Kingler

[Vodoun]

Kingler has intrigued me as an all around Pokemon ever since I caught a Crabby in D/P and named him Shadbadba and learned all about Crabhammer; the idea of using a Kingler greatly aroused my curiosity for a great variety of reasons, such as the notorious threat of an invasion of giant (possibly robotic) crab monsters falling from the sky, (possibly from outer-space) or the name of pocket 3's in Hold'em Poker (crabs, or Crabhammer, as I call it) but Kingler interested me more as a Pokemon for legitimate competative reasons; I thought a Physical Water move would be a pretty good general spam move because its design is quite unusual, and in that respect, unique.

I decided that since I plan on getting a wireless router, and I plan on learning how to gen/RNG Pokemon, I would research Kingler as a competative Pokemon, and I was suprised to see that practically nothing has been written about him, and infact, he showed up on the Never Used tier.

Kingler has many traits that make him appealing, I believe as a competative Pokemon, starting with his high Attack stat at a base 130, and his Defense at 115, even his Speed can be worked with, at a modest 75.

Another thing that makes Kingler attractive is his wide range of diverse moves, from Wide Guard to Brick Break, I think that he can service a very useful role in battle.

I wanted to imagine the hardest hitting Kingler I could, so I put together Sheer Force with Choice Band, and theoretically included moves like Crabhammer (the staple!) X-Scissor, Superpower, Chip Away, Facade and Dive.

Kingler has a diverse number of useful abilities though, like Knock Off, and I imaged a Thief Crabby would be a super novel character as well.

He can Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Iron Defense, Whirlpool (for predicting a switch) Flail, Haze, Swagger, Dig, Rain Dance, Toxic, Guillotine, Protect, and I don't know how good the rest of these could be, Hone Claws, Metal Claw, Strength, Stomp / Rockslide, Swords Dance.

 

[Smith]

The sad thing about Kingler is that for all the hype about Samurott (totally well-deserved hype by the way), Kingler would 100% outclass him it if weren't for lack of Aqua Jet. The things I would use him for would include his sizable defense stat and useful support options, such as Knock Off, Haze etc. He would really shine as a support Pokemon in this respect since he really can't be set up on in any capacity, either.

 

[Lady Shinki]

I think the best analogy to make comparing Kingler's viability is to compare it to Absol. They both have Swords Dance, base 130 attack and base 75 speed, and good STAB for the tier. Absol gets Sucker Punch, and Kingler has the base physical defense to shrug off most priority once or twice. Kingler's viability as a Swords Dancer is contested by a new pokemon, Samurott, who not only gets Swords Dance with better bulk, but Megahorn to hit Grass-types like Tangela with and Aqua Jet to beat Swellow. CB is Kingler's best set, and it hurts quite a lot if they don't have a grass wall, but it's outclassed by other physical sweepers which is too bad, cuz kingler is a hell of a lot cooler than crawdaunt. :(

Kingler does get nice support options, but he has the special bulk of a wet paper bag. Even stuff like TIMID Scarf Magmortar's Fire Blast 2hko's max HP kingler. With no hazards.

 

[Vodoun]

I'm just now learning about all of this research which has already been generated about the Pokemon game.

I consider gameplay design to be one of my greatest passions, and I can totally sympathize with a lot of the flaws inherent in Pokemon, a lot of it just doesn't make sense, but building a game is complicated, and a rather new practice at that.

 

[canno]

One of Kingler's best sets, imo, is Agility Kingler. It shouldn't have too much of a difficult time to set up, with it's amazing Def stat. Shame it's SDef is complete garbage.
I just wish it got Waterfall. Crabhammer's 90 accuracy makes me cry a lot, since I almost always miss, especially when I need it to hit. :( Also, Crabhammer doesn't get the boost from Sheer Force. :(((
BTW, is his DW ability released yet? I'm pretty sure it is.

 

[Vodoun]

Oooh, Agility, I should have mentioned that in my original post... that would have made me look a lot cooler...

 

[Drifblim]

I don't think the DW is released yet, but I could easily be wrong. Sheer Force is cool, but Kingler isn't the best user of it by far

 

[Vodoun]

I just read that Sheer Force negates the recoil of Life Orb when a move that Sheer Force affects is used, wow.

 

[canno]

I just read that Sheer Force negates the recoil of Life Orb when a move that Sheer Force affects is used, wow.

Only problem is that he doesn't get that many attacks that are boosted by Sheer Force. Only notable move I can think of is Rock Slide. Also, Sheer Force must activate for LO damage to be negated.

Still, it IS better than his other abilities (There's almost no intimidates here and protect against crits isn't the best thing when not much is going to hit you physically)

 

[Az_UK]

I don't think the DW is released yet, but I could easily be wrong. Sheer Force is cool, but Kingler isn't the best user of it by far

Oh it has, some months ago via krabby>sparkling sea.

