Malamar (QC 1/3)

[darkie]

Overview
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contrary superpower is a nice niche but below average stats and poor defensive and offensive typing keep it from making a big splash in OU
shallow movepool
needs a lot of team support


Assault Vest
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name: Assault Vest Booster
move 1: Superpower
move 2: Night Slash
move 3: Psycho Cut
move 4: Rock Slide
ability: Contrary
item: Assault Vest
nature: Adamant
evs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spe

Moves
========
- standard Malamar move trifecta of Superpower / Night Slash / Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide is Malamar's next best physical attack and it can be very useful to combat threats like togekiss, who normally hard counters Malamar:
252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 29-35 (7.7 - 9.3%)
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 170-204 (46.9 - 56.3%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 222-262 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- after getting an attack boost on the switch, Malamar can outspeed and 2HKO Togekiss with Rock Slide with Togekiss fails to OHKO with Dazzling Gleam.
- similarly, Malamar can also tank Moonblast from Florges and Pixilated Hyper Voice Sylveon thanks to the Assault Vest and deal enough damage with a boosted neutral Psycho Cut to 2HKO.

Set Details
========
- 60 speed lets malamar beat uninvested base 80s
- attack is maxed for maximum damage output
- 196 EVs remain but putting them all into HP results in an even HP stat

Usage Tips
========
- with assault vest, many of malamar's usual counters are lessened in their effectiveness, allowing Malamar to get in an extra Superpower boost or an extra attack.
- physical based counters are still just as effective, especially if they switch in one something besides Superpower
- also be warned of phazers. this set is particularly vulnerable due to a lack of Taunt.
- similarly, this set is also vulnerable to being statused

Team Options
========
- wish support is useful for malamar to be able to take multiple hits.
- malamar also likes sticky web and/or paralysis support.
- this set can help break down a lot of slower tanks and walls, meaning this malamar pairs well with faster sweepers
- for instance: Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X.
- a lot of malamar's counters are physical defensively oriented flying types, meaning a mixed Kyurem-B is a good teammate option to help break those walls down.


Rest Talk
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move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Night Slash / Payback
ability: Contrary
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD

Moves
========
- relatively straight forward
- rest and sleep talk help malamar's survivability
- night slash and superpower provide good coverage except for fairies
- payback is less consistent but has the potential to be more powerful than night slash if malamar moves second

Set Details
========
- given EVs make Malamar quite bulky and hits hard after a Superpower or 2
- alternative EVs for a more offensive set are: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpDef, Adamant

- if you are using payback, it might be useful to use a Sassy nature and 0 Speed IVs to ensure Payback will go last most often.


Usage Tips
========
- even more vulnerable to fairies without a move to even damage them for neutral
- good status taker because of rest.
- try not to let it take any special hits
- beware of superpower's limited pp but note that sleep talk will not use up superpower's pp

Team Options
========
- since this set is completely walled by fairies, taking those fairies out is of the utmost importance if you want to use it!
- fire types make good teammates because the resist both bug and fairy.
- heatran in particular is a good choice because it is pretty bulky on the special side so it doesn't mind taking those hits either.
- rotom-heat also works pretty well. Both of these Pokemon also threaten the Bug/Steels: Scizor and Rotom.
- poison types also resist fire and bug, which makes tentacruel also a good choice to pair with malamar. tentacruel also threatens fairies with STAB poison attacks and with Liquid Ooze, it even covers Volcarona (who would normally hurt water-types with giga drain).
- mega venusaur is a similar option who can take special hits directed towards malamar and threaten fairies with STAB sludge bomb.
-Gengar with Sludge Bomb can take those fairies out but it's frailty means you probably won't be able to switch directly from Malamar to Gengar.
- steel-types will do the same thing. good choices are lucario and scizor, mega and non-mega for each, because they can kill fairies with STAB Technician or Adaptability Bullet Punch or Adaptability Flash Cannon. Scizor is easier to switch into from Malamar thanks to its overall bulkiness while Lucario (esp Mega) more easily dismisses opposing fairies.
- Rest Talk Malamar makes a good status absorber, making him a good option if the rest of the team particularly hates status.
- even with the investment, Malamar is not particularly bulky, meaning


