Latin America's deadliest fire.

[Darkaxis]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...-rips-through-honduras-prison-86908-23753651/


This happened on Valentine's Day, at midnight. Fire started at Room cell 6 which then consumed the other cells. That isn't the most shocking thing. The most thing is that 360 deaths were reported. According to some survivors they woke up at 11:30 hearing the screams of agony of their partners. They covered their bodies with their furnaced friends. Families of the prisoners stayed outside the the prison for 3 days waiting for news on their loved ones.
The most disturbing thing is that... while some prisoners were trying to escape officers of the prison were shooting them to death. Families of the killed ones were filled with rage, and killed some offficers. It was truly a massacre.
My question is.. are police officers and the military planned all this? It doesn't seem like an accident, and officers attacking prisoners? That is bullshit. If you thought U.S.A. was bad, check again.

 

[moonbound]

I think it's more likely that a prisoner started the fire hoping it would open up a chance to escape (which explains why they were trying to escape). I don't have a specific example, but I am sure that something like that has happened before, prisoners in desperation deciding to try and cause chaos with a fire so they can escape. The officers shooting the prisoners is questionable, but they were trying to escape and it was a spur of the moment thing. Also, if the officers tried to chase and capture the escaping prisoners, that would just provide an opportunity for more prisoners to escape or burn to death, because I bet they didn't have anywhere near enough officers to handle a situation like that.

tl;dr: prisoners might not be entirely the innocent victims you claim they are, remember that those who were shot were attempting to escape from prison

 

[vonFiedler]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...-rips-through-honduras-prison-86908-23753651/

The most disturbing thing is that... while some prisoners were trying to escape officers of the prison were shooting them to death. Families of the killed ones were filled with rage, and killed some offficers. Some even say that it is equal to a Holocaust.
My question is.. are police officers and the military planned all this? It doesn't seem like an accident, and officers attacking prisoners? That is bullshit. If you thought U.S.A. was bad, check again.

None of this is in the link.

 

[Darkaxis]

It was in my local newspaper! I wouldn't post anything that is in the link would I? That'd be redundant.

 

[vonFiedler]

It wouldn't be redundant to source allegations like that, no. In fact I can find nothing to support any of that.

 

[Matthew]

How can you compare that to the holocaust? When people say things about the holocaust so casually is where it loses how drastically awful it was. I just can't believe that people exaggerate to that extent. Even worse it says "equal to the holocaust" in your OP. How many people died? Was it 6 million people that died in this fire? No, it was 360. Please don't compare the two of these incidents ever again. While the fire was sad, it is no holocaust.

 

[waterwarrior]

Matthew, I understand your rage (I lost about 15 family members in the Holocaust) but he compared it to a Holocaust, not the Holocaust.

a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire

EDIT: Oh yeah, the topic. Honestly, prison riots happen all the time. Doesn't matter where. It even says, right in the article, that AN INMATE STARTED IT. This was planned, yes, but not by the officers. They're not at fault. As vonFielder said, it says nowhere in the article that the guards were shooting people (and I have yet to see proof >.>), and if they were, these people were probably about to die anyway. Personally, I'd much rather have a quick, painless death by getting shot in the head than die slowly and go through the agony of burning to death. The only way the police are at fault is that they overcrowded the jail.

 

[GARCHOMPZILLA]

I agree with that, 6000000 is no comparison to 360. And keep this in mind (sorry if I'm offending anybody): These were prisoners. They're in here for a reason, and aren't exactly the kindhearted souls who never did any harm that the people killed by the holocaust were, or in comparison to almost anybody. If it were me and had to choose between life in prison and burning alive, i go with the second, it's quicker.

It is sad they had to kill them though and couldn't try to save them, I think prisons should be more prepared for disasters like these.

EDit:, ninja'd and that's true i suppose, but these people might've deserved it( were some murderers) and for some, dying in a fire is better than spending 50 years in a cramped room, no family, no comfort, etc.

 

[Killah]

You generally don't capitalize "Holocaust" unless you were talking about "[the] Holocaust."

This is a tragedy, especially considering most of the inmates had not even been charged or had convicted yet, so it's not like they were all in there for a reason.

However, it is highly likely that the prison guards were given orders to shoot and kill anyone who tried to escape; it is also likely that the prisoners knew this. I'm not forgiving the shootings, if that part of the story was true, but by running it's likely they knew what they were getting into.

It's also highly likely that the newspaper was "enhancing" that part of the story just to get publicity.


Sadly, there is very nearly nothing that third world countries can do (or will do) to improve prison conditions. Even if they were wrongfully incarcerated, they are still viewed as very close to the bottom of importance to the country, and thus will be last to receive any kind of government improvement. It's no surprise that these prisons are literal hellholes, which is why the fire killed so many.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

a lot more than 6 million people were killed in the holocaust.

anyway, i've always been of the opinion that the number people being killed is just a statistic and really doesn't say anything about the problem at hand. "x getting killed is preferable to y getting killed, where x < y" has never sat well with me. when (almost) everyone dies in a fire, i call it a holocaust.

the prison guards were just being prison guards. remember that we're talking about the sort of person who signs up for a job where they get to boss people around with guns -- they were never in the running for a nobel peace prize.

