Not really.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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How so? after 1 calm mind non-stab ice beams will be doing nothing to Virizion.
Kabutops can't do much unless it runs Aerial ace but then it will lose to other pokemon like Ferrothorn.
Exactly. With only one turn of set-up, (if Politoed doesn't put you to sleep) you will still be powered through like anything else unless you run all bulk which will really hurt you against non-rain teams
I'm pretty sure it can thanks to giga drain...though specs ice beam from kingdra could be scary. My Virizion is able to beat the trio or at least kill two.
Im prett sure it can't as Toed can sleep it, and it won't be doing a huge amount with a neutral Giga Drain to Kingdra and Ludi
Hypnosis is a 60% accuracy move, if it missed and he gets to +1 Toed is fucked. Why would anyone leave Politoed in on a Super-Effective STAB move when their team is totally and utterly dependent on the rain?
Being able to put it too sleep with such a shaky movie does not mean Virizion cannot be effective against a Rain Dance team. However, I don't have any damage calculations on hand.
Being able to put it too sleep with such a shaky movie does not mean Virizion cannot be effective against a Rain Dance team. However, I don't have any damage calculations on hand.
Hypnosis is unreliable plus Virizion is faster and has super-effective giga drain to eat the toed up. Well, whatever attacks kingdra and ludi do won't take massive damage either after one calm mind. In the end Virizion will end up winning.
Kabu has Low Kick and some have X-Scissor.
Ludi has Ice Beam.
Kingdra has Draco Meteor/Outrage.
How exactly is it going to wall them all?
It can decently handle the Kingdra/Ludicolo/Kabutops trio most of the time but the Underutilized Swift Swimmers like Qwilfish and Floatzel can beat the crap out of it (Floatzel after Bulk Up but Ice Punch does a lot of damage), especially Qwilfish. Another reason why banning the first three is not going to kill Rain and will be about as broken as before in strength.
Scarf Toed is pretty popular. No it won't. An ice Beam will still do good damage, even after CM, and after Toed and Ludi get their hits off on you, a Specs DM, will likely take you out. If not, there is still Kabutops, who can take you out with Waterfall
Take note that if Kabutops replaces low kick for one of those moves it will lose to Ferrothorn or Poliwrath.
Ludi's ice beam won't do much after a calm mind from my exp. I don't know about life orb though.
Kingdra's draco meteor is what I usually set up on, lol. Also Outrage is bothersome but I rarely see physical kingdra when politoed is around.
TheValkyries:
I think that what you're talking about is minimizing the impact of a ban. It's definitely a good goal to have, and I agree that we shouldn't take banning something as widespread as Drizzle lightly. I just don't like all this semantics because it just fosters misunderstanding rather than actually providing any insight.
I think that what you're talking about is minimizing the impact of a ban. It's definitely a good goal to have, and I agree that we shouldn't take banning something as widespread as Drizzle lightly. I just don't like all this semantics because it just fosters misunderstanding rather than actually providing any insight.
Floatzel has a lot of counters, Plus such week defenses may allow techni Breloom to kill it off with mach punch.
Quagsire, Toxicroak, Gastrodon, and Gyarados can take care of Qwilfish. All he can do is explode which is not that good this gen.
Well, I've been witholding my thoughts on Drizzle for a while, but I think after getting to about 1250 I can at least post them.
Drizzle isn't broken. Simply put in a metagame with rain as the only weather, it would be broken. However we also have sand and to a lesser extent rain and hail. Non-weather teams can easily succeed by simply having a weather changer and predicting correctly to bring it in at the right times. A prime example is Iconic's team Layla, which succeeds simply by using Tyranitar to counter rain and Gliscor to check Doryuuzu.
Drizzle isn't broken. Simply put in a metagame with rain as the only weather, it would be broken. However we also have sand and to a lesser extent rain and hail. Non-weather teams can easily succeed by simply having a weather changer and predicting correctly to bring it in at the right times. A prime example is Iconic's team Layla, which succeeds simply by using Tyranitar to counter rain and Gliscor to check Doryuuzu.