 

[canno]

It has bad sp. def and some of its other stats just lack too much for its defense and attack to be helpful. I think its good with sheer force thanks to i believe 394 attack max but its bad stats and speed just let it get sewpt by starmie latios ninetale etc. or anything in the neverused tier (ampharos or sceptie i think?) with grass or electric specials. Its good if it can set up agility but thats a rare occason. Kingler is cool, though and if there werent so many damn sp. atkers running around i would use it myself. (why doesnt it have good sp. def anyway? it has a shell- just look at shuckle).

Uh, bro? The only thing NU you mentioned is Amphardos, who is never seen in the tier and get's it's shit out-sped by Kingler anyways, and it won't appreciate a hit coming off Kingler's massive 130 attack.

Also, after an agility boost, the only thing it truly fears is Choice-Scarf Rotom-S (Who can't switch in because Rock Slide fucks it's shit up, and it wont appreciate a Crabhammer to the face) and Choice-Scarf Jynx (Also get's it's shit fucked by Rock Slide (LO Sheer Force), but has an easier time switching in due to Dry Skin) and maybe some other fast scarfers. Getting the boost isn't difficult either, just set-up on a walls face (Fuck paralysis though. :() or even Sawk if he's locked into Stone Edge or some other move not named Close Combat. Hell, he could set up along side Gorebyss, then fuck it's shit up since Gorebyss is fragile as fuck and you outspeed a +2.

Also, I would appreciate if someone could figure out how much Spe investments it actually needs with the Agility Set.

 

[Smith]

Also, I would appreciate if someone could figure out how much Spe investments it actually needs with the Agility Set.

224 (152 EVs and neutral nature) means that at +2 he outspeeds Rotom-s with a Scarf and by association, +2 Gorebyss if your opponent somehow has rain up or something???? idk obviously rotom is more important.

 

[canno]

224 (152 EVs and neutral nature) means that at +2 he outspeeds Rotom-s with a Scarf and by association, +2 Gorebyss if your opponent somehow has rain up or something???? idk obviously rotom is more important.

Yeah, that seems like the only thing it actually needs to outspeed.

AgiliKingler is looking really promising right now. Still wished it got Waterfall though.

Also, is there any reason why Crabhammer doesn't get a SF boost? It has a high crit ratio, does that not count as a secondary effect?

 

[Pen Ink]

High critical hit ratio doesn't count as a secondary effect.

Why did they have to give Crawdaunt Adaptability? With that ability Agility Kingler would be scary... Anyways, all in all Agility is most definitely the best set, Crabhammer hits pretty freaking hard already with base 130 Attack.

 

[Anchormon92]

I was using a double dancing Kingler last month with Life Orb, Hyper Cutter (he could REALLY use some Sheer Force attacks), Crabhammer, and Frustration, and it was pretty awesome. A lot like Rock Polish Torterra actually, except Kingler can choose to boost his Attack if the faster threats are eliminated. He's definitely most effective as a late-game sweeper, as faster special attackers destroy him, and he can't do much to Quagsire (Life Orb recoil takes its toll).

He is actually a decent (but FAR from the best) answer to revenge Sawk if you lose your other answers. I don't know where the good damage calculators are, but I tried to throw a few numbers together. Rock Slide looks like a 3-4HKO, Stone Edge is a 2-3HKO, and Close Combat does about 2/3. An unboosted Crabhammer has about a 50% chance to OHKO if Sawk is at full health (although you obviously want to break Sturdy), and is a very clean OHKO at -1. He's pretty useless afterward, but if you'd be swept otherwise, it's an option. If he can get an Agility in before Sawk comes in, he outspeeds.

I never understood why I never saw him last month. He's fun to play, and pretty easy to use. I've noticed a lot of players like to try to Toxic/Life Orb stall him. While he does die pretty quickly that way, he can also win the game on a predicted switch/Protect. Not much can take it down when both its stats are boosted.

 

[Brammi]

Kingler wants both waterfall and a move to his grass super effectively. I think the best set for him at the moment is Crabhammer / Return / Agility / Sub or Swords Dance

It is unrealistic to expect to get both boosts and agility is by far the better one for kingler in the current meta.

 

[canno]

thats saying if kingler was better u might just not use him for UU. I used him in ubers once and he beat a ho-oh and a rayquaza so there.
also I forgot they have xscizzor (for starmie and other pyscchic types who ARE IN UU so dont judge me) and amnesia for spdef. boost if he gets a chance cuase one should be enough.

How he does in other tiers is rather irrelevant for the discussion of this thread, since this is how he does in NU.

Kingler wants both waterfall and a move to his grass super effectively. I think the best set for him at the moment is Crabhammer / Return / Agility / Sub or Swords Dance

It is unrealistic to expect to get both boosts and agility is by far the better one for kingler in the current meta.

