The reason I think curse influenced gsc meta more than spikes is because curse poses more of an overall threat than spikes. Almost every team is built to deal with curselax in some way, or curse heracross/tyranitar/rhydon. things like growl miltank and charm umbreon are used solely for this purpose. phazers are often used to bail you out if you allow your opponent to get in one too many curses.In GSC you have Rest (the game-defining move that totally shapes not only OU, but basically every GSC tier) followed by Spikes/Explosion (the two main offensive/stall breaking tactics of GSC OU). So yeah, Spikes is the only move of these three introduced in GSC, so you have a winner.
Off the top of my head #4 and #5 would probably be a tossup between Roar/WW and Curse. So in a list of only moves that were introduced in GSC, Curse would likely come second.
Wrap is not a 415 Base Power attack. It's effectively a 45 Base Power attack with 85% accuracy and 100% flinch chance if it hits, that can also be used as a poor man's U-Turn.*** = An important glitch made it important- Clamp*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was a good move for Closyter.
- Fire Spin*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was a good move for Fire-types.
- Wrap*** = Wrap-mechs were too bugged that this was an almost flawless 415BP+ attack.
this is simply a moronic statement. if this is the conclusion you came to, then we're clearly on different levels.Since Curseskarm stalemates growl miltank, then curse = growl
you're definitely missing the entire scope of the argument. curselax was great at one point, sure, but also during that time, blissey was #2 and alakazam held a top 5 spot. that alone makes the historical argument not hold much water.Stop right here. Are you honestly saying that the word "Curselax" doesn't hold any weight in shaping the GSC metagame?
That set alone made GSC.
You're going to have a hard time denying it.
But you already did. Now back it up.I'm not gonna discuss Wrap here
what you stated is true, but what you're implying is false. spikes is every bit as dangerous, if not more dangerous against offensive teams.I agree that cursers are less effective than spikes against pure stall teams. but most people aren't willing to spend 500+ turns for a win
this is an unfair argument. you never have to specifically "counter" curse, wherein you generally have to specifically account for spikes. countering curse is a general byproduct to teambuilding, i.e. you cannot say phazers are run for cursers; they're every bit there for reasons as ptrappers, spikes/toxic shuffling, scouting, growth, baton passing, etc. in fact, it's pretty safe to even argue that growl isn't run specifically for curse, since there's a definite p-hazing aspect to it against all physical attackers.If a team is built to counter spikes and not curse, it will lose many battles, but if a team can counter cursing and not spikes, it can still hold its own ground quite well.
no offense, but this is why i'm me, and you're you.However you want to take it, it's mostly a matter of opinion and experience. I'm probably just biased because I never used spikes, or a rapid spinner, except on the odd fun team.
There are a lot of teams without Curse. Lot of teams doesn't run Curselax or Machamp. But, you can also find Curse for strategical reasons on things like Skarmory and Steelix. That's why I like Curse. It can be used for different reasons.Oh, yeah, about GSC's most important move, if we discard the moves of the first generation, I'm still insisting with Curse, just because you CAN'T find a team without a Curser, but you CAN find more than the 50% of times teams without Spikes, and even when we don't consider that, with a Spinner you can make Spikes pretty much useless
Psychic is not that good. Jynx is better with it, but Blizzard/Lovely Kiss are still its best moves. Starmie rarelly runs Psychic. Alakazam is not a staple, and is replaceable on almost every team (I mean, Alakazam doesn't change too much the metagame without its existence).But as game shapping move, Psychic is the most important move, without it, OU could be totally, but totally different, Psy dudes are not that strong with just Psybeam.
Psychic is only not that good because of other psychics and chansey.Psychic is not that good. Jynx is better with it, but Blizzard/Lovely Kiss are still its best moves. Starmie rarelly runs Psychic. Alakazam is not a staple, and is replaceable on almost every team (I mean, Alakazam doesn't change too much the metagame without its existence).
Exeggutor is the only one that is a staple and need Psychic to be usefull. But I found out that when I play with it, 3 out of 5 battles I don't even use it. Still, Sleep Powder and Explosion are better moves than Psychic.