Support Booster
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name: Support Booster
move 1: Superpower
move 2: Night Slash
move 3: Psycho Cut
move 4: Taunt / Rest
ability: Contrary
item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

Moves
========
- superpower is main attack to get boosts
- night slash provides stab and coverage (although neutral, superpower is stronger)
- psycho cut hits fairies and poisons like venusaur
- taunt prevents status and phazing which is important for a boosting pokemon like malamar while rest + chesto gives it somewhat reliable healing.
- other situation moves for the last set include: topsy turvy, hypnosis, light screen.

Set Details
========
- 20 speed lets malamar beat uninvested base 75s (mainly florges) while maxing attack and putting the rest in hp to even out defenses

Usage Tips
========
- take care of fairies and special attackers first
- malamar makes a good aegislash counter (if it doesn't have shadow ball) because of contrary working against king's shield and especially against SD sets if you use Topsy Turvy in the last slot.

Team Options
========
- the same kind of pokemon help out malamar: fire, poison, and steel types with strong STAB attacks such as Heatran, Rotom-H, Tentacruel, Mega Venusaur, Scizor.
- offensively, Malamar goes well with teammates who can take out Malamar's Flying-type counters; Pokemon such as Mixed Aegislash, Kyurem-B, NP Mega Lucario will work well.
- to be fair, Malamar kind of needs all the help it can get, such as sticky web to help out its poor speed.



Other Options
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- suction cups can be used with calm mind, but malamar has terrible special stats.
- hypnosis.
- scarf with switcheroo could work



Checks & Counters
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- might be easier to list what doesn't counter malamar in OU
- rotom can switch on any attack, outspeed and burn, and do 45%+ with hydro pump
- azumarill
- togekiss, sylveon, florges on sets besides the AV version
- scizor
- landorus, zapdos is a great counter, especially if it carries u-turn
- mandibuzz hard counters it
- gliscor easily beats non rest talk versions
- dragonite can easily come in and then dd/roost up and ko with literally any move it uses
- skarmory takes little damage and whirlwinds out tauntless malamars. note that without whirlwind, malamar will (eventually) win.
- landorus/-t but watch out because intimidate makes malamar stronger.
- volcorona can come in on any attack (though it resists superpower so that is ideal) and easily OHKO with Bug Buzz which will even go through substitute
- sableye can come in, prankster will-o-wisp and then use its own superpower boosts against it. sableye is also immune to both fighting and psychic, making it extremely easy to switch in.
- salamence can come in on superpower and then 2hko with outrage, but be warned that intimidate will hurt salamence in this case because +2 Psycho Cut or Night Slash will finish the job.

- anything faster with a super effective or strong attack is an effective check:
- genesect
- talonflame, greninja with u-turn
- lucario can revenge kill without a superpower boost
- deoxys-s with u-turn
- terrakion with x-scissor can revenge if malamar is slightly weakened and does not have more than 1 superpower defense boost
- fast special attackers like jolteon and keldeo can revenge non-AV versions

 

[alexwolf]

I said this again Darkie, but Topsy Turvy is very situational and AC material at best. Using a move just for one Pokemon that is not even that hard to check is too much. Rest + Chesto Berry is a much better alternative to Taunt. Also, isn't Sub a bit redundant when you have Taunt or Rest + Chesto? Or at least in the place you put it. Malamar needs 3 attacks no matter what, so if you are going to put Sub somewhere put it on the last slot, though i still think that Taunt or Rest are better options.

 

[darkie]

hmmm i'll keep that in mind.

