Mega Bann is,unfortunately, a very predictable mon due to the fact that its only relyable attack move is poltergeist, a move who only works if your opponent's pokemon has an item.Considering how this meta is full of booster energy mons, that's a bit tough for mega bann.It can also just get worned down by stuff like toxic/leech seed.I'm not saying its a shitmon, but its not THAT good either.Yea it can be very annoying to more offensive teams, as it can almost always force a trade, but vs more bulkier structures it kinda flops.
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Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter R8
- Start date
Full stop I actually think Mban does quite good into booster energy pokemon, most booster mons that run BE are generally more offensive sweeper variants which can easily be forced out via encore/wisp, as your opponent doesn't want to give up the massive amounts of momentum that a free switch can show, as well as mban being able to just click dbond and threaten a trade. Mban in my experience struggles the most into pressure mons like corv due to its lacking pp on moves, meaning it can't do much in a match. (also chansey but that's a given)
Don't worry I will ;D
The problem is it's not really doing anything to them outside being annoying with encore (and that's assuming they set up to begin, because not all of them do). Having your one big attack be blanked by offensive pokemon is pretty disappointing and causes it to be a huge momentum sucker when it happens. The other thing with it is that, I feel like pro mban put far too much stock into Destiny Bond as this big deal that makes it worth using when I don't think so at all. You can get similar DB strats with something like Iron Valiant, which is useful in just about every game in some way, and then run another Mega (or ghost if you want *cough* Ceruledge *cough*). That and it's pretty easy to pressure mban into using DB early due to its tendency to get chipped by hazards or weaker attacks quickly, making it quite exploitable there as well.
Anyways I'd like to take a moment and highlight a pair of mons that are pretty good rn in conjunction with one another
Standalone, Luna is a pretty solid pokemon and one I think is underexplored (toxic protect to lure physical walls and check some special electrics for example is an idea I had), but the skull crushing strength it has on offensive sets is what everyone pays attention to, and for good reason. But one issue it always has is longevity that is hampered by hazards, rocky helmet and ferrothorn barbs, which makes it easier to contain even for slower teams. Whether taking cues from SV OU or just learning on their own, people are using Luna+Mola teams more and it's a really good pairing, the former covering for the latter's lack of longevity and giving it many more opportunities to break down the opponent. Even vs faster teams you can still see Luna getting a couple KOs if played right due to its bulk and Mola passing wishes, and vs bulky structures that can't easily punish Mola for wishing, it can be really strong. So on that note, what do people think about the pairing? Have you played against it? What are your strategies for dealing with it?
(btw not calling it broken at all in case it somehow seemed that way. Just wanted to highlight a strong pairing rn and spark discussion for fun).
that is called the c tier
I’d like to propose that we take action on Water Ogerpon. In my opinion it’s the one offensive threat that is unpleasant to play against. It’s kind of obnoxious to face and doesn’t really have any counters. It has checks but sometimes it can just brute force its way through bad match ups.
If Ferrothorn for example struggles to contain this thing, something might be up is what I am saying.
If Ferrothorn for example struggles to contain this thing, something might be up is what I am saying.
NOBODY POSTED AN AFD POST SO IMMA DO IT
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Cheese and Mega Banette: How is it in National Dex OU?
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
- The Beginning of Banette
- The Beginning Of Cheese
- The Merge.
- What It Is Now
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
Last edited:
fake news, i would never order a salad from mcdonaldsNOBODY POSTED AN AFD POST SO IMMA DO IT
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Cheese and Mega Banette: How is it in National Dex OU?
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
B) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
- The Beginning of Banette
- The Beginning Of Cheese
- The Merge.
- What It Is Now
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
I was gonna write an epic saga of a post about how we should free Lugia into OU with one awesome humor and dry sass (including how we should all stop using Toxapex and use Dewgong, a real water type that stops Lugia to a hilarious degree) and how it provides stability and checks about every threat in the metagame as part of an April fools joke.
hehe. Would have been fun to write.
hehe. Would have been fun to write.
thebestever543
I COULD BE BANNED!