So we're all FORCED to use a weather changer?
How is that not over centralizing?
for me even without dory etc i will use ttar anyday in most team i made. Ttar is such a versatile beast that a metagame in which im forced to use Ttar in every team im going to make if im not using weather not a problem but an enjoyment.
But i cant deny every arguent of rain's power etc. Just have a counter to rain and fine.
Lets just treat rain like dragon last gen(not to same extetnt) and call it a day.
Also virizion take 70 % from LO superpower. So hes not walling rain team anyday
But i cant deny every arguent of rain's power etc. Just have a counter to rain and fine.
Lets just treat rain like dragon last gen(not to same extetnt) and call it a day.
Also virizion take 70 % from LO superpower. So hes not walling rain team anyday
Floatzel has weak defenses and can be a bit hard to bring in. But Breloom would NOT finish it off with Mach Punch (71.47-84.01%, bad yes until it gets Bulk Up which turns it into 47.34-55.8% and no other priority user is going to hit quite as hard as that usually) and Floatzel kills it with Ice Punch. None of those are going to enjoy potential from Poison Jab and Qwilfish can Destiny Bond when near death. And they take heavy damage (except Unaware Quagsire) from Swords Dance Poison Jab.
Techniloom also doesn't exist yet,AFAIK.
Cross it off the list.
i ran some calcs of the trio's usual attacks again a 4 hp 0defense 0 special defense virizion and found that
Ludicolos Ice Beam(252 Modest)---Virizion at + 0 and a calm mind boost
+0- 57.4% -67.9%
+1- 38.3% -45.7%
Kabutops Stone Edge(252 adamant)
+0 39.2% -46.3%
+2(swords dance) 78.7%-92.6%
Kabutops Water fall
+0 47.2% - 55.6%
+2(swords dance) 94.1%-110.8%
Kingdras Outrage(252 Adamant)
+0 70.4% - 82.7%
+1 104.9% - 124.1%
Specs Kingdras draco meteor(252 modest) virizion boost
+0 75.3% - 88.9%
+1(calm mind boost) 50- 59.3%
P.S this is assuming you use the speedy life orbed calm minder(252 speed 252 special attack 4 hp
and thought these may be helpful o_x and hope i did them right :<
Ludicolos Ice Beam(252 Modest)---Virizion at + 0 and a calm mind boost
+0- 57.4% -67.9%
+1- 38.3% -45.7%
Kabutops Stone Edge(252 adamant)
+0 39.2% -46.3%
+2(swords dance) 78.7%-92.6%
Kabutops Water fall
+0 47.2% - 55.6%
+2(swords dance) 94.1%-110.8%
Kingdras Outrage(252 Adamant)
+0 70.4% - 82.7%
+1 104.9% - 124.1%
Specs Kingdras draco meteor(252 modest) virizion boost
+0 75.3% - 88.9%
+1(calm mind boost) 50- 59.3%
P.S this is assuming you use the speedy life orbed calm minder(252 speed 252 special attack 4 hp
and thought these may be helpful o_x and hope i did them right :<
What I'm saying is that Birijion likely won't have a weather inducer on the same team, and that there are multiple ways for a Rain Team to deal with Birijion unless it runs Max Def/HP, and even then, it can likely be powered through
No, you are not forced to use a weather changer.
Why, whenever someone tries to use their brain, and come up with suggestions to combat rain, someone always replies "Oh, so we're forced to use that if we don't ban Politoed?" According to this thread, you're now "forced" to use like 20 different things.
Name those 20 things.
They should be OU btw.
except if you pour sprinkles all over your computer, Drizzle teams auto-lose to you. See, I can make stuff up, too. The fact is, nothing reliably counters rain without making it significantly worse against non-rain teams. That is the point that people are trying to make right now, and i wholeheartedly agree.
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