I think it's more likely that a prisoner started the fire hoping it would open up a chance to escape (which explains why they were trying to escape). I don't have a specific example, but I am sure that something like that has happened before, prisoners in desperation deciding to try and cause chaos with a fire so they can escape. The officers shooting the prisoners is questionable, but they were trying to escape and it was a spur of the moment thing. Also, if the officers tried to chase and capture the escaping prisoners, that would just provide an opportunity for more prisoners to escape or burn to death, because I bet they didn't have anywhere near enough officers to handle a situation like that.

tl;dr: prisoners might not be entirely the innocent victims you claim they are, remember that those who were shot were attempting to escape from prison

can't handle a situation? better start shooting everyone

 

[az]

what kind of a way to think is that?

"these people were always assholes, the atrocities they have commityed can't REALLY surprise you..."

 

[Umbreon Dan]

how else should i react?

"i'm shocked, shocked to find dicks with guns killing people!"

 

[az]

you don't have to pretend to be surprised, but you don't have to shrug your shoulders as though their behaviour is excusable or even justified

your apathy is really inspiring, man

 

[Umbreon Dan]

i'm not excusing them or arguing that it's justified, and i'm certainly not apathetic. i'm just cynical about humanity as a whole. everyone's going to kill everyone until everyone's dead, and i've given up trying to change it

 

[az]

i'm certainly not apathetic.

everyone's going to kill everyone until everyone's dead, and i've given up trying to change it

uhuh

 

[vonFiedler]

Why are you guys even dignifying the notion that guards shot people enough to have an argument about cynicism when;

1. There is no source to cite for this.
2. You're attributing to malice what could be attributed to incompetence (article says they thought it was a jail break) when
3. The real problem is how horribly awful these overcrowded prisons are. Fires like this have happened before and while "holocaust" is kind of bullshit it's the right kind of reaction, the one where people realize this was horrible and should move to make changes. Coming up with conspiracy theories or blaming the guards (a symptom, not a cause) will not help.

 

[az]

there doesn't need to be a source for me to argue that if that is the case, which is the premise ud's post was on, his attitude was shitty

again, not attributing to malice, arguing that if x is the case y, etc etc

honestly why are you trying to police this anyway, you're way out of your depth

 

[ButteredToast]

I learned to never be in disbelief of the stupidity of people.

 

[vonFiedler]

you're way out of your depth

What the hell is this supposed to mean? If it's not minecraft I'm not allowed to make and argue points?

There's not a lot about the incident itself for me to discuss. It was horrible and with this coverage should shed light on a humanitarian effort that has existed for years. That's still more on point than opening a thread with unsourced accusations (I mean I could be open to some things but why haven't we heard about prison guards being murdered by family members?) and conspiracy theories, or reacting off of those instead of talking about a very real tragedy. I'm not doling out imaginary infractions, I just don't want the thread totally derailed because I actually DO read these. It's why I didn't jump down his throat for comparing it to the holocaust, I knew that would (and has) derailed the thread a tiny bit.

 

[az]

it means that if you didn't grasp the most basic premises of a discussion you are in no place to attempt to deconstruct it, much less try to call other users out

i agree that there's not enough coverage or information here, but that isn't a reason to make a post like that

and this was in the name of not detailing the thread...

 

[Alan]

i'm certainly not apathetic.

everyone's going to kill everyone until everyone's dead, and i've given up trying to change it

uhuh

thats not apathy, that's cynicism.

i dont really have anything to contribute to the thread, but i just wanted to point that out.

 

[Stratos]

i'm not excusing them or arguing that it's justified, and i'm certainly not apathetic. i'm just cynical about humanity as a whole. everyone's going to kill everyone until everyone's dead, and i've given up trying to change it

don't tell me bolded part's not apathy

 

[iDunno]

wow dude shut the fuck up, Some Hero. Do you know why the prison burned down? It burned down because nobody really tried to put it out. The prison was overcrowded by over 500 prisoners. there were over 850 prisoners that were incarcerated. The prison limit was about 300 prisoners. The fire was started by a group of about 80 prisoners that were trying to escape, but the fire went out of control. The government decided that a fire was probably a great way to get rid of all of the prisoners so they decided to just burn them all alive. I know someone who's uncle died in this fire. Not all of these people are "bad people". A startling amount are merely political prisoners that didn't deserve to be put in prison in the first place.

 

[Stratos]

iDunno, i highly doubt the government decided in cold blood to let political prisoners burn.

get more reliable sources next time bro

 

[GARCHOMPZILLA]

at this point I don't think anyone could change the fact everyone's killing eachother look at afghanistan(mispelled i think) and Iraq, more weapons are being made, etc.

Anyway I think this is sad and all, but keep in mind there are lot more people who this would have been worse to happen to (would you rather have an orphanage or a prison burn down if you had to choose?), being that these people were in prison to start with. There were definitly some innocents but a lot were probably actual criminals/etc. The prisoner in the article who started the fire was probably insane, suicidal or just wanted everyone dead.