np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

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Here's what I love doing, and have done oh so many times:

Turn 1: Switch Toed in on the CM
Turn 2: Encore CM
Turn 3: Switch to Gliscor
Turn 4: Use Swords Dance, they CM a fourth time; Encore ends.
Turn 5: Baton Pass to Sharpedo while they Psychic/Psycho Shock. lolgg unless you have priority/a Ferrothorn with over 65% health.

Also, you can always run both Encore and Perish Song on Politoed, this way you don't let them just set up on you.
 
What seems broken now?

This is based on my Rain team, which is doing well, not my No-Weather team, surprisingly, there isn't a lot which strikes me as broken, although there may be Wobufett as well, but I've only faced a single one.

Latios: I know, it's been a suspect twice already. But in Round 1 and Round 2, the Hyper-Offensive metagame and the sheer insanity of Rain and Sand being everywhere kept Latios held back a little, as DM was a free invitation for Kingdra/Kabutops/Dory/Landos to come in and wreck stuff afterwards. Now that SS is more or less gone, and Sand is actually used less, due to the smaller need to counter Rain, Latios is not held back at all.

Specs Draco Meteors take 50+% off from even Steels like Heatran and Jirachi. They're your best bet, besides something like Chansey/Blissey, at taking these blows. Basically anything that isnt a pink blob of fat is 2HKO'ed at least.

Then there's the Life Orb sets, which hit hard as anything... AND can change moves. Did I mention Recover?

It's particually nasty when Latios is paired with Sazandora or Latias. You simply cannot withstand that many Draco Meteors, unless you're a Chansey/Blissey Softboling every turn... and even then, a Crit will mess you up badly.

Basically, in short, Latios destroys Offensive teams, especially with another D-2 Bomber by it's side, such as Latias and Sazandora. Stall dosen't stand much of a chance either, with the possibly of Trick, or a Bulky CM set.
I agree with this completely, especially about the Draco Meteor-stacking offensive teams. Just about anything that isn't completely obliterated by a specs (or even a scarf) draco meteor from Latios can be rendered pretty much useless with Trick (other than maybe Tyranitar, but he's still taking heavy damage.)

PS: Scarftar is completely underrated in 5th gen from what I've seen.
 
With classes just starting again I hope I'll find enough time to get some laddering done. Top 15 I've been able to reach, I hope I won't run out of luck.

As for the discussion on Latios, I have to agree on it being quite a pain. I've resorted to putting Ferrothorn on just about every team I put together. As have many others from what I've seen.
 
Shit that I think is 100% broken:



Lati@s: Fuck this thing. A “counter” will take 35% - 50% damage minimum, and thats if you’re a steel type (or Blissey/Chansey). On top of this it can have a move for everything that would switch in(HP Fire, Surf, Trick, Psycho Shock) You can also run both Lati twins with Magnezone and rip teams a new asshole. We saw how centralized Latias made OU in Gen 4 so lets just send it to Ubers where it belongs.



Rankurusu/Reinculus: Lets be honest the Trick Room set is annoying but it’s not really broken, the real culprit is the Calm Mind set. Any random Psychic type with Roar/Perish Song isn’t a counter. You’re just stalling until he’s the last man alive or you run out of Perish Song’s 8 pp. So effectively this set has three, yes THREE counters (Spiritomb, CB Scizor, and Shubarugo). Spiritomb sucks ass for any team but sadly stall is forced to use it as its “bulky” ghost, and only a retard would run Scizor and Shubarugo on the same team. He will take out at the VERY least 1 pokemon on any given team without those said counters. Ban it or ban Magic Guard so it can take hazard damage, I don’t give a fuck.



Landlos: I don’t care if there was a glitch that made Sand Power a 1.5 boost instead of 1.3, this shit is still overpowered as shit. It can 2HKO the premier physical wall of OU, Hippowdon, with an Earthquake by holding a Life Orb. No other physical sweeper can do that in OU with a NEUTRAL physical attack. To make matters worse it’s already pretty fast at a trollish 101 base speed, but if you decide that you need to outspeed some other broken motherfucker just Rock Polish up. Gliscor shouldn’t even be listed as a counter anymore since every set runs HP Ice now coming from 115 base power. Did I mention this thing learns Swords Dance? Great, now all thos 2HKO’s are OHKO’s. Seriously, I’m sick and fucking tired of running HP Ice Bronzong on every team I make just to deal with this.



Doryuzuu: Think Landlos but this time give it a free Rock Polish for shits and giggles. It doesnt’t have to worry about one of it’s weaknesses since it always holds balloon in turn negating all entry hazard damage (3% damage might as well be free) making it a great revenge killer. Sure it’s not getting past Gliscor without a few Rock Slide flinches (and it always flinches) but you probably took out Gliscor by using the previous broken ‘mon (or dumbass Mixtar). Dory also makes stall teams impossible to play with, everytime they have their hazards down just show them a big fat middle finger by using Rapid Spin. No stall team in their right mind is going to switch in Spirtomb at the risk of taking a STAB Earthquake to the face. Before some dumbass says “Dory doesn’t sweep teams anymore, durrr..” I agree. Everyone and their mother carries 1 counter and a check at the very least. You just can’t make a team anymore without having Doryuzzu in mind, but by banning it the metagame will be much more diverse and fun (think of how grass type usage rose when Salamence was banned).





