This is the set I had in mind if Volt Change turned out to be special. I absolutely adore Choice Specs Jolteon, and being able to use its massive speed to scout with Volt Change is amazing.. However, this thing draws in Scarfgon like no other.. That's going to be a serious problem for this one, because Volt Change isn't going to work to scout against it.
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Jolteon
- Thread starter Taruta
- Start date
Cheer Up seems great for Jolteon, since it gets the opportunity to use it on Volt Absorb predictions, and it's high speed makes it fine for Baton Passing. Erufuun ruins your day if you try doing set up though, so one should probably have something to check it.
I think Synchro-Noise should get another mention against opposing electric types. Having a 140 BP move to fire off against Zapdos is pretty welcome, and the addition of Terakion, Birijion and Roohpushin mean that it's not too awful either, as it'll hit each of them pretty hard (though I doubt any are OHKOs, except maybe Terakion outside of Sandstorm).
Should Volt Change and Thunderbolt be used on the same sets though?
I think Synchro-Noise should get another mention against opposing electric types. Having a 140 BP move to fire off against Zapdos is pretty welcome, and the addition of Terakion, Birijion and Roohpushin mean that it's not too awful either, as it'll hit each of them pretty hard (though I doubt any are OHKOs, except maybe Terakion outside of Sandstorm).
Should Volt Change and Thunderbolt be used on the same sets though?
I think that Charge Beam is still a superior option on Jolteon compared to Cheer Up. :0 Jolteon gets next to nothing out of that Attack Boost, and it can rarely find the time to set up Cheer Up without getting smacked around by SE Earthquakes or STAB neutral attacks, which can still take a chunk out of it.
I DO agree that Volt Change is an excellent addition to Jolty's movepool, though. However, I think I'll keep using it with Volt Absorb. :0 Unless something changed with the ability this generation, Jolty still isn't paralyzed by Twave as far as I know. :\ I see the real usefulness of the move being on like a Specs set, in place of Baton Pass which was the only real option it had in that last slot.
EDIT: ...oh. I see someone already posted new-and-improved SpecsJolty's set. But anyway...
Hailz yeah. I can totally go for that.
I DO agree that Volt Change is an excellent addition to Jolty's movepool, though. However, I think I'll keep using it with Volt Absorb. :0 Unless something changed with the ability this generation, Jolty still isn't paralyzed by Twave as far as I know. :\ I see the real usefulness of the move being on like a Specs set, in place of Baton Pass which was the only real option it had in that last slot.
EDIT: ...oh. I see someone already posted new-and-improved SpecsJolty's set. But anyway...
Hailz yeah. I can totally go for that.
Sure. See the Specs set posted by Ulysses.
While Jolteon itself cannot benefit from the attack boost from Cheer Up, it's good to baton pass to mixed attackers, and regardless of mixed or not, any Pokemon can appreciate +1 to it's attack/sp. attack. It has a 100% chance of activating unlike Charge Beam as well, but you are right that Cheer Up is no free move without a good switch in.
people really underestimate quick feet jolteon. with a flame orb to guarantee the burn, it outspeeds damn near everything. no more getting revenged by scarfgon or scarfchomp, and you can OHKO both with HP ice. quick feet jolteon is the perfect recipient of a tail glow boost or two from volbeat. i've managed to get 2 tail glow boosts numerous times thanks to parahax from volby's priority thunder wave, and a jolteon at a whopping 1400 SpA and blistering 537 speed is NOTHING to scoff at. not even ditto can guarantee the revenge kill since it doesn't copy the quick feet boost which results in a speed tie. it can even BP the SpA boosts to a friend when it's about to die.
True, Quick Feet Jolteon does seem to have it's use, but having to rely on getting Baton Passed boosts seems a bit iffy. Of course a Quick Feet Jolteon could also run Cheer Up/Charge Beam to buff itself, but without Volt Absorb, Jolteon may find it harder to have a moment to set up or switch into things.
I think we should also reconsider what threats Jolteon must face this time around. With Quick Feet, Jolteon can outspeed Doryuzuu under Sandstorms, but can it OHKO Doryuzuu with anything for Revenge Kills? Without a life orb/specs, I find it kind of hard to imagine, especially since most Quick Feet sets are relying on Flame Orbs. Jolteon also will not enjoy taking Sandstorm Damage + Burn Damage + Entry Hazards, so Quick Feet Jolteon seems pretty iffy...
