Pokémon Gyarados

[SketchUp]

The most important thing to choose Crunch is the fact that there are much less pokemon that resist it and because of,STAB. But what about the 4th moveslot?

Crunch+Waterfall is resisted by only 9 viable OU pokemon, where Waterfall+Icefang is resisted by almost every water type and Waterfall+EQ by almost every grass type, gyarados and flying dragons

Waterfall + Crunch is obvious and the last moveslot leaves you with much options

Taunt
Really useful against Ferrothorn and such pokemon. As shown before a Crunch already does more,than EQ (iron barbs sucks tho) so Taunt reallly is,a nice choice

Substitute
The lack of leftovers really suck as you don't have any form of recovery. If you want to get healthy after a few subs you need (healing) wish support. I don't see very much advantages either, as versus offense, a DD already helps a lot and vs balance / stall Taunt is better

Ice Fang vs EQ vs Stone Edge
Ice Fang + the 2 STABs is only resisted by Azumarill, Keldeo and Greninja.
EQ has to worry about Chesnaught and Breloom.
Stone Edge is resisted by Keldeo, Breloom and Chesnaught

Just looked quickly at the type coverage tool and in OU
Weak to either Ice Fang, Crunch or Waterfall: 30
Weak to either Earthquake, Crunch or Waterfall: 24
Weak to either Stone,Edge, Waterfall or,Crunch: 24
Earthquake's much higher BP makes it much more useful than Ice,Fang. I don't see,a point in running Ice Fang as coverage anymore because with Crunch Earthquake provides much more offensive pressure
Stone Edge has kinda,the same coverage as EQ, but is less accurate. I can't think.of a mon that Waterfall+Crunch+EQ doesn't hit hard, but is hit hard by Stone Edge outside D-Nite

I understand why IcefT Fang was run in XY pretty often. I've actually seen Ice Fang surprisingly often to hit Dragonite and Chomp hard (more than payback and stone edge) but with the addition of Crunch, the moveslot that has to go is Ice Fang / Stone Edge

TL;DR
Earthquake > Stone Edge and Ice Fang
Taunt > Substitute

 

[MrStallion]

I'm currently running an all attacking set since not using mold breaker EQ would just be disappointing for me

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Thats just enough speed to outspeed M-Manectric and other base 135s at +1 so I also don't have to worry about bunnys HJK's

Edit: Changing to 252 Spe EVs because 248 can outrun base 145s so you might as well go max speed

 

[napty]

As MrStallion said, it'd be some kind of waste to not use EarthQuake... even if Mold Breaker still has utility with Multiscale and stuff like Water Absorb or Unaware. I don't really think the addition of Crunch will change a lot for Gyarados, finally.

 

[Kyuzeth]

As MrStallion said, it'd be some kind of waste to not use EarthQuake... even if Mold Breaker still has utility with Multiscale and stuff like Water Absorb or Unaware. I don't really think the addition of Crunch will change a lot for Gyarados, finally.

I do think Mega Gyarados no longer being walled by Slowbro is kind of a big deal. That was a Pokémon it previously couldn't break through. Also worth mentioning are hitting Mew supereffectively and striking the Eons for a crapload more damage than Ice Fang. Crunch is definitely an amazing option for Mega Gyarados.

 

[napty]

So Crunch will definitly replace Ice Fang in the DD set?

 

[Kyuzeth]

So Crunch will definitly replace Ice Fang in the DD set?

Considering Waterfall already does quite a number to Gliscor and Landorus-T (only a little less counting STAB; 240 from Waterfall and 260 from Ice Fang), Crunch is absolutely the better option. Mega Gyarados always struggled against Chesnaught and will struggle even more now that the latter got Synthesis and Drain Punch, so yep; to summarize, Crunch is superior.

 

[Jaroda]

What's nice about Gyarados is that it still has a great ability that coupled with Dragon Dance make it able to handle both defensive and offensive style teams. Gyarados can Taunt right through Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce, and Slowbro's Oblivious if it tries to CM beforehand. Two of the best megas that stall got, Gyara maims them both with Mold Breaker Crunch, almost better than anything else in fact.

