SM OU Greninja in the rain

[Traindl]

I have been working on this team for awhile now, made many changes tested different pokes/items everything and i am not getting results i want. I feel like there is many flaws here. I am not the best at battling but i want to improve myself and this team as well, and in making myself better i want to use this team to its fullest. So please be brutality honest about this team and give many suggestions rather it be from simple EV spreads to completely changing a poke, I am open for everything. Lets get to the Team!

Team at a glance

In-depth

Greninja-Ash @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory
- U-turn

I went with life orb over specs in this case so i don't get moved locked late game where Ash-Greninja excels at cleaning up the game for me. With Pelipper/Toad drizzle support Water Shuriken Hits very hard. Dark pulse is another stab that hits hard, helps against Metsgross/Mew. I choose Extrasensory because my team kinda gets walled by bulky water types such as Toxapex/Tapu fini. 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 140-166 (46 - 54.6%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO Toxapex. U-turn is there to help pivot around. I normally try to get Battle Bond as soon as possible and use him to clean up late or plow through pokes.

Pelipper (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn

Pelipper has really good synergy with greninja. Provides Rain for all water type attacks to hit harder and checks Buzzwole/Pheromosa. I normally lead with Pelipper to get rain started and most of the time gets a KO or some nice damage down so Greninja can come to battle bond or pivot into a different poke to gain momentum. I like Focus sash here alot, especially against lead Pheromosa's to OHKO it with a hurricane. U-turn allows me to pivot into other pokes and save for defog later so my team doesn't get phased.

Kingdra (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
​

Since its a rain team i need a swift swim user and decided on Kingdra. Kingdra gives me nice dragon coverage while taking neutral electric hits since i run 4 water types. Hydro Pump gets a big boost in the rain and is pretty much a main stay. Draco Meteor/Ice beam just takes care Dragons/Grass types that can be a problem. I went with HP Electric here to help against Bulky waters like Toxapex/Fini. I went with life orb so i have the option to switch through moves, and alot of players expect Choice specs so when they switch i have potential for another KO.

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- U-Turn

Tapu koko is here to just clean house. He checks many potential threat such as, Non Choice scarfed Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Skarmory, Tapu Fini, Toxapex. Hidden Power ice is very nice when you predict a switch into a ground type, then HP ice turns into a 2HKO. U-turn is used here for when they have a Marowak/Dugtrio so i don't get trapped or baited into a Lightning Rod.

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Night Slash


Kartana has a great niche in this team. With rain up it weakens fire type attacks, given how frail it is, sometimes it doesn't help much unless its by a Fire Fang or Fire Punch. He checks Bulky water types as well as steel types. I went with Choice Band here to increase his already insane damage output. With choice band It OHKOs max defensive Tapu fini, OHKOs non scarfed Lele, Milotic which other wise can wall or cause problems for my team.

Politoed (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Focus Blast

I felt i need another Drizzle ability to utilize kingdra/Greninja the most, Especially since sand teams can be a problem and they normally run double Sandstream users. I went with Assualt Vest to boost his already good defensive stats and help with switching. Went with 4 good coverage moves to just hit things.

​

Threatlist

MegaMetagross- can be a big problem for my team do deal with. Greninja can only 2HKO it with darkpulse, and thats not always possible to do since greninja can't take a hit well. I have to hope Metagross has taken enough damage for greninja to come in for the KO.

Tapu Bulu- Bulu can be a huge threat if i don't have Kartana or Pelipper to KO it. Walls greninja can OHKOs with a Horn leech. Wood Hammer/Bloom Doom is enough to OHKO my entire team. I have to make sure my checks for him are alive otherwise its a loss.

Tapu Fini+Marowak- Together these to kinda wall my team. Koko/Kartana are the only one that can OHKO fini, but with Marowak in the back i can't T-Bolt with koko. I have to hope Kartana is up and i predict the switch and OHKO marowak with Night Slash.
​

Tapu Koko- Kokos great speed mixed with his high special attack he can potential OHKO almost my whole team with a T-bolt. Me not having a ground type makes it very easy for Koko to go through my team. I have to hope my Koko wins the speed tie.