The clock hasn’t struck 12 yet. Get to it
This makes me lose hope in the pokemon community even more.. Please never post again. Thanks!NOBODY POSTED AN AFD POST SO IMMA DO IT
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Cheese and Mega Banette: How is it in National Dex OU?
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
B) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
- The Beginning of Banette
- The Beginning Of Cheese
- The Merge.
- What It Is Now
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
This makes me gain hope in the pokemon community even more.. Please always post again. Thanks!NOBODY POSTED AN AFD POST SO IMMA DO IT
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Cheese and Mega Banette: How is it in National Dex OU?
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
B) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
- The Beginning of Banette
- The Beginning Of Cheese
- The Merge.
- What It Is Now
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
false information, this Mon is assNOBODY POSTED AN AFD POST SO IMMA DO IT
MODS THIS IS A JOKE PLS DONT INFRACT ME LMAO
about15guys lol
ngl i was going to post this for my like 400th post and it was going to be cool but april fools day works too
image is by about15guys as well
Cheese and Mega Banette: How is it in National Dex OU?
Table of Contents:
A) Banette and Cheese
B) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
- The Beginning of Banette
- The Beginning Of Cheese
- The Merge.
- What It Is Now
This marks the day me and the rest of Banette Bros step out. We have secretly been a group of followers, trying to make Mega Banette the ruler of this puny “metagame” known as NDOU. We have been working in the Smogon backchannels, using our MOB connections to garner support, funds, and to hire workers to join the cause of supporting this wonderful cause.
A) Banette and Cheese
1) Origins of Banette
But first... we must delve into the history of what has largely defined it this generation. King Banette A.K.A Destiny Bonder A.K.A. The Most Hated Mon Ever.
In fact, this story... this is what inspired the hit movie "Oppenheimer". The plot was directly stolen from this story, as the director of the movie clearly queued up some National Dex games, found this team, and became greatly enraged. In that state of anger, he stole the plot, making the movie that was a box office hit.
Twas a dark stormy night. As about15guys returns from his trip to Canada, sick to his stomach, he hears a lightbulb ding in his head. He hurriedly pulls out his laptop and quickly builds THE team. The team that kickstarted this entire journey. The team that made these "plebians" learn of the King himself. As he clenches in stomach, sleep deprived and sick, he finishes up his creation. Similar to Oppenheimer once he created the team, he was satisfied, stomach pain gone, fully energized, knowing that he would cause many on the National Dex Ladder the same gut-wrenching pain he suffered on this trip.
As about15guys carried on with his life, PokeaimMD, found the creation. He brushed the dust off of it, eyes gleaming. He knew what he would do with this monster. As he created a video, unaware of the repercussions this would have. As about15guys opened his laptop, opened Youtube, he saw it. He saw what PokeaimMD had done. He knew... NDOU was now doomed. NDOU was doomed to die with this parasite tagging along with it. He watched in horror as Mega-Banette rose to OU, stayed there, and continued to be one of the most used Pokemon. Similar to Oppenheimer, he saw his creation cause mass destruction, and regretted everything. As he helplessly told the people in the NDOU room that his Infestation Mega-Banette was bad, he realized, nothing could be done anymore. Now, about15guys is forever plagued with the guilt of causing the doom of National Dex OU. Fully accepting his role as the “villain” in the eyes of everybody in National Dex OU, he created Banette Interprises, a company that was a front. This group aimed to bring Banette to world domination.
