At Glance
All of BW, I have been playing with some sort of offensive team, whether it be sun, sand or rain. In addition, I have noticed that stall teams always seemed to have the upper hand no matter what play style I used. The idea seemed solid, pack up a whole bunch of defensive pokemon with hazards, stall around and you win. I always figured if I where to use a stall team it would be toxic stall, but aside from that, I did not give it much thought. It started when I was using a bulky offensive sand team that was not doing so hot, so I spent a good week going around and reading a bunch of RMTs so scout for some potential solutions to my problems. Between here and there, I stumbled upon Kevin Garrett’s Stall Team, and this stuck with me:
For battling strategy, when I play a game of Pokémon I like to have the advantage. A lot of times you hear players talking about needing better prediction. My style in DPP does not demand prediction. If I execute properly I will have the advantage. Having a poor team matchup will result in me having to execute at a higher level. To look at it another way, if you need to predict every move then you don't have the advantage. You are just guessing. By executing at a high level you can know what you are doing because it is less reliant on what move your opponent makes. Then it comes down to moving according to best move your opponent can possibly make. If they move that way, you will maintain the advantage. If they do something else, it is not the best move they could have made anyway and doesn't change the tide of the battle.
I have always been really, really, bad at prediction. I know its talking about the DP generation, but stall hasn't changed that much. So, if stall required much less prediction, it seems like a solid play style for me. So, with that, I set out on a mission to stall.
In Depth
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Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 40 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam
Well as I said, if its going to be stall, might as go all the way with toxic stall. Sure I could use come sort of Roserade or Nidoqueen nonsense, but why do that then I could have a toxic spiker and rapid spinner, all in one. I did not go for Forretress because, it sucks with almost no offensive presence, and Tentacruel gets rid of other toxic spikes, by simply just switching in. In addition, I suppose it has some sort of synergy as bulky water for the rest of my team. I sometimes use it to take down fighting types, something that Forretress cannot do.
Trait: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 40 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam
As for the move set, the evs maximize the defensive bulk for it, so Tentacruel can take some weaker hits like Bronzong’s earthquake, and in a pitch allows me to check various fighting types. 40 speed allows me to kill of Gliscor running the standard 72 speed spread, because otherwise, Gliscor kills Tentacruel. Surf might seem like an odd choice for bulky water, but seeing as toxic spikes as usually on the field, burns are uneeded. I really do not need burns that bad on this team, with 2 physical walls, so the extra power of surf is preferred. Ice beam is a great move for dragon and grass types. I chose liquid ooze over rain dish mainly so Ferrothorn does not counter me; in fact, I counter it then, so it gives me a great chance to use toxic spikes on over 20% of teams. Rain dish is tempting though, if I find my-self having any more problems with drizzle, I might switch it.
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
Chansey is the best special wall in the game, so you can see why it is on this team. Chansey’s set is standard, wish, and pass. Seismic toss is necessary for consistent damage, and protect is great for stalling, which this team does. Toxic is the only debatable move here, but I need it for killing off a lot of pokemon the levitate such and Thundurus and Latias. Besides, what would I replace it with, this team does not need paralysis support and softboiled is meh. Anyway, the evs give me about the same defenses as a Bold 252/252 Blissey, factoring leftovers of course (its .2% weaker but who cares). The remaining investment goes to maximize Chansey’s specially defensive bulk, which is frankly absolutely amazing.
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
Skarmory works great on this team as Chansey’s backup for physical hits. The evs are a little off standard, but the speed evs on the standard set are just for Wobbuffet. While testing this I saw a Wobbuffet literally once, and it has no interest in taking down Skarmory, so I just went with full out physical defense. Outside of that, the set is standard, roost for recovery, whirlwind to phase, spikes to set up, and brave bird for some damage if I need it. Spikes and whirlwind are the crux of any Skarmory set, allowing me to mix around a team and get multiple hits of hazards up as well are stop physical threats from sweeping my team. Magnezone isn't on like every team right now, so I can use leftovers safley, and Gliscor acts as a secondary physical wall if I need it.
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 208 Def / 56 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
If you have not guessed, Gliscors main function is to wall physical attackers like Conkeldurr and Terrakion easily. Well, my Gliscor set is mainly a spin off the standard Defensive Set with a few minor changes.
First off the evs give Gliscor a poison heal number, so I heal more health every turn, while still being more defensive then the standard set. 56 Speed evs allow Gliscor to outspeed nuetral 252 Breloom and Politoed, because honestly, the only Tyranitars that are Jolly with max speed, are dragon dance ones, and those are extremely uncommon, and have dragon dance anyway. I decided to ditch toxic, since this was a toxic stall team anyway, although I ran this set on a regular team in the past, because without taunt the Defensive set gets raped by Conkeldurr, and toxic is of little use. Said Conkeldurr is the reason I have taunt, and it provides excellent utility on various physical threats, and is crippling to whatever they send in. Protect is a great move to stall out a lot of pokemon and gain health in the process. Earthquake is obviously my stab move of choice, while ice fang is great for breaking those balloons on Excadrill and Terrakion, and it hits Dragonite and Salamence hard, finally freeze hax has got me out of a pickle a few times.
