Yes, unless you get back up to full health. So it works if you come in on a non-attacking move on something you expect to switch out, since the second turn of Leftovers will bring you up to full on the switch.
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Here Comes The Sun!
- Thread starter IcyMan28
- Start date
There's not many fire attacks that aren't going to kill Forretress usually anyway, except maybe a weak Fire Punch. So it's not a massive risk, tbh.
Forretress doesn't resist electric. You may be thinking of Nattorei.
Forry doesn't face any increased risk in the sun. Fire attacks are killing it regardless, and it should always be paired with heatran, vappy or something anyway. If anything, it benefits from the sun by lowering the damage it takes from water attacks.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
What Green Mage said is correct. Fire attacks will ko forry no matter who they come from. Pair him with a fire resistant/flash fire mon (Arcanine and Heatran work well. Houndoom sort of works too). Be prepared to switch if anything suspicously switches into you. Because if it does, it's probably carrying a fire attack.
Guys, I need something to take on LO Latios for my sun teams. Houndoom revenges, but I'd like to use a pokemon who doesn't require a sacrifice before trying to take him on.
I'm actually considering CB Scizor, but it's hard to replace who I currently have. Maybe Garchomp, but...
Guys, I need something to take on LO Latios for my sun teams. Houndoom revenges, but I'd like to use a pokemon who doesn't require a sacrifice before trying to take him on.
I'm actually considering CB Scizor, but it's hard to replace who I currently have. Maybe Garchomp, but...
In theory at least some form of reasonably spdef heatran should be taking neutral surfs and dms fine, and could potentially setup a nitro charge or torment on it or whatever switches in. You'd need to check calcs ofc. Nothing else could take its dragon hits and avoid hp fire, so try it maybe?
Now I have access to a damage calc, here are some numbers for you on an uninvested Heatran (using LO Timid maxSpAtk Latios, in Sun).
Draco Meteor - 43.7-51.3%
Dragon Pulse/Psychic - 28.2-33.4%
Psycho Shock - 25.1-29.7%
Surf - 39.6-47.1%
HP Fight - 59.4-70.0%
The only thing 2HKOing you will be HP Fight, and I have no idea how common that is. If you max out your SpDef you can push Hp Fight's damage down to 35.2-40.0%, however, so with the right EV spread no Latios should ever be breaking you in the Sun.
The problem of course is that even with a lot of investment in SpAtk you won't be able to take Latios out with your normal coverage options; maxed out HP Ice only hits for 67.1-79.1%. With the same investment Dragon Pulse will always OHKO with SR and LO recoil though, if you're willing to sacrifice overall coverage for a chance to OHKO Latios. TormenTran is the other alternative.
Draco Meteor - 43.7-51.3%
Dragon Pulse/Psychic - 28.2-33.4%
Psycho Shock - 25.1-29.7%
Surf - 39.6-47.1%
HP Fight - 59.4-70.0%
The only thing 2HKOing you will be HP Fight, and I have no idea how common that is. If you max out your SpDef you can push Hp Fight's damage down to 35.2-40.0%, however, so with the right EV spread no Latios should ever be breaking you in the Sun.
The problem of course is that even with a lot of investment in SpAtk you won't be able to take Latios out with your normal coverage options; maxed out HP Ice only hits for 67.1-79.1%. With the same investment Dragon Pulse will always OHKO with SR and LO recoil though, if you're willing to sacrifice overall coverage for a chance to OHKO Latios. TormenTran is the other alternative.
Whimsicott can do everything pluff can...well it can't use sleep powder...and it can do all that without needing any speed evs. I don't know if it's bulkier or not.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Jumpluff gets aromatherapy as well (SCREW YOU SLEEP POWDER). I stick to using jumpluff because the fighting resistance and ground immunity are invaluble to my team. Conveniently enough, Jumpluff and heatran happen to cover each others weaknesses completely.
Man....why haven't I been using Heatran more? @_@
The bug nuetrality helps jumpluff out against Scizor as well, you otherwise toys with Whimsicott via u-turn.
Man....why haven't I been using Heatran more? @_@
The bug nuetrality helps jumpluff out against Scizor as well, you otherwise toys with Whimsicott via u-turn.
My biggest problem is still dealing with Blaziken. I run a lead Genosect so if I encounter one, I will switch to Tails to get Sun up, then switch to Sawsbuck to do EQ. BUT, this strategy hinges a lot on luck and err... it's only been 30% successful.
I'm running Genesect, Tails, Heatran, Venusaur, Sawsbuck and Tangrowth. Any suggestions?
I'm running Genesect, Tails, Heatran, Venusaur, Sawsbuck and Tangrowth. Any suggestions?
Personally I'd drop Sawsbuck for your own Blaziken, but that's your call.
I have somewhat of a piecemeal approach to Blaziken, since in Sun trying to wall him is virtually impossible. I typically lead with Tales, and Toxic it on the first turn. Then, presuming a SE or HJK to save from FB recoil, I switch in my nearly max def Cress to lure a FB and rack up poison damage. If instead he FBs and I lose Cress, I have Sawsbuck to revenge him. If not, I either sac Cress to FB to rack up recoil, or some other member of my party (who will be of least use in the coming battle) to do likewise, and then revenge with Arcanine's Extremspeed. If I need Tales (opposing weather team) then I pretty much switch to Cress the first turn instead, as saccing her to FB racks up over 2/3 recoil damage. If I'm feeling ballsy and want to predict a SD or Protect, I can bring in Sawsbuck early to OHKO it.
