpA. (Not that Electivire is a defensive powerhouse, but there's no need to kill your defenses even more if you don't have to.) Using Flamethrower gives you incentive to keep your SpA, so you might as well use TBolt anyway in that case, but an otherwise all-physical moveset should stick with TPunch.

When Lati@ testing commences, I also expect Latias to be everywhere using a dual screen set. Bronzong, Alakazam, Azelf, and even Starmie all do this screening thing much better. Just my two cents.

Now what do all six of them have in common? (HINT: Cresselia shares the common trait as well.)

 

[Bob Marley]

This set could be useful. Not only against Blissey, but Zapdos, Celebi, and others who'd like to T-wave. On top of that, since he is weak to a very common attack, having him setup and being a hit and run poke. I will try it. 8)

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

Theres one teensy, tiny problem with Reflect Electivire.

Electivire doesn't learn Reflect.

I think Alakazam or Starmie would be better Screeners due to Recover, higher speed, and the fact that they can use both screens.

 

[Mr.E]

Oh, well, that would be a problem then. ;( Shame, since he'd be able to use it effectively. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[Unholy Genesiss]

I till think you're crazy... very much crazy.
While this set may have SOME potential - it may not be the best set.

 

[Peachfuzz]

At first this seemed like a topic talking about the Dual Screen strategy and its effect on the metagame, and how its usage has skyrocketed in past months, ever since Deo-S.

I don't really see the innovation here. It's an Electivire with Light Screen. Sure it offers good team support, but plenty of other pokes do it better. This also does not help Electivire himself much, as he pokes switching in on Vire are for the most part physical, and Celebi would just Recover stall and Leech Seed you. Perhaps it can beat Toxic less Cresselia one-on-one, but other than that you're better off using a sweeper Vire or a better team supporter.

 

[Shinryu]

Lol, Lord of the Rings quote ftw!

Also, good article.

 

[boltscore]

Well...to those who are complaining about how physical attackers come in on Electivire, you do realize you can switch and keep your Light Screen (and the sarcasm within that "question")?

Some easy switch-ins would clearly be Gyarados (that was hard to think of), Rhyperior (if there is a sandstorm, though), Scizor, and Metagross. Other than Gyarados, all of those Pokemon have pretty good Defense, but average Special Defense. They all can stat-up, and...pretty nastily, too.

There are obviously still problems with that idea, though.

 

[kd24]

Some easy switch-ins would clearly be Gyarados (that was hard to think of), Rhyperior (if there is a sandstorm, though), Scizor, and Metagross. Other than Gyarados, all of those Pokemon have pretty good Defense, but average Special Defense. They all can stat-up, and...pretty nastily, too.

why ... would gyarados EVER switch into an electivire?

 

[Stathakis]

I'd love to see a competent player switch rhyperior, scizor, or gyarados into electivire without knowing its set or for sacrificial purposes.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by Mr. E.
For starters, you're a god damn moron because it was established months ago Electivire has no business using TBolt over TPunch unless you're running Flamethrower too. Maybe it's not fair to call you a moron since the set he posted actually does run Flamethrower, but you don't run TBolt simply because it has "higher basepower" any more than you should use TPunch because Electivire has higher Attack. Running TBolt alone is silly because it weakens your secondary attacks and forces you to run a -defense nature instead of simple -SpA. (Not that Electivire is a defensive powerhouse, but there's no need to kill your defenses even more if you don't have to.) Using Flamethrower gives you incentive to keep your SpA, so you might as well use TBolt anyway in that case, but an otherwise all-physical moveset should stick with TPunch.

In reading over this I'm absolutely apalled that you would say such an aggressive personal attack when you are clearly wrong in nearly everything you said. I believe it was established months ago that Thunderbolt DOES trump Thunderpunch in usefulness in almost every category. The only reason you would use Thunderpunch is really as I said before, if you are afraid of Calm Mind Suicune and the lesser used Calm Mind Slowbro. Just so theres no confusion:

Mild, 252 SpAtk Thunderbolt vs. Random 300 HP / 200 Def Pokemon: 54-64%
Adamant, 252 Atk Thunderpunch vs. same pokemon: 51-60%

And, it says specifically in the Electivire analysis:

Thunderbolt has a slightly higher damage output than ThunderPunch when both stats are maxed out, although it is only a difference of 7%.