 

[trc]

I know it may seem a waste of team slot, but so many teams have set up sweeper. If either you invest enough bulk in Malamar to survive certain +1 threats or give it a focus sash, It could be used as a last-ditch attempt to stop any set up sweeper before they stop you. With a sash it stops aegislash, ddnite, ddgyara, cm Jirachi, cm Latias if they bother your team.

I know it's situational as it requires an intact sash but it can really help if your team is particularly weak to a certain threat.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I think Chesto Berry + Rest is a pretty cool option on the main set. I've used it before myself, it's gotten me to get some extra boosts in even after someone thought it was over because they poisoned/burned me. Figure it could be worth a mention at least since that 4th moveslot is pretty flexible imo, especially since Malamar despises status as with most setup sweepers. Also helps its recovery issue though it's not passive like with Leftovers

 

[ginganinja]

IDK I don't exactly mind Topsy Turvy being slashed, so long as its a lesser option.

-Move Substitute to 4th slash, in my experience you want all the coverage you can get for the first set
-Mention Chesto Rest somewhere (AC?) since its your best bet at getting semi decent recovery with your boosting set
-Link Rock Slide with the AV comment as the extra attack you run.

 

[darkie]

yea i'll definitely add chesto rest as an option for the first set and move substitute.

 

[PK Gaming]

Maybe mention in the Set Details section that with physical defense investment + Substitute, it can set up on weaker physical attackers and wreck shop?

Otherwise:

QC APPROVED (1/3)

 

[alexwolf]

hmmm i'll keep that in mind.

It's not a suggestion. Topsy Turvy is too niche to be on the main set, move it to AC please, and have Taunt / Rest as the last slot, while having the 3 attacking moves alone in each slot.

You still haven't explained why Sub deserves to be on the main set btw. And don't tell me the classic stuff, such as eases prediction, because Malamar is too weak without any boosts and cannot take advantage well of the 1 free attack that Sub provides on a forced switch. You are much better of boosting with Superpower. Taunt stops harmful status moves and phazing, while Rest + Chesto gives status negation and one turn full healing, both of which are way more useful than Sub.

Finally, max HP > max SpD on all Pokemon whose HP and SpD stats are close. Having slightly better special bulk is not worth losing all that physical bulk, unless your name is Conkeldurr, where you gain a lot more special bulk by maxing SpD instead of HP.

 

[darkie]

topsy turvy is used for aegislash but it is useful against all boosters to act as pseudo-pseudo hazing.


substitute provides protection against crits, since that is the number one fear of anything that boosts its defenses. with superpower boosting its defenses, substitute allows malamar to pull off more superpowers in the rare chance of a crit, because you limit the damage taken to only 25% and with leftovers, you can make a new substitute soon anyway.


I don't agree with HP over SpD. After a single Superpower, Malamar's defense is boosted anyway so it is in Malamar's best interest to have SpD boosted before hand.

 

[alexwolf]

topsy turvy is used for aegislash but it is useful against all boosters to act as pseudo-pseudo hazing.


substitute provides protection against crits, since that is the number one fear of anything that boosts its defenses. with superpower boosting its defenses, substitute allows malamar to pull off more superpowers in the rare chance of a crit, because you limit the damage taken to only 25% and with leftovers, you can make a new substitute soon anyway.


I don't agree with HP over SpD. After a single Superpower, Malamar's defense is boosted anyway so it is in Malamar's best interest to have SpD boosted before hand.

Most boosters are faster than Malamar and can OHKO him after a boost. The only slower that i can think of, other than Aegislash, is Clefable which murders Malamar with Moonblast. And it's not even like Malamar can switch easily into Aegislash, as it's easily 2HKOed by mixed variants with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak.

I know what Sub does, but the main reasons to use it are:

1. To block status
2. To punish switches and ease prediction

Taunt already deals with status while also prevnting phazing, healing, and boosting, while Malamar is too weak to punish switches without setting up most of the time.