Many of Gyara's checks are taken care of by Greninja. Greninja can Gunk Shot Chesnaught, Azumarill and Mega Altaria, or Ice Beam two of them if they are weaker on SpD. Scarf versions can also take care of Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill and Mega Salamence.

 

[Norne]

What's nice about Gyarados is that it still has a great ability that coupled with Dragon Dance make it able to handle both defensive and offensive style teams. Gyarados can Taunt right through Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce, and Slowbro's Oblivious if it tries to CM beforehand. Two of the best megas that stall got, Gyara maims them both with Mold Breaker Crunch, almost better than anything else in fact.

Many of Gyara's checks are taken care of by Greninja. Greninja can Gunk Shot Chesnaught, Azumarill and Mega Altaria, or Ice Beam two of them if they are weaker on SpD. Scarf versions can also take care of Mega Sceptile, Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill and Mega Salamence.

Indeed, thats the reason I love Mgyarados taunt. I admit crunch is amazing but a properly timed moldbreaker taunt can buy you so many setup oportunities its amazing.

 

[Ash Borer]

Considering Waterfall already does quite a number to Gliscor and Landorus-T (only a little less counting STAB; 240 from Waterfall and 260 from Ice Fang), Crunch is absolutely the better option. Mega Gyarados always struggled against Chesnaught and will struggle even more now that the latter got Synthesis and Drain Punch, so yep; to summarize, Crunch is superior.

ice's fang's main target for a long time was Mega Venusaur. But crunch hits it nearly as hard, and has too many other benefits to think about using ice fang instead of it.

 

[Jin White]

Hello, huge gyarados fanboy checking in.

I want to get some opinions on Jolly vs. Adamant for the new ORAS meta. Gyarados only gets better & better w/ each iteration and Crunch is much more of a boon than people are giving it credit for; its biggest answers in Slowbro, Ferrothorn, physically defensive Celebi & Mew are now hit harder than ever. It's also singularly equipped to fuck over ORAS' premiere defensive megas, M-Sableye + M-Slowbro. I always ran the Adamant 216 speed in XY to get the jump on Greninja at +1. However, ORAS has brought a massive speed creep, and my friend pointed this out to me:

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Outspeeds base 145 speed M-Sceptile (and M-Beedrill) to OHKO with just one boost.

Mega Mane is the other big threat; if you opt for EQ over Taunt on the last slot you can actually OHKO it at +1 (i.e. neutral after the Intimidate drop), and even without EQ the STAB moves are doing 63-75%.

I guess the question is whether or not Jolly misses out on any crucial 2HKOs/OHKOs. Right now it's actually looking like Jolly could be more important than Adamant in this meta.

EDIT: for the record -
max speed Adamant (391 at +1) outruns base 128s... pointless down to maybe Low Kick Weavile right now (base 125) or else Greninja (base 122)
248 EV Jolly (429 at +1) outruns up to base 145, which notably adds M-Sceptile, M-Beedrill, M-Lopunny, M-Manectric

 

[pika pal]

Hello, huge gyarados fanboy checking in.

I want to get some opinions on Jolly vs. Adamant for the new ORAS meta. Gyarados only gets better & better w/ each iteration and Crunch is much more of a boon than people are giving it credit for; its biggest answers in Slowbro, Ferrothorn, physically defensive Celebi & Mew are now hit harder than ever. It's also singularly equipped to fuck over ORAS' premiere defensive megas, M-Sableye + M-Slowbro. I always ran the Adamant 216 speed in XY to get the jump on Greninja at +1. However, ORAS has brought a massive speed creep, and my friend pointed this out to me:

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Outspeeds base 145 speed M-Sceptile (and M-Beedrill) to OHKO with just one boost.

Mega Mane is the other big threat; if you opt for EQ over Taunt on the last slot you can actually OHKO it at +1 (i.e. neutral after the Intimidate drop), and even without EQ the STAB moves are doing 63-75%.

I guess the question is whether or not Jolly misses out on any crucial 2HKOs/OHKOs. Right now it's actually looking like Jolly could be more important than Adamant in this meta.

EDIT: for the record -
max speed Adamant (391 at +1) outruns base 128s... pointless down to maybe Low Kick Weavile right now (base 125) or else Greninja (base 122)
248 EV Jolly (429 at +1) outruns up to base 145, which notably adds M-Sceptile, M-Beedrill, M-Lopunny, M-Manectric

I'd say continue with Adamant. With the exception of Manectric, Gyarados can set up a second DD if it stays in Base Form and keeps its typing, moreso with Intimidate for Bee and Lop.