Meaning that you couldn't be more wrong with what you've said. Not only that, but most of OU is so physically orientated that Thunderbolt is going to be more damage on average even without a maxed Special Attack investment. Furthermore, your statement:

but you don't run TBolt simply because it has "higher basepower" any more than you should use TPunch because Electivire has higher Attack

Shows that you have no understanding of how damage calculations and EVs work. It is proven that on pokemon like Electivire, Entei, Flareon, Floatzel, and a few others with surprisingly high physical attack, their special attacks will ALWAYS outdamage their physical moves because of base power. So before making such a claim and attack me personally, please make sure you can back it up. And contradicting your own arguments at the end doesn't help either :-D.

 

[Uiru]

I don't think his point was that Thunderbolt was better or worse than Thunderpunch; the point of what was being said was that when it comes time to design your set, attacking off one stat is easier than attacking off two. Where do you put your detriment? -Atk, -SAtk and -Speed are all bad ideas, and Electivire's defences don't need 10% cuts either. And then your EV's? Not many of those to go around. The message I took from his post is that you don't use Thunderbolt or Thunderpunch for power, you use them for whatever matches the rest of the set- Cross Chop and Earthquake want Thunderpunch, while Flamethrower and... Psychic? want Thunderbolt.

Also, screens are pretty nifty and I wish I used them more often.
~Uiru

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

why ... would gyarados EVER switch into an electivire?

I'd love to see a competent player switch rhyperior, scizor, or gyarados into electivire without knowing its set or for sacrificial purposes.

I think it's the other way around guys. Electivire is switched out for Gyarados, Scizor, or Rhyperior, not the other Pokemon are switching into Electivire.

 

[boltscore]

I think it's the other way around guys. Electivire is switched out for Gyarados, Scizor, or Rhyperior, not the other Pokemon are switching into Electivire.

Thank you very much, Jiggy. I apologize for not making that clear. I don't blame Stathakis or KD24, that was my fault entirely.

But, yes, that was what I meant.

 

[Stathakis]

Some easy switch-ins would clearly be Gyarados (that was hard to think of), Rhyperior (if there is a sandstorm, though), Scizor, and Metagross. Other than Gyarados, all of those Pokemon have pretty good Defense, but average Special Defense. They all can stat-up, and...pretty nastily, too.

the way you say it it sounds like you're talking about how they have decent defenses and can set up on evire, and then kd24 got up in your face and i completed the job.

sorry for the misunderstanding =/

anyways, on topic, I do think that raikou or starme could do this better =/

 

[boltscore]

Yeah, I certainly see that. I was meaning that since they generally had better physical Defense, Light Screen would make them less weak to Special attacks.

And I suppose Raikou could do much better, but Electivire certainly has some surprise value, if that counts for anything.

 

[Yagami Light]

I suppose I have to address these points made, it's my fault anyways due to a lack of OP clarity.

1) Electivire does indeed not get Reflect, a pity.

2) Even if Electivire himself is forced out by the next Poke that comes in, odds are that even if Electivire was all out offensive, a similar situation would have occurred, this way you get to have 8 turns of uber Special Defense.

3) Gmax hit the nail on the head as to why this is simply better than Raikou or whatever you'd like. It can switch in on Blissey or anything running an electric move, take full advantage of the speed boost and the free turn that it gets. If they go to a Vire counter, that's a shame but now you have 8 turns of 1/2 damage. If they have no Vire counter, you dish out a few super effective hits and when it's over you'll still have multiple turns of Light Screen. It's not Garchomp, it's not Deoxys-E. It's Electivire trying to fill niche roles.

4) The moveset actually does not particularly matter, it's meant to be fully customizable. If you think your team needs Fire Punch or Ice Punch more, go with that. Tbolt and Tpunch is the same thing. The important "set" is just: Powerful physical move, STAB move, type coverage booster.

5) On it's own, it's not meant to sweep. It can, which also makes it more appealing than weaker screen set uppers mentioned, but it takes advantage of turns to get better sweepers on the field. As mentioned, Gyarados loves the double Special Defense and is a flat out beast because of this.

If there are any other points of confusion, do be sure to tell me. It's just that I saw that only a few people actually understood what the point of this was. It's not a sweeper, it's not a screen set-upper, it's not a wall breaker, it's not a Twave absorber/electric immunity. It's a super flexible hybrid of all these things at once.