Monotype Viability Rankings

[Wanka]

It doesn't necessarily matter how big the margin is though. Any team can void its S rank mons and use different mons to fill similar roles but ofc the team will not nearly be as good because you are using mons that don't accomplish a respective role as well as an S rank mon would. And yes, you said you don't think it hurts bug to not use armaldo, I think it does because arma offers more to bug teams than its competition so from my standards, yes, bug as a whole is hurt without it. That doesn't mean they cant function, but they are still affected by it like any other type would be.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

I don't think Armaldo is an S ranked mon in itself. If anything I think ist more A+, but it itself does not define how bug is used, its not a necessity, meaning, teams could go without it and not be moderately/severely hurt without its presence.

People keep saying this and it bugs me. These subdivisions don't exist in this project as of now, and unless someone wants to go through and change that they won't. Everyone acknowledges Armaldo is above the caliber of all of the rest of A. That logically places it in the next level up, which in this project is S.

 

[Dece1t]

People keep saying this and it bugs me. These subdivisions don't exist in this project as of now, and unless someone wants to go through and change that they won't. Everyone acknowledges Armaldo is above the caliber of all of the rest of A. That logically places it in the next level up, which in this project is S.

That still doesn;t change the fact though that its technically in the A rank category, just in the higher subdivisions. That's just like saying that a B+ mon is A, when really it honestly isn't up to that caliber, or S+ needs to be banned just because its on the higher margin of S. A+ is still A regardless, and my opinion is Armaldo is in that.

 

[Wanka]

That still doesn;t change the fact though that its technically in the A rank category, just in the higher subdivisions. That's just like saying that a B+ mon is A, when really it honestly isn't up to that caliber, or S+ needs to be banned just because its on the higher margin of S. A+ is still A regardless, and my opinion is Armaldo is in that.

That would be ok if there were A+ and B+ ranks in our VR system, but there isn't. In other tiers VR's that logic is perfectly fine because those tiers actually have B+ and A+ ranks. We don't so you cant use that to justify ur argument.

 

[Dece1t]

That would be ok if there were A+ and B+ ranks in our VR system, but there isn't. In other tiers VR's that logic is perfectly fine because those tiers actually have B+ and A+ ranks. We don't so you cant use that to justify ur argument.

What are you talking about? That's a perfectly legitament argument. We have letter ranks, but in between some mons are still better than others, which is why I was referring to the +/-'s, bc they're still there, just hidden technically. Point is if it's A+ let's say, then that doesn't mean it's S, it's still apart of the A sub category.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

What are you talking about? That's a perfectly legitament argument. We have letter ranks, but in between some mons are still better than others, which is why I was referring to the +/-'s, bc they're still there, just hidden technically. Point is if it's A+ let's say, then that doesn't mean it's S, it's still apart of the A sub category.

If the subranks existed for this project, wouldn't they be marked? You can't impose A+ on something when A+ genuinely isn't listed as an option. If someone were to go through and add subranks, I by all means agree with you. As it sits, those subranks do not exist though. This shouldn't be a battle of semantics at this stage: Armaldo is better than all of A as it sits so it should logically rise to S.

 

[scpinion]

I'm just going to head this off now, given the direction these last couple posts have gone. We don't need sub ranks on the viability rankings.

There aren't enough viable Pokemon within each type to warrant it.

As for Armaldo, I prefer S rank. It is the premier hazard control on a type that is weak to hazards. Its secondary typing gives two useful resistances (fire and flying). It also doesn't suck momentum. Contrast that with scizor and forry, who die to fire moves and can be utilized in better roles or suck momentum, respectively.

I also liken this to the flying rankings, another type weak to rocks. There, zapdos and skarmory are S rank because they are the premier hazard control and carry useful resistances for the type (among other things). To continue the analogy, Armaldo is zapdos, while forry is something like mandibuzz.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Manaphy: S Rank to A Rank

Manaphy simply doesn't thrive in the extremely offensive monotype we're getting into as of late. Metagame trends like Hoopa's continued existance, HO Steel, and furthering of other offensive types continue to push the meta in a more and more offensive direction, and this makes Manaphy have an extremely hard time doing anything other than just sitting there or dying in half of matchups. It's heavy reliance on boosting to get off any form of damage furthers this quite a bit as well.

 

[Dece1t]

Doing this at the request of a Mr. Wanka

Zygarde for B Rank (Ground)

I was surprised that this was unranked on Ground, it has some great niches (special thanks to Cell for introducing to me how great this mon is)! I'll pass the set I've been using on a couple of my own Ground Teams.

