Masquerain

[anubite]

Masquerain:

70 HP, 60 ATK, 62 DEF, 60 SPD, 80 SPATK, 82 SPDEF

Level up: Lv1: Ominous Wind, Lv1: Bubble, Lv1: Quick Attack, Lv1: Sweet Scent, Lv1: Water Sport, Lv7: Quick Attack, Lv13: Sweet Scent, Lv19: Water Sport, Lv22: Gust, Lv26: Scary Face, Lv33: Stun Spore, Lv40: Silver Wind, Lv47: Air Slash, Lv54: Whirlwind, Lv61: Bug Buzz, Lv68: Butterfly Dance

Egg moves: Foresight, Mud Shot, Psybeam, Hydro Pump, Mind Reader, Signal Beam, Bug Bite, Aqua Jet, Endure

Learnable TMs: TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM27 - Return, TM30 - Shadow Ball, TM32 - Double Team, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM53 - Energy Ball, TM55 - Boiling Water, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM70 - Flash, TM76 - Bug Resistance, TM77 - Psych Up, TM87 - Swagger, TM89 - U-Turn, TM90 - Substitute

Abilities: Tension (Dream World), Intimidate


I feel that Masquerain got one obvious tune up with the inclusion of Butterfly Dance. With useable SpA and SpD stats, Intimidate and Butterfly Dance, Masquerain can possibly become a contendor for UU.

Ability: Intimidate
Hold Item: Life Orb
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP

Butterfly Dance
Bug Buzz
Ice Beam / Blizzard
Hydro Pump

The item choice is a little tenative, given the number of items we don't understand yet, but I think this set has the potential to take Masquerain somewhere. Masquerain makes a good pokemon to throw in against a bulky physical. Intimidate ensures Masquerain's survival, then Butterfly Dance makes him quite bulky versus special attackers and perhaps speedy enough to OHKO faster offensive types.

A defensive baton pass-themed Masquerain could also work, replacing Ice Beam/HP with Stun Spore/Whirlwind. Psych Up could also be a gimmicky way to play BP masquerain.

Rock is Masquerain's greatest threat, but he checks rock types fairly well. Stealth Rock is what will inhibit using him in many battles, but it remains to be seen how popular stealth rock will remain this gen.

Any thoughts? Am I being delusional?






Edit: I think I made this thread a little too constrained. Masquerain is better now, but what about Venomoth?

Venomoth:

Abilities: Shield Dust, Tinted Lens, Miracle Skin (Dream World)

70HP/ 65Atk/ 60Def/ 90SpA/ 75SpD/ 90 Spe

Level up: Venomoth: Lv1: Silver Wind, Lv1: Tackle, Lv1: Disable, Lv1: Foresight, Lv1: Supersonic, Lv5: Supersonic, Lv11: Confusion, Lv13: PoisonPowder, Lv17: Leech Life, Lv23: Stun Spore, Lv25: Psybeam, Lv29: Sleep Powder, Lv31: Gust, Lv37: Signal Beam, Lv41: Zen Headbutt, Lv47: Poison Fang, Lv55: Psychic, Lv59: Bug Buzz, Lv63: [M483]Butterfly Dance

Egg Moves: Baton Pass, Screech, Giga Drain, Signal Beam, Agility, Morning Sun, Toxic Spikes, Bug Bite, Secret Power, Skill Swap, [M476]Rage Power

TM/HM : TM06 - Toxic, TM09 - Venom Shock, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM27 - Return, TM29 - Psychic, TM32 - Double Team, TM36 - Sludge Bomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM53 - Energy Ball, TM62 - Acrobat, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM70 - Flash, TM76 - Bug Resistance, TM87 - Swagger, TM89 - U-Turn, TM90 - Substitute

Yeah, Masquerain is interesting, but I think Venomoth shows the most enormous change from GenIV to GenV, of all the old bug types. Which is great, because I love Venomoth and happily use him now in OU (mostly as a joke/surprise but sometimes he'll OHKO something and I'll be able to giggle).

Firstly, Venomoth has superior typing, he only takes 25% from SR. Secondly, Venomoth's poison typing is a great boon to his offensive potential, unlike Masquerain. His abilities are about as good as Masquerain's, but they're much better for sweeping, though they don't make Venomoth as easy to switch in with.