Tapu Lele- Scarfed tapu lele with outspeed my whole team. and stops Water Shuriken from Greninja. Psychic's are to much for my team to deal with besides AV Politoad. If the Lele has T-bolt it becomes a huge problem.

 

[Oraim]

I like this rain team, and I would like to put some of my suggestions here.

• For Greninja, don't put Life Orb on it because it's a waste of health every time you U-Turn and your opponent will switch into something that resist bug. I would recommend giving it Expert Belt. This allows you to make the opponent think that you are using Choice Specs. Life Orb's power isn't really needed for late game cleaning, since the opponents team is already weakened.
• The opponent will know your Kingdra has a Life Orb once you Attack, so don't use Life Orb. I highly recommend Choice Specs, but it seems that you dislike being locked into Choice items. But still, it's the best item for Kingdra since its special Attack is not that awesome. And Expert Belt or Life Orb wouldn't do much.
• Again, put Choice Specs on it. I recommend placing Volt Switch with Dazzling Gleam since U-Turn can deal damage to every type. Life Orb will just weaken you down, then your opponent will end you with a priority move. Also, replace Thunderbolt with Thunder.
• Nice Kartana set. You can also replace Night Slash with Sacred sword for fighting coverage against Ferrothorn. BandKartana is such a wallbreaker.

Overall, your Rain team is not bad. With Tapu Koko weakening and cleaning teams, Greninja cleaning late game, Kingdra and Kartana weakening and clearing threats, Pelipper and Politoed providing weather support. Just a reminder. Life Orb is not really that good as it wears you down. Your opponent can make use of it and pick you off with priority moves. I highly encourage getting Choice Specs on Kingdra and Tapu Koko.

 

[Traindl]

I like this rain team, and I would like to put some of my suggestions here.

• For Greninja, don't put Life Orb on it because it's a waste of health every time you U-Turn and your opponent will switch into something that resist bug. I would recommend giving it Expert Belt. This allows you to make the opponent think that you are using Choice Specs. Life Orb's power isn't really needed for late game cleaning, since the opponents team is already weakened.
• The opponent will know your Kingdra has a Life Orb once you Attack, so don't use Life Orb. I highly recommend Choice Specs, but it seems that you dislike being locked into Choice items. But still, it's the best item for Kingdra since its special Attack is not that awesome. And Expert Belt or Life Orb wouldn't do much.
• Again, put Choice Specs on it. I recommend placing Volt Switch with Dazzling Gleam since U-Turn can deal damage to every type. Life Orb will just weaken you down, then your opponent will end you with a priority move. Also, replace Thunderbolt with Thunder.
• Nice Kartana set. You can also replace Night Slash with Sacred sword for fighting coverage against Ferrothorn. BandKartana is such a wallbreaker.

Overall, your Rain team is not bad. With Tapu Koko weakening and cleaning teams, Greninja cleaning late game, Kingdra and Kartana weakening and clearing threats, Pelipper and Politoed providing weather support. Just a reminder. Life Orb is not really that good as it wears you down. Your opponent can make use of it and pick you off with priority moves. I highly encourage getting Choice Specs on Kingdra and Tapu Koko.

Thanks for the suggestions. I see where the 3 life orbs will hurt me alot. Choice specs on kingdra is definitely helping to clean up easier or OHKO switchins with a STAB rain+specs boosted Hydro pump. Same for Koko as well , specs is a much better option that has been working alot better. I never thought to try out Expert Belt on Greninja and i am testing it alot with good out comes. I always thought Band Kartana should be a thing, and it helps do insane damage to Special Walls like chancy which walls my other 5 pokemon. Kartana is currently running both Scared sword and Nightslash, do you recommend a different move?

My team is struggling against strong electric hitters like Tapu Koko/Xurkitree, do you recommend switching Politoad out for a ground type to help with that? As of now i have no switchins for Tapu Koko, besides my own which will lose 50% of it hp easy.

 

[Traindl]

Hey!

So yea, the team clearly has something, but you can improve some stuff I think.

As Oraim said, Life Orb isn't that good on Ashninja at all, you should try Specs, or Expert Belt.
Also, playing Greninja under rain sounds cool, but you don't have any real water STABs, Water Shuriken only does 60, like Water Pulse lmao. You should consider running HPump/Scald/Surf on one of your moves, maybe U-Turn, since it doesnt really provide a great voltturn with Koko.