Zygarde @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Outrage

This may come as a surprise, but, this is an awesome set! It's very good as a boosting sweeper with the ability to clean mid or late game. Thanks to its typing it is neutral to water, and its got pretty good natural defenses, so it isn't very hard to get it to +1, especially with a Lum Berry preventing burns, sleep, poison, outrage confusion (lol). It helps me tremendously against Fire, Water, Grass, Dragon (if I'm lucky enough to get it a boost), Psychic, Flying, ect. It's also very viable with a Special Defensive Coil set as well, but I prefer this because it's so much easier to sweep.

Here's a couple replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-351775087
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-351758399
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-347877408
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-349844977

 

[Zap]

Kingdra on water from B rank to S rank:

Seeing it on B rank really shocked me, as kingdra's ability and typing alone make it amazing on water mono. Having a dragon typing allows kingdra to have 2 key resistances, electric and grass, and without any investment can tank a few hits from some neutral hits, most notably from threats.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 142-169 (48.7 - 58%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 237-279 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

im just showing calcs for mons that i think are notably threatening to water mono's, atleast mine from my experience. Anyways, enough about resistance, lets talk about offensive pressure. Kingdra with rain up, can proceed to sweep teams with this set:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 240-283 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 225-265 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is just the chunk of damage it does to threats, and because of it's amazing ability SS, it can pretty much proceed to sweep with just surf alone to anything it damages neutral as well. Reaching a speed of 538 with modest under rain, it outspeeds scarf serperior at max speed most notably, which is an extremely huge threat to water monos/ It also is a huge help against fighting teams, which can be a problem for water monos. It also deals with bug, volcarona being a key threat despite its fire typing, and it just generally deals well with the types that are popular in the current meta, such as flying and psychic.

------------------

Another water mono mon i think need to be upgraded:
Tentracruel from B rank to A rank.

well again, giga drain mons, leech seed mons, toxic mons, mega sableye, hazard control, removal of toxic spikes upon entry, neutral to grass attacks, special defensive wall.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Acid Spray
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Knock Off / Filler

tentacruel has liquid ooze, which allows it to stop the momentum from giga drain/leech seed mons that threaten the team and hit them back with their own attack, notably mega venusaur, ludicolo, and ferrothorn (which can be a huge pain to take out). Having access to acid spray allows it to deal with the likes of chansey, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, and ofcourse rapid spin is a huge help. Anyways, i think tentacruel is a great support mon and has a nice spot in water mono teams to deal with threats.

TL;DR: I think kingdra hits hard af and has great typing, and needs to be S rank on water mono.
I think tentacruel has a great typing and support movepool that makes it great on water monos.



Posting for the first time in smogon so sorry if I messed up. ^

 

[Dece1t]

Kingdra on water from B rank to S rank:

Seeing it on B rank really shocked me, as kingdra's ability and typing alone make it amazing on water mono. Having a dragon typing allows kingdra to have 2 key resistances, electric and grass, and without any investment can tank a few hits from some neutral hits, most notably from threats.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 142-169 (48.7 - 58%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 237-279 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

im just showing calcs for mons that i think are notably threatening to water mono's, atleast mine from my experience. Anyways, enough about resistance, lets talk about offensive pressure. Kingdra with rain up, can proceed to sweep teams with this set:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 240-283 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 225-265 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is just the chunk of damage it does to threats, and because of it's amazing ability SS, it can pretty much proceed to sweep with just surf alone to anything it damages neutral as well. Reaching a speed of 538 with modest under rain, it outspeeds scarf serperior at max speed most notably, which is an extremely huge threat to water monos/ It also is a huge help against fighting teams, which can be a problem for water monos. It also deals with bug, volcarona being a key threat despite its fire typing, and it just generally deals well with the types that are popular in the current meta, such as flying and psychic.

------------------

Another water mono mon i think need to be upgraded:
Tentracruel from B rank to A rank.

well again, giga drain mons, leech seed mons, toxic mons, mega sableye, hazard control, removal of toxic spikes upon entry, neutral to grass attacks, special defensive wall.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Acid Spray
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Knock Off / Filler

tentacruel has liquid ooze, which allows it to stop the momentum from giga drain/leech seed mons that threaten the team and hit them back with their own attack, notably mega venusaur, ludicolo, and ferrothorn (which can be a huge pain to take out). Having access to acid spray allows it to deal with the likes of chansey, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, and ofcourse rapid spin is a huge help. Anyways, i think tentacruel is a great support mon and has a nice spot in water mono teams to deal with threats.

TL;DR: I think kingdra hits hard af and has great typing, and needs to be S rank on water mono.
I think tentacruel has a great typing and support movepool that makes it great on water monos.



Posting for the first time in smogon so sorry if I messed up. ^

Disagree wuth your 1st notion, however I can agree it does deserve a rank up I think. It's very dangerous under swift swim, and it's fairly easy to switch in because the only type it's weak to is dragon. Not to mention the dragon stab is incredibly powerful, especially with a Choice Specs slapped on it. Wouldn't say S, but A would be good.

