Little Cup Metagame Development

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hmm, this is lounging at the bottom of the page. Atm, I think DeepSeaTooth will be banned, as baton passing Agility boosts to Clamperl (Gligar in particular, has weaknesses that are resisted by Clamperl) makes it nigh on impossible to conventionally stop unless you are using very fast scarfers.

Clamperl will not be banned I don't think because DeepSeaScale is still a good item on it so the consensus is to not ban it because it's only broken with DeepSeaTooth.

Also many analyses are in the pipeline, such as Rain and Sun themed teams as well as a list of illegal move combinations for common pokemon.
 
Posting this on Eric's behalf

Porygon



Code:
Stat--base min- min  max max+
HP----65---N/A--23---26--N/A
Att---60---10---12---15--16   
Def---70---11---13---16--17
Sp.A--85---13---15---18--19
Sp.D--75---12---14---17--18
Spe---40---9----10---13--14
[SET]
name: Special Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4:Thunderbolt
item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash / Life Orb
ability: Download
nature: Quiet
evs: 120 Def / 240 SpA / 80 SpD
ivs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 2 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With 8 Speed not much will go before this under Trick Room, and if it gets a Download boost not much can stand in the way of its awesome 28 Special Attack. This can sweep teams without a Special wall if you get Trick Room going, and with 23 HP and 15 and 16 Defence and Special Defence respectively, it's not that hard.</p>

<p>Moves are pretty straight forward BoltBeam is nice for type coverage and Hidden Power [Fighting] takes down the main Special wall, Munchlax, although Shadow Ball could work over it though.</p>

<p>Oran gives you a second chance to set up Trick Room against weaker attacks, while Focus Sash Guarantees your first set-up even on the strongest opponents as Trick Room will always go last and you will most likely take a hit if your opponent doesn't switch. Life Orb can also work if you want that extra bit of power, but the recoil is a waste of those great defences.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting / Ground]
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Choice Specs
ability: Download
nature: Modest
evs: 116 Def / 236 SpA / 156 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Even without a STAB attack this thing can be a major threat due to its brilliant type coverage and sheer power (Choice Specs+Download = 42 SpA, even without Download it still hits 28) Hidden Power [Fighting] can take out those Munchlax who seek to slow you down, while Ground beats down the BoltBeam resisters, namely Chinchou and Magmemite.</p>

<p>No EVs have been invested in Speed as the max without a nature boost is 13 and this does not outspeed anything worthwhile so defensive EVs are more useful.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Return
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb / Focus sash
ability: Download
nature: Quiet
evs: 196 Att / 36 Def / 236 SpA
ivs: 0 spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set really takes advantage of Download, and can take out many of the Pokemon that stop the pure Sp. Sweeper. Shadow Ball is an Option over Thunderbolt or Ice Beam for those Ghosts.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Choice Scarf could work, but even at max speed and a + Nature it only reaches 21 speed, a number considered mediocre by Choice Scarf standards, so Specs is often a better option. If you do use Choice Scarf max out speed and use a Timid nature.</p>

<p>Porygon has a few options not mentioned on any of the sets, Hidden Power Fire / Fighting / Ground, Psychic, and Charge Beam can all work, but they do not significantly improve type coverage. If you are desperate for STAB your only special options are Hyper Beam, which, even though its side effect is horrible -- especially in the fast paced Little Cup -- has massive power, or Swift which has so low base power that it's almost not worth using, even with STAB.</p>

<p>Recycle and Oran Berry could let you use a defensive set to some effect, however Shoddy Battle has not yet implemented Recycle so it can't be used yet.</p>

<p>Porygon's other ability; Trace has some use for revenge killing trappers like Diglett, Magnemite and Trapinch, and for Tracing an opponent's Flash Fire/Volt Absorb/Water Absorb to get a easy switch in and possibly free healing off and immunity to their STAB attacks. However the ~50% chance of a Special Attack boost is generally preferable as on most sets it opens up a chance to sweep. If your team has problems with those Pokemon with the aforementioned traits then Trace can work very well.</p>