Gyarados does have the option to run Jolly, but the Adamant sets can maintain their viability if Gyarados' typing change is accounted for. Especially since Waterfall will be the move of choice anyway outside SE/Water-Resists. A lot of the new Megas that threaten one form have to be wary of the other.

 

[hey yal]

Hello, huge gyarados fanboy checking in.

I want to get some opinions on Jolly vs. Adamant for the new ORAS meta. Gyarados only gets better & better w/ each iteration and Crunch is much more of a boon than people are giving it credit for; its biggest answers in Slowbro, Ferrothorn, physically defensive Celebi & Mew are now hit harder than ever. It's also singularly equipped to fuck over ORAS' premiere defensive megas, M-Sableye + M-Slowbro. I always ran the Adamant 216 speed in XY to get the jump on Greninja at +1. However, ORAS has brought a massive speed creep, and my friend pointed this out to me:

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Outspeeds base 145 speed M-Sceptile (and M-Beedrill) to OHKO with just one boost.

Mega Mane is the other big threat; if you opt for EQ over Taunt on the last slot you can actually OHKO it at +1 (i.e. neutral after the Intimidate drop), and even without EQ the STAB moves are doing 63-75%.

I guess the question is whether or not Jolly misses out on any crucial 2HKOs/OHKOs. Right now it's actually looking like Jolly could be more important than Adamant in this meta.

EDIT: for the record -
max speed Adamant (391 at +1) outruns base 128s... pointless down to maybe Low Kick Weavile right now (base 125) or else Greninja (base 122)
248 EV Jolly (429 at +1) outruns up to base 145, which notably adds M-Sceptile, M-Beedrill, M-Lopunny, M-Manectric

hey jin. personally, i'd suggest jolly because you get the jump on jolly base 70s before setting up the dd. situations where this can work is preventing breloom's spore (if you are a man) , swamps rain dance, bisharp's sd (although this is unlikely) and skarms hazards/ defog which can be super useful combined with taunt. other than that, you get to outspeed base 145s and lower which is p darn good. i'm not saying adamant isn't good, but i prefer jolly :D

 

[Jin White]

hey jin. personally, i'd suggest jolly because you get the jump on jolly base 70s before setting up the dd. situations where this can work is preventing breloom's spore (if you are a man) , swamps rain dance, bisharp's sd (although this is unlikely) and skarms hazards/ defog which can be super useful combined with taunt. other than that, you get to outspeed base 145s and lower which is p darn good. i'm not saying adamant isn't good, but i prefer jolly :D

i lost a match because of a crazy fast taunt skarm once D: couldn't set up w/ gyara when i needed to.

& outspeeding breloom is always fkin useful, though dual STAB + taunt now struggles to hit breloom for any meaningful damage.

'mons that resist water / dark:
waters: keldeo, azumarill, greninja, sharpedo, crawdaunt, mega gyara, (poliwrath)
grass: breloom, chesnaught, (whimsicott, virizion, shiftry, cacturne)
dragon: hydreigon

offensively, flying, fairy, poison, or normal rounds off the coverage perfectly. virtually every mon on the list gets manhandled by talonflame.
defensively, certain grass types like celebi and especially amoonguss offer good switch-ins for most of them except greninja / sharpedo, which gyara has to handle himself.

lol so that was kind of tangential from the jolly/adamant discussion but i think it's worth noting, since it depends in part on what 4th move you carry and what teammates you've got o:

 

[DaRkRaii]

I'm at odds here. Building a team around Mega Gyarados. I know I want an attack variant that comes in and sweeps late game. But what for the move set? I've always like Sub on Gyara, but with the addition of Crunch as a very reliable STAB:

DD, Waterfall, EQ, and either SUB or Crunch?

I can't decide. Crunch helps it 2HOKO Venasaur at +1 and mess up Mega Slowbro, something it couldn't do before, but sub with it's bulk gives it more set up opportunities.