As for Tenta, the biggest thing that hurts it is its lack of recovery. Its pretty bulky, but it can only take hits for so long unfortunately, B rank is good enough.

On a side note, welcome to smogon! :)

 

[Omega-Xis]

Kingdra on water from B rank to S rank:

Seeing it on B rank really shocked me, as kingdra's ability and typing alone make it amazing on water mono. Having a dragon typing allows kingdra to have 2 key resistances, electric and grass, and without any investment can tank a few hits from some neutral hits, most notably from threats.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 142-169 (48.7 - 58%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 237-279 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

im just showing calcs for mons that i think are notably threatening to water mono's, atleast mine from my experience. Anyways, enough about resistance, lets talk about offensive pressure. Kingdra with rain up, can proceed to sweep teams with this set:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 240-283 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 225-265 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is just the chunk of damage it does to threats, and because of it's amazing ability SS, it can pretty much proceed to sweep with just surf alone to anything it damages neutral as well. Reaching a speed of 538 with modest under rain, it outspeeds scarf serperior at max speed most notably, which is an extremely huge threat to water monos/ It also is a huge help against fighting teams, which can be a problem for water monos. It also deals with bug, volcarona being a key threat despite its fire typing, and it just generally deals well with the types that are popular in the current meta, such as flying and psychic.

------------------

Another water mono mon i think need to be upgraded:
Tentracruel from B rank to A rank.

well again, giga drain mons, leech seed mons, toxic mons, mega sableye, hazard control, removal of toxic spikes upon entry, neutral to grass attacks, special defensive wall.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Acid Spray
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Knock Off / Filler

tentacruel has liquid ooze, which allows it to stop the momentum from giga drain/leech seed mons that threaten the team and hit them back with their own attack, notably mega venusaur, ludicolo, and ferrothorn (which can be a huge pain to take out). Having access to acid spray allows it to deal with the likes of chansey, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, and ofcourse rapid spin is a huge help. Anyways, i think tentacruel is a great support mon and has a nice spot in water mono teams to deal with threats.

TL;DR: I think kingdra hits hard af and has great typing, and needs to be S rank on water mono.
I think tentacruel has a great typing and support movepool that makes it great on water monos.



Posting for the first time in smogon so sorry if I messed up. ^

Kingdra is fine where it is. It's one niche is rain; it's not seen outside of that. It has a rather subpar speed tier and rather average defenses, so it really needs rain to see use. If something has one niche, I disagree with putting it in A rank.

As for Tenta, I also think it's fine where it is. Frail physically although it does do well from keeping things like Volc from destroying you. However, water has other ways of dealing with Grass type moves (Sap Sipper Azu), and Tenta lacks recovery.

 

[Eien]

Kingdra on water from B rank to S rank:

Seeing it on B rank really shocked me, as kingdra's ability and typing alone make it amazing on water mono. Having a dragon typing allows kingdra to have 2 key resistances, electric and grass, and without any investment can tank a few hits from some neutral hits, most notably from threats.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 142-169 (48.7 - 58%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 237-279 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

im just showing calcs for mons that i think are notably threatening to water mono's, atleast mine from my experience. Anyways, enough about resistance, lets talk about offensive pressure. Kingdra with rain up, can proceed to sweep teams with this set:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 240-283 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 225-265 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this is just the chunk of damage it does to threats, and because of it's amazing ability SS, it can pretty much proceed to sweep with just surf alone to anything it damages neutral as well. Reaching a speed of 538 with modest under rain, it outspeeds scarf serperior at max speed most notably, which is an extremely huge threat to water monos/ It also is a huge help against fighting teams, which can be a problem for water monos. It also deals with bug, volcarona being a key threat despite its fire typing, and it just generally deals well with the types that are popular in the current meta, such as flying and psychic.

------------------

Another water mono mon i think need to be upgraded:
Tentracruel from B rank to A rank.

well again, giga drain mons, leech seed mons, toxic mons, mega sableye, hazard control, removal of toxic spikes upon entry, neutral to grass attacks, special defensive wall.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Acid Spray
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Knock Off / Filler

tentacruel has liquid ooze, which allows it to stop the momentum from giga drain/leech seed mons that threaten the team and hit them back with their own attack, notably mega venusaur, ludicolo, and ferrothorn (which can be a huge pain to take out). Having access to acid spray allows it to deal with the likes of chansey, mega venusaur, and mega sableye, and ofcourse rapid spin is a huge help. Anyways, i think tentacruel is a great support mon and has a nice spot in water mono teams to deal with threats.