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar
- Recover
Once again, this is pretty much the standard calm mind set up. Max HP is for bulk, and maximum speed is to speed tie Latios, and out speed pokemon like Terrakion. Recover is needed to heal after taking a few hits while calm minding or just to get rid of some passive Rotom-W damage and dragon pulse is a good stab attack. Roar is the crux of this set, allowing me to roar away calm mind users and threats that would otherwise be a problem, aswell as mixing up my opponent’s team and racking up more hazards damage.
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
The evs should be simple, I need high special defenses to deal with Volcanora, Latias, and Mew, and so I maximized them. Lava plume might seem like an off choice for an toxic stall team, but fact is Heatran lures out a lot of pokemon immune to toxic spikes, and Heatran proceeds to burn them. Protect is a great move here to stall out and gain some leftovers recovery, and stealth rocks is a needed hazard on this team or else Rotom-W + Scizor can be a problem. Besides, there aren’t many other choices aside from toxic which Heatran doesn’t need (although Toxicing Rotom-W would be nice).
Danger Lists
These pokemon are a pain in the ass that I can’t deal with normally.
Espeon -This is one weasel mother fucker. Generally though I would just put it at Doexys level for its annoyance. But Espeon + baton pass teams is pretty much a death sentence for this team, as literally I have nothing to stop it.
Sigilyph -My only chance it to taunt it with Gliscor or win some absurd clam mind war with Latias and roar. But if its the last pokemon, I am pretty much screwed, my only good option is to PP stall at that point, good thing its really uncommon.
The pokemon which can and have given this team a problem in the ideal situation.
Deoxys-S - I usually use Tentacruel to check it, but the uncommon pychoboost version can give me hell and then it proceeds to set up a crud load of hazards. But thankfully outside of that, it can't do much to this team; superpower on Chansey only does a laughable 45%.
Dragonite - Special versions are walled pretty hard by Blissey; it’s the physical versions which can be a problem. Usually Skarmory or Gliscor is a pretty solid switch in though, but a Dragonite with fire punch and ice punch can hilariously rip this team apart, luckily that’s very rare. Usually the problem comes in the end game after its counters are worn down, although in emergency situations, Latias can check it.
Jellicent -Ah this is a pain, my best and only bet is to get toxic spikes up with Tentacruel and then stall it out. In theory, it could switch in after just one layer of spikes, and be set to wall my team; I have yet to see it though. Usually it gets worn down by hazards if toxic spikes are down, then I can check it with Skarmory or Latias. If played at top efficiently it can and will be the last thing left, then I just PP stall it.
Gyarados - Stealth rocks damage is usually the death of this thing, and Latias walls it pretty hard unless it has ice fang, and then I can switch in with Tentacruel. Although Dragon Pulses only do about 35%, so if Latias is worn down I can and will be swept.
Haxorus - Skarmory can wall it, although its 3HKOed, generally though good ole stalling will be about to wear the thing down. If worse come to worse, I can check it with Latias.
Kingdra -Mixed versions can be a problem, especially with rain support (rain dance.) But I should be able to stall it out or a rain boost if needed, and it goes down pretty easily if toxic spikes are up. Speaking of that, Tentacruel is a pretty good switch in.
Lucario -One pain in the ass, Skarmory can whirl away most versions, but only once. Tentacruel can take a hit and surf it if I need to, and Latias can work if I need to if its weak enough so I can kill it off with Dragon Pulse. As a last ditch effort, I can always sack pokemon for life orb damage, sad but it sometimes is my only choice. Of course if it lacks ice punch, Gliscor walls it all day.
Magnezone -Because of have Skarmory of course, with the right support it can wreck my team, it’s not that common at the moment just yet, and I can live without skarmory if I need to. If this things usage increases any more, I might just run shed shell though. As far as the pokemon goes, Heatran and Chansey wall it pretty bad.
Reuniclus -Calm mind is devastating for this team, so I always assume it and switch to Latias, its a Calm Mind set though, then I just switch to Chansey as it tries to shadow ball Latias. In theory, a calm mind Reunicles with shadow ball and psycho shock could wreck me, but that combination is virtually nonexistent.
Porygon2 -Wow, this is an annoying pokemon, I would like to say "toxic spikes man," but good players switch into Gliscor and make that an advantage. For this reason, when I see this thing, I try to avoid using Gliscor. Chansey is a solid counter though, as with Heatran.