2) The Beginning of Cheese
This is where I, amstan, Cheese Consortium CEO, come in. When I was born, I was unable to speak, born without clothes, and almost 2 feet tall. I was a loser. However, once I was able to speak, my first and second words were “Dad” and “Mom” because I am not a fucking weirdo. However, you know what my 17th word was? “Cheese”. Was this because I was fat when I was little? No. That is irrelevant. I was born to play “Cheese” in NDOU. My existence was made in order to bring cheese to domination. I began such ventures. The Cheese Consortium became a known name. My stocks were rising. However, Big Zuckerberg was jealous of my success. He crashed my stock prices. I was in the mud. I swore I would make Big Zuck pay for his misdeeds against me, but what was I to do? I was in rags, on the street, barely being able to support myself.
3) The Merge
Banette Interprises... well, their stocks tanked. They went from top of the world with me to shambles. Worse than penny stocks. However, on one fateful day, we met in a McDonalds in the City “NDFL”. Brutal Buzzards Street. I was ordering a Bacon McDouble and he was ordering a salad. As I saw him, I knew it was him. Banette Interprises CEO about15guys. I walked up to him, proposing a deal. We merge. Our forces alone were not able to defeat Big Zuck and the Smogonate. However, with the Cheese Consortium and Banette Interprises, we could beat them. We would win. We merged, and created, Banette Bros. I agreed to work in the shadows, and let Banette take all the credit, which was deserved considering the debt I was in, was worth it. Our first order of business was incorporating Banette into the Cheese Consortium. After days of hard work, we created something that would make a legacy.
4) Banette and Cheese Now
In the headquarters of Banette Bros, after creating a perfect masterpiece, we noticed our stocks were not truly rising yet. Banette was not dominating this metagame yet. It was there we started to innovate. Gone were the days of Jirachi. Now were the days of Acupressure. In the coming month, we masterly expanded into Acupressure. In fact, we even delved into the subcategory of just Pressure. These 2 things combined with external help from Non Banette-Bro @hidinflames, Banette was able to establish footing in the tier, signaling the start of much more. In fact, Banette made waves this tour. Banette was so feared, they had to call in AGENT OBSTAGOON. Agent Obstagoon was made specially to counter Banette.
2) Kraft Mac and Cheese Building Guide
This part is not too much of a shitpost. I will not be covering like tr and stuff because that's lame and boring and one dimensional
Step 1) Add a Mega-Banette
Mega Banette is practically required. It is able to deter sweepers, guarantee a one for one trade, which is 99% of the time better for you. If you are able to cripple or remove a key target, you are able to win with your cheese wincons which will be discussed later. Mega Banette is the perfect mon. It can break, provides great utility, and clears the way for your glorious cheese mons.
Step 2) Decide wincons and where you want to go.
Some good wincons are mons that can, with enough luck or a good enough mu, hax/be stupid enough to win a mu with a small amount of support. Some examples include Togekiss + Jirachi, Suicune, Acupressure, Revival Blessing Banette or any other strategy that greatly relies on RNG and/or matchup luck.
Step 3) Support
1)Toxic Stalling/Spamming Residual Damage
Some good examples are Salazzle and Glimmora. Salazzle can easily Toxic at least one mon and scare off annoying Ferrothorn with Taunt. Glimmora can be used as a replacement for Salazzle or simply to easily set Toxic Spikes while racking good passive damage with Spiky Shield and Rocky Helmet. Some other options include Alomomola, who can provide good healing support for any other supports you may have. Gliscor is able to stack up various hazards, absorb knock offs and any other attacks, and crucially, provides a ground type. Tapu Koko generally is a giant threat towards these teams as they lack a good Electric resist/immunity. Last but not the least, Ferrothorn is also a great option. It can spread great passive damage with Leech Seed, Toxic, can Knock Off crucial items, lays hazards, and spreads amazing passive damage.