[Illegal Moves]
<p>Sadly one of its best moves; Tri Attack is illegal at Level 5 but it is worth noting if you play Little Cup Level 100 (it learns it at Level 51) or don't use the Level 5 moveset rule. The same goes for Agility (learnt at Level 12) which would be a nice alternative to Trick Room and Recover (learnt at Level 18) could let a defensive set become viable. Magic Coat (learnt at Level 56) could reflect back Sleep and other status moves. Other notable moves that are not legal at Level 5 are Discharge, Signal Beam and Magnet Rise.</p>

[EVs]
<p>236 EVs maxes out Porygon's Sp. Attack, leftover EVs are put into Defenses. For Trick Room sets you want to have a 0 Speed IV and a - Nature. For the Mixed sweeper 196 maxes out Attack. For the Choice Specs set, should you choose Hidden Power [Ground] you should use an EV spread of 116 Def / 240 SpA / 80 SpD / 36 Spe along with 30 IVs in Special Attack and Special Defence.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Decent stats were it needs them, a excellent ability, great movepool and some degree of unpredictability; Porygon would have the makings of a Little Cup standard if it could just use Tri Attack but even without STAB it is a serious threat. Its other problem is its speed, it needs to set up Trick Room to be much use at sweeping, but once its set up it can be hard to stop it.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Munchlax or Bronzor can stop it (and outspeed in Trick Room) if Download did not boost Special attack, however mixed versions can beat Munchlax. Chinchou does nicely resisting BoltBeam and having fine defences to take even Download boosted attacks.</p>

<p>Trapinch can revenge kill it under Trick Room. Bulky fighting types (or bulky Pokemon in general who don't have a weakness to Ice/Electric/Ghost and have a really strong attack) can often come in while Trick Room is up take a neutral attack and KO with a STAB move but they tend to be 2HKO'd so they can't switch in.</p>

<p>If you don't have any of these just hit it as hard as you can as it sets up, and try to use some strong priority moves on it or stall out Trick Room by smart switching.</p>
 
So will people be sticking to the CAP server or switching over the Smogon server for LC play? I know we can play both, but I'm curious what direction the LC community is leaning.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Don't be so quick to sell out your stakes in CAP, as Doug has said that he plans to implement an LC ladder on CAP. But - for the moment, I think Smogon holds the LC appeal.
 
I was planning on heading to Smogon's, since I don't really play the CAP metagame, and it would mean I'd only need one shoddy window up instead of two.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I think we should mostly move to Smogon, at least for now. The OP will be fully updated quite soon.

But CaP was were we started this metagame so there will probably still be a good few players who will stay there.
 
Mantyke



Code:
Stat--base min- min max max+
HP----45---N/A--21---24--N/A
Att---20---7----8---11---12
Def---50---9---11---14---15
Sp.A--60---10--12---15--16
Sp.D--120--16--18---21--23
Spe---50---9---11---14--15
[SET]

name: Special Wall
move 1: Surf
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Protect / Haze
item: Oran berry
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 236/HP 40/Spatk 196/SpD 36/Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Switch Mantyke into a pesky special sweeper and wall them to oblivion with your amazing Special Defense. Surf is a nice, simple STAB attack and allows Mantyke to deal with some common foes. Ice beam is a fabulous move most waters have at there disposal to cause some damage to grass types. The choice of Hidden Power is all up to preference. Both are useful for hitting water typed foes you'll want to hit. The difference between the two is who do you want to combat. Choosing Hidden Power Electric lets Chinchou and Wooper march in and laugh while choosing Hidden Power Grass makes you powerless to fellow Mantykes. </p>

<p> The last slot is kind of tricky to decide. Protect is very useful to scout for electric attacks that would otherwise fry Mantyke, while haze allows Mantyke to destroy Baton pass chains and stat boosters. </p>

[SET]
name: Swift Swim
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Rain dance
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
item: Oran berry / Damp Rock
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 76/HP 200/Spatk 200/Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Horsea can arguably do this better, but Mantyke has the advantage of being able to take several hits without dying. After you use Rain Dance, you’ll hit 28 speed. This outruns most of the metagame and ties with several noteable scarfers (Murkrow, Diglett, Meowth, Staryu etc). </p>