TL;DR: I think kingdra hits hard af and has great typing, and needs to be S rank on water mono.
I think tentacruel has a great typing and support movepool that makes it great on water monos.



Posting for the first time in smogon so sorry if I messed up. ^

One of the biggest problems with Kingdra is that you are required to run Politoed with it. This is different from Ground where running Hippowdon to activate Sand Rush Excadrill has next to no opportunity costs. Hippowdon is a top-class wall, can setup Stealth Rock, and Whirlwind enemies while having reliable recovery. Politoed can only set rain and... maybe toxic one or two walls? Politoed provides very little support to the team, as it isn't impressively bulky at all without investment, has no reliable recovery, and provides no resistances that a water team will want. Being forced to run a relatively undesirable Pokemon like Politoed just to activate Kingdra really makes it difficult to rank highly.

Further, while Kingdra arguably provides electric and grass resistances, it isn't particularly bulky and can't switch into these moves. The premier electric move, Discharge, can also permanently cripple the only niche Kingdra has: being fast. Further, especially against grass teams, every move Kingdra switches into puts it that much closer to Breloom Mach Punch range. So it's a little hard to claim Kingdra has much defensive utility.

I'd definitely say it belongs in B.

 

[Anttya]

Not a late response at all, dw! (I had a ton of tests lately so I've been busy asf)

Oh, new co-host btw since Sae Sae insists on being "gone", and Nani is still being an electrician.

Praise iVid!

These rank changes were made by Vid, and I but Paleo and Chef did help :)

Hide

Lucario (Fighting) C -> B
Charizard-Y (Flying) S -> A
Aerodactyl (Flying) C -> B
Staraptor (Flying) B -> C
Honchkrow (Flying) B -> C
Nidoqueen (Poison) S -> A
Mega Beedrill (Poison) C -> B
Mega Garchomp (Ground) S -> A
Mega Camerupt (Ground) B -> A
Tyrantrum (Rock) C -> B
Aurorus (Rock) C -> D
Vivillion (Bug) C-> B
Hoopa (Ghost) C -> B
Doublade (Ghost) C -> B
Durant (Steel) C -> B
Scizor (Steel) B -> C
Cobalion (Steel) B -> C
Bronzong (Steel) D -> C
Slowbro (Water) A -> B
Kabutops (Water) C -> B
Celebi (Grass) C -> B
Shaymin (Grass) D -> C
Magnezone (Electric) S -> A
Mega Medicham (Psychic) S -> A
Deoxys-S (Psychic) A -> B
Deoxys-D (Psychic) B -> C
Mega Abomasnow (Ice) C -> B
Latias (Dragon) S -> A
Sableye (Dark) A -> B
Sylveon (Fairy) A -> B
Slurpuff (Fairy) A -> B
Added Pangoro (Fighting) to D
Added Nidoking (Ground) to B
Added Mega Houndoom (Dark) to B
Goth (Psychic) C -> B

In response to Dece1t these are the things that did not get changed. If you want an explanation, ask and I'll explain why.

Hide

Kept Scrafty at C
Added Pangoro to D
Kept Dragonite at A
Kept Amoongus at C
Kept Rhyperior at C
Kept Mega Aerodactyl at B
Kept Cofa at D
Kept Jirachi at B
Kept Registeel at D
Kept Infernape at A
Kept Mega Gyara at A
Kept Shiftry at C
Kept Virizion at C
Kept Luxray at B
Kept Mega Latias at B
Kept Glalie at C
Kept Lapras + Walrein at B
Kept Tyrantrum at C
Kept Sharpedo at C

VR will be updated eventually

 

[Dece1t]

Not a late response at all, dw! (I had a ton of tests lately so I've been busy asf)

Oh, new co-host btw since Sae Sae insists on being "gone", and Nani is still being an electrician.

Praise iVid!

These rank changes were made by Vid, and I but Paleo and Chef did help :)

Hide

Lucario (Fighting) C -> B
Charizard-Y (Flying) S -> A
Aerodactyl (Flying) C -> B
Staraptor (Flying) B -> C
Honchkrow (Flying) B -> C
Nidoqueen (Poison) S -> A
Mega Beedrill (Poison) C -> B
Mega Garchomp (Ground) S -> A
Mega Camerupt (Ground) B -> A
Tyrantrum (Rock) C -> B
Aurorus (Rock) C -> D
Vivillion (Bug) C-> B
Hoopa (Ghost) C -> B
Doublade (Ghost) C -> B
Durant (Steel) C -> B
Scizor (Steel) B -> C
Cobalion (Steel) B -> C
Bronzong (Steel) D -> C
Slowbro (Water) A -> B
Kabutops (Water) C -> B
Celebi (Grass) C -> B
Shaymin (Grass) D -> C
Magnezone (Electric) S -> A
Mega Medicham (Psychic) S -> A
Deoxys-S (Psychic) A -> B
Deoxys-D (Psychic) B -> C
Mega Abomasnow (Ice) C -> B
Latias (Dragon) S -> A
Sableye (Dark) A -> B
Sylveon (Fairy) A -> B
Slurpuff (Fairy) A -> B
Added Pangoro (Fighting) to D
Added Nidoking (Ground) to B
Added Mega Houndoom (Dark) to B
Goth (Psychic) C -> B

In response to Dece1t these are the things that did not get changed. If you want an explanation, ask and I'll explain why.