Finally, max HP > max SpD for reasons i already explained, and i don't even get why you argue otherwise. It has been common knowledge since forever, that maxing HP is better than maxing defensive stats on Pokemon that have similar HP and Def / SpD values.

This is how the set should be:

Superpower Booster
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name: Superpower Booster
move 1: Superpower
move 2: Night Slash
move 3: Psycho Cut
move 4: Taunt / Rest
ability: Contrary
item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

I don't really care about the move order on the last slot so it can go either way. Topsy Turvy goes to AC.

 

[darkie]

I don't agree with the EVs but I will do it.

 

[Eeyore]

What I've really wondered is a defensive only variant of Malamar. Showdown suggests 252 Attack and 4 Def, but why not switch them?
Malamar is a really weak special defensive Pokemon, and really nothing is going to fix that. Instead, what is the usage of the same rest/talk set as before, but realizing special attacks will always be the bane of Malamar's existance, and treat it like a pokemon like Mamoswine-- as a physical tank.

Malamar @ Leftovers/Sitrus Berry/Custap Berry
Contrary
Ev: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Att
Impish Nature
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Night Slash


This set utilizes that Malamar can be an unstoppable wall of physical power-- and with decent coverage between Night Slash and Superpower, it has a niche of its own. I specifically use mine as a Physical Aegislash counter. If it is missing Shadow Ball, I beat it 9/10 times. It's really good as a pokemon to come in situationally when you have a solid core of 3, and 2 other synergistic Pokemon. For example=> Ferrothorn/Jellicent as a wall, and Talonflame/Mega-Manectric (or Rotom-Wash)/Excadrill. Add Malamar to the team and it's a good balance of speed and power, and pivoting. While the 6th spot looks more like a disadvantage, it becomes a situational check, or even a status absorber/death fodder. That is the niche I find is best for Malamar, especially in a rest/talk set. It is not a competative-sweeper, nor a wall. It has a small place where it shines, and these are the corners I've found work really well for it.

 

[Colonel M]

Custap is currently illegal. Just saying.

 

[Eeyore]

Custap is currently illegal. Just saying.

Then scratch the Custap! I forgot completely!

 

[darkie]

alexwolf

I wanted to discuss an EV spread with you re: the attacking set with Assault Vest (or 4 attacking moves but mostly for Assault Vest) -- Adamant 196 HP / 252 Attack / 60 Speed

This allows Malamar outspeed investment-less base 80s (basically Goodra and Togekiss) as well as Heatran:

Goodra:
252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 153-180 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 227-268 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Malamar: 262-310 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 175-207 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

Basically this just stops Goodra from revenge killing if it's sufficiently weakened (which will happen eventually because it has no healing).

On Heatran:
252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 216-256 (55.9 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 324-382 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Malamar: 138-163 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 93-109 (25.6 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Same case here. Obviously this only works on support Heatran but same thing, it stops the revenge kill.

Togekiss is Malamar's worst enemy:
252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 29-35 (7.7 - 9.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Malamar: 258-306 (71.2 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 170-204 (46.9 - 56.3%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 222-262 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Superpower Boost + Rock Slide + SR up, Malamar can conceivably beat defensive Togekiss. Assault Vest obviously helps it tank the Fairy attack in this case, but 196 HP can still survive a defensive Togekiss's Dazzling Gleam somehow.

Mega Venusaur is also a defensive behemoth at base 80 uninvested who might come in due to resisting Superpower:

252+ Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 35-42 (9.6 - 11.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock

But is also a Pokemon who can't do enough much back to Malamar (especially with an assault vest):

4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 196 HP / 4 SpD Malamar: 145-172 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 196 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 97-115 (26.7 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

And then:
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 186-222 (51 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock





The only problem might be this:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 316-372 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 212-250 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 316-372 (87.2 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. +1 196 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 212-250 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Physical Mega Luke can revenge kill (with 18.8% reliability) if Malamar only uses 196 HP while 252 HP avoids the OHKO. Since we are talking about revenge killing though, Malamar would probably have at least one Superpower boost, in which case it survives pretty easily.

