HP Rock for more PP.
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Pokémon Heatran
- Thread starter Ryuuki
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Do you honestly ever use Ancient Power 8 Times?
I steamrolled a guy's team the other day because I grabbed two Ancient Power boosts in a row lol. Never underestimate the power. :P also
^^
I'm underestimating the PP, not the Power.
When Talonflame U-Turns out to something that can take Ancient Power, or when your opponent switches, you'll be losing PP.
Ancient Power could also be helpful for taking out other Flying Types, but has low PP. HP Rock is more reliable.
I could see why you'd use it on Zard Y, but Heatran has HP Rock as an Option if you aren't using a Hidden Power at all.
I've been using this Heatran for a while.
(Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 228 HP / 128 Def / 152 SDef
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm/Fire Spin
Lava Plume as the main STAB and not a bad way to spread burns. Earth Power is great for switching against other fire types (Except Charizard Y) And Magma Storm/Fire Spin is for trapping. Magma Storm is obviously much, much better but sometimes I use Fire Spin because Magma Storm keeps missing. Modest Nature in order to do some extra damage.
This Heatran only works because other players allow it to work. I have 3 Pokemons with Fire Weakness, and even though they see that I have Heatran they Fire ahead their fire attacks and I switch in with my Heatran and trap them or hit them back.
(Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 228 HP / 128 Def / 152 SDef
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm/Fire Spin
Lava Plume as the main STAB and not a bad way to spread burns. Earth Power is great for switching against other fire types (Except Charizard Y) And Magma Storm/Fire Spin is for trapping. Magma Storm is obviously much, much better but sometimes I use Fire Spin because Magma Storm keeps missing. Modest Nature in order to do some extra damage.
This Heatran only works because other players allow it to work. I have 3 Pokemons with Fire Weakness, and even though they see that I have Heatran they Fire ahead their fire attacks and I switch in with my Heatran and trap them or hit them back.
THE counter to the OP fairy.
SubRoost BU Talonflame is rare but I have seen several players use it because it's does an amazing job in shutting down its typical counters like Rotom, and Heatran, Tyranitar etc. Without a boosting item on Heatran it burns out the PP of even HP Rock if it were at full health when Heatran came in. The Heatran in question has a Choice Specs, which means HP Rock will not be run through. Ancient Power however, gets burned out of PP if Talonflame already got his sub up when Heatran came in. Regardless of how rare Sub on Talonflame is, since the only reason we ever use it is for Talonflame anyway, so HP Rock is generally a 'safer' option for the purpose.
I love this set very much, helps against stally pokemon like chansey, mandibuzz, ect
Would an offensive set utilizing Magma Storm, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, & Earth Power be viable?
Or is Lava Plume the preffered attack?
Or is Lava Plume the preffered attack?
I would say fire blast for offensive because it hits harder, magma storm is usually only used for trapping sets and not necessarily offensively. I suppose you could give it a try but I think fire blast would be better than magma storm and lava plume
Does anyone advise running Flash Cannon on Heatran at all? most of the common fairies, Azumarill, Mega Mawile and Klefki are neutral to the move, two of those are destroyed by Fire STAB and Heatran really can't do anything to Azumarill except Roaring it hoping to ruin Belly Drum if it's running that set of course.
Steel isn't really a good offensive type and most fairies are either neutral to it or specially bulky, an offensive steel move is by no means necessary and Heatran often has better stuff to do anyway.
SpD Heatran only really needs lava plume whereas offensive Heatran would prefer Fire Blast, Earth Power and 2 out of HP Ice, Stone Edge and Stealth Rock.
SpD Heatran only really needs lava plume whereas offensive Heatran would prefer Fire Blast, Earth Power and 2 out of HP Ice, Stone Edge and Stealth Rock.
Flash Cannon has never been good on Heatran in my opinion. It has poor coverage so I agree with Jaroda that HP Ice would suit Heatran better. And I disagree with you finncent, a special steel move is not necessarily always needed just for fairy-types.