Hide

Kept Scrafty at C
Added Pangoro to D
Kept Dragonite at A
Kept Amoongus at C
Kept Rhyperior at C
Kept Mega Aerodactyl at B
Kept Cofa at D
Kept Jirachi at B
Kept Registeel at D
Kept Infernape at A
Kept Mega Gyara at A
Kept Shiftry at C
Kept Virizion at C
Kept Luxray at B
Kept Mega Latias at B
Kept Glalie at C
Kept Lapras + Walrein at B
Kept Tyrantrum at C
Kept Sharpedo at C

VR will be updated eventually

I actually do agree with most of these, but there's a few I wanna touch up on.

Further Suggestions/Questions

Was Weezing changed at all? (I didn't see that on either of those lists).

How come Abomasnow is being ranked up on Ice, but not Glalie?

Also curious why you dropped Mega Garchomp down to A, it's a premier wallbreaker on Ground with great bulk, awesome mixed attacking power (some of it further boosted by Sand Force), and not to mention it's neutral to Water. The Mega Camerupt bump up does surprise me, it's a great mon (I use it on my main Ground Team), but I really can't say for sure whether it deserves A or not, mostly because of the fact it's very slow and has an extremely crippling 4x weakness to water.

How come Sylveon got ranked down on Fairy? Slurpuff I can understand, but I'm a little confused as to why it did.

How come Shiftry wouldn't be B rank? Great priority (especially vs Victini on Psychic), access to STAB Knock Off (that helps greatly vs Normal and Ghost), and not to mention you can even run it mixed with Leaf Storm. That sounds a lot better than some of the other C ranked mons, I feel it should be bumped up with Celebi.

Why was Aurorus on Rock ranked down?

Last thing, why was Honchkrow ranked down on Flying into C rank?

As a side note thanks so much for stepping up iVid, ik you'll do great! :)

 

[Vid]

I actually do agree with most of these, but there's a few I wanna touch up on.

Further Suggestions/Questions

Was Weezing changed at all? (I didn't see that on either of those lists).

How come Abomasnow is being ranked up on Ice, but not Glalie?

Also curious why you dropped Mega Garchomp down to A, it's a premier wallbreaker on Ground with great bulk, awesome mixed attacking power (some of it further boosted by Sand Force), and not to mention it's neutral to Water. The Mega Camerupt bump up does surprise me, it's a great mon (I use it on my main Ground Team), but I really can't say for sure whether it deserves A or not, mostly because of the fact it's very slow and has an extremely crippling 4x weakness to water.

How come Sylveon got ranked down on Fairy? Slurpuff I can understand, but I'm a little confused as to why it did.

How come Shiftry wouldn't be B rank? Great priority (especially vs Victini on Psychic), access to STAB Knock Off (that helps greatly vs Normal and Ghost), and not to mention you can even run it mixed with Leaf Storm. That sounds a lot better than some of the other C ranked mons, I feel it should be bumped up with Celebi.

Why was Aurorus on Rock ranked down?

Last thing, why was Honchkrow ranked down on Flying into C rank?

As a side note thanks so much for stepping up iVid, ik you'll do great! :)

I'll quickly explain these changes and why they occurred

Explanation

Weezing is very hard to fit on a poison team. It looks very good on paper but in play it is meh at best unlike the other B Rank Mons that are good on paper and decent in play

Glalie wasn't moved due to the fact it has no movepull outside of 3 ice type attacks plus eq (which is good coverage Mamo already has it). Unlike Abomasnow which has a big movepull and is able to do work vs bulky water Mons that Kyurem-B can't beat Swampert,Quasire, etc. Also the ability to go mixed allows it to be very good vs Defensive Cores which Glalie doesn't have.

Mega Chomp was moved down to A due to the fact that Regular Chomp and Mega Camel are very good its sort of an opportunity cost change

Sylveon due to the fact it is very hard to fit on fairy teams similarly to Slurpuff and it is overshadowed by the more used Fairy Mons opportunity cost change

Shiftry similar story to Weezing good on paper but meh in practice. Plus more practical things like Trick Rotom-M and Breelom deal with Normal very well. It has a cool niche with defog plus sucker punch. Although most Psychic and Fire users are switching Victini vs Shitry

Aurorus was moved down due to the fact its typing does rock 0 favors for rock and it needs a lot of support to function right. Also it only helps vs Grass but it is easily checked by multiple grass Mons because of its terrible typing. Basically what I am saying its slow speed coupled with bad typing and there are better rock Mons out there.