Special Luke fails to come close without any boosts.

This is obviously somewhat situational (if the enemy doesn't have a Pokemon in between base 72 and base 80 with little to no investment, that speed investment is useless), but I think it helps Malamar out a lot if it's using a more offensive set with Rock Slide.




At the very least, I do think 20 Spe is necessary to beat 75s like Florges because it at least gives Malamar somewhat of a chance against it with vary little investment. Without the speed, Florges always outspeeds and Malamar can't do anything.

4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 196 HP / 4 SpD Malamar: 288-338 (79.5 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 196 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Malamar: 192-228 (53 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Malamar Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 204-241 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


That said, what are your thoughts? Do you think it is worth a main set (for Assault Vest + Choice Scarf which would clean up a lot of the ambiguity on the current Attacking set) or just relegate to the comments of the Attacking set (which might be better since the set isn't too different but does play a bit differently and might make the comments confusing)?


and fwiw I've updated the OP without the extra set. I also shifted the Rest Talk set to the top because that seems to be Malamar's best use atm.

 

[alexwolf]

I really like the sound of the AV set. After getting a boost on a forced switch, it hits rather hard and is super bulky on both sides, while being able to beat even the bulkiest physical walls. Your spread is also the ideal one, so good job! Unless anyone disagrees, i would like to see the AV set added and QC stamp this.

 

[darkie]

alright I've added the AV set and reworked the skeletons of the other sets to compensate as well as redid the checks and counters section. wanna talk a look at it again before I write it up alexwolf

 

[DarkPhoton]

Been testing the AV set and its worked really well. Mega lucario has never OHKO me with close-combat because either I always have +1 defense up from Superpower or it just flat out missed the kill as after all, it's 19% chance to OHKO. To put it in another perspective that shows how rare that is, it's as if Mega Luke were trying to kill you with the move Fissure that had a further 10% decrease in its accuracy. In other words it's very unreliable method of taking you out, whereas you can kill the luke with your superpower.

However on the other hand, the speed EVs gained from losing those HP evs is amazing for Goodra, Togekiss, and Heatran. I've beat Heatran many times because of outspeeding, where even a lava plume burn can still safely 2HKO the Heatran where if I were outsped it would definitely be tougher. Togekiss always gets dealt with like this: switches into superpower and tanks it like a champ, however gets hit to below half health with a boosted Rock Slide. It retaliates with moonblast but that fails to OHKO with assault vest even if I've taken some residiual damage prior, and I proceed to take the kill with another rock slide. I would lose everytime without the speed advantage over togekiss. Goodra gets easily taken out from boosted superpower(s) and can't do much back.

I want to see more QC checks on this and further discussion / comments, it hasn't been touched for a while which is quite unfortunate. While not a very strong contender for OU its still a relatively unique pokemon and playstyle. I'll be trying more sets and post here if I discover anything useful.

 

[Jukain]

qc 2/3, good job

 

[alexwolf]

Didn't we decide that Malamar didn't deserve to be ranked in the viability ranking thread? Which, consequently means that it shouldn't have an analysis?

 

[darkie]

dunno it was ranked as a D for a while, i don't keep up with that thread so i dunno if that changed at all.

in all honestly, it's probably going to end up RU so i am ok with just putting a pin in this for now and adjusting to the proper metagame in a few weeks/months/whatever

 

[TinyNinja]

Um, you mispelled the second bullet point in team options on the RestTalk set.

"- fire types make good teammates because the resist both bug and fairy."

 

[alexwolf]

Sorry, but Malamar is very bad.

QC REJECTED 1/3

 

[Fuzznip]

Somewhere deep down in my heart, I still love you.

QC REJECTED 2/3