If I can predict the Blaziken lead, I may put Cress first to threaten it with Psychic (if nothing else on the team threatens her too much), though having my weather up afterwards and being sure all my mons will be at 100% when facing it is a pretty large incentive to simply deal with it straight off the bat, to me at least. Notably, in my main plan for it, if it does not SD then Cress can take care of it quite comfortably, though most will.
Pretty convuluted, but Blaziken gives Sun such hell that it's pretty much necessary to have quite a lot of contignecy plans for it.
If I can predict the Blaziken lead, I may put Cress first to threaten it with Psychic (if nothing else on the team threatens her too much), though having my weather up afterwards and being sure all my mons will be at 100% when facing it is a pretty large incentive to simply deal with it straight off the bat, to me at least. Notably, in my main plan for it, if it does not SD then Cress can take care of it quite comfortably, though most will.
Pretty convuluted, but Blaziken gives Sun such hell that it's pretty much necessary to have quite a lot of contignecy plans for it.
Hmm... my biggest problem with using Sawsbuck to revenge, is that if the opponent is smart, he would protect when I'm trying to EQ him, such that he would get another +1spd and be definitely faster than me. Putting in Cress is an idea, but who do I get rid off? I'm thinking of removing Tangrowth now and changing Venusaur to a Mixed Attacker? Because Tangrowth was my mixed attacker currently... Also, any advice on what set to run on Cress?
If you switch Sawsbuck in the first turn when you think they'll SD, then you still outspeed after a single protect, the only issue is if they try and get lucky by protecting a second time. That's what I have the whole big plan for, though.
Cress is mostly useful as a pivot for Blaziken since he cannot take a FB in Sun, though he can prove a useful sacrifice for him. The most common set would be Dual Screens to help a sweeper Growth up, or your own Blaziken SD, so try that maybe? Max Def is pretty essential in this meta, however.
The thing is my lead is a Genesect, and they usually either go for an attack instead of just SDing. lol
Then you could get Cress in easily on the hit to wall it and threaten with Psychic. Having Screens to set up helps if it switches out.
Blaziken are buggers to go against. Smart switching is how I generally take them out. If I predict a Flare Blitz/Blaze Kick I go to Arcanine. Generally I do this when I have Forretress/Venu out. If I predict a HJK I will switch in Venu/Tangrowth, then switch to Arcanine, and try and rack up residual damage before going in for the kill with E-Speed. The ones that run Stone Edge are the most annoying ones, as with those moves it has perfect coverage on my team. Forretress/Arcanine can also kill it when there are no hazards up. Forretress takes a Flare Blitz, causes recoil, and Gyro Balls it as it will survive with 1 HP thanks to sturdy. Then it dies and Arcanine revenges it with E-Speed.
Basically carrying priority is a must when wanting to counter Blaziken.
Has anyone else had success with Defensive Tangrowth? I load mine with 252 HP/252 Def and HP Ice and it makes an amazing Dragon counter. Garchomp is walled by it (Barely 2HKO's after a SD with Fire Fang in the Sun) and is OHKO'd by HP Ice, or Slept with Sleep Powder. Regeneration means that switching it out makes it come back with more juice.
Basically carrying priority is a must when wanting to counter Blaziken.
Has anyone else had success with Defensive Tangrowth? I load mine with 252 HP/252 Def and HP Ice and it makes an amazing Dragon counter. Garchomp is walled by it (Barely 2HKO's after a SD with Fire Fang in the Sun) and is OHKO'd by HP Ice, or Slept with Sleep Powder. Regeneration means that switching it out makes it come back with more juice.
I'm not sure I'd use Regen Tangrowth as a Dragon counter - his typing simply exacerbates any weaknesses your chlorophyllers already give your team, and without HP Fire he doesn't gain anything from Sun. Why not use Cresselia to beat Dragons instead? Moonlight for recovery, similarly epic Def but also decent SpDef, not weak to Fire and immune to EQ, Ice Beam to hit Dragons even harder, and can run Psychic to take out opposing Fightings (or HP Fight to wear away TTar). Reflect's an option to neuter TTar's hits too, meaning it doesn't give you too many issues.
I don't necessarily use it as my dragon counter (though it walls Garchomp completely) as more of my physical wall. HP Ice is used due to the amount of Latios/other Dragons that switch in to try and wall me. And since I only run one Chlorophyll pokemon (Venusaur) it doesn't add any extra weaknesses to my team. Since it is a sun team the Regen/Wall part surprises a lot of people, as they think to switch in and eat a Sleep Powder to the face.
Tangrowth over Cresselia for me, as with no investment it hits harder, and the typing is better for physical walling then Psychic. Blissey is used as my Special Wall, and together Tangrowth and Blissey form an impressive defensive core that is hard to break. Tangrowth also boasts being able to go toe to toe with any sand sweeper and winning so....
Also I have recently tried Eruption Flash Fire Typhlosion and I am extremely impressed with it. Choice Specs Eruption has allowed me to take out half of the enemies team without a flash fire boost, and when it does get it it becomes a monster. Solar Beam/Focus Blast/Overheat provide coverage moves. Overheat is for when I start to run low on health.