Rock Slide is, imo, better than the sub and SD, since he usually finds time to only set-up once, let alone set-up a sub sub or SD with Agility. Rock Slide also gets dat SF boost and hits Rotom-S and is infinitely better than Return in every way possible. Also, X-Scissor hits Grass super effectively, and is the only reason Cacturn can't touch him.

And yes, Kingler really wants Waterfall. Or any other move that gets SF boost.
Crabhammer / X-Scissor / Agility / Rock Slide or Sword Dance is much better than your set btw.

 

[Alex_Arthur]

Kingler does get Superpower from gen 4, meaning it isn't compaitable with Sheer Force. Would Superpower be worth the trade off, Kingler gets so few things boosted by Sheer Force anyway.

 

[Vodoun]

I did imagine Kingler as a sort of late game sweeper... despite my very limited knowledge of the metagame.

That's a shame Crabhammers +crit% doesn't count as a secondary effect.

If anything I would want a Crabhammering Kingler for the novelty of it.

Amnesia... there's another good one I didn't add to my OP...

 

[tennisace]

Here's the thing with Kingler: its stats are fine for NU, it gets three decent abilities, and it gets both SD and Agility. The problem is that as has been said, you get like 5 options for coverage (Brick Break, Rock Slide, Superpower, X-Scissor, and Return) and all of them are pretty shitty. Honestly your best options are X-scissor and Rock Slide, or Superpower on a CB set. CB is interesting in that base 75 outspeeds all the relevant walls and ties with Absol which is a decent speed to be at. In addition, it lures out bulky waters that give things like Carracosta and Samurott issues, so you can lure them and damage them so that later its an easier sweep. With those two in the tier I don't think I'd seriously choose Kingler as the main sweeper on a team (tried it once, not gonna try it again).

 

[Bodofagod]

The kingler I have the most success with is the agility sweeper.

Agility
Crab Hammer
Rock Slide
X-Scissor (kingler does have a way to hit grass types that everyone is forgetting about)

He's a decent pokemon through and through. It's a shame rock slide is his only usable move that is boosted by sheer force, but doesn't stop kingler from wrecking face after he sets up an agility.

 

[Smith]

Here's the thing with Kingler: its stats are fine for NU, it gets three decent abilities, and it gets both SD and Agility. The problem is that as has been said, you get like 5 options for coverage (Brick Break, Rock Slide, Superpower, X-Scissor, and Return) and all of them are pretty shitty. Honestly your best options are X-scissor and Rock Slide, or Superpower on a CB set. CB is interesting in that base 75 outspeeds all the relevant walls and ties with Absol which is a decent speed to be at. In addition, it lures out bulky waters that give things like Carracosta and Samurott issues, so you can lure them and damage them so that later its an easier sweep. With those two in the tier I don't think I'd seriously choose Kingler as the main sweeper on a team (tried it once, not gonna try it again).

I don't think his coverage options are mediocre at all, in fact I find them one of his best qualities. X-Scissor, as we can see through Samurott, is just the type a Water type in this metagame wants. It hits Cacturne, Duosion, Mesprit etc. plenty hard to get the job done, and his amazingly-typed STAB ought to do the rest of the talking. That said, I agree he's best used a choice bander to soften up the opponent for something LIKE a samurott, carracosta or whatever.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

The biggest tragedy of Kingler is that he has such potential as a Life Orb+Sheer Force user or Scarfer but his movepool just doesn't quite match up with Sheer Force.

I'm still flabbergasted at the fact he doesn't learn Waterfall, which just makes absolutely no sense considering its usual wide distribution. Also, look at that big claw! He should be able to learn the elemental punches. With their boost from Sheer Force, that would give him some really brilliant coverage. A Choice Scarf Sheer Force Waterfall/Rock Slide/Fire Punch/Thunderpunch set would be deadly, and with a little prediction a Life Orb+Sheer Force Swords Dance/Waterfall/Fire Punch/Thunderpunch would be even more terrifying.

Ah, it's all hypothetics though. What a waste of potential =T

 

[Choice Socks]

kingler might not have many SF abusable moves, but I feel everyone is forgetting that SF still negates LO. To be this is a brilliant trait, you can play mind games with an opponent by bluffing choice items for a start. Not to mention a no recoil 30% boost to your attacks, so it isn't hard to bluff band. I think he makes a very effective wall breaker, if not a late game sweeper.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

kingler might not have many SF abusable moves, but I feel everyone is forgetting that SF still negates LO. To be this is a brilliant trait, you can play mind games with an opponent by bluffing choice items for a start. Not to mention a no recoil 30% boost to your attacks, so it isn't hard to bluff band. I think he makes a very effective wall breaker, if not a late game sweeper.

This is a good point, but it is unfortunate that the only thing he can viably use to feign Choice Band is Rock Slide. Seriously why doesn't he learn Waterfall T.T