Tinted Lens is amazing. Although the old set with Venomoth relies on Choice Specs, after one Butterfly dance, you have that in effect anyway. I'm uncertain how to build Venomoth for this set, but I think going 252 SpA, 252 Spe would be best – although Venomoth needs more stats allocated to bulk, to survive more than one hit, this could be offset by packing Giga Drain or Morning Sun.

252 Spa, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Item: Life Orb or Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens

Butterfly Dance
Bug Buzz
Venom Shock
Giga Drain

Of course, Sleep Powder is always an option, however I think Venomoth needs all the type coverage it can get. HP Ground/Water should also be considered, as a fire switch in is going to be tough to beat, especially something that has 4x resistance to bug/grass.

With Giga Drain's buff and Venomoth's need for survivability, I think it takes precedence over Energy Ball. Venom Shock is going to get the most use out of a team with Toxic Spikes set up. Venomoth also learns toxic spikes, but I'm not sure how to configure a defensive Venomoth that could take advantag of that, though it could work theorhetically - Venomoth DOES have shield dust and whirlwind and baton pass, so he has so many defensive options.

Really it's sad Venomoth doesn't have a third evolution / better stats, because his move pool is so versatile and his stats are so close to being where they need to be. In GenIV he was an inferior Yanmega, but now he's something much more unique, with the buff to Giga Drain and the inclusion of Butterfly Dance/Venom Shock.

 

[tofucocoa]

Probably something you'll see every once in a while on random WiFi battles. However, after seeing Overhazard beat down many a Pokemon with Hydro Pump, I wouldn't be surprised if he made middle class NU.

 

[IcyMan28]

Hydro Pump is something that distinguishes Masquerain from other Bug types, allowing it to hit Fire types such as Houndoom, Arcanine, etc, which is cool. It could have a definite niche.

 

[anubite]

Updated with Venomoth. Masquerain feels a little more safe to use than Venomoth, so I dobut Venomoth is going to get out of NU any time soon, but I'm quite excited about using him in the future.

 

[Grassmen]

Venomoth also gets Baton Pass via breeding. It's defences aren't great, so it probably won't be able to get too many Butterfly Dances in, but even one dance followed by a baton pass could be useful.

Now, I'm a complete novice, just thinking of getting into competitive play this gen, but could something like this work?

Bold Venomoth @Focus Sash/Black Sludge
252HP, 252Def, 4Spe
Shield Dust (not sure exactly what Miracle Skin does, could be useful)

Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Roost(?)
Bug Buzz/Silver Wind

Butterfly Dance to raise SpA, SpD and Speed. Use as many times as possible/desired. A Focus Sash helps keep Venomoth in play for at least one turn, and hopefully the speed boost allows it to go first the next turn to pass the stat boosts. Black Sludge might be a better alternative if Venomoth has more chance to last longer. Roost is for reliable recovery (requires 4th gen TM) - perhaps more suited to a Black Sludge set. Bug Buzz will benefit from the SpA boost and is a pretty reliable move. Silver Wind meanwhile is for those who might want to take their chances on more potential stat boosting. Shield Dust is probably more suitable because Venomoth is playing defensively.

Roost could be replaced with Sleep Powder, gaining at least one free turn to Butterfly Dance, but its accuracy could put people off. You could also try taking EVs from Defense and putting them into Speed to help aid the chance of Baton Passing successfully - this would probably work better with the Sash set.

Time for the experts to tear this to shreads :P

Just saw there's a Venomoth thread already - I'll post this there instead :P

 

[rh2012]

i'll try this in OU just for laughs. and really, it CAN score a KO or 2 if not dealt with properly...

 

[Crystic]

Venomoth is clearly better at sweeping with slightly better offensive stats (10 more Base in Sp.A), has a whopping 30 more base Speed and has better typing(thank you stealth rock). Venomoth also has Tinted Lens. However, Masquerain is more inclined to defense sporting 62 Base Def (not factoring Intimidate) to Venomoth's Base 60, and having 82 Base Sp.Def to Venomoth's Base 75. So a set utilizing these better defenses would be best.

Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Calm
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Sp.Def
-Butterfly Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hydro Pump
-Roost/Baton Pass

With this set you can come in (SR beware) to a lot of weaker physical attacks and force switches with Intimidate and be able to threaten with Hydro Pump. Then you can precede to set up with Butterfly Dance. Bug Buzz is for STAB and Roost to heal and get rid of your ugly flying type. Baton Pass can be used to give the boost(s) to a stronger special attacker.

All in all, Masquerain got a little better this Gen.

 

[IcyyDreams]

uhh...you new right?
each pokemon gets its OWN thread so you have take venomoth out or risk your topic being closed :/
EDIT: Also you need to post a sprite of Masquerain

 

[Manaphy]

Hydro Pump is the defining niche about him. He would be mainly outclassed by Venomoith if it wasn't for it. It can hit Fire- Types which Venomoth pretty much bows down too. The lack of Tinted Lens is bad, but I digress.

 

[Farewell]

Masquerain also has Ice Beam, another Niche, which lets it hit Dragons, Flying types, the Poison-Grass types, etc. for Super Effective and KOing then without as much Butterfly Dances.

This can work well if the Dragons are 4x weak as well, such as Altaria.

 

[Manaphy]

Masquerain also has Ice Beam, another Niche, which lets it hit Dragons, Flying types, the Poison-Grass types, etc. for Super Effective and KOing then without as much Butterfly Dances.

This can work well if the Dragons are 4x weak as well, such as Altaria.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Ice Beam. Another nice thing to seperate him from other Butterfly Dance users.



Also, the OP should take out the Venomoth discussion, there's already a thread for it.

 

[Green Mage]

Tough moveslot syndrome. While venomoth gets tinted lens and thus only needs one attack, masquerain learns butterfly dance, bug buzz, roost, baton pass, hydro pump, air slash and ice beam. Venomoth is superior in almost every way, with the exception of hydro pump and ice beam. Venomoth is a better baton passer thanks to sleep powder and can even sweep on its own thanks to tinted lens.

If I was going to use masquerain (and I plan on it being on my NU team) it would be a sweeper with intimidate and dance/buzz/pump/beam. Maybe Air Slash over ice beam?

 

[GravityZero]

My favourite bug!!! If only Game Freak made this fellow Bug/Water like Surskit!

With Drizzle and Spin support behind it, this could be somewhat effective in OU.

Suicide Run Set

Hide

Masquerain @ Life Orb / Water Jewel / Expert Belt
*Unlimited Rain Works*
Intimidate / Tension
Timid / 228 Speed / 252 Sp.Attack / 28 Sp. Defense
- Butterfly Dance (+1 outspeeds Timid Gengar and any non-Jolly ScarfTar, +2 outspeeds Adamant ScarfChomp - 'nuff said)
- Bug Buzz (Oi Tyranitar. I herd you like Bugs, so I put a Buzz in my Bug so you can faint while you suck)
- Hydro Pump (Because sometimes... you just want things to DIE)
- Ice Beam (Oi Garchomp. I herd you like Yache Berry. So I put a +1 in my Beam...)

Baton Pass can be subbed in for HPump and IB.

Getting to +2 and KOing at least one poke are synonyms. Only Ditto, Scizor, and scarfers faster than 468 can solidly stop you in the Drizzle as long as you avoid SR damage.

Bulky BP Set

Hide

Masquerain @ Expert Belt / Occa Berry
*RainFlower*
Intimidate
Calm / 252 Sp. Defense / 196 Speed / 60 HP
- Butterfly Dance (+1 outspeeds Timid Heatran & Shandera, Jolly Doryuuzu, Modest Ninetales, Adamant Garchomp, and Naive Lucario)
- Bug Buzz (STAB, keeps Nattorei and Celebi out of your hair and makes Tar a bit more apprehensive, stops the Psychic S.Taggers from threatening)
- Boiling Water / Hydro Pump (Water is one of Bug's two best coverage types, and stops S.Tag Shandera from ruining your day)
- Baton Pass / Ice Beam / Mud Shot / Hidden Power [Fire]

(Baton Pass lets Masquerain pass it's boosts to Porygon2/<insert suitable poke here>
Without B.Dance, Ice Beam's a OHKO on most 4x weak dragons without Yache Berry as long as you're using Expert Belt
Mud Shot's Masquerain's best anti-Ninetales/Heatran move.
HP Fire gets Scizor out of your hair)

Not a sweeper, which is why the EVs are specially bulkified. It wants to come in against a Nattorei or something else it shouldn't really fear and Butterfly Dance. Completely immune to trappers in Drizzle, after a BD it wont die from Scarf Shandera's best hits.

