I personally don't know how to feel about Klefki. A part of me just wants to forget Klefki exists because of a juvenile design and all around bad stats. But another part of me wants to have Klefki on a lot of teams because of a great typing, and priority hazards. In fact, a suicide lead with priority Spikes seems to be it's best, if not one of it's only movesets. It can be a good Pokemon for what it's worth, but it certainly won't be replacing Ferrothorn for setting up hazards, or Whimsicott for utility on my teams. Just my opinions though.
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Pokémon Klefki
- Thread starter Kirbles
- Start date
- Status
Dealing with Klefki means you have to be able to switch into Klefki, not just dealing with it on the spot. Liepard gets absolutely boned if it switches into Thunder Wave, while neither Whimsicott and Murkrow can do a thing is Klefki has set up a Substitute.
All 4 our fast pokemon, I usally run Lum berry or leftover depending on which position I have them, he switches into it, T-waves, lum berry and taunt it, its over for him, all of these are design to take out klefki, Murknow is for lower, way lower tiers, Whimsicott is more useful, and lum berry is good, also its funny most people usally use klefki as a first or second, so I always know when its coming, also wierdly Tamoflame is a good counter on him, its speed and a lum berry goes along way
By that logic, anything with Lum Berry can switch into Klefki, in which case you'd likely be better off equipping Lum Berry on a Ground-type or something. Even then, Lum Berry is only a one-time check to Klefki, so you shouldn't be heavily reliant on it to deal with Klefki, especially when you consider the latter can switch out and do it again later, only this time you have no Lum Berry to protect you. I notice you used Taunt as an argument, but make sure your Taunter can actually do something back to Klefki: as I've already mentioned your Whimsicott and Murkrow still can't do anything to Klefki while it sits there Foul Playing you. In the case of Whimsicott, Klefki can just switch to a Grass-type teammate and force it back out, threatening the puffball with a Thunder Wave next time it tries to switch in and stop Klefki.
Gliscor and Magezone are generally considered the most reliable Klefki responses in that they don't particularly care for anything SwagKey tries to pull, and threatening back with powerful attacks. Those are true counters.
I don't see the point of running SwagKey when Eject Klefki supports set-up sweepers so well:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-72915478
Klefki @ Eject Button
Impish, 252HP 252Def
Foul Play
Reflect
Light Screen
Safeguard
I'm in love with Safeguard due to the amount of T.Waves and WoWs that get thrown by every wall. My build is Taunt bait but at least Foul Play makes it hard for physical sweepers to start setting up and convinces them to trigger the Eject.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-72915478
Klefki @ Eject Button
Impish, 252HP 252Def
Foul Play
Reflect
Light Screen
Safeguard
I'm in love with Safeguard due to the amount of T.Waves and WoWs that get thrown by every wall. My build is Taunt bait but at least Foul Play makes it hard for physical sweepers to start setting up and convinces them to trigger the Eject.
You guys are using suboptimal evs. Use 252 hp, 152 def, 104 SpD Bold.
Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/klefki-qc-0-3.3495194/
Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/klefki-qc-0-3.3495194/
Disregarding the bit about his design (there's a bit more to it than immediately obvious, but this isn't the place to talk about it,) a suicide hazard setter is probably one of the worse ways to utilize Klefki (or any Pokemon, really.) It's pretty easy to get rid of hazards these days, and when you ensure your hazard setter isn't going to be around after the first few turns, there's not much pressure to quickly get rid of them. Klefki has other options, but smart play is needed to get the most out of the guy.
I'm thinking of running this. I seems like it could either be annoyingly good or just awful.
Klefki @ Red Card
244 HP / 252 Def / 8 Sp.Def
Careful Nature
- Swagger
- T-Wave
- Foul Play
- Spikes/Toxic/Theif/Reflect
To start, I would like to say that Prankster is a bitch. Seriously sets like this are really overpowered. T-Wave first, then, if it's a wall or special sweeper, use Swagger to confuse. If you are feeling lucky you can use Swagger on something physical, then go for the Foul Play that pairs ever so nicely with Swagger, giving Klefki an unexpected offensive edge. The last slot in up to the user. If you lack hazards put spikes, if you want to cripple a wall use Toxic, if you have lost your red card use Theif to piss off your opponent because now their beloved pokemon doesn't have that necessary item. Reflect is there to make sure no physical pokemon named Lucario and Scizor prioritize you (in the case you've lost your red card). Overall this looks nice, what do you guys think?
Klefki @ Red Card
244 HP / 252 Def / 8 Sp.Def
Careful Nature
- Swagger
- T-Wave
- Foul Play
- Spikes/Toxic/Theif/Reflect
To start, I would like to say that Prankster is a bitch. Seriously sets like this are really overpowered. T-Wave first, then, if it's a wall or special sweeper, use Swagger to confuse. If you are feeling lucky you can use Swagger on something physical, then go for the Foul Play that pairs ever so nicely with Swagger, giving Klefki an unexpected offensive edge. The last slot in up to the user. If you lack hazards put spikes, if you want to cripple a wall use Toxic, if you have lost your red card use Theif to piss off your opponent because now their beloved pokemon doesn't have that necessary item. Reflect is there to make sure no physical pokemon named Lucario and Scizor prioritize you (in the case you've lost your red card). Overall this looks nice, what do you guys think?
I tried Red Card and it's not very good. First of all, it requires you to get hit, and taking hits isn't Klefki's forte. Sometimes a Pokemon you want to set up on gets switched out and it's not really an inconvenience for the opponent. It also seems counterproductive with Swagger because causing a random switch for the opponent defeats the purpose of Swagger, which is to force the opponent to waste turns.