2)PP Stalling/ Locking
Not sure how to put the second one, but a great example of it is Scarf Cresselia. Cresselia is an amazing option as it provides a Psychic resist for another Big Threat in Tapu Lele. Scarf Cresselia also provides crucial speed control, being able to outspeed slower targets and either trick it’s scarf to make it easier to deal with, or Neutralize with thunder wave. Ice beam should be the used attack on this set as you can catch some lando and dnite off guard. Suicune fits great for the PP stalling role however, as it can PP stall many mons and set up the win conditions. Corviknight is a decent option as well, naturally being able to check Tapu Lele, able to farm Gliscor, and a very deadly wincon on its own. Kyurem can be used, but the Dragon Dance set is much better late game as a deadly wincon when all moves are low on pp, or the Pokemon that can hit it's supereffectively are gone.
This guide is obviously very incomplete, as there are many types of cheese and rng based strategies, but these are the few I believe to be at least somewhat usable and probably the most fun.
APRIL FOOLS!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-2094009292-hupvmr9v4u9cjvxrjvgtwjzslcj4sripw
^ my proof
ggez no re
This is literally ambipom again. A mon that looks like it has great tools in a tier to deal great damage, but is really bad and used by noobs.
Please stop using mega banette, it's not the shit.
Mega Bannette is definitely viable if piloted by a strong player and has seen recent success in high level tournament play such as during USA vs World.
While that is fair, I do wonder how high level the player has to be to do well with mega banette. Because if its just you have to be good enough to play around its weaknesses a bit, then I was wrong. However, if its you have to be a god at playing and have to overcompensate to do well with it, then that is questionable how good it really is.
Shitposting wasn't really moderated during april fools but now fun police is back - as always, keep in mind that one liners/posts that do not really contribute to the discussion are strictly moderated and will be deleted
this is literally 1984
anyways (to escape big brother deletion), what are y’all’s thoughts on Mega Gyarados in this meta?
THE GOOD
-> Basically 6-0s Stall.
-> Not deadweight into offense either.
-> Decent on screens.
THE BAD
-> a bit too slow to do much imo
-> easily offensively revenge killed if it’s not setup past +1
1yr
formerly I❤BerryKind
This Mon is being gatekept it’s broken asf it’s just annoying how common iron valiant which cooks it with speed booster p badly but if you use your mega properly u can outplay like a boss
Kinda goated on Tapu koko screens HO with Iron Valiant and Volcarona but yeah the speed tier kinda sucks. Idk if its easily revenge killed tho cuz only Iron Valiant and Iron Boulder can consistently beat it at +1+1, the latter being a giga fraud, but what BerryKind said is true just outplay lmfao.
also it beats mega banette which is always a W in my book
I agree on Mega Gyarados. The best set is taunt, Dragon Dance, Waterfall and Crunch but I can see use for substitute and earthquake.
Another mega wanna highlight is Mega Mawile. This thing needs a lot of support to function but it does smash through a lot of staples as it can use its massive attack stat and good coverage to take things down. My best results are the all out attack set with Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Fire Fang and Ice Punch. From my experience this hits basically everything hard and allows you to brute force past most things. Flawed but usable.
Another mega wanna highlight is Mega Mawile. This thing needs a lot of support to function but it does smash through a lot of staples as it can use its massive attack stat and good coverage to take things down. My best results are the all out attack set with Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Fire Fang and Ice Punch. From my experience this hits basically everything hard and allows you to brute force past most things. Flawed but usable.
As the National Dex's native sun player, i can approve this as evidence
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It’s not quite that simple; it’s not just a hazard machine if that were all it did it wouldn’t be that good in the current meta. It’s also a much sturdier check into things like Darkrai, Raging Bolt (and other electrics like zap and Koko, as Glisc and lando fear hp ice), Lele (if it is using psychic moves which 90% of the time it will be), and Tornt, much more than all the other grounds in the tier. It also doesn’t just “die” that easily, it has enough longevity to check the things it needs to especially when played well. Whirlwind is also good to stop setup sweepers like Volc and Tornt, not just to rack up hazard chip. Hazards do help it and it is a good setter but it doesn’t do just that and then die, it plays an actual defensive role in a game if you play it right.