NU Gorebyss

Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
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Gorebyss
QC: 3/3 (hollywood, Punchshroom, CanadianWifier)
GP: 2/2 (tehy + P Squared, SM979)

Overview
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Gorebyss's niche in NU lies in its access to the coveted combination of Shell Smash and Baton Pass. It has all the tools it needs to pull off a SmashPass effectively with decent physical bulk, enough Speed to pass against most threats at +2, and a strong matchup against several Haze users and phazers such as Mantine and Rhydon. As such, Gorebyss has several opportunities to pass a boost to your team's sweeper and possibly end the game for your opponent. However, Gorebyss fails to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom and Rotom-S even at +2, leaving it vulnerable to being revenge killed. Its special bulk is also less than stellar, making it difficult to set up against powerful special attackers such as Mismagius. Perhaps most importantly, Gorebyss faces competition from Huntail, which has Sucker Punch to deal with Rotom and Cryogonal. Nonetheless, Gorebyss's significantly better matchups against most of NU's phazers and Haze users are all that it needs to set itself apart from Huntail.

SmashPass
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name: SmashPass
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Scald
move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Electric
ability: Swift Swim
item: White Herb
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Shell Smash raises all of Gorebyss's offensive stats to high levels, and the boosts can be passed with Baton Pass to give one of Gorebyss's teammates a large boost to its offenses, making it very difficult to stop. Scald is a reliable STAB attack that prevents Gorebyss from becoming Taunt bait and allows it to attempt a sweep if it needs to. The 30% chance to inflict a burn can give Gorebyss an easier time setting up if it gets lucky. Substitute helps Gorebyss safely set up a Shell Smash and lets it pass a shield to a teammate in order to protect it from status moves and weaker attacks. Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric deals serious damage to Mantine, whose Haze gives Gorebyss trouble.

Set Details
========

White Herb removes the Defense and Special Defense drops from Shell Smash once. Maximum Speed investment and a Timid nature make Gorebyss as fast as possible in order to be able to pass a Shell Smash before it takes a hit and to outspeed Swellow and Choice Scarf Mesprit at +2. Alternatively, full investment in Special Attack can maximize Gorebyss's offensive capabilities, but it is meant to be used as a supporter and not a sweeper.

Usage Tips
========

Due to Gorebyss's low Speed, it cannot set up a Shell Smash on most users of Taunt, such as Archeops. However, once Gorebyss gets to +2, it will outspeed the entire unboosted metagame and most Choice Scarf users, though it still fails to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom and Rotom-S. Ideally, Gorebyss should use slow, defensive Pokemon such as Uxie for setup bait, as well as Choice-locked Fire-types such as Typhlosion and Pyroar. If necessary, however, Gorebyss's decent bulk and good defensive typing allow it to set up on various offensive Pokemon. Generally, Gorebyss can set up a Shell Smash against most foes that cannot hit it super effectively, including offensive powerhouses such as Kangaskhan and Scyther. Gorebyss can attempt a late-game sweep if it needs to, but it should not be your team's primary sweeper because of its poor coverage and uninvested Special Attack.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that appreciate boosts to their Speed and offensive stats, such as Mesprit, Rotom, Malamar, Cacturne, and Samurott, are excellent recipients of Shell Smash. Gorebyss appreciates Pokemon that can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at it, such as Typhlosion and Rhydon, respectively. Stealth Rock support from users such as Archeops will aid Gorebyss if it must attempt a sweep. Dual screens support from Uxie makes it easier for Gorebyss to set up a Shell Smash and protects the recipient of Shell Smash from a revenge kill. Xatu makes for a great recipient of a Shell Smash boost because of Magic Bounce, which bounces back Whirlwind and Roar. Xatu also enjoys bouncing back Taunt against Pokemon that try to prevent Gorebyss from setting up a Shell Smash.

Other Options
########

Gorebyss can Baton Pass defensive stat boosts by use of Barrier and Amnesia, but it lacks the room and the Speed to use either boosting move effectively. Hydro Pump is a more powerful STAB move than Scald, but Scald hits hard enough as is, and Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy can cause problems. Focus Sash can be used over White Herb to survive a super effective hit from strong attackers such as Choice Specs Rotom, but Gorebyss's teammates will not appreciate receiving a drop to their defenses. Ice Beam hits the Grass-types that threaten Gorebyss, such as Tangela and Vileplume, while Signal Beam hits Ludicolo and Psychic-types such as Mesprit, Uxie, and Jynx. A fully offensive set consisting of Shell Smash and three attacks is usable, but Gorebyss is not a good sweeper due to its low Speed and thus is better off passing offensive boosts to its teammates.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom and Rotom-S**: Choice Scarf Rotom and Rotom-S outspeed Gorebyss even at +2 and can usually OHKO Gorebyss with Thunderbolt if they carry it. Choice Specs Rotom and Rotom-S will always OHKO Gorebyss with Thunderbolt.