BTW: this thing fucks Gliscor so bad, someone should really make a Porygon2 + Breloom team, heck I might do it in the future
Salamence -Mixed Versions are more then a pain, they are a genuine threat for this team, fortunately it won't last long with stealth rocks and life orb damage. Tentacruel actually is a pretty solid check as it takes earthquake. If it’s not mixed though, Skarmory and Gliscor are solid checks.
Scrafty- If I see this thing around I am forced to keep Skarmory alive just to deal with it. Although like most pokemon that are on my watch list, Gliscor can deal with it if it lacks ice punch, Tentacruel and Latias can check it is I need them too.
Thundurus -Chansey can beat it because of toxic, but the rare lum berry version can probably sweep my whole team. Once toxiced, even if Chansey dies, I just stall it out with protect, and Latias and HP-ice Thundurus speed tie, so thats a semi-check right there.
BTW: this thing fucks Gliscor so bad, someone should really make a Porygon2 + Breloom team, heck I might do it in the future
How I deal with various other pokemon.
Aerodactyl -Gliscor and Skarmory wall it pretty hard, it still hits like a truck though, so I toss out whichever one I need the least to deal with it.
Breloom -When I seem this thing on a team, I make sure to lead with Gliscor just to get my poison up. After that, Gliscor is a 100% wall, but even without him, Latias can also be a counter if I need one.
Blissey -Gliscor walls all sets without much problem at all, unless it has ice beam or some other crazy move. Skarmory is also a good pokemon to deal with it; toxic spikes are very useful if I don't have though pokemon too.
Bronzong -Unfortunately Heatran can't 1HKO, but after a good stall war, it’s easily fodder. Skarmory and Blissey can nicely deal with it as well if I need to.
Celebi -Latias and Heatran are my main ways of dealing with it. If it’s anything but calm mind though, I like to use Chansey to deal with it, as thunder waves are annoying.
Chansey -Much like Blissey, Gliscor easily walls it.
Conkeldurr -My Gliscor set completely destroys this thing, and if I need to Skarmory and Latias can work to deal with the grumpy old man.
Darmanitan -Generally, Gliscor or Latias are pretty solid counters, but if I find that its just spamming flare blitz, then Heatran can come in and wall it pretty hard, and set up, which is its demise.
Deoxys-D -Gliscor seems like a pretty solid counter to most sets, and I have use Tentacruel to spin away any hazards it set up. It if uses cosmic power or something Heatran nicely walls, besides, it won't last long with toxic spikes around.
Dusclops - Blocking my spins are you? Say hello to Chansey, Heatran, and Gliscor, btw, don't stand on those toxic spikes for too long.
Empoleon - Chansey walls this thing pretty bad.
Excadrill -With Gliscor + Skarmory, I can safely say this isn't a threat at all. Probably the worst thing it can do to this team, actually is rapid spinning
Ferrothorn -Gliscor taunts it and Heatran 1HKOed it.
Forretress -Rapid spinning are you? Have fun being 3HKOed by surf.
Gengar -Blissey can stall it out of focus blasts if needed, and then Heatran can safely come in. Tentacruel isn't a bad as a counter either.
Gliscor - Tentacruel nicely outspeeds, Skarmory easily dispatches it as well, and Latias can kill it off at low health.
Heatran -Chansey says hi, as does Tentacruel and Latias.
Heracross -Gliscor walls it pretty bad, Skarmory can work to if I have to use it.
Hippowdon - Skarmory is a solid counter, if it lacks ice fang, Gliscor is too, Tentacruel and Latias nicely check it.
Hydreigon -This thing can't touch Chansey, maybe a rare mixed set, but have fun being checked by Latias. Heatran can also work to great effect.
Infernape- Latias and Tentacruel wall it so bad.
Jirachi -Normally, Gliscor, Skarmory, and Heatran are solid checks. But the rare calm mind version makes me use Latias to deal with it, and then I just roar it out.
Jolteon -What can this do to Blissey, heck even Latias?
Kyurem -Unless it’s an incredibly rare mixed version, Chansey is a solid counter, and even then Latias can revenge.
Murkrow - Seems to be annoying, but Gliscor can probably PP stall it out of taunts, and then taunt it back or just roar is with something.
Ninetales - Heatran is a solid counter, as with Latias. Chansey can counter it too, but must be wary of the rare nasty plot Ninetails.
Landorus -Skarmory is a pretty solid counter, I try to avoid Gliscor because of HP-ice, but it can work if I feel it doesn't have it. Latias can always check it too.
Latias -Heatran totally counters it. If I need to though, Chansey can break its subs and toxic it with a bit of prediction for when it recovers. Although a few wrong predictions and Chansey is setup fodder.
Latios -Chansey is a solid counter, although trick can hurt in theory. Heatran can all most sets bar surf.
Lilligant -Heatran, Chansey, and Latias are all solid counters.
Machamp - Tenacruel and Skarmory beat it out.
