np: LC - Tiny Dancer (VOTE HERE)

[Nails]

J/W, why did the thread's title get changed?

and @ dark, zuruggu isn't really stoppable with screens; also, devil's advocate is hella fun.

so, you encored me into dd, with encore's nerf you have 1 turn to kill me (after a switch) or i wind up +4 and in even better position to sweep. with evo stone, a ohko is really difficult on zuruggu, so unless you have a powerful fighting type (who if you brought it out earlier, I killed with my wynaut... just saying) then I'm set to sweep with +4 speed/attack and only 1 poke who resists my stabs.

stun spore might not work, as shed skin is also a very viable ability, and you may have just wasted your turns.

 

[SlimMan]

If you're using the Smogon Damage Calculator, it's likely that you're forgetting to set the defensive Pokemon's level to level 5.

No, I did that......... I hate math anyway, so I'm not even going to worry about it.

 

[Ice-eyes]

so, you encored me into dd, with encore's nerf you have 1 turn to kill me (after a switch) or i wind up +4 and in even better position to sweep. with evo stone, a ohko is really difficult on zuruggu, so unless you have a powerful fighting type (who if you brought it out earlier, I killed with my wynaut... just saying) then I'm set to sweep with +4 speed/attack and only 1 poke who resists my stabs.

Or while you're DDing, I substitute, Leech Seed you, and Encore you again when it runs out.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Ice hit the nail on the head. SubSeeding is pretty much the reason why every Zuruggu should run the instant they see a Monmen.

 

[SlimMan]

Last Gen, weather team were pretty much rain and the occasional sandstorm.

But now that Drought Vulpix has been released, I can see sun becoming the dominant weather in LC. What do other people think about this?

 

[Nails]

Sun doesn't have that many great sweepers, although once stuff like bulbasaur gets chloraphyll from dream world it'll be marginally better. Overall, I don't see weather having that much of an impact on the metagame, especially since snover is still top tier, and sandstorm's pokemon are decidedly better.

 

[SlimMan]

Sun doesn't have that many great sweepers, although once stuff like bulbasaur gets chloraphyll from dream world it'll be marginally better. Overall, I don't see weather having that much of an impact on the metagame, especially since snover is still top tier, and sandstorm's pokemon are decidedly better.

It's true that Hippo and Snover > Vulpix. But once all the Dream World abilities are released, I can see abilities like Solar Power and Chlorophyll running rampant. Mostly due to Growth getting buffed.

Then again, I haven't seen any signs of sun domination yet, so I don't speak from experience.

 

[capefeather]

It's worth noting that Bulbasaur DOES have Chlorophyll now, and Charmander DOES have Solar Power (though my limited use of it suggests that it's very bad in this meta).

 

[slowdown]

It's worth noting that Bulbasaur DOES have Chlorophyll now, and Charmander DOES have Solar Power (though my limited use of it suggests that it's very bad in this meta).

They come at level 10 and are all male, so it's possible little cup will never see them.

 

[SlimMan]

They come at level 10 and are all male, so it's possible little cup will never see them.

They aren't all male. They're 87.5% male. Simply put: no one has found a female yet.

 

[Naxte]

They aren't all male. They're 87.5% male. Simply put: no one has found a female yet.

That's the ratio for normal in-game situations. It's quite possible and easy for Nintendo to have set all DW starters to be male, though, especially as they're given away through a password. Until someone finds a female one, we have to assume that this is what they've done and that female DW starters aren't obtainable.

 

[SlimMan]

That's the ratio for normal in-game situations. It's quite possible and easy for Nintendo to have set all DW starters to be male, though, especially as they're given away through a password. Until someone finds a female one, we have to assume that this is what they've done and that female DW starters aren't obtainable.

That's true. I was assuming that since many other DW females have been found, it would be so for all DW pokemon.

Of course, speculation=/=fact.

 

[Heysup]

I've personally used Sunny Day to some success. I don't have a "perfect" team atm but it's still pretty good.