**Liepard**: Liepard's Prankster Taunt means it can stop Gorebyss even at +2, and its Prankster Encore means it can turn Shell Smash against Gorebyss entirely.

**Haze Users**: Cryogonal can survive a +2 Scald and either directly OHKO Gorebyss with Freeze-Dry or Haze away the Shell Smash boosts that Gorebyss has accumulated. Mantine can also Haze away Gorebyss's Shell Smash boosts, though it must be careful of Hidden Power Electric.

**Grass-types**: All Grass-types such as Tangela, Lilligant, and Ludicolo can directly switch into Gorebyss's Scald and force it out with their Grass-type STAB attacks.
 
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Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
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to take a t-bolt from rotom, you only need max hp calm nature iirc
Nope.
252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Gorebyss: 272-324 (86.6 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Gorebyss: 290-344 (92.3 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Gorebyss: 248-294 (78.9 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Gorebyss: 264-312 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Nope.
252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Gorebyss: 272-324 (86.6 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Gorebyss: 290-344 (92.3 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Gorebyss: 248-294 (78.9 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Gorebyss: 264-312 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
i was thinking of rotom regular when i said max hp calm. The odds are significantly in your favor to live a t-bolt if max hp calm but you're right, you need to invest to be able to live it 100% of the time
 

Punchshroom

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Unless Surf nabs any KOes that I don't know of, Scald should probably replace it as the main attacking option. Gorebyss is not invested in SpA anyway, so in the event that it attacks it should aim to cripple the foe instead of aiming for more damage; if more damage is desired then Byss can just Baton Pass and let its stronger teammates handle it.

Edit: +2 4 SpA Surf has a good chance to OHKO Sawk and SpD Mega Steelix while Scald has no chance to do so, or to be more exact Surf has a better chance to OHKO them than Scald has a chance to burn them (> ~50% for both cases). That said, Sawk and unevolved Steelix can both have Sturdy and still get in the way of the Pass by KOing Byss or phasing it respectively even with Surf, making Surf less important and only Moves worthy instead of being slashed alongside Scald for this reason.
 
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ryan

Jojo Siwa enthusiast
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Yea I like Scald way more.

Slash Substitute before Ice Beam. Even at +2, you're pretty weak without investment. Like you don't even OHKO Virizion after Rocks and Spikes lol.

The spread you mention in Set Details survives a hit from Choice Specs Rotom-N, not Rotom-S.

Mention in Team Options that Xatu is also a good recipient because of Magic Bounce blocking status moves, Whirlwind, and Roar.

Cut Psychic from OO; it's garbage.

QC 1/3
 

Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
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Thanks Punchshroom and hollywood
I'll implement the checks once I'm on a computer (on my phone now).

EDIT: Done. Ready for the second one!
 
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Punchshroom

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A couple of things.

Haze users should totally be in C&C (perhaps alongside phazers). The likes of Cryogonal, Mantine, and Qwilfish can totally strut up in Gorebyss's face and just get rid of the boosts, wasting Gorebyss's efforts and its White Herb, so if it wants to SmashPass in the future it would have to pass the Defense drops as well.

Also I'll suggest the addition of Hidden Power Electric on Gorebyss's moveset, replacing Ice Beam as the second slash in the last moveslot. HP Electric allows Gorebyss to do major damage to Mantine (finishing off weakened ones) as well as OHKOing Qwilfish. This is a major change since it highlights the pros Gorebyss has over Huntail, which would be the ability to stop Water-type phazers. While Huntail does deal with Cryogonal much easier and HP Electric doesn't even OHKO Mantine (tho Gorebyss can attempt to Shell Smash in front of Mantine and kill it off before passing, albeit with defense drops), it is a very notable advantage for Gorebyss to have. Definitely better than Ice Beam, since Byss can just pass to a Grass resist.
 

Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
A couple of things.

Haze users should totally be in C&C (perhaps alongside phazers). The likes of Cryogonal, Mantine, and Qwilfish can totally strut up in Gorebyss's face and just get rid of the boosts, wasting Gorebyss's efforts and its White Herb, so if it wants to SmashPass in the future it would have to pass the Defense drops as well.