<p>A Rain Dance, STAB Hydro Pump is ridiculously powerful, but the 80% accuracy makes it unreliable in some situations. Surf is an option over it if Hydro Pump’s accuracy turns you off. The choice of Hidden Power is, again, all up to preference. Hidden Power Electric can be used for the unresisted coverage with Ice beam and allows you to take down enemy Mantykes. Hidden Power Flying gives Mantyke a STAB move that allows unresisted coverage with Hydro Pump. The final option of Hidden Power Grass should be used if you want to do something to Chinchou, who will otherwise laugh at your other moves.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p> Mantyke can survive weak Hidden Power Electrics, so flinging them back at your opponent with Mirror Coat is a nice option. If you’re going to try using Mirror Coat, a Wacan Berry can be used if you want to survive strong Thunderbolts instead. Confuse Ray is an option on the first set if you find either of the last two options unappealing. </p>

<p> For some reason, Mantyke is also given a wide array of physical attacks like Waterfall, Earthquake, and Rockslide. Don’t bother to use these though; Mantyke’s Attack is absolutely pitiful. </p>

[EVs]
<p>As with most defensive pokemon, you should always invest Mantyke’s EVs into HP before a defensive stat. Mantyke’s Special Defense is already large enough</p>

<p>The Evs in the second set are made for Hidden Power Flying. If you’re using Hidden Power Electric, then your EV spread should be 76/HP 200/Spatk 36/Spdef 196/Spe. With this EV spread you also get a bonus point of Special Defense.</p>

[OPINION]
<p> Thanks to Water Absorb, a helpful array of resistances, and the highest Special defense in all of little cup, Mantyke makes a pretty good special wall. The one big flaw with Mantyke is his typing. Just like a human child, If Mantyke sticks his hand into an electrical socket, he’s probably going to die. It really just seems odd that Nintendo decided to give a pokemon with sky high special defense a weakness to one of the most common special moves in the game: Thunderbolt. </p>

<p> Mantyke lies in BL all thanks to Chinchou. In many senses, Mantyke seems to be the weaker of the two choices, but he does have a few pros. Mantyke is completely immune to water type assaults, he takes neutral damage from hidden power grass, he can Haze, and he can switch into an Earthquake in a pinch. Strangely enough, Mantyke and Chinchou both benefit from each others use. If Chinchou usage starts to rise, Hidden Power Grass on Water sweepers will become more common and Mantyke will become a more ideal wall. However, If Mantyke usage starts to rise, the exact opposite occurs and Chinchou becomes more common.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>Chinchou is the bane of Mantyke’s existence. Not only is Chinchou Mantyke's main competition for a team slot, but Chinchou can wall any Mantyke lacking Hidden Power Grass and hit Mantyke with a nasty STAB Thunderbolt.</p>

<p>Elekid doesn’t care about Mantyke in the slightest and sends him to Davy Jones' Locker with his STAB Thunderbolts. Porygon can also switch in with ease, trace Water Absorb and fry Mantyke with Thunderbolt. Staryu and Gastly don’t mind Mantyke’s attempt to wall them in the slightest, thanks to there own powerful Thunderbolts. </p>

<p>If you have usable Special Attack and access to Thunderbolt, you honestly shouldn’t have much trouble with Mantyke. </p>
 
Poliwag needs to move out of Other. A fast Hypnosis with its base 90 speed, Belly Drum, and Water/Normal attacking combo. Water Absorb makes it a good Belly Drummer that can actually re-try after a failed sweep and Hypnosis gives it almost guaranteed set up. Really, BL/OU material.

Or... am I missing something here? The only downfall to it seems to be that it can't run Hypnosis, Belly Drum, Substitute, Waterfall, and Return all in one set.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
right this thread really needs a bump.

Even though it looks like we (The Little Cup players) are inactive; LCF has >2000 posts, >100 members, we have partially complete analysis for 44 Pokemon and finished ones for 32. Several great guides and threat lists, very active RMT and Warstory sections, and a whole lot more.
 
Aron



Code:
Stats Base Min- Min Max Max+
HP----50---N/A--21--24--N/A
Atk---70---11---13--16--17
Def---100--14---16--19--20
SpA---40---9----10--13--14
SpD---40---9----10--13--14
Spd---30---8----9---12--13
[SET]
name: Stealth Rocker
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Rock Slide / Rock Tomb
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Protect / Curse
item: Oran Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Impish
evs: 196 HP / 118 Atk / 196 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Aron makes a nice counter to many potent physical threats. Just switch in with any of Aron’s helpful resistances, set down Stealth Rocks as they switch in there counter, and switch out. Rock Slide can be used for a simple, reliable STAB attack, but Rock Tomb is an interesting option. With Rock Tomb, you’ll have the ability to slow down your opponent’s counter as it switches in. With the fast paced, offensive world of Little Cup, even a slight speed drop can spell a Pokemon’s doom. </p>