I have really been impressed by the Sub-Wisp Heatran which I drew the inspiration from Sub-Wisp Gengar:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
Heatran's set resistances forces a lot of switches that it easily gets a Substitute with no problem. Coincidentally, none of its common switch-ins appreciate a burn/toxic at all, so you burn them, and cripple them for the rest of the match. From there, you can either stall them down or switch out to something to set-up. My personal partner of choice in such case would be Gyarados, who set up on all of Heatran's common switch-ins with impunity once they are burnt.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
Heatran's set resistances forces a lot of switches that it easily gets a Substitute with no problem. Coincidentally, none of its common switch-ins appreciate a burn/toxic at all, so you burn them, and cripple them for the rest of the match. From there, you can either stall them down or switch out to something to set-up. My personal partner of choice in such case would be Gyarados, who set up on all of Heatran's common switch-ins with impunity once they are burnt.
*Update: I've tested out a set using Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Earth Power, and Flash Cannon, w/ EVs of 252 HP, 252 SpA, 6 Spe. So far, 7/8 battles are wins.
Thx!
I think Flash Cannon actually has some viability this gen. I've been testing out a Revenge-Killer Heatran on a bulky offensive team, and it's been working out great so far. My spread is something along the lines of (subject to future change):
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Flamethrower
Earth Power
Flash Cannon
Dragon Pulse (mostly redundant coverage, might switch out for a useful HP)
The idea behind this set is that Heatran can switch into a LOT of predicted attacks, especially Dragon- and Fairy-type. Most people don't expect Heatran to outspeed anything, so they stay in. I've been getting some nasty surprise kills with this thing so far, especially if you start against something like opposing Heatran where your opponent might think you've simply won the speed tie, only to outspeed and OHKO something significantly faster later on. If your opponent brings in something that resists your choiced attack, simply switch out and repeat. It's been averaging like 3 kills ever since I first tried it and I've pulled off 4-0 sweeps with it.
Take these experiences with a grain of salt though, since I'm only mid-tier on the ladder (1400-ish), so better players might have better answers to it.
@ chive
The question of playing Dragon Pulse or HP Ice is difficult to answer ... In my opinion HP Ice is the better option though you can hit Gliscor and Landorus with a Fire Blast as well the HP Ice is necessary for Garchomp, Dragonite and also the really unusual Noivern. Dragon Pulse would do more damage on Lati@s but especially Latias doesn't need to worry about that damage while Latios can be 2HKOt both with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice. Dragon Pulse is a guaranteed OHKO but the HP Ice also after Stealth Rock, so the advantage of HP Ice is (practiculary on the Scarf-Moveset) to surprise (non scarfed) Garchomp and Dragonite without full healthy. Landorus and Gliscor also take enough damage from Fire Blast but especially with Scarf > Specs it is good to have the HP Ice for killing them.
Also the question of playing Flash Cannon or not isn't easy, I would prefer a rockmove as Ancient Power on this Slot. Only for Sylveon, Gardevoir and Togekiss Flash Cannon isn't that profitable at all, practiculary because another often played Fairy called Azumarill only laughs about every Heatran thanks to Aqua Jet. (well you should never stay in azumarill, maybe for good predicted wow's while it belly drums, but that's a different topic ...) Ancient Power is the perfect Move for the often played Charizard-Y and Talonflame.
As a last resort I would play Fire Blast > Flamethrower or even Overheat because with the Scarf it takes the role of a revenger for the Team (in most cases), so you should not except a Flamethrower-Sweep through the hole Team ... Fire Blast has more power which is important as well as Overheat. The SAtk-Drop is viable for Heatran because in 99 of 100 cases it will kill the Pokémon and has to switch out or something that resists the fire-attack switches in wherefor Heatran also has to switch out because its trapped in the move.
What you discribe that it can OHKO many Pokémon so with good switch-ins it often gets a kill ... that works better with Choice Specs + Fire Blast while the better combination for a Revenger is Choice Scarf + Overheat imo.