Even though I don't like the idea of having 2 rain setters, I think you should get Damp Rock on one of them, probably Politoed so you could get a real moveset, using his great supportive Movepool.

Life Orb Koko is a waste too, your only role is to get momentum, so losing hp, switching on rocks and all of those stuff while make it dies quickly. Actually, since your only "damaging move" is TBolt, Zap Plate is clearly better.
You should get rid of Volt Switch, and here comes the prob of Koko's disgusting movepool, Brave Bird is working tho!

Specs is cooler on Kindgra, and maybe you should run a second water stab too, like old keldeo's, you really DONT NEED HP Electric!

Pelipper dont really needs scald, Hurricane is already cool to abuse rain.
Defog + Sash is the most stupid thing ever, you should just run a defensive spread on it, and replace Scald by Roost to have a pivot potential with rocks up if you dont have the tempo to remove them.

My changes

Tapu Koko @ Zap Plate
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Brave Bird
- U-Turn

Obviously don't use a Naive Nature if you're not running Brave Bird


Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Scald/Surf

Pelipper (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs / Expert Belt
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory / Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald / Ice Beam
- U-turn / Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald / Ice Beam
While writing this I noticed Venu wasn't a big deal to your team, so Extrasensory could be replaced too if you really like U-Turn, you could also run Ice Beam on the other one if you change both

About Politoed, I'd recommand you to check old gens build there, adding Damp Rock to the 5G sets : http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/politoed/

Thanks for you input. You are definitely right about the Pelipper build making no sense, do you think i should go a more defensive build with it and maybe go Bold with 248hp/196def/64spdef? I gave both Kingdra and KoKo Choice specs, as well as changing HP Electric to Surf. Hp electric doesn't do enough Damage, even when it hits for super effective damage.

This is My greninja Change, and it works much better. More coverage and an actual Damaging Water attack.

Greninja-Ash @ Expert Belt
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam


My team is struggling against strong electric hitters like Tapu Koko/Xurkitree. Since you stated the dislike of having 2 Drizzle users, do you recommend switching Politoad out for a ground type to help with that? As of now i have no switchins for Tapu Koko, besides my own which will lose 50% of it hp easy.

 

[Oraim]

I heard that Hidden Power Ice is common on Specs Tapu Koko now and it is able to threaten Ground types that are weak to it. As for Kartana, another move I recommend is Psycho Cut as it threatens fighting types. I recommend replacing Night Slash for it. I've seen many rain teams with only one Rain setter which is Pelipper. I'm still working out to find out which Ground type suits well that can replace Politoed.

Edit: I found a guy that can deal with Koko and Xurki. And that is Marowak Alolan with Lightning Rod.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 112 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake / Bonemarang
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp

I got this set from Smogon, and I believe that you can run to good success with it. Lightning Rod allows you to switch into Volt Switches and Electric STAB moves from Koko and Xurki. I chose Fire Punch over Flare Blitz because it wears you down and you will need Marowak most of the time. You won't be using it in the rain though. Will-O-Wisp allows you to burn threats that go into battle after Tapu Koko switches out fearing Earthquake/Bonemarang. Bonemarang can be used for breaking Focus Sash, while Earthquake is used for good accuracy. Shadow Bone deals with others that resist Ground and Fire moves. Here's the link.

http://m.smogon.com/forums/threads/alola-marowak.3587366/

 

[Traindl]

I heard that Hidden Power Ice is common on Specs Tapu Koko now and it is able to threaten Ground types that are weak to it. As for Kartana, another move I recommend is Psycho Cut as it threatens fighting types. I recommend replacing Night Slash for it. I've seen many rain teams with only one Rain setter which is Pelipper. I'm still working out to find out which Ground type suits well that can replace Politoed.