Also I'll suggest the addition of Hidden Power Electric on Gorebyss's moveset, replacing Ice Beam as the second slash in the last moveslot. HP Electric allows Gorebyss to do major damage to Mantine (finishing off weakened ones) as well as OHKOing Qwilfish. This is a major change since it highlights the pros Gorebyss has over Huntail, which would be the ability to stop Water-type phazers. While Huntail does deal with Cryogonal much easier and HP Electric doesn't even OHKO Mantine (tho Gorebyss can attempt to Shell Smash in front of Mantine and kill it off before passing, albeit with defense drops), it is a very notable advantage for Gorebyss to have. Definitely better than Ice Beam, since Byss can just pass to a Grass resist.
Did these.
 

Punchshroom

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An EV spread of 252 HP / 84 SpD / 172 Spe with a Calm nature allows Gorebyss to always survive a Thunderbolt from Choice Scarf Rotom-S
What would this spread prevent Gorebyss from outspeeding after +2? List those Pokemon.

QC 2/3
 

Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
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What would this spread prevent Gorebyss from outspeeding after +2? List those Pokemon.
QC 2/3
It actually outspeeds so few relevant mons that I made the bulky spread the main spread. Will write this up.
Edit: Written.
 
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Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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It actually outspeeds so few relevant mons that I made the bulky spread the main spread. Will write this up.
Edit: Written.
I know Swellow isn't fantastic in the Mega Steelix meta but it probably shouldn't be glossed over (it is about as relevant as Scarf Rotom-S right now, also due to MLix).

Btw, your current spread does not actually always survive Rotom-S's Thunderbolt.
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Gorebyss: 270-318 (85.9 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
I have an alternate spread for you in 252 HP / 48 SpD / 208 Spe @ Calm. While the OHKO chance for Rotom-S's TBolt is now bumped up to 25%, it allows Byss to outspeed Swellow after +2, while still always surviving regular Rotom's Thunderbolt.
252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 48+ SpD Gorebyss: 258-306 (82.1 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gonna get some other QC input from hollywood Montsegur Soulgazer scorpdestroyer on a better possible spread.
 

Empress

The doctor said my mom should've had an abortion
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I know Swellow isn't fantastic in the Mega Steelix meta but it probably shouldn't be glossed over (it is about as relevant as Scarf Rotom-S right now, also due to MLix).

Btw, your current spread does not actually always survive Rotom-S's Thunderbolt.

I have an alternate spread for you in 252 HP / 48 SpD / 208 Spe @ Calm. While the OHKO chance for Rotom-S's TBolt is now bumped up to 25%, it allows Byss to outspeed Swellow after +2, while still always surviving regular Rotom's Thunderbolt.


Gonna get some other QC input from hollywood Montsegur Soulgazer scorpdestroyer on a better possible spread.
I have 84 EVs in my spread, not 72.
252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Gorebyss: 264-312 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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agreeing with max hp max speed, having to run a spdef boosting nature ruins the point of living a rotom-a tbolt due to the fact that you get outsped by a ton more shit that can kill you at +2. fun in theory bad in practice
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
agreeing with max hp max speed, running a SpDef boosting nature ruins the point of my team due to the fact that i'll get swept by i will get swept by a ton more gorebysses that can bp on me at +2. Fun in theory bad for me in practice

srsly, what else do you really miss out on? I recall laddering with scarftom-s and being scared as shit of this spread. Of everything that exists, all I can think of you miss out on is... scarf rotom, which you can tank anyhow (44% after rocks to tank a Tbolt, which isn't necessarily run). Am i missing some mon here, or is scarftom that much better than scarftom-S that you can't afford even a 56% chance of losing to a tbolt variant

Edit: Jeez, i had this the other way round (i knew 1 had 5 speed on the other just forgot which). So, dude, what mons suddenly outspeed you now? I haven't really seen 1 and I can't think of any-not saying i'm the most knowledgeable of NU or anything but i looked through the viability rankings and couldn't see any either. What am i missing?

So far, i guess it's malamar, sawk, mesprit, none of which come close to OHKOing you anyhow. Rather get off more guaranteed passes personally.
 
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CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
wh0sy0urpapa Go through and remove mentions of Steelix, Mega Steelix, Virizion, Qwilfish, and Heliolisk now that they're all gone! I notice you somehow managed to fit all of them into an analysis about Gorebyss, that's impressive :P
 

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