I play my choiced Heatran like this, it outspeedes 72 Spd Gliscor, the rest should be very obvious:
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Ancient Power
The question of playing Dragon Pulse or HP Ice is difficult to answer ... In my opinion HP Ice is the better option though you can hit Gliscor and Landorus with a Fire Blast as well the HP Ice is necessary for Garchomp, Dragonite and also the really unusual Noivern. Dragon Pulse would do more damage on Lati@s but especially Latias doesn't need to worry about that damage while Latios can be 2HKOt both with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice. Dragon Pulse is a guaranteed OHKO but the HP Ice also after Stealth Rock, so the advantage of HP Ice is (practiculary on the Scarf-Moveset) to surprise (non scarfed) Garchomp and Dragonite without full healthy. Landorus and Gliscor also take enough damage from Fire Blast but especially with Scarf > Specs it is good to have the HP Ice for killing them.
Also the question of playing Flash Cannon or not isn't easy, I would prefer a rockmove as Ancient Power on this Slot. Only for Sylveon, Gardevoir and Togekiss Flash Cannon isn't that profitable at all, practiculary because another often played Fairy called Azumarill only laughs about every Heatran thanks to Aqua Jet. (well you should never stay in azumarill, maybe for good predicted wow's while it belly drums, but that's a different topic ...) Ancient Power is the perfect Move for the often played Charizard-Y and Talonflame.
As a last resort I would play Fire Blast > Flamethrower or even Overheat because with the Scarf it takes the role of a revenger for the Team (in most cases), so you should not except a Flamethrower-Sweep through the hole Team ... Fire Blast has more power which is important as well as Overheat. The SAtk-Drop is viable for Heatran because in 99 of 100 cases it will kill the Pokémon and has to switch out or something that resists the fire-attack switches in wherefor Heatran also has to switch out because its trapped in the move.
What you discribe that it can OHKO many Pokémon so with good switch-ins it often gets a kill ... that works better with Choice Specs + Fire Blast while the better combination for a Revenger is Choice Scarf + Overheat imo.
I play my choiced Heatran like this, it outspeedes 72 Spd Gliscor, the rest should be very obvious:
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Ancient Power
Thanks for the input, I will definitely consider HP Ice and Ancient Power. What I like about Flash Cannon though is that it hits Rock-types for SE STAB damage who come in on a predicted fire move. I can't do the calcs right now since I'm at work, but I imagine a Flash Cannon from max SpA Modest Heatran can 2HKO (Mega)TTar even in the Sand, and that's a huge deal since that beast is very tough to counter imo.
And you're probably right about Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat, but I'm very paranoid about missing in crucial situations, especially on an RK'er. I'll try it out though.
And you're probably right about Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat, but I'm very paranoid about missing in crucial situations, especially on an RK'er. I'll try it out though.
Nice to read that I could help you a little bit :)
Well, with a Scarf an positive nature Heatran might be able to outspeed +1 Mega Tyranitar but the Problem is that +1 Stone Edge can OHKO it (if adamant) and EQ surely OHKOs it (if played on Mega-TTar). If it survives a move it really can revenge Mega-TTar if it has just a little bit prior damage:
252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO
But against bulky, defensive or even AV-TTar Heatran is one of the last Pokémon, you should choose to "counter".
Well, with a Scarf an positive nature Heatran might be able to outspeed +1 Mega Tyranitar but the Problem is that +1 Stone Edge can OHKO it (if adamant) and EQ surely OHKOs it (if played on Mega-TTar). If it survives a move it really can revenge Mega-TTar if it has just a little bit prior damage:
252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO
But against bulky, defensive or even AV-TTar Heatran is one of the last Pokémon, you should choose to "counter".
I'm really liking Flame Charge on Heatran
Hot Tran (Heatran) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flame Charge
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
With Life Orb and Modest, this Heatran can do more than decent damage and after a Flame Charge it can start sweeping.
Hot Tran (Heatran) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flame Charge
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
With Life Orb and Modest, this Heatran can do more than decent damage and after a Flame Charge it can start sweeping.
This post is kinda dead, but I want to know how good is this thing at countering Aegislash.
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