Yes.
Also, I'm willing to help. LC STABmons will be launched soon, now that I'm back to activity as normal. *-*
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Metagame LC OM Megathread!
- Thread starter tazz
- Start date
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Also, I'm willing to help. LC STABmons will be launched soon, now that I'm back to activity as normal. *-*
Melon
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
:] This is happening.
LC STABmons was already launched. No one was playing it. :/ If I'm going to be replaced, I'd appreciate at the very least the common courtesy of a head's up. I've been on my phone because my computer's getting repaired.
There is no reason to ban King's Rock. If there is an issue, I suggest banning Shellder, as it is the obvious issue. Still, Water Shuriken Shellder sucks ass compared to Corphish.
I meant VR and Threats, not a new thing @_@. Also, Archen may be banned. And King's Rock / Razor Claw are banned alongside Chatter in regular STABmons, and I'll enforce it here. Cloyster was the issue in STABmons, but it is not banned.
Okay, I've said this before and I will say it again: we are not applying bans because we feel they are analygous to those in standard STABmons. These are separate metagames, and contrary to belief, do not have identical rulesets, as LC STABMons is derived from a certain minitour. This is for consistency and to attract older members that participated in said tour.
There's less reason to ban Archen in STABmons. It's easily an S rank mon, but it's absurd to suggest that it may be banned
Edit: seriously, we had a whole discussion on NOT banning shit for little reason. In fact, I don't know why I'm being replaced.
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I'm putting together a council, we will vote on it. Archen has high Speed, great power, and now has two excellent STAB moves to abuse. It resists priority, and even has utility to it. Do you really think it's healthy for the tier if it flat out wins games that lack a solid check to it? I don't. Is it banworthy? Undecided. Which is why I need a council.
Well fuck, we better ban Pawniard too. And Cottonee. And Corphish. And Fletchling. While we're at it, let's ban every remotely threatening mon, because any mon that isn't checked can win a game.
After discussion in the OM room with some people who were playing STABmons LC, we've decide Normal Clause must remain on. Archen is banned, Fletchling is suspect. King's Rock and Razor Claw are also banned.
Reasoning:
Normal Clause is 100% needed, and should never have been experimented as off lol... It's just crazy in LC because there's a smaller pool to pick from, rolls, and Extreme Speed is easier to spam with less Steel / Ghost Pokemon. Too powerful, and it has to stay on for the remainder of the tier.
Archen is banned because of the reasons I already mentioned. It can check a ton of the tier, flat out KO other portions, and comes with utility. There's little reason not to run it, and the community agreed it wasn't good in the tier due to its insane offensive prowess, forcing you to run weird checks / counters to stop it.
Fletchling was being complained about, but I'm not sold that it's broken. The main reason is the introduction of Dragon Ascent, allowing for a much swifter and powerful move. Choice Band becomes viable, and Fletchling can now soft check a large portion of the tier.
Finally, King's Rock / Razor Claw have to go. In one word, they're both bullshit. Aipom and Shellder are the two main users, and they are both insanely bullshit with the item. Tail Slap does at least 15 damage, and has a 40% chance to flinch on top of that. Shellder muscles through its counters with Icicle Spear and Water Shuriken. Both of these are no fun!
Of course the metagame is in early development, and this logic has been based off of a small pool of battles we've had as a group. Of course they're bound to change, but these are just preliminary stuff to make the metagame as enjoyable as possible from the start to gain activity, then go back and rework things if we feel it's possible.
Discussions mainly in part from The Reptile and AnybodyAgrees.
Reasoning:
Normal Clause is 100% needed, and should never have been experimented as off lol... It's just crazy in LC because there's a smaller pool to pick from, rolls, and Extreme Speed is easier to spam with less Steel / Ghost Pokemon. Too powerful, and it has to stay on for the remainder of the tier.
Archen is banned because of the reasons I already mentioned. It can check a ton of the tier, flat out KO other portions, and comes with utility. There's little reason not to run it, and the community agreed it wasn't good in the tier due to its insane offensive prowess, forcing you to run weird checks / counters to stop it.
Fletchling was being complained about, but I'm not sold that it's broken. The main reason is the introduction of Dragon Ascent, allowing for a much swifter and powerful move. Choice Band becomes viable, and Fletchling can now soft check a large portion of the tier.