Edit: I found a guy that can deal with Koko and Xurki. And that is Marowak Alolan with Lightning Rod.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 112 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake / Bonemarang
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp

I got this set from Smogon, and I believe that you can run to good success with it. Lightning Rod allows you to switch into Volt Switches and Electric STAB moves from Koko and Xurki. I chose Fire Punch over Flare Blitz because it wears you down and you will need Marowak most of the time. You won't be using it in the rain though. Will-O-Wisp allows you to burn threats that go into battle after Tapu Koko switches out fearing Earthquake/Bonemarang. Bonemarang can be used for breaking Focus Sash, while Earthquake is used for good accuracy. Shadow Bone deals with others that resist Ground and Fire moves. Here's the link.

http://m.smogon.com/forums/threads/alola-marowak.3587366/

Nice suggestion ill start testing this. The only problems i can see is tapu fini still able to wall it, but i have other pokes to deal with fini(Kartana, Koko), and if Xuriktree is running HP Ground. I was originally testing out Garchomp with PoisonJab+Poisonium Z combo to kill Fini, while also having the tools to KO Xurkitree and Koko.

 

[ElectricZangoose]

This looks like a really good rain list! But wouldn't Alowak's Fire Attatcks be weakened by the rain?

Anyway, I hope I can face off against this list sometime! I'd love to use my Sunny Day team against it. It would be interesting!

(IGN: Autoschediasm)(In case you want to battle)

 

[ElectricZangoose]

I heard that Hidden Power Ice is common on Specs Tapu Koko now and it is able to threaten Ground types that are weak to it. As for Kartana, another move I recommend is Psycho Cut as it threatens fighting types. I recommend replacing Night Slash for it. I've seen many rain teams with only one Rain setter which is Pelipper. I'm still working out to find out which Ground type suits well that can replace Politoed.

Edit: I found a guy that can deal with Koko and Xurki. And that is Marowak Alolan with Lightning Rod.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 112 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake / Bonemarang
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp

I got this set from Smogon, and I believe that you can run to good success with it. Lightning Rod allows you to switch into Volt Switches and Electric STAB moves from Koko and Xurki. I chose Fire Punch over Flare Blitz because it wears you down and you will need Marowak most of the time. You won't be using it in the rain though. Will-O-Wisp allows you to burn threats that go into battle after Tapu Koko switches out fearing Earthquake/Bonemarang. Bonemarang can be used for breaking Focus Sash, while Earthquake is used for good accuracy. Shadow Bone deals with others that resist Ground and Fire moves. Here's the link.

http://m.smogon.com/forums/threads/alola-marowak.3587366/

Oh...>facepalm< Riiiight....you wouldn't use Alowak in the rain....lol sorry. My mistake.

 

[Oraim]

Oh...>facepalm< Riiiight....you wouldn't use Alowak in the rain....lol sorry. My mistake.

What I meant was Marowak not using Fire Punch in the rain. I didn say not using Marowak in the rain.

 

[false]

yo Traindl,

this team looks a little bit weak to choice scarf pheromosa, as well as tapu lele, while also lacking stealth rock, a necessary component for every competitive team. the changes i'm suggesting look to best support the offensive rain core which the team is built around, while also optimising the sets and spreads of all the pokemon.

->

| change kartana to mega metagross | i contemplated on whether mega scizor or mega metagross would be a better fit in this slot and ended up deciding that mega metagross' better speed tier and immediate power would make it a better fit on this team. mega metagross provides a reliable answer to threats such as tapu lele, which it can trap with pursuit, while also providing a check to threats such as latios and tapu bulu. hammer arm + zen headbutt are the coverage moves i decided on, and enables mega metagross to hit defensive threats such as ferrothorn and rotom-w.

->| change politoed to landorus-t | rain doesn't require multiple setters to be effective and with the introduction of pelipper, politoed has almost no niche on rain teams. landorus works well in its place, providing a number of key immunities to ground- and electric-types, while also providing stealth rock. your team also lacked a z-move, which enables landorus-t to carry either rockium z or flyinium z (both are viable options) which assists it in breaking down common rain stops such as amoonguss, tangrowth and tapu fini.