Honchkrow this is a similar story to Mence very good but overshadowed by the plethora of good Mons on flying. Opportunity cost change

 

[Crimson Torrent]

Gourgeist-Super: Unranked --> B rank (Grass)

I guess I can't be too surprised Gourgeist hasn't been ranked on Grass yet considering that many players don't recognize its viability.
I've been using Gourgeist on my team practically since X and Y dropped and it's proven to be a highly valued member.

The set to run would be:
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Leech Seed
- Protect / Synthesis

Explanation

Gourgeist just offers a lot to the team. It couples extremely well with Ferrothorn and Cradily to counter Fighting types. Let me tell yuh, there's nothing better than taking out a threat like Mega Medicham or Hawlucha with literally nothing but a few switches between Gourgeist and Ferrothorn.
It offers wisp to burn any potential physical threats like Jirachi, Scizor, Dragonite, Gallade, Excadrill etc.
It can wall plenty of offensive 'mons, both special and physical, with its wisp/seed/protect combo.
Plus, Shadow Sneak can come in clutch to pick up the knock out, not to mention it can 2 shot Gardevoir and Alakazam and can pretty easily live shadow balls from the both of 'em.
Frisk even has its usefulness. Finding out Victini is banded and not scarfed is huge.
Oh and he can spin block, which can be important against bug, ice, and fire teams.

Noticing what is already ranked C in Grass, I have to say Gourgeist has proven far more useful than anything that's there now besides maybe Celebi, who kind of stands out among them and could maybe be considered B rank itself. So I definitely feel like it's deserving of a B rank.
If anything, It definitely should be C rank at least, but I stand by B rank.

So yeah, if anything needs more explanation let me know. Like I said, I've been using Gourgeist for quite a while so his usefulness might be more apparent to me than others. XP

 

[Dece1t]

Tagging Anttya to dont forget to update the vr

 

[juleocesar]

Serperior from A rank to B

Another mon who seems to be great on paper but not that much on practice. Although it can work as a great late game cleaner on its own, it actually doesn't handle as much types effectively as an A rank mon should (lots of checks and counters on most types). Besides, it requires a bit more support to work in a reliable way, thanks to its subpar special attack and poor coverage, which often forces it to have at least one boost to hit hard and deal considerable damage with the moves it has. Furthermore, it faces competition with Celebi and Whimsicott, thanks to their movepool and the overall utility they bring to every team, which tends to be just as useful to what Serperior brings, if not more. It still works very well on several situations (late game cleaner as I stated and also with some sort of surprise factor along Mirror Coat and other support moves), but it doesn't perform as well as A rank mons do at most.

 

[Dece1t]

Serperior from A rank to B

Another mon who seems to be great on paper but not that much on practice. Although it can work as a great late game cleaner on its own, it actually doesn't handle as much types effectively as an A rank mon should (lots of checks and counters on most types). Besides, it requires a bit more support to work in a reliable way, thanks to its subpar special attack and poor coverage, which often forces it to have at least one boost to hit hard and deal considerable damage with the moves it has. Furthermore, it faces competition with Celebi and Whimsicott, thanks to their movepool and the overall utility they bring to every team, which tends to be just as useful to what Serperior brings, if not more. It still works very well on several situations (late game cleaner as I stated and also with some sort of surprise factor along Mirror Coat and other support moves), but it doesn't perform as well as A rank mons do at most.

I disagree actually. Serp after 1 boost is extremely dangerous, and is able to sweep relatively easily late game. It also sits at a great speed tier so iisn't forced to run scarf to wreck havoc.

 

[juleocesar]

I disagree actually. Serp after 1 boost is extremely dangerous, and is able to sweep relatively easily late game. It also sits at a great speed tier so iisn't forced to run scarf to wreck havoc.

How is it dangerous when nearly every team has at least one reliable answer for it? Great speed tier is often broken by most scarf users and priority in the tier, and Serperior only hits hard at +2 with its STAB move, Leaf Storm. Please elaborate your answer before stating how ''a mon is extremely dangerous''. Also, late game cleaning was stated on my post, and that definitely wouldn't make it a higher rank in my opinion.