<p>Protect can help you scout for Fighting or Ground attacks, and help scout in general. Curse makes Aron a tad harder to take down, but if you really want to tank, try using the Metal Burst set below. </p>

[SET]
name: Choice Aron
move 1: Rock Slide
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Double-Edge
item: Choice Band
ability: Rock Head
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 118 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Aron has a good attack stat, so giving him a Choice Band makes him a sturdy, hard hitting Pokemon. It’s a crying shame Aron doesn’t have access to Stone Edge, so Rock Slide will have to fill in its gap. Iron head is yet another STAB attack for Aron to work with, and Earthquake is a decently powerful attack for Aron. Double-Edge is mostly filler, but it’s still useful for hitting Baltoy and Water types for decent damage. </p>

[SET]
name: Metal Burst
move 1: Metal Burst
move 2: Curse / Protect
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Rock Slide
item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
ability: Sturdy
nature: Relaxed
evs: 196 HP / 118 Atk / 196 Def
ivs: 0 Spe

<p>Metal Burst will counter back any attack thrown at Aron, but will only work if Aron is slower than the opponent. Even though Aron is absurdly slow already, this set lowers your speed further with Curse almost guaranteeing Aron will move last. Thanks to the helpful attack boost, you might have a chance at sweeping with Aron, while the defense boost helps you counter stronger attacks. Rock Slide is given as the only option on this set since lowering your opponents speed with Rock Tomb is very counter productive. </p>

<p>If you want to take a single powerful attack right off the bat with Aron, you can opt for a Focus Sash over an Oran Berry. Using Aron in this fashion though doesn’t give you as good an opportunity to tank with Curse, so Protect should be used instead. </p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Unlike Aggron, Aron has a very small move pool to work with. Roar can work on the first set if you need something to pseudo-haze on your team. On the Choice Band set, Shadow Claw or Dragon Rush could be used over Double-Edge if you’d like to target certain Pokemon. </p>

<p>You can attempt giving Aron Rock Polish and have a go at sweeping, but Aron’s STABs are somewhat underpowered to sweep with. Not to mention that Pokemon like Anorith and Rhyhorn can arguably sweep with Rock Polish more efficiently. </p>

<p>If too many Hidden Power Fighting Murkrows start popping up your alley, you can trade off Aron's Oran Berry for a Chople Berry. Shuca Berries can be used in that same fashion if you start running into random Pokemon with Hidden Power Ground. <p>

[EVs]
<p>When EVing Aron, always capitalize on HP and Defense, and then add the rest into Attack. Remember to always have a -Speed nature and no speed IVs when using Metal Burst. </p>

[OPINION]
<p>Aron is a fine Pokemon to take physical assaults, but his biggest flaw lies in his mixed bag typing. On one end, Aron has a high defensive stat and a wide array of useful resistances. On the other end though, his Steel / Rock typing gives him a nasty 4x weakness to Earthquake, one of the most common moves in the game. He can endure physical hits with ease, but letting Aron sit out on a Pokemon that might have a ground or fighting attack is a death wish. </p>

<p>That said, Aron can really abuse the positive aspects of his typing well. Unlike Bronzor he resists dark and makes a fantastic counter to Meowth, Aipom, Dodou, Tailow, and Murkrow. Just try to make sure your opponent’s Pokemon doesn’t have a Fighting or Ground move and Aron can drive them nuts. </p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>Bronzor and Baltoy are both excellent counters to Aron. Not only do both have great defense and a resistance to most of Aron’s attacks, but they can set up their own layer of Stealth Rocks and kill you with Earthquake. Gligar works in almost the exact same way, but he has the option of boosting his stats before he slaughters Aron with a powerful STAB Earthquake. Onix is also a decent counter to Aron, but repeated Earthquakes from Aron while Onix switches in might wear him down. </p>

<p>Diglett can come into Aron for a revenge kill and OHKO Aron with ease. Cubone’s super powered Earthquakes also will make short work of Aron. Cranidos also has sky-high attack to crush Aron into a crumpled can, but like Diglett, he can only come in for a revenge kill. </p>