I think we shouldn't overlook Synchonise/Synchronoise/whatever it is. The 70 BP Psychic Special attack that Jolteon gets via breeding. I think there's still research to be done on how it works still, since the description is definitely weird. Apparently there is speculation that it doubles in base power against Pokemon of the same type, and thus 140 BP against all other electric types is pretty decent, especially Zapdos. If it still functions normally otherwise, then it's also good for checking fighting types, though I am not too sure about Jolteon taking an Iron Fist Mach Punch from Roobushin. But if it can, then a revenge kill with Jolteon is possible. Though apparently Guts is his more popular ability, so perhaps Jolteon can revenge kill through unboosted punches.
Jolteon also doesn't fear Burungeru much, but it needs HP Fire for Nattorei. Shadow Ball can handle Shanderaa, but a +speed nature scarfed Shanderaa outspeeds and will probably wreck Jolteon.
HP Ice will probably be more important than ever with the sheer number of Dragons running around. On a Quick Feet set, it is beneficial to be able to HP Ice Dragons who are probably scarfed. Volt Change works well with Quick Feet too, since it allows you to get out even on enemy scarfers through sheer speed.
it is a really bad attack, it just hits all pokes with the same type, 70 base power, wont hit anything else, in singles, this means failing if the other guy isnt electric.
i havnt tested much with it, but i can confirm, that on my shinbora it failed against anything that wasnt flying or physic, i only ever used it once successfully to see the animation after that, so didnt even test with both psychic and flying.
Specs or LO charge beam is what he's stuck doing, kinda like last metagame. He can't subpass as effectively since there's an awful lot that can either outspeed him or just smack him with priority as he tries to baton pass out.
I don't think so as the sweeper sets have no way to threaten Excadrill beyond HP Fire/Fighting/Ground/Water which hurts its speed and coverage. The specs set is also shaky at revenge killing Gliscor as most now carry Protect to lock you.
I still think a supporting set is the best set, passing either subs, work ups or even wishes, depending on whether you're running a pure offensive or bulky offensive team. It still is the fastest passer around that isn't Ninjask or Accelgor so it has a niche.
It can even carry a Balloon so that they're forced to use a weaker attack that may not even break the sub after you've passed it. I don't think the balloon even pops if your sub is hit, but I may be wrong.
I still think a supporting set is the best set, passing either subs, work ups or even wishes, depending on whether you're running a pure offensive or bulky offensive team. It still is the fastest passer around that isn't Ninjask or Accelgor so it has a niche.
It can even carry a Balloon so that they're forced to use a weaker attack that may not even break the sub after you've passed it. I don't think the balloon even pops if your sub is hit, but I may be wrong.
I second the "no-bulk" thing. I was using a Jolteon in Doubles along with my Discharge Thundurus, and it took a Fire Blast from +1 Volcarona and lived with like, 15/149 HP, even with a Light Screen up..
Then again, that's a pretty strong attack coming from a strong boosted Pokemon, so it might not be as weak after all.. I figure it's the same as each side being +0, since Light Screen prevents the extra damage from the +1 SpA boost for Volca.
Err... Jolteon's subs doesn't require bulk at all. His subs could easily be broken in GenIV as well. No, they're used to maintain momentum. Jolteon is a magnet for Blissey and ground types, in particular Excadrill, who can otherwise freely switch in and set up.
A sub prevents Excadrill from setting up because it has to either break the sub before it's passed which in turn makes Excadrill set up fodder or it can SD and risk getting OHKO'd as the sub absorbs the first hit.
Sub also lets weather changers or, say, Magnezone with Balloon to switch in without repurcussions. Magnezone can then Magnet Rise as Excadrill tries to pop the balloon and be more or less helpless to HP Fire barring a Rock Slide flinch.
Specs Jolt being the most popular set only helps the Subpass set.
A sub prevents Excadrill from setting up because it has to either break the sub before it's passed which in turn makes Excadrill set up fodder or it can SD and risk getting OHKO'd as the sub absorbs the first hit.
Sub also lets weather changers or, say, Magnezone with Balloon to switch in without repurcussions. Magnezone can then Magnet Rise as Excadrill tries to pop the balloon and be more or less helpless to HP Fire barring a Rock Slide flinch.
Specs Jolt being the most popular set only helps the Subpass set.
I said nothing to the contrary of this, I merely pointed out that Balloon would break and that virtually any attack will break Jolt's subs, as opposed to you suggesting they may not.
SubPass Jolt is pretty epic I know, but this gen is rivalled by Mienshao, who can do the same but Regens the health used to sub when he passes out.