 

[Anttya]

Serperior from A rank to B

Another mon who seems to be great on paper but not that much on practice. Although it can work as a great late game cleaner on its own, it actually doesn't handle as much types effectively as an A rank mon should (lots of checks and counters on most types). Besides, it requires a bit more support to work in a reliable way, thanks to its subpar special attack and poor coverage, which often forces it to have at least one boost to hit hard and deal considerable damage with the moves it has. Furthermore, it faces competition with Celebi and Whimsicott, thanks to their movepool and the overall utility they bring to every team, which tends to be just as useful to what Serperior brings, if not more. It still works very well on several situations (late game cleaner as I stated and also with some sort of surprise factor along Mirror Coat and other support moves), but it doesn't perform as well as A rank mons do at most.

I talked w/ Vid about this, and we disagree.

Serp's main selling point is its speed and potential to break common cores such as Psychic which usually gives Grass a lot of trouble. After a Leaf Storm, it can actually 1HKO most Dragon types w/ Pulse because of its high speed and if you choose HP Rock / Ground / Fire you're able to check threats like Zard-Y, Heatran, and Scizor respectively. The last move offers a lot of utility as well, Taunt to break teams that rely on recovery / status (such as the Normal core), Glare to paralyze switchins and make it easier for the next mon to sweep, or just Giga / Synth for longevity. Granted Scarf mons do revenge it, but Serp's main role is a wallbreaker and it does it very well. It may face competition w/ Celebi and Whimsi, but their roles on a team are completely different. (Unless if you're talking about offensive Celebi / Whimsi)

So yeah, keeping it at A

Tagging Anttya to dont forget to update the vr

Soon™

 

[juleocesar]

I talked w/ Vid about this, and we disagree.

Serp's main selling point is its speed and potential to break common cores such as Psychic which usually gives Grass a lot of trouble. After a Leaf Storm, it can actually 1HKO most Dragon types w/ Pulse because of its high speed and if you choose HP Rock / Ground / Fire you're able to check threats like Zard-Y, Heatran, and Scizor respectively. The last move offers a lot of utility as well, Taunt to break teams that rely on recovery / status (such as the Normal core), Glare to paralyze switchins and make it easier for the next mon to sweep, or just Giga / Synth for longevity. Granted Scarf mons do revenge it, but Serp's main role is a wallbreaker and it does it very well. It may face competition w/ Celebi and Whimsi, but their roles on a team are completely different. (Unless if you're talking about offensive Celebi / Whimsi)

So yeah, keeping it at A



Soon™

Well, about Celebi and Whimsi, I was really referring about their offensive approaches (the former acts as a great wincon vs Poison teams and has a really nice coverage with Earth Power, Psychic, Dazzling Gleam and perharps even Hidden Power, also having some really solid stats, while the latter checks Fighting, Dragon, and Dark mons really effectively and makes better use of Stun Spore to support its allies). On my own experience, Serperior doesn't add as much as these two and you are still getting walled by ton of stuff depending on which set you are actually running. For example, if you choose Hidden Power Fire, then Heatran is still going to be an issue, and with this, we can include lots of other common threats like Zapdos, Victini, Chansey/Blissey (even with Taunt, Seismic Toss still wears it down), and so on.

Also, as you gave Dragon as example, Whimsicott still seems to be far more useful for that. Dragonite has priority Extreme Speed, and you'll have a way harder time using Leaf Storm to boost up your special attack, and same applies for Steel on most ocasions, thanks to their resistances to Grass. Furthermore, both of those types will often outspeed and check you regardless of how much you'll be wallbreaking them thanks to their offensive variants which are way more common in the current metagame.

Furthermore, the answers most teams use against it are common on nearly every team and aren't really ''centralized'' at all because they add a lot to each team and don't just beat Serperior. Here's a list about check/counters/answers every type commonly carries against Serperior (I considered +2 cases at most since no skilled player is expected to let Serperior get +4 or +6 with Leaf Storm)

List

Electric - Zapdos, Magnezone (HP Fire doesn't OHKO if it is at full health, even +2), Manectric
Water - Azumarill (Sap Sipper), Tentacruel, Volcanion
Fire - Heatran (if Hidden Power Fire), Charizard Y (this thing takes only 50% from dragon pulse at +2), Victini, Arcanine, etc.
Fairy - Togekiss, Klefki (twave + screens says hi)
Ice - Weavile, Mamoswine (ice shard), Kyurem-Black (scarf), Cloyster (sash, Ice shard)
Rock - Mega Aggron
Steel - Heatran (if hidden power fire); Skarmory (if hidden power ground)
Poison - Mega-Venusaur, Crobat, Scolipede, Drapion and lot others
Flying - Togekiss, Zapdos, Char-Y, Tornadus, Thundurus-I
Ground - Mamoswine, Excadrill (sand rush)
Dark - Mandibuzz, Weavile, Hoopa-Unbound (scarf)
Bug - Volcarona, Heracross, Scizor (if HP Ground)
Normal - Chansey, Blissey, Pidgeot, Ditto
Fighting - Hawlucha (can switch in Leaf Storm as long as it is still +0), Medicham-Mega (fake out + bullet punch deals solid damage and kills if weakened), Heracross (scarf), Keldeo (scarf), Terrakion (scarf)
Ghost - Chandelure, Hoopa-C (Assault Vest/Choice Scarf)
Psychic - Victini, Jirachi (doesn't get hit hard by any of the hidden powers, scarf flinches it to death), Meloetta (Assault Vest), Hoopa-Unbound
Dragon - Dragalge (Dragon Pulse has a small chance to OHKO assuming it switches in Leaf Storm), Latios (scarf), Dragonite (extremespeed, multiscale, etc), Latias, Hydreigon (if scarf), Goodra
Grass - Mega Venusaur, Breloom (mach punch), Whimsicott (Stun Spore, Encore on Dragon Pulse), Ferrothorn (if Hidden Power Ground)