What should it be replaced with then? I can't think of anything, not Leftovers due to its lack of bulk...
Leftovers is actually the best item for a Klefki that likes to sit back and take its time. Its bulk might not be impressive, but its resists more than make up for it, and being able to passively heal off the damage to take more beatings lets Klefki stick around longer. Swagger / Thunder Wave helps to buy those turns, and aid Klefki in its survival should the opponent not be immobilized.
Alternatively, you could run Switcheroo (still uncertain whether it is implemented on the servers) and pass a crippling item like Iron Ball or Choice items onto the opponent.
I came for the Klefki, but stayed for the Eject Button info. Fascinating, I had no idea that it countered the switch-out effect of U-Turn and Volt Switch. It's a tactic a lot of tanks might well find useful.
Most if not every tank would prefer leftovers or assault vest. Eject button/Red card are very gimmicky items. To repeat myself:
You guys are using suboptimal evs. Use 252 hp, 152 def, 104 SpD Bold.
Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/klefki-qc-0-3.3495194/
Maybe I'm just not utilizing Klefki as well as I should be, but seems there's always a Prankster on the opponent's team just ready to Taunt me (Points to Whimsicott)
No one uses Whimsicott, few people use Taunt on Tornadus-I or Thundurus-I, and Liepard doesn't exist in OU. Sableye is slower than Klefki.
You're probably using it wrong.
I was making a perfect baton pass team and the only thing that I couldnt cover is a red card klefki, I was able to magic bounce any roars or whirlwinds and had a fairy to stop Dtails, but at the end of the day I had to activate that red card which lost me the game. So if anything it is good against baton teams, or similiar set up sweepers.
That being said I started using just a bunch of different pokes and I seriously think klefki deserves Ubers, especially with the twave/swagger/foul play/ Sub set. I mean look at this game that I clearly lost but I ended up killing four pokes with klefki.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-74079936
You know, I think that sort of close-minded "any even remotely unique item or strategy is gimmicky ewww" mindset sometimes eliminates really interesting strategies. It's no fun to play Pokemon if everybody plays exactly the same, and I for one see the potential in those items.
I don't know, I just dislike the instinctive nature some people on here have to brand anything that doesn't suit their unique playstyle as "gimmicky". There's a lot of variety to Pokemon that people don't exploit because they're too busy copying what everybody else is doing.
I do understand some items/sets/Pokemon etc. get used more often because they work well. That's logical. But I do believe there is room for more variety that people aren't using, and that if used well items like Red Card and Eject Button do have purpose and use in the metagame. It's just that people don't even try to use certain items for fear of being criticized by the group mentality that only certain items are "worthy" of competitive play when there are strategies and plays that could be based upon those items. Strategies that could work rather well.
Just a weird ramble I suppose. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Eject Button and Red Card can be used well and I've seen them being used well, and to shun them instinctively without even seeing them in proper use gets a little frustrating.
I use Whimsicott and Liepard in OU... but then, what would I know, right?
Perhaps on a more serious note, I see Taunt on the genies a lot, though....?
I've seen one Whimsicott and zero Liepard, and zero genies with Taunt.
Klefki is not getting Taunted very often. I've been Taunted like twice, and both instances were after I set up my Screens.
I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but oblivious mamoswine is one of the best counters to swaggkey, being immune to both confusion and paralysis. Thick fat is still much better, however.
Oblivious makes the Pokemon immune to Attract and Taunt not to confusion, you are confusing it with Own Tempo.
If you Switcheroo an Assault Vest does it work like a perma-Taunt?
Yeah, except you can't actually use Switcheroo while holding the Assault Vest.
That's right, I'm stupid.
Anyway, regarding the EVs, I think the optimal would be 200 HP EVs, since it's 305 which is a Leftovers number and we know how much Klefki loves Leftovers. 168 DEF / 140 SDEF seems good to me.
OH MY GOD THIS KEY IS INCREDIBLE.
And I like that spread too. I'm a sucker for Leftovers numbers. However, the spread of 200 HP / 184 Def / 124 SpD Bold may be a little better in the sense that it's the closest to how the "analysis" spread of 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 SpD takes hits (HP adjusted to better work with Sub than the analysis' spread). I used a boring Aegislash as an example in my calcs:
- 0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 104 SpD Klefki: 123-145 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Damage range: 123-145)
- 0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 200 HP / 124 SpD Klefki: 120-142 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Damage range: 120-142)
- 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Klefki: 52-63 (16.4 - 19.8%) -- possible 6HKO (Damage range: 51-60)
- 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 200 HP / 184+ Def Klefki: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.6%) -- guaranteed 6HKO (Damage range: 52-63)
Klefki @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Recycle
- Light Screen / Spikes
- Reflect
- Foul Play
Can anyone rate my set and critique this set for me? Garchomp has a really hard time dealing with this set if they aren't carrying Stone Edge / Fire Fang, and if they dare to set up, then Foul Play will take care of them. Basically bored of abusing paraswag key and want to try a new set.
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Recycle
- Light Screen / Spikes
- Reflect
- Foul Play
Can anyone rate my set and critique this set for me? Garchomp has a really hard time dealing with this set if they aren't carrying Stone Edge / Fire Fang, and if they dare to set up, then Foul Play will take care of them. Basically bored of abusing paraswag key and want to try a new set.
- Status