Specs' lack of coverage is really unfortunate. If it had just a weak Ice or Fire move it'd be great, but as it it has to pick what to get walled by. VS does make up for this to some extent, though if you mispredict you'll lose momentum horribly.
sigh.... why are people questioning volt change so much? it is an amazing move for this guy....
Last generation it would take a little more strategy to use because you cannot know what the opponent has.... assuming it even has a ground...
This gen game freak dumbed everything down and allows you to see ALL of the pokemon your opponent has before u even fight them (which i totally disagree with by the way.... it took a major element of battling out of the game). If your opponent has a ground type... be wary before u use volt change, and simply manually switch him out... if it doesnt, then u know you are free to freaking abuse it all the live long day.... baton pass is good for getting out of hard hitting pursuiters, but most pursuiters besides maybe snorlax and tyranitar really dont like taking jolteon's stab attacks... so if they mispredict the pursuit they will likely be 2 shotted.
Unless ur passing buffs, Volt change is superior for this guy as it puts alot more pressure on the opponent by wearing them down over the course of the match... its like scizor's u-turn but with a LITTLE less dmg output and way more speed...
Honestly I dont know how people think that dry passing is still the way to go... this guy has some good sp att... use it whenever u can...
And the arguement about quick feet... quite laughable.... just use volt absorb. This guy is a premiere scouter... use him as such... have teamates that draw in electric attacks and capitalize on the free switch
BTW... balloon on this guy is freaking amazing with volt switch and his amazing speed... The guy earlier in the post who said RAIKOU would probably outshine this guy.... I want some of that stuff u are smoking.
Last generation it would take a little more strategy to use because you cannot know what the opponent has.... assuming it even has a ground...
This gen game freak dumbed everything down and allows you to see ALL of the pokemon your opponent has before u even fight them (which i totally disagree with by the way.... it took a major element of battling out of the game). If your opponent has a ground type... be wary before u use volt change, and simply manually switch him out... if it doesnt, then u know you are free to freaking abuse it all the live long day.... baton pass is good for getting out of hard hitting pursuiters, but most pursuiters besides maybe snorlax and tyranitar really dont like taking jolteon's stab attacks... so if they mispredict the pursuit they will likely be 2 shotted.
Unless ur passing buffs, Volt change is superior for this guy as it puts alot more pressure on the opponent by wearing them down over the course of the match... its like scizor's u-turn but with a LITTLE less dmg output and way more speed...
Honestly I dont know how people think that dry passing is still the way to go... this guy has some good sp att... use it whenever u can...
And the arguement about quick feet... quite laughable.... just use volt absorb. This guy is a premiere scouter... use him as such... have teamates that draw in electric attacks and capitalize on the free switch
BTW... balloon on this guy is freaking amazing with volt switch and his amazing speed... The guy earlier in the post who said RAIKOU would probably outshine this guy.... I want some of that stuff u are smoking.
Balloon really isn't that amazing on Jolteon at all, given that its only immunity is electric and the primary use of that move is Thunder Wave (found on Ferrothorn, who walls Jolteon to hell and back). Volt Switch is nice, but it is just too easily walled to be of much use. Garchomp, Hippowdon, Excadrill, Gliscor, Landorus: all of them are quick to switch into your STAB and can render Jolteon ineffective pretty quickly.
If anything, I'd run a Life Orb set this gen with Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Shadow Ball / Filler. That godly speed lets it revenge pretty much everything.
If anything, I'd run a Life Orb set this gen with Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Shadow Ball / Filler. That godly speed lets it revenge pretty much everything.
@ icy...
Everything u just said is true but u gotta remember... He is an amazing scout... sure he can sweep, but there are others that can do it better. Even without lifeorb and specs if u play him correctly and find a way to keep him alive for late game, only scarfers for the most part are going to outspeed him. he will outspeed and completely sweep a weakened team with a timid nature and without damage boosting items.
All of the pokemon that u mentioned do wall jolteon. Name one pokemon that does NOT use boosts that cannot be walled. The fact of the matter is there will always be someone who will wall or check ANY pokemon. And that is what teamates are for. Besides, with a little bit of prior damage, chomp, gliscor and landorus are taken out by that ridiculous 4x weakness to hp ice. Btw my jolteon is not afraid of tthorn at all. I run tbolt, hp ice, voltswitch and yawn...
Yea i said it... yawn... you would be surprised just how useful it is on jolteon. i am not amazingly concerned about the lack of coverage in shadow ball, as his stab tbolt hits almost as hard as the super effective shadow ball. and on rain teams, i just use thunder which has a HIGHER damage output that a super effective shadow ball, with a high chance of paralysis. Not to mention i dont play jolteon as a sweeper unless its late game.