Finally, King's Rock / Razor Claw have to go. In one word, they're both bullshit. Aipom and Shellder are the two main users, and they are both insanely bullshit with the item. Tail Slap does at least 15 damage, and has a 40% chance to flinch on top of that. Shellder muscles through its counters with Icicle Spear and Water Shuriken. Both of these are no fun!
Of course the metagame is in early development, and this logic has been based off of a small pool of battles we've had as a group. Of course they're bound to change, but these are just preliminary stuff to make the metagame as enjoyable as possible from the start to gain activity, then go back and rework things if we feel it's possible.
Discussions mainly in part from The Reptile and AnybodyAgrees.
Honestly I never had a problem with King's Rock. Water Shurriken does jack shit damage to most bulky Pokemon, is very easy to wall / outspeed. It's chance to flinch (unless im mistaken) is the same odds of Hypnomiss missing.
That reasoning for Archen should probably be more concrete. Are you confusing this with AAA?
That reasoning for Archen should probably be more concrete. Are you confusing this with AAA?
We need a whole lot more discussion in this thread as to whether or not archen is OBVIOUSLY broken, as this was pretty sudden and literally happened over night lol, if something needs to be quickbanned then i'd want discussion from everyone and have everyone have time to do it, and considering we're trying to follow this guideline as much as possible, i'm not going to be adding archen into the banlist in the OP. I'm open to banning it if everyone believes it is very obviously broken and making the meta bad to play, but currently there is not enough support in this thread to do so.
as soon as my AP testing is over i'll try to write up some resources for AAA and STABmons, resources should be the priority right now, not banning stuff.
I'm not a formatting genius so if anyone has a couple ways to make the OP look prettier i'd love some help because formatting isn't my thing.
Archen does not need to be quockbanned. There are tons of solid checks in the way of Steel types. The fact that taking a strong hit always places it at a disadvantage causes issues maintaining momentum. No offense but I don't know why you think you're going to take charge all of a sudden, especially when you obviously haven't played enough of this metagame to recognize checks, or even that stuff like Shellder are actually pretty bad lol.
These bans are arbitrary, and extremely baseless. If you're going to hijack a project, I'd appreciate it if you did it right.
These bans are arbitrary, and extremely baseless. If you're going to hijack a project, I'd appreciate it if you did it right.
Nope. Admittedly, I would like more discussion from the thread. So discuss it. It's just a small group of people who actually play it, and we were discussing it for a bit last night, and people agreed on banning it. That's why we have this thread, aha? Please discuss Archen and Fletchling. Sorry for making quickbans, I'm just trying to hustle it out so that the metagame is more enjoyable.
I can't say I know this meta, I've honestly hardly had a chance to really get into LC, but I feel that, at least on paper, it seems really, really good. It can effectively utilize a lot of good abilities to become, again, on paper, an absolute monster. For example, protean, gale wings, adaptability, even reckless could be good, aerilate would be a force. (Actually, it might be banned, I can't remember.)
I'm not saying it needs to be banned, but it def deserves a looking into.
He's talking about STABmons, not AAA.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Tbh, I think unfixable is actually doing the right thing. Banning OP stuff quickly makes for a more enjoyable experience when entering the metagame (spamming broken shit is not fun), and anyway, everything CAN be retested at a later date. My thought on Archen are that it probably should be banned. It has insane attack, good speed, and high BP moves allowing it to put a dent in just about everything. It also has EQ for Steel types (which also handily avoids the stat drops from King's Shield) making it a force to be reckoned with. As this is STABmons so it now gets reliable recovery in Roost so if you were thinking of wearing it down via FakeSpeed (which btw you can't even do due to normal clause) you can't so it'll Roost back to full. In other words, if you can't outspeed and OHKO it, it will Roost in your face and proceed to wreck you. This is also ignoring the support it can provide via Stealth Rock on predicted switches or Tailwind to help teammates. I am on unfixable's side for this ban.
As for King's Rock, it's not so much OP as it is uncompetitive. Shellder, admittedly, is not a great month, but with the ability to set up to +2 and then proceed to hit you with. 75 BP STAB priority move with a 41% chance to flinch, it can simply hax its way past any of its counters. Again, I agree with unfixable, King's Rock/Razor Claw are uncompetitive and needed to go. This also prevents having to ban Shellder or other Water types, as they are not OP without this item, thus creating a healthier metagame with continued variety.