other tweaks/comments​

• 
  | change pelipper to leftovers + defensive spread | hurricane, u-turn, knock off, roost | a defensive spread on pelipper much better benefits this team, enabling pelipper to check threats such as pheromosa and mega scizor. knock off is an underrated move on pelipper which i think provides fantastic support for the offensive pokemon on this team, knocking off defensive threats such as rotom-w and ferrothorn can make them considerably easier to wear down. the listed speed evs allow pelipper to outspeed max speed neutral natured alolan-marowak.
• | change ash-greninja to splash plate | hydro pump, dark pulse, water shuriken, taunt | splash plate + taunt allows greninja to support its teammates by pressuring defensive pokemon such as ferrothorn, chansey, and toxapex, while also effectively bluffing the popular choice specs set. hydro pump is a necessary move on ash-greninja, since it is greninja's strongest stab move, further boosted by rain.
• 
  | change kingdra to choice specs | while life orb may seem like a good item in theory, the increased power provided by choice specs enables kingdra to be much more threatening. choice specs kingdra has the ability to 2hko rotom-w without stealth rock, while also having the power to ohko offensive threats such as mega metagross and tapu bulu. choice specs also has the benefit of not chipping away at kingdra's hp; keeping it healthy allows it to stay out of range of some priority attacks, while also switch in more times on hazards.
• 
  | change tapu koko to zap plate | if you're not going to opt to run thunder on life orb tapu koko (which is definitely a viable option to consider on this team) zap plate is the superior item. without being worn down by life orb, tapu koko keeps itself out of range of priority, which is useful when facing pokemon such as scizor, which tapu koko can often end up being relied upon to check. this also enables tapu koko to avoid being knocked out from choice specs greninja's water shuriken in the rain (pre evolution)

importable

 

[Traindl]

yo Traindl,

this team looks a little bit weak to choice scarf pheromosa, as well as tapu lele, while also lacking stealth rock, a necessary component for every competitive team. the changes i'm suggesting look to best support the offensive rain core which the team is built around, while also optimising the sets and spreads of all the pokemon.

->

| change kartana to mega metagross | i contemplated on whether mega scizor or mega metagross would be a better fit in this slot and ended up deciding that mega metagross' better speed tier and immediate power would make it a better fit on this team. mega metagross provides a reliable answer to threats such as tapu lele, which it can trap with pursuit, while also providing a check to threats such as latios and tapu bulu. hammer arm + zen headbutt are the coverage moves i decided on, and enables mega metagross to hit defensive threats such as ferrothorn and rotom-w.

->| change politoed to landorus-t | rain doesn't require multiple setters to be effective and with the introduction of pelipper, politoed has almost no niche on rain teams. landorus works well in its place, providing a number of key immunities to ground- and electric-types, while also providing stealth rock. your team also lacked a z-move, which enables landorus-t to carry either rockium z or flyinium z (both are viable options) which assists it in breaking down common rain stops such as amoonguss, tangrowth and tapu fini.

other tweaks/comments​

• 
  | change pelipper to leftovers + defensive spread | hurricane, u-turn, knock off, roost | a defensive spread on pelipper much better benefits this team, enabling pelipper to check threats such as pheromosa and mega scizor. knock off is an underrated move on pelipper which i think provides fantastic support for the offensive pokemon on this team, knocking off defensive threats such as rotom-w and ferrothorn can make them considerably easier to wear down. the listed speed evs allow pelipper to outspeed max speed neutral natured alolan-marowak.
• | change ash-greninja to splash plate | hydro pump, dark pulse, water shuriken, taunt | splash plate + taunt allows greninja to support its teammates by pressuring defensive pokemon such as ferrothorn, chansey, and toxapex, while also effectively bluffing the popular choice specs set. hydro pump is a necessary move on ash-greninja, since it is greninja's strongest stab move, further boosted by rain.
• 
  | change kingdra to choice specs | while life orb may seem like a good item in theory, the increased power provided by choice specs enables kingdra to be much more threatening. choice specs kingdra has the ability to 2hko rotom-w without stealth rock, while also having the power to ohko offensive threats such as mega metagross and tapu bulu. choice specs also has the benefit of not chipping away at kingdra's hp; keeping it healthy allows it to stay out of range of some priority attacks, while also switch in more times on hazards.
• 
  | change tapu koko to zap plate | if you're not going to opt to run thunder on life orb tapu koko (which is definitely a viable option to consider on this team) zap plate is the superior item. without being worn down by life orb, tapu koko keeps itself out of range of priority, which is useful when facing pokemon such as scizor, which tapu koko can often end up being relied upon to check. this also enables tapu koko to avoid being knocked out from choice specs greninja's water shuriken in the rain (pre evolution)

importable

I will try out these changes forsure. Thanks alot for your input!