1. Yes, it clutters up the thread and is in the rules, which you have obviously not read.
2. Lol, let's not pretend the ladder actually means anything right now.
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Mega-Salamence: considering a quick ban (Don't ask for the thread to be closed!)
- Thread starter haunter
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2. Lol, let's not pretend the ladder actually means anything right now.
Thanks for the heads up, don't insinuate that me not reading the rules is a huge problem. I have enough common sense to not incite the mods. And well the ladder actually does mean something when you look at your win/lose, it obviously shows how good your team is against the meta
Go in the OU lobby, my account name is Recreeant.
Beating random Salamences on the ladder means nothing. Maybe its just that I've only recently gotten back into competitive Pokemon right now and my ladder score is still low, but almost all of the mences I've faced so far were being commanded by some...not-so-skilled players who think setting up against Sableye is a good idea.
I'd rather trust numbers then replays.
I'd rather trust numbers then replays.
Win/loss record, maybe, or maybe that it means that you have just tried many different things and learned for yourself what does and doesn't work, which is what you should be doing, not playing 1 team that happens to win. Being at the top of the ladder definitely means something, but not that you're any good, just that you have more free time on your hands than most people and that you are better at using/countering Salamence than most people.
I'd much rather play against people I personally know and consider good players in a non-ranked battle than some 12 year old with a team devoted to setting Salamence up just to move up a spot. The results will be much more representative of what might actually be viable in ORAS, because nothing is viable as long as Salamence is still around
We've gotten way off topic, haven't we? Is there anything else to really talk about though?
It's futile. While Mandibuzz can take on a physically biased mence, it suffers from the exact same problem that all the other physical walls that supposedly beat this thing do in that it loses to the special set.
252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 189-223 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
While it takes the hits acceptably well, it's lost its only recourse for killing Mence as foul play does nothing and trying to do anything but roost in front of it is guaranteed to seal its doom.
The special set lures in mence's usual counters and removes them, clearing the way for teammates that share the same defensive counters as DD mence to sweep. In addition, it's quite simply a strong attacking threat in its own right, with high raw power and incredibly good coverage. While the DD set is ultimately more threatening on the whole special Mence's unique strategic applications make it more than viable in this meta and contributes to the fact that this monster has almost no universal counter. Just because you haven't encountered it doesn't mean that it's not a real threat.
A adamant mega sceptiles dragon claw (after mega evolving) dosent even kill mega salamences. in my opinion mega salamences amazing bulk and acess to moves like dragon dance really makes it one of the best dragon dances in the whole game. with facade and arielate even burning him wont always stop his sweeps. mega salamence is just too hard to beat so i would suggest a suspect test.
Really, I don't know how you guys didn't manage to debunk the fact that Mandibuzz is not an Mega Salamence counter.
Offensive 3 attacks MegaMence:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 246-291 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 202-238 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SubDD MegaMence:
+1 92+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 243-286 (57.4 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 198-234 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mandibuzz will lose if it tries to switch in on both boosting variants of MegaMence; boosted Return 2HKOes while Foul Play fails to OHKO in turn. Mandibuzz does get one good hit off, but it will pretty much never respond to MegaMence quickly enough, compared to something like Ice Beam + Thunder Wave Cresselia (and even that isn't particularly reliable due to its Pursuit weakness and reliance on Moonlight, meaning you can't run weather on your team). I think PikachuCandyツ is disillusioned by the fact that Mandibuzz can prevent MegaMence from setting up in its face and win 1v1, which is a stupid thing for the MegaMence user to do in the first place.
Offensive 3 attacks MegaMence:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 246-291 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 202-238 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SubDD MegaMence:
+1 92+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 243-286 (57.4 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 198-234 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mandibuzz will lose if it tries to switch in on both boosting variants of MegaMence; boosted Return 2HKOes while Foul Play fails to OHKO in turn. Mandibuzz does get one good hit off, but it will pretty much never respond to MegaMence quickly enough, compared to something like Ice Beam + Thunder Wave Cresselia (and even that isn't particularly reliable due to its Pursuit weakness and reliance on Moonlight, meaning you can't run weather on your team). I think PikachuCandyツ is disillusioned by the fact that Mandibuzz can prevent MegaMence from setting up in its face and win 1v1, which is a stupid thing for the MegaMence user to do in the first place.
