New OU List (October 2009)

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

All this 'OMG Rhyperior will destroy UU!' talk is quite laughable really, but not that surprising as it has been going on for many months now. IMO, Rhyperior's Solid Rock + slightly better stats overall than Rhydon will be enough to make it a more viable and attractive choice that will surely find its niche in UU, but nothing more.

What interests me the most is what Rhyperior set will be the more efficient wallbreaker? Will it be a simple CB set (with Qwilfish or a faster Grass type waiting in the wings) or Swords Dance + Passho Berry, or even something else entirely? What is slightly disheartening is the fact that Rhyperior needs both SR and one layer of Spikes to OHKO Milotic at +2 without a boosting item, as well as pile on serious pressure and mindgames with the Choice Band set. You can still force Milo to Haze, but it is still much harder to break without both hazards.

 

[Aldaron]

Why wouldn't a Swords Dance Rhyperior carry a Life Orb, Lemmiwinks? With Life Orb and Jolly nature (the +speed is actually beneficial if passing Speed / Rock Polishing with Rhyperior) I am getting +2 Rhyperior ohkos Milotic (max / max +def versions) 66.67% of the time with Earthquake, and everytime with Stealth Rock.

I'm asking this specifically because you mention "without a boosting item." It seemed curious why a Swords Dance / primarily offensive Rhyperior wouldn't carry a Life Orb enough to at least talk about it generally.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Why wouldn't a Swords Dance Rhyperior carry a Life Orb, Lemmiwinks? With Life Orb and Jolly nature (the +speed is actually beneficial if passing Speed / Rock Polishing with Rhyperior) I am getting +2 Rhyperior ohkos Milotic (max / max +def versions) 66.67% of the time with Earthquake, and everytime with Stealth Rock.

I'm asking this specifically because you mention "without a boosting item." It seemed curious why a Swords Dance / primarily offensive Rhyperior wouldn't carry a Life Orb enough to at least talk about it generally.

Because Milotic always outruns and OHKOs Rhyperior with Surf unless it is holding a Passho Berry, and is a stall team staple. If you are passing speed then sure, but I was talking about a wallbreaker version in particular, who won't be receiving BP boosts.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Umbreon's back in UU, as I believe it should stay (In my opinion, at least). The last I've heard of its use into OU was because it was a Latias counter, but I still haven't seen convincing calculations or logs of an Umbreon countering a Latias.

Wonder how UU'll fare without Roserade in its wings. That, and what others said 'bout Rhyperior raping the shit out of the said metagame.

 

[akarias]

If you EV it right roserade can survive metagross's MM+BP and still outspeed smeargle. Now I haven't done the calculations, but in that case she should be able to survive dragonite's attacks, especially since she has such high spdef. Plus since Dnite doesn't carry SR you can just switch, too.

I'm just curious what in UU can wall the subperior set. Then again UU has a much harder time giving rhyperior SS, which is by far one of his biggest advantages.

 

[B-Lulz]

Wow Hera and Cress were insanely close dropping...thanks for showing us how the tiers are sorted, I don't see Hera or Cresselia lasting long now though.

 

[-Terywj-]

Aww I was kinda hoping for Heracross to make it into UU. :P

But Alakazam isn't doing much and really won't be doing much either.
Rhyperior is definitely worth using now that he's viable in the UU environment, and as we all can see Umbreon just got lucky and popped in OU for a while.

Glad to see Roserade is gone, and Yanmega will be soon too.

-Terywj

 

[scorchedsky]

If you EV it right roserade can survive metagross's MM+BP and still outspeed smeargle.

+Speed smeargle hits 273, so you'd want your Roserade at 274 speed (impossible with +speed, so figure 275), which leaves you 374 EVs to play with. Maxing def and throwing the rest into HP gives you maximum physical defense, so you're at 291/209. MM from 401 attack metagross (standard leadgross) does 71.13 min + 28.87 min from BP, which is weirdly enough exactly 100...

Actually, going without the +speed and hitting 274 lets you survive if meta gets 85's on both damage rolls...still, doesn't seem like Roserade is beating leadgross@lum ever

 

[noob3]

If MM misses, lead Roserade beats lumgross 75% of the time ;)

 

[MetaNite]

If MM misses, lead Roserade beats lumgross 75% of the time ;)

Lum Gross run Earthquake mostly for this purpose. Earthquake + Bullet Punch easily OHKOes Roserade and Smeargle. No use to risk missing when you have Earthquake ;)

I am not very surprised at the rankings this month. Alakazam and Rhyperior will probably be welcome additions to UU but not making too big a splash.

 

[Despotar]

Wow this is awesome!
I LOVE Roserade!
Sad UU lost it though,
but I may start playing UU now that Ala and Rhy are in!

EDIT: I do think Rhperior and Alakasm WILL make a fairly bid difference in UU.

 

[noob3]

Rhyperior will not make a big difference as Milotic's useage will soar due to the Roseradeless UU, making it insanely difficult for it to do it's thing. Also, have fun running Hippopotas if you want to use it to it's full potential.

 

[Not Scicky]

If Cress winds up UU then we can expect it to perform MUCH better there than in OU. Where in OU it has to fear Tyranitar, Scizor and others, as well as having Moonlight hampered by sandstorm, in UU it has much less to worry about.