<p>Ground types aren’t the only things that stand in Aron’s way. Machop, Mankey and Riolu all have a field day smashing Aron to bits with there STAB fighting attacks. Croagunk can do the same and run Vacuum Wave to prey on Aron’s awful Special Defense, but he won’t enjoy taking an Earthquake from Aron. </p>

<p>To OHKO a 24 / 20 Aron with an unSTAB Earthquake, you’ll need an attack stat of at least 14. This really isn’t that hard of an attack stat to reach for physical sweepers, so if you have access to a Fighting or Ground type moves (or a decent special stat to harness Hidden Power), Aron really shouldn’t be much of a problem. </p>
 




[SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Seed Bomb / Wood Hammer
move 4: Hidden Power [Fire] / Blizzard / Return
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry / Focus Sash
nature: Hasty
evs: 184 Atk / 104 SpA / 200 Spe
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Snover is one of the few lucky pokemon in Little Cup who have access to a strong boosting move and a STAB priority move. As such, after a Swords Dance, your main method of attack will be Ice Shard which has the advantage of bypassing Snover's pitiful speed stat of 14 and is supplemented by Seed Bomb and Wood Hammer which provide harder-hitting STAB moves to take down sturdier opponents. Wood Hammer is the more powerful option and but its recoil combined with Life Orb recoil (and Snover's unfortunate Stealth Rock weakness) means that Seed Bomb represents the more reliable choice.</p>

<p>In the last slot, a Life Orbed Hidden Power [Fire] will 2HKO Bronzor, thanks to the Hail, as long as Bronzor does not carry an Oran Berry. Even so, if Snover does just less than 50% damage to Bronzor, the Hail damage will take Bronzor down below 50% health without the Oran Berry activating and so Snover still has a chance of 2HKOing even with the Oran Berry. Blizzard and Return are perhaps the lesser choices, Blizzard is good for hitting hard off the bat and has the same power as a twice Swords Danced Ice Shard. Return unlike the other two options, stops you being walled completely by Fire-types and somewhat remedies Ice Shard's low base power.</p>

<p>As for the choice of item, Life Orb is required to 2HKO Bronzor with Hidden Power [Fire] and gives a nice kick to your attacks. Oran Berry or Focus Sash gives Snover the opportunity to get in another Swords Dance.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Choice
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Water Pulse
move 4: Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 116 HP / 184 SpA / 200 Spe
ivs:

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Choice Scarf, Snover reaches 21 speed and outspeeds any non-Scarfed pokemon. A 100% accurate Blizzard is your main form of attack, and deals large damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Energy Ball is secondary STAB, with Water Pulse a welcome addition for Fire-types. Hidden Power [Fire] is a good option if you plump for Choice Specs as you can deal with Bronzor effectively, whilst Hidden Power [Fighting] gives you a chance to 2HKO Munchlax who otherwise walls this set.</p>

[SET]
name: Staller
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Protect
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Leech Seed / GrassWhistle
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 196 HP / 100 Atk / 196 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Stalling movesets in general, do not work too well in Little Cup, but Snover's omnipresent Hail gives it an advantage over other competitors. Snover can alternate between Protect and Substitute and avoid taking damage from the opponent's attacks. This forces the opponent to take Hail damage and Snover's Ice Shard will allow it to get an attack in first, finishing off a weakened opponent.

<p>Leech Seed is better when Snover is facing slower opponents and allows it to have a secondary measure of healing, whereas Grasswhistle can put a faster pokemon on the switch, to Sleep, allowing you to safely get up a Substitute and forcing the opponent to take more Hail damage in breaking the Substitute and of course, whilst asleep. The 55% accuracy though, is a disappointment, as is Snover's speed stat of 14.</p>


[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Giga Drain can give Snover a form of healing, but in most cases the extra power from Energy Ball is more beneficial. Shadow Ball can be used on the Choice Specs / Scarf set to hit Ghost and Psychic-types, but a neutral Blizzard will dispose of most of these easily unless you are facing a Thick Fat Spoink. Light Screen can be used to support your team.</p>