As for King's Rock, it's not so much OP as it is uncompetitive. Shellder, admittedly, is not a great month, but with the ability to set up to +2 and then proceed to hit you with. 75 BP STAB priority move with a 41% chance to flinch, it can simply hax its way past any of its counters. Again, I agree with unfixable, King's Rock/Razor Claw are uncompetitive and needed to go. This also prevents having to ban Shellder or other Water types, as they are not OP without this item, thus creating a healthier metagame with continued variety.
I've talked to Tazz who had confirmed that I'm still leading STABmons. I've had absolutely enough with this squabbling, and since coming to a proper conclusion is not going to happen without throwing a bit of my weight into it, I'm going to have to explain that neither King's Rock nor Archen are ban worthy. While I'm open to suggestions, I've previously made it clear I'm not accepting people into council until I feel that people are playing. There is no legitimate reason to quickban anything as of now.
Archen for instance is actually checked by a lot. King's Rock isn't any different. While thevpresence of luck is uncompetitive, it's an aspect that isn't that much of a shift in mechanics, do I wrong ban it.
Archen for instance is actually checked by a lot. King's Rock isn't any different. While thevpresence of luck is uncompetitive, it's an aspect that isn't that much of a shift in mechanics, do I wrong ban it.
Oh, guess I misread that. I'm feeling sheepish...
STABMONS IS GETTING KINKY
Melonz i challenge you to a 1 v 1 lacrosse duel for leadership of AAA, just kidding you can be helped by my posting of a truly AIDS team i used when that tour happened:
http://pastebin.com/WLjCGdE8
yeah, i did it; I- I admit it, pick your next move, you can leave or live with it: i used a webs team in my past, and it worked. I'll run through the mons quickly:
- Surskit sets up webs w/ mold breaker, Haze beats the setup shit of AAA (Briyella brought a BP team that was murked by haze, etc)
- Timburr is the Pawn-beater, trapping and KOing, and can put on pressure by virtue of being a fucking animal itself.
- Pawn is a strong strong AAA mon, one of the main sweepers on normal webs and is better here
- Abra I use with Protean for surprise typeswitching shennanigans and power, it's a strong mon. if your opp is bring in a sucker puncher use dgleam to kill that fight type so you easy stop it. If protean goes (has it?) use sheer force instead and spam strong psychic while bluffing sash
- Chinchou is a momentum-grabber and weather counter with cloud nine; the two main weathermons - bone and clamp - are both slowed and donked by chou. it also does chou shit idk
- Houndour is a weird one, i like it after testing though. Taunt and prankster means taunt works v other's prankster mons, and dbond + prankster with speed is a free kill usually, also it still bodies shit
this team lost to the brilliant water absorb drill being sent out, setting up, and soaking chou's rk attempt, so be wary of that. hope this helps and dont use it people but you can
Melonz i challenge you to a 1 v 1 lacrosse duel for leadership of AAA, just kidding you can be helped by my posting of a truly AIDS team i used when that tour happened:
http://pastebin.com/WLjCGdE8
yeah, i did it; I- I admit it, pick your next move, you can leave or live with it: i used a webs team in my past, and it worked. I'll run through the mons quickly:
- Surskit sets up webs w/ mold breaker, Haze beats the setup shit of AAA (Briyella brought a BP team that was murked by haze, etc)
- Timburr is the Pawn-beater, trapping and KOing, and can put on pressure by virtue of being a fucking animal itself.
- Pawn is a strong strong AAA mon, one of the main sweepers on normal webs and is better here
- Abra I use with Protean for surprise typeswitching shennanigans and power, it's a strong mon. if your opp is bring in a sucker puncher use dgleam to kill that fight type so you easy stop it. If protean goes (has it?) use sheer force instead and spam strong psychic while bluffing sash
- Chinchou is a momentum-grabber and weather counter with cloud nine; the two main weathermons - bone and clamp - are both slowed and donked by chou. it also does chou shit idk
- Houndour is a weird one, i like it after testing though. Taunt and prankster means taunt works v other's prankster mons, and dbond + prankster with speed is a free kill usually, also it still bodies shit
this team lost to the brilliant water absorb drill being sent out, setting up, and soaking chou's rk attempt, so be wary of that. hope this helps and dont use it people but you can
tazz please update the OP with the monotype Viability rankings, the C-Rank is just filler so, it is not really needed. I mean, please update the OP in General eg; including my council's names and mine to the OP. Also update the unbans such as, Misdreavus, Meditite (On Psychic), and how Fletchling is banned in the LC Monotype metagame. Thank you.