Mamoswine - Skarmory says hello, Tentacruel can work if I need it to, as with Heatran, as 99% of the time it’s locked unto ice shard.
Metagross -Skarmory beat its out pretty easily, if it lacks ice punch Gliscor will also counter it.
Mienshao -Skarmory once again counters pretty easily, Tentacruel, as always can take a fighting hit, and if it lacks HP-ice, Gliscor can work.
Politoed - Chansey can switch in nicely, heal off damage, and stall it out. Latias and Tentacruel are generally solid checks too, unless it’s a rain stall team, Politoed is just fodder for toxic spikes.
Roserade -Roserade say hi to Chansey, Heatran, and Latias, and after that, don't might if Tentacruel stops by to suck up those toxic spikes.
Rotom-W - Chansey and Latias are solid counters, problem is it just switched out. If that’s starts happening, I switch to Heatran or something on a volt switch, and set up stealth rocks.
Sawsbuck -Gliscor and Skarmory are solid checks, Latias can work
too, although double edge versions can catch me off guard.
Scizor - Heatran, Gliscor, Tentacruel, and Gliscor deal with it handily.
Shaymin - Chansey deals with it pretty easily, Latias if I need to.
Smeargle - Gliscor deals with it pretty well as a lead, protect from spore, then taunt, and it’s not a problem.
Skarmory -Gliscor just comes in and taunts it, tentacruel spins away whatever, and then proceeds to fire off surfs after toxic spikes, which is about a 3HKO. It can't do shit to Chansey and Heatran too.
Snorlax -Skarmory and Gliscor can come in on any set, a few sets have fire punch though, so Gliscor is a bit safer.
Suicune -Latias roars it away, Chansey can toxic any versions without sub, and Suicune never has ice beam and substitute, and of course toxic spikes will be a problem for any Suicune.
Starmie - Blissey, but trick can be annoying though, Latias can also work too.
Swampert -Skarmory can come in on most sets, Latias can do the same just has to be wary of ice punch.
Tentacruel -Dam mother fucker sucks up my toxic spikes and spins away everything. My own tentacruel is the pokemon to suck up any toxic spikes, and Chansey and Latias counter it pretty handily.
Terakion - Skarmory can Gliscor deal with it pretty handily.
Tornadus -Chansey can beat it, although hammer arm versions can be a problem, Tentacruel can check it if I wish.
Tyranitar -Mix versions are anticipated, but Tentracruel fairs well against all versions, bar choice band or something weird, then Gliscor checks it.
Vaporeon -Tentacruel fodder much? Chansey can come in on almost any set.
Venusaur -Heatran and Latias deal with almost all versions easily.
Victini -Latias can deal with it pretty well, and Heatran can easily check it if it’s spamming v-generate.
Virizion -Skarmory deals with all physical versions, but they are a non threat, calm mind Virizion is where my problem would lie, but I have Latias to wall and roar it.
Volcarona - Heatran deal with most Volcanoras easily, but I always protect to see if it’s the rare hidden power ground version, and then proceed to stealth rocks and roar, effectively killing it. If it is an HP ground version, then Blissey should be able to deal with it, as it then can't recover.
Weavile -Skarmory, Heatran, and Tentacruel say hello.
Whimsicott -Gliscor and Tentacruel counters any set bar something weird. And even then, it lacks taunt usually, and Gliscor just taunts it, or I set up toxic spikes.
Xatu - Although it has the same ability as espeon, it’s almost never used on baton pass teams. Because of that, Heatran is usually a solid counter as it can wear it down with lava plume burns. Chansey is a solid counter too, but can't do much aside from PP stall roost out then kill it off with seismic toss.
Zoroark -Chansey totally walls it, Tentacruel and Latias can check it.
Zapdos -Zapdos, Heatran, and Latias are all solid counters.
too, although double edge versions can catch me off guard.
Some Notes
About no spin blocker: I foresee I will get quite a few comments about this. Fact is, Jellicent won’t do shit for this team, and rapid spinners aren’t that common. The most common ones are Starmie and Forretress. Starmie carrying rapid spin is even easier to deal with on this team, and Forretress is screwed by so many pokemon on my team.
Heatran: On paper this thing doesn’t look that great, but in battle is defiantly holds it weight. I know countering just Volcanora, Latias and Mew looks pretty silly, but they are pretty big threats to this team otherwise, also countering Scizor in this metagame, and having an end all solution to steel types is a pretty big deal.
Sleep Talking Gyrados?:Gyrados would seem to solve a lot of these teams’ problems, like Lucario and Scarfy and even phasing out Epseon. Unfortunately it can’t fit in anywhere aside from Gliscors or Skarmory’s slot. Gliscor stalling is just amazing on this team, so Skarmory might be worth considering, but switching it will leave me without spikes and a bit weaker to hyper offensive sand teams.