 

[Wind of Portent]

Noooo...Roserade, why? We lost a powerful special attacker, reliable spiker, and "wall-breaker" in one. And possibly most importantly, we lost one of best the Milotic counters, if not the best.

Rhyperior looks dangerous, but its poor special defense and speed kind of let it down. Nevertheless, I expect it to be able to some damage.

Alakazam is similar to Rhyperior: extreme power, but any non-fighting priority'll probably take it out (heck, Technitop can even 2hko about 20% of the time with Mach Punch).

 

[A.P.]

Sucker Punch Top, Lee, and Dark-types pwn it.

Not to mention Spiritomb and maybe even Skuntank.

 

[VKCA]

Maybe all the pokemon teetering on the edge of UU/OU should just be given two pages, one on OU one on UU.

 

[mtr]

@Mr. Dreavus: Colin said he would work on that after ShoddyBattle 2 came out.

@Everyone: If Cresselia ever fell to UU, I would expect it to be banned within a week. Alakazam, probably not because there are quite a few hard counters for it that have uses outside of hard countering Alakazam (Spiritomb, Chansey...). I'm not too sure about Rhyperior either, since stuff like Milotic and Azumarill are everywhere. I won't call him the next Ramparados, though.

Umbreon's back in UU, as I believe it should stay (In my opinion, at least). The last I've heard of its use into OU was because it was a Latias counter, but I still haven't seen convincing calculations or logs of an Umbreon countering a Latias.

The problem with Umbreon countreing Latias is that it was/is a Dragon/Steel metagame, and Latias was so often partnered by Scizor and Lucario, both of which turned Umbreon into total setup fodder. Pokemon isn't a 1v1 game, it's a 6v6 game, and giving free turns to dangerous sweepers just to use something to counter a threat for which better counters exist is never a good idea.

 

[Xia]

Well, back to the drawing board to design a team that can set up Toxic Spikes, sleep enemies, and take care of Rhyperior's 4x weakness to Grass.

What a wierd combination of changes; I could have seen Rhyperior being checked by Roserade, but now that it's gone... looks like Azumarill's going to get a lot more use.

 

[ARandomDude]

Huzzah Roserade, I knew Roserade deserved more.

@Leftovers/Focus Sash
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def, Timid
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power Ground
-Sleep Powder
-Toxic Spikes

Outruns other Roserade to the sleep powder (most carry HP Fire, which kills your speed IV) and nails Heatran thinking you are going to run/trying to get a free Flash Fire boost. Grass Knot and Toxic Spikes shit on bulky waters (I'm looking at you Suicune). What's not to love?

 

[MrIndigo]

Huzzah Roserade, I knew Roserade deserved more.

@Leftovers/Focus Sash
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def, Timid
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power Ground
-Sleep Powder
-Toxic Spikes

Outruns other Roserade to the sleep powder (most carry HP Fire, which kills your speed IV) and nails Heatran thinking you are going to run/trying to get a free Flash Fire boost. Grass Knot and Toxic Spikes shit on bulky waters (I'm looking at you Suicune). What's not to love?

I use the same set with Leaf Storm.

 

[Toaster]

Good to see Roserade back in OU,Seems that many people discovered that LO/Toxic spikes Roserade is pretty potent.Looking forward for perior and alakazam in UU,Ive tested Sub+SD With sandstorm support in OU and found out that it was pretty beastly.Im sure that hopefully Sub+SD rhyperior will have an easier time.

 

[A.P.]

It's not going to be easy to get Sandstorm support in UU.

 

[akarias]

Ah, you are right about MM+BP. I did the calculations wrong. Though if you don't find smeargle a threat maxing out your hp/def lets you survive MM+BP, allowing you to get ride of an annoying poke, and prevent SR at the same time.

However, 176 hp 196 def roserade survives eq+BP all the time, while still outspeeding smeargle. If he decides to risk MM, you can take the BP with heatran to OHKO metagross. Also keep in mind lum berry gross gets set up on by gyarados like no other.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

It's not going to be easy to get Sandstorm support in UU.

No, it won't be. :( Hippopotas, while not abysmal, is quite mediocre to be honest.

Of course, the real question is, "Is it worth sacrificing a slot on my team for perma-Sandstorm?" If it benefits the likes of Rhyperior that much, then the answer could very well be "Yes"!

 

[IcyMan28]

I'm personally excited to use ScarfRose.

Roserade@Choice Scarf
Modest / Timid; 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Leaf Storm
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
HP Ground / HP Fire

Modest is the preferred nature for a few reasons. With it, Roserade boosts its excellent Sp.Atk to 383, while it still outspeeds 252 +Speed Heatran by one point - an important factor. Leaf Storm allows Roserade to hit extremely hard, OHKOing 6/0 Gyarados 87.17% of the time with Stealth Rock factored in. Sludge Bomb provides Roserade with a consistent sweeping move (and allows it to hit Celebi and Zapdos). A fast sleep is always appreciated, explaining Sleep Powder's presence on the set. The last move is for coverage, and also depends largely on the nature. With a Modest nature, HP Ground is suggested so that Roserade can outspeed KO Heatran (guaranteed with Stealth Rock), and still hit the majority of other steels. With a Timid nature, Roserade is guaranteed to outspeed Heatran and can thus sleep it, making HP Fire the more desirable option, hitting the likes of Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress for more damage.