The rough idea of Masquerain's tankiness:
- Scarfed Modest Drought Ninetales will never KO +1 Masquerain without Overheat or Fire Blast. Fire Blast KOs are rare, occurring around 25% of the time.
- LO Timid Drought Ninetales KOs +1 Rain with Overheat or Fire Blast, but Heat Wave KOs about 10% of the time and Flamethrower doesn't cut it
- Specs Timid Drought Ninetales usually KOs +1 Rain with Flamethrower
- Timid Drought +2 Ninetales KOs +3 Rain with Overheat, most of the time with Fire Blast, never with anything else.
- Modest Drought +2 Ninetales KOs +3 Rain with Overheat/Fire Blast, and KOs about 25% of the time with Heat Wave
- Modest Scarfed Heatran KOs +1 Rain most of the time with Overheat, never with anything else or Drizzle.
- Modest LO Heatran KOs +2 Rain around half of the time with Overheat, never with anything else or Drizzle.
- Modest Scarfed Shandera KOs +1 Rain with Overheat, KOs about 25% of the time with Fire Blast and never with anything else or Drizzle.
- Modest LO Shandera KOs +2 Rain with Overheat but never with Fire Blast or Drizzle.

Since most players aren't psychic, Masquerain needs two things facing the metagame's best fire types: Drizzle support, and spinners to control SR. Masquerain could happily set up on any Heatran or Shandera if it has the drizzle helping it out. Occa Berry makes this easier on Masquerain, especially against Ninetales (can you say +2 Boiling or Mud Shot = bai bai fox?), but only once vs Heatran/Shandera and sacrifices Expert Belt's power.

Of course, this thing can handle quite a few resisted and neutral special hits once.

 

[SilentVerse]

I think Masquerain's main niche with Butterfly Dance will be Baton Passing. Since only Venomoth and it learn Baton Pass, it lets Masquerain have something to seperate itself from Urugamosu and such. Ice Beam, as mentioned by numerous people in this thread, is also quite useful to deal with Dragons. I think an offensive Butterfly Dance Pass set would probably be Masquerain's best bet:

Masquerain @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Intimidate / Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Butterfly Dance
-Air Slash / Bug Buzz
-Hydro Pump / Roost
-Baton Pass

It's pretty much the same as the Gen 4 Baton Pass set really. Just Butterfly Dance, maybe kill something that doesn't expect Hydro Pump, then Baton Pass. Masquerain didn't really have the defenses to use a defensive Baton Pass set, though I'm not sure how much Butterfly Dance will affect that. It's unfortunate that even with Max Speed, Masquerain can't outspeed Max Speed Base 115s after a Butterfly Dance. Yeah, it's kinda outclassed by Venomoth, but even though this set doesn't abuse it, Masquerain does have better defenses. Hydro Pump is also really cool.

To be honest, Masquerain didn't really get much at all, though I suppose Butterfly Dance is a huge leap by itself.

 

[Shadow hunter]

Venomoth also gets Baton Pass via breeding. It's defences aren't great, so it probably won't be able to get too many Butterfly Dances in, but even one dance followed by a baton pass could be useful.

Now, I'm a complete novice, just thinking of getting into competitive play this gen, but could something like this work?

Bold Venomoth @Focus Sash/Black Sludge
252HP, 252Def, 4Spe
Shield Dust (not sure exactly what Miracle Skin does, could be useful)

Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Roost(?)
Bug Buzz/Silver Wind

Butterfly Dance to raise SpA, SpD and Speed. Use as many times as possible/desired. A Focus Sash helps keep Venomoth in play for at least one turn, and hopefully the speed boost allows it to go first the next turn to pass the stat boosts. Black Sludge might be a better alternative if Venomoth has more chance to last longer. Roost is for reliable recovery (requires 4th gen TM) - perhaps more suited to a Black Sludge set. Bug Buzz will benefit from the SpA boost and is a pretty reliable move. Silver Wind meanwhile is for those who might want to take their chances on more potential stat boosting. Shield Dust is probably more suitable because Venomoth is playing defensively.

