Hm, I just reran the calcs and got 84.8% - 99.8%. I wonder what I did wrong the first time. Well, it has a chance to KO with SR. That being said, even in rain, Hydro Pump is still weaker.
Anyway, here they are, in case you want a closer look.
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Gorebyss
- Thread starter breh
- Start date
Anyway, here they are, in case you want a closer look.
breh
強いだね
Although the fact that it 2HKOes Kingdra with a Water-type move is freaking amazing (and, at that, hilarious) Ice Beam's main purpose is not to OHKO those pokemon but to OHKO bulkier Grass types like Celebi (who is not OHKOed and (I'm fairly sure) OHKOes back with Leaf Storm or anything similar due to the -1 drop and crappy SpD).
In any case, other than providing perfect accuracy, what exactly does Surf accomplish?
@Above: Lol that's hilarious; it leaves it at 1 HP xD
In any case, while Hydro Pump is weaker, I prefer HP Electric simply due to the ability to KO Gyarados (who is admittedly not the greatest of threats) and Vaporeon at the same time; the Water Absorb Water/Grounds are seldom seen and (I think) get OHKOed by Ice Beam unless running very Specially Defensive sets; I don't think I've ever seen many Lanturns in OU either, as they rely on luck from Charge Beam to win.
Perfect accuracy can mean the difference between winning and losing- I can't tell you how many times I've missed with Blizzard/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump at the absolute worst time.
That being said, Hydro Pump 1HKOs and 2HKOs a lot more stuff than Surf does; which could also mean the difference between winning and losing.
I suppose it's always the user's preference on what is the lesser of two evils.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
+2 LO Hydro Pump in the rain always OHKOs 252 HP Celebi.
Surf is important because Hydro Pump has low PP and Surf provides a reliable move to take out steels before they can pHaze, attack, etc. It would suck if Hydro Pump misses against a Forretress that has Explosion.
Perfect accuracy is a huge deal.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Oh.. rain is 1.5x boost, my bad.Hm, I just reran the calcs and got 84.8% - 99.8%. I wonder what I did wrong the first time. Well, it has a chance to KO with SR. That being said, even in rain, Hydro Pump is still weaker.
Anyway, here they are, in case you want a closer look.
Anyways, if lanturn cant be ohkoed then its pretty much a foolproof counter.
come in on shell break, recover off stealth rocks with leftovers, and then 1 hit with thunderbolt.
breh
強いだね
You have a point; the spread that I was using was ridiculously specially defensive (252/252+) and Ice Beam barely managed to KO it. However, I do see that this is a relatively uncommon set for it (and shaymin as well), so it certainly is a viable option.
I'll add it, but I'd like more feedback from others as well.
Noting that Drizzle Politoed may not be here for a while, I decided to see what Gorebyss has on the Gen 4 Ubers:
Gorebyss@Life Orb
Modest; 192 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Speed
Ice Beam
Shell Break
Hydro Pump
Surf / Baton Pass
Gorebyss reaches 299 HP with this spread, max SpA, and 148 speed (which is enough to outrun even Max Speed Timid ScarfTwo in Rain after a Shell Break). The remaining EVs are thrown into Def to aid with priority.
The speed EVs allow Gorebyss to outspeed Adamant Rayquaza after a Shell Break. If you want to outspeed Jolly Rayquaza after a Shell Break, an alternative spread of 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Speed should be used.
Anyways, Surf and Hydro Pump are really all that Gorebyss needs (all calcs assume rain unless stated otherwise, and the bulkiest Specially defensive spread commonly seen on the pokemon):
Gorebyss@Life Orb
Modest; 192 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 32 Speed
Ice Beam
Shell Break
Hydro Pump
Surf / Baton Pass
Gorebyss reaches 299 HP with this spread, max SpA, and 148 speed (which is enough to outrun even Max Speed Timid ScarfTwo in Rain after a Shell Break). The remaining EVs are thrown into Def to aid with priority.
The speed EVs allow Gorebyss to outspeed Adamant Rayquaza after a Shell Break. If you want to outspeed Jolly Rayquaza after a Shell Break, an alternative spread of 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Speed should be used.
Anyways, Surf and Hydro Pump are really all that Gorebyss needs (all calcs assume rain unless stated otherwise, and the bulkiest Specially defensive spread commonly seen on the pokemon):
Basically, Gorebyss is sweeping with Ice Beam and Surf alone, while Hydro Pump does much more damage to the likes of Dialga and bulky Kyogre. It looks to me like Gorebyss is rain's answer to Doryuuzu, as few things, if any, stand in its way during rain (Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch are all resisted and hit Gorebyss's healthy base 105 defense).