 

[TheTtarManCan]

I'm at odds here. Building a team around Mega Gyarados. I know I want an attack variant that comes in and sweeps late game. But what for the move set? I've always like Sub on Gyara, but with the addition of Crunch as a very reliable STAB:

DD, Waterfall, EQ, and either SUB or Crunch?

I can't decide. Crunch helps it 2HOKO Venasaur at +1 and mess up Mega Slowbro, something it couldn't do before, but sub with it's bulk gives it more set up opportunities.

Well, as always, it depends on the rest of your team. Substitute works well against stall teams since it prevents them from giving it status. If you are looking to use it in the late game, however, it would probably appreciate having the extra coverage move in Crunch. Honestly, you should probably just try out both and see which you prefer!

 

[DaRkRaii]

Well, as always, it depends on the rest of your team. Substitute works well against stall teams since it prevents them from giving it status. If you are looking to use it in the late game, however, it would probably appreciate having the extra coverage move in Crunch. Honestly, you should probably just try out both and see which you prefer!

Thanks for the reply man! I can see Mega Gyara definitely being top tier with Mence gone. I don't see many Mega's contesting with it. My team will probably have a multitude of wall breakers regardless, so things will be weak to Gyara coming in and even weaker with Gyara firing off Intimidate too.

 

[TheTtarManCan]

Thanks for the reply man! I can see Mega Gyara definitely being top tier with Mence gone. I don't see many Mega's contesting with it. My team will probably have a multitude of wall breakers regardless, so things will be weak to Gyara coming in and even weaker with Gyara firing off Intimidate too.

No problem! As with the case with Scizor, taking a good pokemon and giving it 100 more base stats is always a good thing! Remember that if you choose to go the crunch route, you can always pack in a pokemon with Heal Bell to get M-Gyra up and running again.

 

[master_marshmallow]

So did anyone else have the issue of gyara not learning DD in ORAS?
I had to trade mine over to xy and take it to the move relearner.

 

[TheTraininator]

So did anyone else have the issue of gyara not learning DD in ORAS?
I had to trade mine over to xy and take it to the move relearner.

It still learns it, just at 47 instead of 44.

 

[Live4evil]

Funny how reading the first page and the last page has a huge shift in people's opinion of Mega-Gyarados. Anyway I was wanting to discuss a non-Mega bulky set with DD and ChestoRest. The set is:

Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 104 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Double-Edge
- Rest

Basically I gave it max HP and slapped on some Def and SpD along with 20 speed to outspeed Mega-Manectric after 2 Dragon Dances. Double Edge is used as it is the hardest hitting non-Thrash/Outrage move. I've been using it with a Specs Gothitelle that has HP Fire and Energy Ball to handle Ferrothorn the biggest wall and Rotom-W the most common/threatening pivot. I also have a Mega Manectric running along side it since the enemy must use an electric attack to remove it once it has boosted which Manectric can absorb into more momentum.

Anyways what are some opinions on this set? Should I use Bounce even though it could miss? And would different EVs be better?

 

[SketchUp]

The set looks pretty cool but I doubt if it would work out very well. I would not prefer it over de subDD bounce set but it looks worth a shot (maybe coverage over double-edge tho)

 

[Jaroda]

If you're going to be using a sweeper set, why not use Moxie?

 

[Yamborski]

If you're going to be using a sweeper set, why not use Moxie?

Because Intimidate is one of the best abilities in the game. 1 HP burned Gyarados that was Tricked an Iron Ball is still relatively useful with intimidate.

 

[Kejmur]

Because Intimidate is one of the best abilities in the game. 1 HP burned Gyarados that was Tricked an Iron Ball is still relatively useful with intimidate.

Plus it makes set-up that much easier, which for Dragon Dance offensive set is really helpful and gives you more opportiunities to set-up. Plus even if you fail, you may use it as Intimidate death fodder, which is cool thing. Also Intimidate may allow it to still check some stuff even if you go with more offensive spread in case of emergency.

 

[AM]

You guys are really underrating Moxie Gyarados. Not saying that Intimidate on regular Gyarados is bad, but implying that one is vastly superior over the other is not exactly true. A Gyarados getting +1 in attack every time it nets a KO is really good and just solidifies mid-late game sweeps even more. The two abilities would serve different functions for the team as a whole. One is not exactly better than the other in all circumstances.