Roost could be replaced with Sleep Powder, gaining at least one free turn to Butterfly Dance, but its accuracy could put people off. You could also try taking EVs from Defense and putting them into Speed to help aid the chance of Baton Passing successfully - this would probably work better with the Sash set.

Time for the experts to tear this to shreads :P

Just saw there's a Venomoth thread already - I'll post this there instead :P

lol why use sheild dust?? he has tinded lens one of the most awnsome abilities ever(doubles the power of not very effective moves) this means unless the pokemon has a quad resist it will take full power atack in the face

venomoth set
timid 4hp 252 spa 252 speed
tinded lens

buterfly dance
bug buzz
psychic *
sleep power

*(since heatran/skarm is imune to sludge bomb and has quad resist to bug and is the attack with most BP he learns also the only thing imune to psychic are dark types who get owned by bug buzz )

first sleep the counter second buterfly dance third kick his ass venomoth will be epic and perhaps a life orb as item


still this is masquerain thread so i think a masquerain could be a good baton passer because

intimidate(tension sucks) can force switches and you buterfly dance on the switch then his conter arrives hopefully slower and you just baton pass away maybe timid with max speed will be required

 

[WeAreAliens]

Butteryfly Dance will go a long way to help Masquerain, but aside from his very strong movepool, the Butterfly Dance will be more of a waste, especially with Venomoth and Butterfree dancing circles around him with better attacking power and special defence, respectively.
Masquerain's Hydro Pump seems to make him more gimicky if he was used over the other boosting bugs.
poor guy...

 

[NeoSeth]

Remove Venomoth from the OP please. There's already a thread on him, and this is a thread for Masquerain. This also isn't a thread for Butterfly Dance.

That said, Masquerain is interesting. Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are what really set him apart from Venomoth, who outclasses him otherwise.

 

[thepoliceyo]

Masquerain rocks

Run butterfly dance, rest, 2 attacks and chesto. I see it tearing things to shreds.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Run butterfly dance, rest, 2 attacks and chesto. I see it tearing things to shreds.

The only problem with that is that Volcarona does it better because it has a better secondary STAB in Fire, as well as having better initial Special stats and Speed.

Masquerain is better off outright sweeping with its Quiver Dance boosts or Baton Passing them to others.

 

[Tenodera]

Agreeing with PlatinumDude, Quiver Dance and 3 attacks would get the most out of its movepool and differentiate it best. I wouldn't think it's bulky enough to Rest and the power or utility from a different item is better.

 

[Bombkirby]

Well its typing isn't really its downfall. Its SR really...

Bring in the Rapid Spin support!!!

But yeah Overhazard used this a LOT. That guy inspired me to use little underrated gems like this guy and my favorite duo, Plusle and Minun, in doubles.

IMO I'd pack Ice Beam and Hydro Pump in any offensive moveset. Those are the two defining moves its got.

 

[Xav]

Honestly, Masquerain is completely outclassed by Volcarona and even the likes of Venomoth. Even its onlt possible niche, baton passing butterfly dances, it is outclassed in by Venomoth, who has Tinted Lens, Sleep Powder and can actualy take use of the boosts. Venomoth also has access to Toxic Spikes if your into that. I really don't see Masquerain rising up the ranks, even when UU comes into fruition.

Also why was this necro'd, let it rest people.

 

[Je-Muzu]

Seriously GF. Masquerain would be awesome Bug/water, intimidate is useful on him, but a STAB hydro pump after 1 or 2 quiver dance will sting probaly KO quite a few.

 

[elchupo]

While Tinted Lens would have been a godsend (Tinted Lens+ Hydro Pump= spooge) Intimidate allows more oppertunities to switch in and cause a switch, especially in a Fighting- orientated metagame. Coming in on a 4x resist and causing them to go to -1 with Intimidate will more than likely cause them to switch, meaning Masquerain can get in a Butter....Quiver (eugh) Dance or 2.


I'm looking forward to using it in UU, to say the least.

 

[mudkipmaster]

Intimidate+Butterfly Dance is a powerful tanking combo. I could see this on my UU team someday.