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
In OU, the following spread should be used:
Modest
72 HP/12 Def/252 SpA/172 Spe
Remember, it is very important to outspeed ScarfTar who could otherwise OHKO Gorebyss with Stone Edge. If Tyranitar is dead and Politoed is alive, you won't have to worry about weather for the rest of the match. :)
Modest
72 HP/12 Def/252 SpA/172 Spe
Remember, it is very important to outspeed ScarfTar who could otherwise OHKO Gorebyss with Stone Edge. If Tyranitar is dead and Politoed is alive, you won't have to worry about weather for the rest of the match. :)
If you wanna deal with Blissey and vaporeon, subsitute can deal with the former, while toxic kills the latter. Obviously, it will be very clunky running break, sub, and toxic on one moveset.
For the luls
140 Atk EVs, bringing the Attack stat to 239; + 2 Attack Hasty LO Gorebyss Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Defense Bold Blissey - 86.1% - 101.4% Oh God.
Rain is going to be so broken(er)...
Does Huntail get Shell Break too? Because it's a perfect candidate for a Mixed Rain Sweeper and better than Gorebyss in my eyes c;
140 Atk EVs, bringing the Attack stat to 239; + 2 Attack Hasty LO Gorebyss Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Defense Bold Blissey - 86.1% - 101.4% Oh God.
Rain is going to be so broken(er)...
Does Huntail get Shell Break too? Because it's a perfect candidate for a Mixed Rain Sweeper and better than Gorebyss in my eyes c;
Huntail
55 / 104 / 105 / 94 / 75 / 52
Gorebyss
55 / 84 / 105 / 114 / 75 / 52
Huntail seems better rounded, as Gorebyss primarily exceeds in SpA while Huntai could easily fill the role of both a Special and Physical attacker. But back to Al Gorebyss. What a beast.
I can't believe there's not a thread on Huntail yet D;
55 / 104 / 105 / 94 / 75 / 52
Gorebyss
55 / 84 / 105 / 114 / 75 / 52
Huntail seems better rounded, as Gorebyss primarily exceeds in SpA while Huntai could easily fill the role of both a Special and Physical attacker. But back to Al Gorebyss. What a beast.
I can't believe there's not a thread on Huntail yet D;
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Gorebyss is better than Huntail (generally) because it deals more damage to every single Pokemon in the game with the exception of Pokemon like Roserade and Blissey (Pokes that have WAYYY more Special Defense than physical defense).
Here, Gorebyss hits a Poke with WAY higher special defense than physical defense and still out-damages Huntail:
Gorebyss: +2 252 SpA Modest Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Calm Suicune: 61.6% - 72.8%
Huntail: +2 252 Atk Adamant Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Calm Suicune: 58.7% - 69.3%
By and large, Gorebyss' attacking prowess will outclass Huntail's. Gorebyss does not even have to go mixed as it is already able to OHKO Blissey. Huntail can work as a mixed sweeper, I guess, but its only real purpose would be to guarantee the OHKO on Blissey (and generally this is not worth it, since you are now unable to KO Pokemon like Celebi and Gyarados).
Anyway, these EVs (on Gorebyss) guarantee that +2 Aqua Tail in the rain OHKOs Blissey (it sucks that you would have to place it over either Surf, Hydro Pump or Baton Pass, though). I would generally recommend running it with Surf, Ice Beam, and Baton Pass (however, without Hydro, RestTalk Gyarados and Shuffle Cune have an easier time Roaring you out). Placing it over Baton Pass isn't really an option, as you are walled to hell by Vaporeon, and you would have no way of escaping.
Rash
110 Atk/224 SpA/172 Spe
huntail and Gorebyss are different Pokemon with somewhat similar movepools. Huntail functions as a Mixed Sweeper, Gorebyss as a really strong full Sp. Atk Sweeper and both can function as Baton Passers, particularly with White Herb. Also, lulz broken Clamperl.
that was an epic necro.......lol
Adding on to that, I prefer Huntail for its superior mixed sweeping stats, though Gorebyss is better at specialization than Huntail.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
It seems like this isn't as groundbreaking as we all thought it would be. The problem with Gorebyss is that it doesn't really have any sort of function outside of sweeping (Kingdra revenges stuff, Manaphy breaks stall, etc.). It's also extremely hard to set up a shell break safely; you have to come in on something like scarf Flamethrower.
This thing could be deadly if put into the right hands, but with all of the priority and Mischievous heart users running around, it's not easy at all to sweep.
This thing could be deadly if put into the right hands, but with all of the priority and Mischievous heart users running around, it's not easy at all to sweep.
Agreeing with the above poster.Gerobyss and the majority of Shell breakers arent too much of a big deal.There all not very good sweepers and the move just has such crappy distribution.Its quite hard to set up as well.And on rain teams its almost always more productive to outright attack with those super powered Double Stab moves instead of trying to set up as it causes more confusion as its somewhat hard to maintain both the rain and try to set up at the same time.