Throw ferrothorn in on my jolteon... that is absoltely fine. I'm just going to yawn him as he uses subsitute or leech seed. Then I make both of those moves usesless as i volt switch. Maybe i switch to a counter... or maybe i switch to a non counter to use as thunderwave bait so i can just switch him right back in to heal some hp (that is if he is stupid enough to stay in and fall asleep. Either way with the correct setup of entry hazards, he gains momentum for the team all by himself.
Balloon allows him to scout early game and keep his balloon in tact throughout the match, AND survive @ least one attack from exadrill who counters him really hard and happens to be running rampant in the meta game right now.
Once again... consider yawn on ur sets. Jolteon is frail but he gets a surprisingly great use from this move and forces switches allowing u to uses volt switch more effectively on things that are scary to him. free switched = time to switch to a counter or a set up sweeper.
By all means discuss
Everything u just said is true but u gotta remember... He is an amazing scout... sure he can sweep, but there are others that can do it better. Even without lifeorb and specs if u play him correctly and find a way to keep him alive for late game, only scarfers for the most part are going to outspeed him. he will outspeed and completely sweep a weakened team with a timid nature and without damage boosting items.
All of the pokemon that u mentioned do wall jolteon. Name one pokemon that does NOT use boosts that cannot be walled. The fact of the matter is there will always be someone who will wall or check ANY pokemon. And that is what teamates are for. Besides, with a little bit of prior damage, chomp, gliscor and landorus are taken out by that ridiculous 4x weakness to hp ice. Btw my jolteon is not afraid of tthorn at all. I run tbolt, hp ice, voltswitch and yawn...
Yea i said it... yawn... you would be surprised just how useful it is on jolteon. i am not amazingly concerned about the lack of coverage in shadow ball, as his stab tbolt hits almost as hard as the super effective shadow ball. and on rain teams, i just use thunder which has a HIGHER damage output that a super effective shadow ball, with a high chance of paralysis. Not to mention i dont play jolteon as a sweeper unless its late game.
Throw ferrothorn in on my jolteon... that is absoltely fine. I'm just going to yawn him as he uses subsitute or leech seed. Then I make both of those moves usesless as i volt switch. Maybe i switch to a counter... or maybe i switch to a non counter to use as thunderwave bait so i can just switch him right back in to heal some hp (that is if he is stupid enough to stay in and fall asleep. Either way with the correct setup of entry hazards, he gains momentum for the team all by himself.
Balloon allows him to scout early game and keep his balloon in tact throughout the match, AND survive @ least one attack from exadrill who counters him really hard and happens to be running rampant in the meta game right now.
Once again... consider yawn on ur sets. Jolteon is frail but he gets a surprisingly great use from this move and forces switches allowing u to uses volt switch more effectively on things that are scary to him. free switched = time to switch to a counter or a set up sweeper.
By all means discuss
Read my post again. I said the sub may not break AFTER you've passed it. The sub will still have Jolteon's 1/4th HP, but its typing and ability will change to the receiver of the baton pass. So there's a chance the sub will survive, especially when the opponent is foolish enough to EQ.
But, yeah, since the balloon pops even behind a sub, it's not a very good item for Jolteon.
On the turn you predict a switch due to Yawn, why not keep Jolteon in and use Work Up on their switch?
If you can gain momentum, why not use it fully?
Afterward, Baton Pass can be used as you are likely going first, and getting out, of course you would have T-Bolt, or in Rain Teams it would be Thunder as your fourth move. With Work Up, your power will be boosted as much as using Specs / Band.
Imagine surprising the foe with a boosted Thunder (180 x 1.5 = 270) just when they think you are going to Baton Pass out.
Set Name - Yawneon
Jolteon: Balloon / Focus Sash
8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Speed (273 HP, Stealth Rock switch in x 8 not x 7)
Timid
Yawn
Work Up
Baton Pass
Thunder(bolt)
Yawn on a safe move, Work Up during their switch, Pass or Attack directly, likely hitting first (and hard).
yea this set definitely has its merits... although i will say i do like a LITTLE coverage @ least... i mean hp ice is really hard to part with. as ur guaranteeing ohkos on so many huge threats after sr damage like salamence, landorus, gliscor, and many others that were mentioned earlier... and then ur kinda pigeonholed into HAVING to baton pass when faggodrill switches in. But i see ur point... bp to a counter and hopefully ur counter is still faster... it could work, it just switches him to a more support role, than a scout role...