Vulpix + Magnemite for Bronzor/tesshido + exeggcute + Bellsprout + Fire resists / filler x 2

 

[v]

Nomination Time!

Hey guys! Sorry for the delay, real life got in the way. Here's the deal: We will be accepting nominations until December 15, 2010. Nominations posted after 11:59 PM EST of December 15 will be discarded. Once the nominated suspects are posted, you may submit your voting paragraphs as per last test, but more on that when the time comes!

Bold Pokemon and/or items which you think should be made suspects for this round, and back it up with reasoning. Whether or not we accept your nominations will be determined based on coherency and sensibility. While length is not considered, we would like to remind everyone that is is always best to err on the side of detail in this case. Non-bolded nominations will not be counted.

Happy nominating!

 

[Nails]

Zuruggu +1 Zuruggu ohkoes the universe. But really, the ease with which it can get +2/3 is incredible, it has the ability to set up on so much stuff and has very few counters. Incredibly broken, self explanatory.

Murkrow It's incredibly powerful, base 120 STAB and base 80 STAB priority is awesome. But at least steel resists its STABs... oh, but it has heat wave. Or, it can choose to forego heat wave to get priority on all of its non-damaging moves. Oh, and 19 speed is always good, backed up by some of the best mixed attacking stats in LC. Hell, if even has nasty plot if anyone cared about using that.

Meditite It has no counters, ghosts can't switch in because they're ohkoed by Zen Headbutt. Basically it has a huge attack stat, great STABs, multiple priority moves... ect. It's fast enough to make a viable scarfer. Just that huge attack stat makes it way too hard to play around essentially.

Evolution Stone Sweepers have way too easy a time setting up with this thing. I love what it does for bulky pokemon, but the fact that those very bulky pokemon it helps can be set up on by sweepers with rediculous defenses given no investment is too much. Gligar can stall out Ice Punches if it has roost and this thing (along with residual damage ofc). If we could ban it on sweepers but not bulkymons i'd like it, but that's not doable. Gligar/Missy ect can serve as setup sweepers and bulkymons meant to stall for example, and even determining what pokemon can and can't use evo stone is hellish and involves neverending debate. Also, though my opinion is completely objective on whether or not it's broken, the game is a lot more fun as a hyper offense meta.

 

[Venser]

Personally, I don't think that Meditite is broken in this metagame, or at least one with Evolution Stone. It's certainly annoying, but until stuff like Zuruggu is out of the way, its a less-relevant threat.

 

[More Cowbell]

I'm not a big LC player, but I enjoy watching battles and reading warstories about it, so I have at least some knowledge (or at least I like to think that):

Zuruggu seems to be too easy to set up with, with it's good defenses, good attack and decent speed. Too powerful, IMO.

Evolution Stone seems to turn the metagame more stall-ish, something I don't like. This is mostly a preference thing. But it does give some sweepers (like Zuruggu) a way too easy time to set up.

 

[Wafflez]

Well ive been quite interested in LC recently but i havn't been able spend enough time to play it for like the last month or so.Hopefully il start again soon and il try to contribute to the metagame as well.Well my nominations....

Zuruggu :+1 Zuruggu Ohk0s the entire universe.It has almost perfect Stab Coverage combined with a Great attack and bulk.It also has a great movepool and also a very useful ability so that even Death foddering puts you at further danger.Its far too easy to set up and has a very short list of checks and counters.Deffinetly has to go.

Meditite:Very Powerful and verstile and is extreemely hard to switch into.It has a great offensive stats.All though it has mediocre deffenses it has access to useful priority to bypass the speed.With its Great Stabs backed up by a good movepool it has pretty much no switch ins.Mostly the ability that makes him such a destructive force.With it he can easily 2hk0 pretty much everything.

Evolution Stone :This makes certain things such as Zoruggu,Gliscor far too easy to set up.All though the more deffensive oriented things get a welcome boost,the fact that the scary sweepers abuse it making set up so easy is the biggest problem.It also makes strategies like Dual Screen set up even more effective and adds an unhealthy centralization to the game.And as Nails said LC is more fun as hyper offensive and should stay such imo.

