+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 258-304 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKOI think outspeeding timid mega sceptile is all you need imo, mega zam isn't really common and neither is mega aero, I can't think of any important base 130s right now and maybe outspeeding +1 adamant mega gyara is important but I think it can definitely tank a hit.
See above.You're never going to outspeed Timid Sceptile (145 base speed), as it tends to speed creep down to be just faster than Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny. Mega Aero and Mega Zam are not common, but they are relevant (A- and B+ in the viability thread right now). Again, it may not all be useful all the time, just worth noting if you want to clean up dead EVs. I don't really see a reason to run 252 Jolly speed unless you want to speed tie Manectric, Zam and Aero are the next real possible speed tier out there. If Lopunny is valuable to your team (and possibly at -1), I'm going to switch it to my Mega Mane check anyway.
I've experimented, admittedly, maybe too much with mLop, and I've got agree with you here. Of all the sets this has single handedly been the best of all of them.Okay moving on then... what do you guys think the best set is at this point? I haven't gotten to any testing yet, but I'm leaning towards HJK/Return/Ice Punch/Healing wish.
I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.
So heres the set that I've been running. Just hit 1400 on Oras easily and I'm climbing fast.
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
I really believe that Adamant > Jolly because you are giving away so much power by going jolly. The reasoning behind this is that there is so many fast mons running around with scarf that you don't need Jolly since you are going to get outsped anyways. If you need something that fast run scarf ninja or noivern anyways. The real reason to run Adamant is the sheer power of HJK. Baton Pass is purely for momentum and scouting. It also has that fast baton pass > Mega.
Heres some calcs
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(You just have to play mind games with protect. Like Ice Punch then HJK)
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-201 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Well I've seen well respected pokemon players run scarf ninja like AIM and chimpact. You won't need return because you can let your team take care of that coverage. Baton Pass straight to ninja or to a counter for fairies/psychics.I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.
Yeah in this state of the metagame, ScarfNinja isn't dreadful, because it's one of the few consistent revenege killers to MegaMence. It loses out on a lot of power, and shouldn't be used unless your team is weak to mmence, but since that's a really state to be in now, scarf ninja can be a pretty easy remedy.I think you should probably run return somewhere on there because if he has a fairy or psychic on his team, HJK won't hit very hard, and ice punch isn't that good on a neutral hit and return hits lots of stuff for good neutral damage. Also btw scarf greninja isn't viable at all because it needs coverage, and it's already really fast.
Those are only used for certain purposes, like taking out scarf lando-t, and for surprise purpose. It could be used to take out mmence, but that's about it. Most teams should have a way of beating mence anyways, and honestly, it's going to be banned.Well I've seen well respected pokemon players run scarf ninja like AIM and chimpact. You won't need return because you can let your team take care of that coverage. Baton Pass straight to ninja or to a counter for fairies/psychics.
Primarily because of Goth and to some extent Wobb (worse if it is Wobb), other than that there is no particular reason just that the meta is obsessed with trapping and MLop happens to be vulnerable to it. No doubt there are better options but it is viable if only to deal with trappers.Here's the thing about this Lopunny set. . .
If you're going to run BP, you want it on one of two things, a poke that has set up to obscene levels ready to pass it to a sweeper, or to get a switch out into a favorable match up. The problem with that is, mLopunny is far too fast for that to work out correctly. If you go for BP, you outspeed, and your switch in gets rocked by an attack. Yea, it may be resisted, but it's damage nonetheless, and that's IF they don't predict you to go for the switch. mLop should be used to hit hard as shit, and take off. Here's the real problem though. that's what switching does anyway, so why waste a moveslot for it?
Baton Pass on Lopunny is like Volt Switch on Mega Manectric. When both parties consider switching, it's essentially a 50/50 for both sides. Because Baton Pass does not have increased priority, unlike switching, it allows you to gain momentum. Say you have Mega Lopunny and your opponent has Heatran. You have Celebi and Conk in reserve and your opponent has Slowbro. Instead of trying to predict what your opponent is going to send in, you use Baton Pass. If the opponent switches to Slowbro (and you know if they will or not), you BP to Celebi. If they stay with Heatran, anticipating the switch to Celebi, you send in Conk. You now hold virtually all the momentum. This scenario also applys to VoltTurn in general, and why it's so valuable. For something with an unresisted STAB combo, it can more than afford to luxury of using BP to predict switches.Here's the thing about this Lopunny set. . .
If you're going to run BP, you want it on one of two things, a poke that has set up to obscene levels ready to pass it to a sweeper, or to get a switch out into a favorable match up. The problem with that is, mLopunny is far too fast for that to work out correctly. If you go for BP, you outspeed, and your switch in gets rocked by an attack. Yea, it may be resisted, but it's damage nonetheless, and that's IF they don't predict you to go for the switch. mLop should be used to hit hard as shit, and take off. Here's the real problem though. that's what switching does anyway, so why waste a moveslot for it?
That's true I suppose. I'm not quite one for going about using BP. Didn't think of it in that way. However, to run it over Return I must disagree with. When you have 4 slots, and 2 of which are pretty much free, you don't get rid of one of the two almost must haves this thing should be carrying. Honestly, I don't think it's got as much weight as manectric does simply because it's able to also intimidate opponents forcing switches as it comes in. With Lopunny, it's a bit more situational as to when you'll be clicking BP. There are however two advantages to carrying BP, as yourself and Machi pointed out. But at the expense of a base 153 STAB just isn't worth it to me. Especially since you can only carry 1 BP user on any given team at a time. I just can't see it as a BP user.Baton Pass on Lopunny is like Volt Switch on Mega Manectric. When both parties consider switching, it's essentially a 50/50 for both sides. Because Baton Pass does not have increased priority, unlike switching, it allows you to gain momentum. Say you have Mega Lopunny and your opponent has Heatran. You have Celebi and Conk in reserve and your opponent has Slowbro. Instead of trying to predict what your opponent is going to send in, you use Baton Pass. If the opponent switches to Slowbro (and you know if they will or not), you BP to Celebi. If they stay with Heatran, anticipating the switch to Celebi, you send in Conk. You now hold virtually all the momentum. This scenario also applys to VoltTurn in general, and why it's so valuable. For something with an unresisted STAB combo, it can more than afford to luxury of using BP to predict switches.
Little late to the party here, but never run Adamant. Losing out to Greninja is huge and being unable to revenge Mega Manectric and +1 Mega Gyarados really sucks in general.
So heres the set that I've been running. Just hit 1400 on Oras easily and I'm climbing fast.
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
I really believe that Adamant > Jolly because you are giving away so much power by going jolly. The reasoning behind this is that there is so many fast mons running around with scarf that you don't need Jolly since you are going to get outsped anyways. If you need something that fast run scarf ninja or noivern anyways. The real reason to run Adamant is the sheer power of HJK. Baton Pass is purely for momentum and scouting. It also has that fast baton pass > Mega.
Heres some calcs
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(You just have to play mind games with protect. Like Ice Punch then HJK)
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-201 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-342 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Well it is primarily important where you simply just need to clean and not risk the 10% miss and recoil that HJK has as well as being your best ways to dent incoming Fairy/Psychic, generally against Latios. So yeah it is more or less mandatory if only to hit relevant threats neutrally. BP I would honestly not run it if Goth wasn't so damned prolific since Lando-T Indimidates are what you are more likely to pass.Agent Gibbs put it perfectly. Ice Punch is way too weak even against 2x super effective, and against a neutral target, high jump kick hits harder. Return has to be used, because dual STABs is just way too good considering that they're unresisted.