i'm not involved with lc stabmons / this thread anymore, so no
megapost
Omastar42 and I just had a great LC doubles battle, with everything except swirlix, tangela, yanma, swirlix, sneasel and scyther unbanned (yanma may be unbanned as well) What are everyone's thoughts on this ban list? in regular doubles many of the banned pokemon in OU end up being balanced by doubles, and the same effect could be seen here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-236541416
please note that I am bad at doubles and just through that team together.
I'm going to start writing an LC STABmons threatlist, anyone that wants to add some PM me here or on PS and i'll add yours
Threatlist:
Archen: Archen is an offensive menace for any team to face, with extremely powerful dual STABs in diamond storm and dragon's ascent (those are allowed right?), while also being able to serve as a flying check, defogger, and a SR user at times. With it hitting essentially the entire meta for neutral or SE damage, it is absolutely essential to have something that can revenge or otherwise deal with archen.
Munchlax: With the acquisition of BD + extreme speed, munch lax becomes an extremely bulky zigzagoon, and is extremely easy to set up with. being able to use things like fire punch unlike zigzagoon and having a higher attack, it is overall a much more threatening sweeper. This pokemon must also be prepared for.
Ferroseed: being able to now utilize synthesis and a plethora of other STABs, ferroseed is the same old annoying seed that we have come to know and hate. Although it does have 4MSS, ferroseed is something that can now stay around for the match with the addition of synthesis, making it all the more threatening
Pawniard: With the addition of dangerous moves like shift gear and dark void, pawniard is a very potent attacker and can now sweep very effectively. It is the same pawniard as in LC, but with a few new tricks
Purrloin: With the plethora of setup sweepers in the tier, purrloin is a great check to these using its vast support move pool, including knock off, thunder wave, u-turn, dark void, encore, etc. Being able to stop setup sweepers (with the exception of e speed users) is very important for many teams, and leads to use
I admittedly was very brief in these, as soon as I have enough i'll edit it into the OP. Please help!
Omastar42 and I just had a great LC doubles battle, with everything except swirlix, tangela, yanma, swirlix, sneasel and scyther unbanned (yanma may be unbanned as well) What are everyone's thoughts on this ban list? in regular doubles many of the banned pokemon in OU end up being balanced by doubles, and the same effect could be seen here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-236541416
please note that I am bad at doubles and just through that team together.
I'm going to start writing an LC STABmons threatlist, anyone that wants to add some PM me here or on PS and i'll add yours
Threatlist:
Archen: Archen is an offensive menace for any team to face, with extremely powerful dual STABs in diamond storm and dragon's ascent (those are allowed right?), while also being able to serve as a flying check, defogger, and a SR user at times. With it hitting essentially the entire meta for neutral or SE damage, it is absolutely essential to have something that can revenge or otherwise deal with archen.
Munchlax: With the acquisition of BD + extreme speed, munch lax becomes an extremely bulky zigzagoon, and is extremely easy to set up with. being able to use things like fire punch unlike zigzagoon and having a higher attack, it is overall a much more threatening sweeper. This pokemon must also be prepared for.
Ferroseed: being able to now utilize synthesis and a plethora of other STABs, ferroseed is the same old annoying seed that we have come to know and hate. Although it does have 4MSS, ferroseed is something that can now stay around for the match with the addition of synthesis, making it all the more threatening
Pawniard: With the addition of dangerous moves like shift gear and dark void, pawniard is a very potent attacker and can now sweep very effectively. It is the same pawniard as in LC, but with a few new tricks
Purrloin: With the plethora of setup sweepers in the tier, purrloin is a great check to these using its vast support move pool, including knock off, thunder wave, u-turn, dark void, encore, etc. Being able to stop setup sweepers (with the exception of e speed users) is very important for many teams, and leads to use
I admittedly was very brief in these, as soon as I have enough i'll edit it into the OP. Please help!
Yes. send a pm with the interested parties and I'll sort from there.
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