 

[SlimMan]

Evolution Stone :This makes certain things such as Zoruggu,Gliscor far too easy to set up.All though the more deffensive oriented things get a welcome boost,the fact that the scary sweepers abuse it making set up so easy is the biggest problem.It also makes strategies like Dual Screen set up even more effective and adds an unhealthy centralization to the game.And as Nails said LC is more fun as hyper offensive and should stay such imo.

There is no Gliscor in LC. I assume you meant Gligar.

Anyway, I kind of love/hate Evolution Stone.
I love it because it makes defense a little easier to pull off.
I hate it because set-up sweepers will rape a whole team using it.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Zuruggu: Seriously, there's a reason every poster above me cries for a test/ban. Great STABs, bulk [backed by Evo-stone, it's monstrous (and with Dual Screens, it's unstoppable (and with Drain Punch, it's laughably broken))), two excellent abilities, and the second best boosting move ever, Dragon Dance.

Evolution-Stone is broken on set-up sweepers, easily granting multiple turns to boost, especially in conjunction with Dual Screens, ESPECIALLY if they have recovery moves. With double or triple attack, they can smash past Evo-stone walls and even some resists with ease.

However, it's far from broken on defensive pokemon like Gligar, Murkrow, Missy, etc, and it's nice to see something other than hyper offense. Even if hyper offense is the most bestest way to play.

Yeah, agree with Nails on this.

A solution would be to ban Evolution-Stone in conjunction with boosting moves.

Or attack evs.

Or over one attacking move.

Or a combination or modification of the above.

 

[v]

I said no snarky side commentary. All you're doing is pissing off the opposing side of the argument, not to mention me. Next time I see sarcasm, good-natured or not, I'm "warning" it, period. I love a good joke or funny post as much as the next guy, but keep it out of here.

 

[Elevator Music]

To be honest, nothing seems to be worth banning at the moment. I think it would be better to give it more time until really dominant strategies arise. I haven't found this to be the case with either Evo Stone or Zuruggu (he's easy to stop if you actually keep him in mind during teambuilding -- if not, then that's your fault).

Not nomming anything.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Zuruggu hasn't been very overwhelming for me. I have one, and only one "counter" to Zuruggu, and I haven't been swept by him yet. With the Wi-Fi thing on, I can easily see if my opponent has Zuruggu or not. If he/she does, I reserve the check/counter. If not, then it doesn't matter, does it? Oh, and on the off chance that Zuruggu gets a chance to set up, the Tesshiido/Pururiru combo can utilize prediction and force it to take Iron Barbs damage until priority can kill it (which actually isn't a lot of damage to take).

 

[Plusle]

Nominations

Inconsistent- Anybody who has played OU will now what a pain this is. Spam Protect and Subsitute until you have +6 evasion. In LC i have used this biddoof set well
Bidoof (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inconsistent
EVs: 204 HP / 36 Atk / 200 Def / 36 SDef / 32 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Protect


Basically you are only walled by Gastly, who is rare because Misdrevous is availible. Return is your main STAB and Toxic is good for stalling.




Meditite- As Noob Lyf3 siad
Very Powerful and verstile and is extreemely hard to switch into.It has a great offensive stats.All though it has mediocre deffenses it has access to useful priority to bypass the speed.With its Great Stabs backed up by a good movepool it has pretty much no switch ins.Mostly the ability that makes him such a destructive force.With it he can easily 2hk0 pretty much everything.

Zuruggu- Zuruggu is a monster. It can 2HKO all of little Cup after a dragon dance. It has great stabsand can get perfect coverage. Its also very bulky and with Pre volution stone and Drain Punch, not much is getting past it.

 

[NeoSeth]

I can't really nominate anything just yet. Zuruggu is a powerful sweeper, but so far my own Zuruggu has been well-checked, and I've had an easy time checking other Zuruggus. I don't think anyone's been looking far enough for a counter. My stall teal runs Kojofuu and happens to have a very physically bulky Skorupi that can take a hit from a +1 Crunch and Whirlwind Zuruggu out.