[EVS]
<p>For the Swords Dancer set, you will want to max out Attack and Speed, which needs 180 EVs and 196 EVs respectively, and 4 EVs both in each stats should you use Hidden Power [Fire]. The leftovers can be used in Special Attack if using Hidden Power [Fire], with the 30 IV meaning that 104 increases the stat by 2.</p>
<p>For the Choice Specs / Scarf set, 184 EVs and 200 EVs maximise Special Attack and Speed respectively even with 30 IVs in both stat, should you be using Hidden Power. 116 HP EVs boost its HP stat by two and increases its survivability.</p>
<p> For the Stall set, both Speed and HP are maxed out, with takes up 196 EVs each. 100 Attack EVs boost the Attack stat by 2 to make Ice Shard more threatening.</p>

[OPINION]
<p>Snover's most useful purpose is perhaps in aiding its team with the residual damage from Hail, as well as being able to mess with the strategy of weather teams. That said, Snover makes a useful Choice Scarfer and a decent sweeper with Swords Dance. It is limited in this environment by its low speed, with maxes out at 14, with Ice Shard only going so far to fix this.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>Bronzor is a good general counter, only fearing an item-boosted Hidden Power [Fire]. Munchlax will wall Special sets, only worrying about a Choice Specs Hidden Power [Fighting]. Fire-types in general are good counters, resisting both STABs of Snover and OHKOing with any Fire attack. In particular, Growlithe with Intimidate makes a great counter to the Physical sets. Shieldon is a good counter, resisting Blizzard and Ice Shard and having the choice of carrying Flamethrower to OHKO Snover. Any pokemon, that is faster than Snover and can handle a boosted Ice Shard will have a decent chance of defeating the Swords Dancer, with Snover having many weaknesses. Choice Item sets, as usual, can be countered with good prediction, and with Stealth Rock set down early, it cannot repeatedly switch in.</p>
 


Diglett Little Cup Analysis

Code:
Stat   Base Min-  Min    Max    Max+
HP-----10--N/A--17--20--N/A
Att----55--10---12--15--16
Def----25---8----9--12--13
Sp.A---35---9---10--13--14
Sp.D---45---9---11--14--15
Spe----95--14---16--19--20
[SET]
name: Revenge Killer of Choice
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Aerial Ace
move 4: Rock Slide / Pursuit
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
ability: Arena Trap
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
ivs:

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Diglett's high base 95 Speed, coupled with Arena Trap, is what makes it one of the premier revenge-killers in Little Cup. Earthquake provides a powerful STAB move which will dent anything that doesn't resist it, regardless of the Choice Band boost. Sucker Punch allows you to pick off weakened foes, and is useful against slower pokemon that try to use priority-moves. Aerial Ace is included for its ability to hit both Grass and Bug types who resist Ground. In the last slot, Rock Slide will hit Flying-types whereas Pursuit will kill Misdreavus and Gastly that attempt to flee from the threat of Sucker Punch.</p>

<p>The choice of item (no pun intended) is purely up to preference. Diglett is already one of the fastest pokemon in Little Cup and the Choice Band boost allows it to OHKO many more pokemon with Earthquake. Choice Scarf, however, is a better option should you be wary of threats such as Dragon Dance Dratini and Rock Polish Rhyhorn as you can outspeed the aforementioned pokemon even with an Adamant nature with a Choice Scarf equipped.</p>

[SET]
name: Late Game Sweeper
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Aerial Ace
move 4: Rock Slide
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Arena Trap
nature: Jolly
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
ivs:

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Look familiar? The main advantage of using a Life Orb set, is the ability to change attacks and so make Diglett less prone to the likes of Murkrow after using Earthquake. With the coverage provided by these four moves and taking into consideration its high speed, Diglett can actually mount a late-game clean up of an opponent's weakened team, with a Life Orbed Earthquake doing fatal or near fatal damage to anything that doesn't resist it.</p>

<p>Focus Sash can be used to get an extra kill in a scenario where an opponent switches in a pokemon that is immune to Earthquake, thinking that it has a Choice item, and then is KOed by another of Diglett's moves.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Diglett's movepool is shallow but of note, Shadow Claw provides a reliable move to hit levitating Ghosts that do not choose to switch out. Stealth Rock is also another option, but Diglett is best off attacking with its frail defences. It also does get a STAB special move in Earth Power but Earthquake has higher base power and runs off the higher of his attacking stats. A Choice Specs set could be a viable option with Diglett learning Sludge Bomb and AncientPower to go with Earth Power. A Hidden Power could also be used on such a set. Diglett's Special Attack is often overlooked but its max Special Attack is only two points lower than that of its Attack.</p>