My point has been proven. After his plan failed he begged for a rematch. There are no rematches in laddering.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-186948847
Ban plz.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-186948847
Ban plz.
First off, I thought we were testing mandibuzz vs. Salamence, not a full fledged game. That's why I didn't switch into mandibuzz in the 1st place against your spore breloom. I didn't want mandibuzz to lose one bit of hp.
That's not very impressive to be honest.
What is impressive is surviving a Naughty Primal Groudon's Dragon Claw with a 25 level difference in Groudon's favor after Intimidate; and this was Drake's in-game Salamence with no bulk investment. Seriously, what the actual fuck.
I'm pretty sure he meant a counter as in it can take a hit from a +1 Mence and then whirlwind it out, which is can do, but that's not a good idea to have just that as
your only mence check on your team since the next time Mence comes in your Mandi is dying. It's a last resort band-aid fix at best.
In a regular battle, it wouldn't be just Mandibuzz and Salamence. Like me, the opponent would have a team that would deal with Mandibuzz, oml stop using that excuse please.
We did debunk it. Those calcs were posted on the previous page to show that it's barely even a check.
Of course Mandibuzz beats Mence 1v1 if it uses foul play as mence dragon dances. The point is that particular scenario will almost never happen because salamence gets free dances on over half the tier, and as you switch mandibuzz in you're facing a +1 mence… which you can't beat.
Therefore mandibuzz can't beat salamence.
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well your point really dose not prove anything on a competitive level
It's not an excuse, it's a reason. You should have said from the start that you wanted a regular ou battle and not test salamence and mandibuzz. Now that's why at turn 2 I asked for a rematch when I realized that, but seeing as you were unreasonable, I couldn't really have one. So don't come at me with your silly insults
That makes it not that much better than Skarmory in that respect; the difference is that Skarmory resists MegaMence's main attacks (bar Fire Blast) but doesn't do jackshit against last-mon SubDD MegaMence. I guess Mandibuzz can't be Magnet Pulled, but not even resisting MegaMence's attacks means it can only phase MegaMence once before it can no longer take any more hits (even unboosted) from MegaMence.
There is no point in testing MegaMence and Mandibuzz in a 1-on-1 scenario in order to try and prove Mandibuzz as a counter. As powerful as MegaMence is, it can't beat everything in the tier in a 1-on-1 matchup; this applies to many Ubers as well. What makes MegaMence super strong is how easily it gets the opportunity to setup, and how hard it is to stop once it gets going, skewing the risk-reward factor heavily in the MegaMence user's favor.
Lmfao, that's a real nice Mence counter right there xD
Stop. For the love of god, Mandibuzz does not beat Mence 1 vs 1. NOTHING DOES. Seriously, I'm tired of people trying to argue with that fact.
You didn't actually assume it was going to be two teams with one pokemon each? You with mandibuzz and him with salamence? That would prove nothing. In an actual game mandibuzz loses to salamence 95% of the time because by the time mandibuzz comes in salamence is at +1.
You don't seem to understand that mandibuzz can't beat salamence if it's at +1, and you can almost never stop a mega salamence from dragon dancing.
You got your ass beat and your Mence "counter" lost to mence 1v1, that's all that matters
A mand
Ok Mr.HighAndMighty, Tell me that's true when you or any of your little friends can actually beat me in a real game. That wasn't a real game, I took it as a salamenceXmandibuzz test. So don't come with your 10 year old troll comments pls
I'm sorry, but how was that not a real game? You each had 6 Pokemon that were viable in OU, and you had mandibuzz to see how it fares vs mence. Your logic is so flawed it's not even funny, please stop getting so butthurt over this.
Lolwut a "real game"
You lost a match when you were trying to prove Mandibuzz is a Mence counter when it lost 1v1 you fuckin mongoloid. I've done nothing more that state facts.
Just how cancerous it is to the meta. I'm currently trying to use Mega Gyarados to handle Mega Slowbro and Sableye. Forced to ditch taunt for ice fang so it doesn't become a free switch for Salamence.
The point being a good counter is supposed to be able to come in and force an unfavorable situation on it. Mandibuzz hardly does that even at full health and you can't count on the situation on being favorable to you so Mandibuzz isn't a check. Also I noticed in your match you were clearly terrified of using eq against magnezone so you wouldn't give Salamence a free switchin, cause most people know Salamence only needs one turn to end the game and that alone proofs how much influence he has on the metagame.
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