Do note that several types (mostly Rock, Ground and Water), might not handle Serperior nicely even with the mentioned mons because of how Leaf Storm super effective those types, but other types tend to handle it fine in overall.

 

[Crimson Torrent]

Serperior from A rank to B

Another mon who seems to be great on paper but not that much on practice. Although it can work as a great late game cleaner on its own, it actually doesn't handle as much types effectively as an A rank mon should (lots of checks and counters on most types). Besides, it requires a bit more support to work in a reliable way, thanks to its subpar special attack and poor coverage, which often forces it to have at least one boost to hit hard and deal considerable damage with the moves it has. Furthermore, it faces competition with Celebi and Whimsicott, thanks to their movepool and the overall utility they bring to every team, which tends to be just as useful to what Serperior brings, if not more. It still works very well on several situations (late game cleaner as I stated and also with some sort of surprise factor along Mirror Coat and other support moves), but it doesn't perform as well as A rank mons do at most.

I have to agree with Juleo on this. Serperior has been very lack luster. It has a good speed tier and some decent support with glare and taunt, and then of course the contrary leaf storm, but there are so many 'mons that can put an end to it and Celebi and Whimsicott really do offer a lot more.

Serperior deals a pathetic amount of damage for something sitting at +2 and hitting for stab base 130. It normally takes at least 2 leaf storms to really get it going, but even then, like Juleo had mentioned, there are so many 'mons that can still counter it.

I can't see it breaking psychic. Hoopa-U and Victini individually are enough to break serp, but add on mega-medi's fake out/bullet punch damage, the ever more common trick rooms, Jirachi, Latios, and Mega Latias, etc. Serp really can't offer much. Even at +2, Dpulse or hp fire isn't doing much to those 'mons either.

Also, Celebi and Whimsicott's rolls aren't very different from Serperiors. They're both used as offensive pressures more often than not on Grass. Whimsicott as an offensive support and celebi with the wide move pool. They both tend to do a better job too.

Most of all, when you compare its usefulness to something like Whimsicott, Cradily, and Breloom, it doesn't come close. B rank seems much more fitting to me.

 

[6ti]

Landorus-T to S Rank on Flying

I think that Lando-t does so many roles so well on flying that it can't be ignored and left in A rank. Its defensive typing allows for neutrality to rock and an immunity to electric helping a lot vs Victini's bolt strikes and Terrakion's Stone Edges. Intimidate and access to u-turn makes it the perfect pivot. Lando usually is scarfed or defensive, but a double dance set is also somewhat popular. Intimidate helps wall mons like terrakion, even on the less bulky sets.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off/Superpower

-1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 118-141 (36.9 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Also, this:
-1 252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 178-211 (55.7 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Scarf landorus still lives a -1 V-Create, and either outspeeds and ohkos next turn or forces a switch.

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Running rocks on a bulky lando allows skarmory to run spikes instead of stealth rocks, and it's neutral to fire, the only skarm weakness that isn't covered by the electric immunity. Skarmory in turn provides a neutrality to water and ice, landorus's only weaknesses.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

+2 Speed with adamant allows it to outspeed scarf base 120s which you'll never see and dishes out more damage. This set helps tremendously against rock, which gives flying a hard time otherwise. Cradily is basically setup bait because it hardly touches lando, and after both dances it can solo rock.

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 399-469 (106.1 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Double Dance Landorus-T can also set up a Rock Polish on Mega Diancie, and sweep from there.
Refer to the scarf Victini calc, it can also set up on it after Lando Intimidates it, then can solo fire. It can also obviously set up on a Kyurem-Black locked into Fusion Bolt, either SD or RP depending on what you think they'll switch into, and sweep from there. This set helps particularly well with these two types.

In conclusion, I think that the options Landorus-Therian offers to flying are too much to pass up and it should be moved to S rank.