[EVS]
<p>With its frail defences, just max out Diglett's Attack and Speed, which both need 236 EVs to achieve this effect. The remaining 36 EVs can raise Diglett's HP by one stat point.</p>

[OPINION]
<p>Diglett is not a direct threat to teams as such, but one must be wary to construct a team that is not overly vulnerable to Diglett. Even so, common pokemon such as Rhyhorn, Chinchou, Magmemite, Magby, Houndour and Elekid to name a few, are prone to being easily trapped and killed by Diglett and this list expands when pokemon are weakened. With its high Speed, STAB Earthquake and access to Sucker Punch, Diglett makes a fine revenge-killer.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>It is hard to define a Diglett counter, as if a pokemon is trapped by Arena Trap, you cannot switch in another pokemon. With that said, Bronzor shakes off anything that Diglett has to throw at it, as does Gligar with both pokemon being immune to Earthquake. A faster Diglett can come in and OHKO you if you are without Choice Scarf or use an Adamant nature and Trapinch can do a similar thing with Quick Attack if Diglett is weakened. Finally, Diglett is vulnerable to Pursuiters should it have a Choice Item, Murkrow is a prime example, with its immunity to Ground.</p>
 
I haven't been in the LC metagame for a long time, but is there a reason why sneasel isn't there? Its a pre-evo and can be obtained via egg. Is it because it isn't as cute as the others? Is cuteness a factor in entering the LC Metagame?
 

Seven Deadly Sins

~hallelujah~
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It's because 115 Base Speed + 85 Base Attack + Swords Dance + STAB Ice Shard + Pursuit is broken as hell. Ubers are determined so on a case-by-case basis, and Sneasel has proven itself broken.
 
It's because 115 Base Speed + 85 Base Attack + Swords Dance + STAB Ice Shard + Pursuit is broken as hell. Ubers are determined so on a case-by-case basis, and Sneasel has proven itself broken.
I know its strong compared to the others, I'm asking why it isn't on the list. Shouldn't it be paired up with tangela in UBERs? Or is my Find function and my eyes not working too?
 
Banned Pokemon:
The "Uber Tier" Of Little Cup.

Scyther
Reason: Sword Dance, Agility great Attack/Speed, Technician Quick Attack and a nice movepool make it near unstoppable. It has not been tested yet due to this post, it may be moved to under testing at some future time.
Yanma
Reason: Speed Boost. It sweeps with ease in a metagame so focused on speed. Hypnosis for those it can't 1KO.
Sneasel
Reason:
High Attack and Speed, its STAB Ice Shard+Sword Dance 1KOs most Scarfers that try to revenge kill it.
Meditite
Reason: VERY high attack and high powered STAB moves (so high it can 1KO Bronzor without any boosts using a neutral STAB attack) and decent speed (scarf can give it 24 speed so not easy to revenge kill).
Tangela
Reason: Great Def and Sp.A, the Sunny Day set is near unstoppable. Can sweep teams with ease. The wall set is not broken, but we can't ban movesets.
Clamperl (only with Deepseatooth):
Reason:
A massive 36 Sp.A and decent defenses, if your team can pass speed or set up Trick Room tis thing will take down a few Pokemon. It may be retested and possibly unbanned at some stage.
Why not actually Ctrl + F Sneasel? Tangela is listed at top because an analysis was actually done for tangela. Sneasel is mentioned in ban list though :/
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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mm... This thread had been dead for some time... almost all the links on the first page are out of date...
Anyway on the LCF have been steadily working through the analysis making new guides and all that stuff. We also started a LC Tutor Apprentice Program for OU players who wish to learn our metagame (round 2 sign ups will start soon), we've got a couple of tournaments running, hope to get a Ladder on the CaP server soon, are just sorting out usage stats, and much more.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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There is now a Little Cup ladder on DJD's server so that is for now the official home of LC, and will be the best place to look for battles.

The use of > Lv.5 Pokemon on the LC ladder is a ban able offense, if you discover you have put them in your team and are in a battle you MUST quit.

Thank you Doug for making this possible!
 
Just posting to bump this up.

And that will Murkrow still be OU in LC? Its hellishly hard to counter. It's like Garchomp in LC. Takes some sacrificing Pokemons to counter it.
 
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