Shit that might be broken but not sure yet due to the REALLY broken shit



Voltlos: This one might be new but I honestly think its broken. Base 111 Speed makes it the king of the troll speed tiers and nothing common in OU is faster (bar scarfs/ Dory). It can also Nasty Plot to take its already amazing Sp.Atk to unholy levels. Taunt is a common site to stop things like Chansey/Blissey/Phazers. Only two moves are needed as attacks since anything that resists / is immune to thunderbolt wont like a +2 Focus Blast to the face (Gliscor takes over 70% and can’t do shit back). If that isn’t enough it can run a different setto just flat out annoy and cripple your whole team with Mischevous Heart paralyzing your sweepers, and toxicing/taunting your walls.




Garchomp: Guess what, it still has Sword Dance. It still is immune to Thunder Wave. Most imortantly it still has Outrage, which still hurts like a motherfucker at +2 even when resisted. If the Lati twins get banned this thing better go right along with it since they are the most common check. One more thing, fuck sand veil.



Salamence: Is it Dragon Dance, or is it Mix? If it’s mix what move will it use? Sound familiar....anyway both of the other broken dragons keep him in check but it’d be nice for the metagame to have them all gone.



Wobbufett: The only reason he’s not used more is because all the other broken shit just flat out KO him, but take them away and we have something that nabs you a free kill/setup and discourages any choice item.



Now go ahead and pick this post apart/call me a stupid troll.
 
I would say the only thing stopping Chomp from being broken is that while we have the Lati's, he's much easier to check (80% of the time <_<). Also Balloon means that stuff like Heatran can check him too, but even that requires you to keep your balloon in fact.

Fuck the Latis, they're stupid. Latias less so, but what can Latios not 2HKO? Specially defensive Rachi and that's it (thankfully Rachi is a great Pokemon and not just a sitting duck for other stuff).

Rain is good this time. Sand less so. I can actually beat rain teams with a sun team thanks to the lack of Kingdra spamming stuff all over the place.
 
Shit that I think is broken:



Lati@s: Fuck this thing. A “counter” will take 35% - 50% damage minimum, and thats if you’re a steel type (or Blissey/Chansey). On top of this it can have a move for everything that would switch in(HP Fire, Surf, Trick, Psycho Shock) You can also run both Lati twins with Magnezone and rip teams a new asshole. We saw how centralized Latias made OU in Gen 4 so lets just send it to Ubers where it belongs.

It's pursuit weakness weakens it greatly. What makes you nominate Latios rather than also sazandora, who while mostly outclassed by latios, is only a little slower but the same in almost every way with a few advantages (flamethrower, and most importantly, no pursuit weak, which is latios's greatest, crippling, weakness).

Rankurusu/Reinculus: Lets be honest the Trick Room set is annoying but it’s not really broken, the real culprit is the Calm Mind set. Any random Psychic type with Roar/Perish Song isn’t a counter. You’re just stalling until he’s the last man alive or you run out of Perish Song’s 8 pp. So effectively this set has three, yes THREE counters (Spiritomb, CB Scizor, and Shubarugo). Spiritomb sucks ass for any team but sadly stall is forced to use it as its “bulky” ghost, and only a retard would run Scizor and Shubarugo on the same team. He will take out at the VERY least 1 pokemon on any given team without those said counters. Ban it or ban Magic Guard so it can take hazard damage, I don’t give a fuck.

CM Roar Latias, CB Tar, Unaware quagsire, just pounding it on the special side before it can get a CM or two up. It's also very encore-weak, due to it's very low speed. There are also counters that I probably missed, and more in dreamworld.


Landlos: I don’t care if there was a glitch that made Sand Power a 1.5 boost instead of 1.3, this shit is still overpowered as shit. It can 2HKO the premier physical wall of OU, Hippowdon, with an Earthquake by holding a Life Orb. No other physical sweeper can do that in OU with a NEUTRAL physical attack. To make matters worse it’s already pretty fast at a trollish 101 base speed, but if you decide that you need to outspeed some other broken motherfucker just Rock Polish up. Gliscor shouldn’t even be listed as a counter anymore since every set runs HP Ice now coming from 115 base power. Did I mention this thing learns Swords Dance? Great, now all thos 2HKO’s are OHKO’s. Seriously, I’m sick and fucking tired of running HP Ice Bronzong on every team I make just to deal with this.

Then run specs latios with surf, or anything that outspeeds it and can take a hit if it decides to rockpolish rather than swords dance/attack. CB Mamoswine might be a good choice as well, if you're having so much landlos trouble. This is the most debatable one, but he's severely limited by the four-moveslot syndrome.


Doryuzuu: Think Landlos but this time give it a free Rock Polish for shits and giggles. It doesnt’t have to worry about one of it’s weaknesses since it always holds balloon in turn negating all entry hazard damage (3% damage might as well be free) making it a great revenge killer. Sure it’s not getting past Gliscor without a few Rock Slide flinches (and it always flinches) but you probably took out Gliscor by using the previous broken ‘mon (or dumbass Mixtar). Dory also makes stall teams impossible to play with, everytime they have their hazards down just show them a big fat middle finger by using Rapid Spin. No stall team in their right mind is going to switch in Spirtomb at the risk of taking a STAB Earthquake to the face. Before some dumbass says “Dory doesn’t sweep teams anymore, durrr..” I agree. Everyone and their mother carries 1 counter and a check at the very least. You just can’t make a team anymore without having Doryuzzu in mind, but by banning it the metagame will be much more diverse and fun (think of how grass type usage rose when Salamence was banned).

Skarmory, Gliscor, Conkledurr, reuiniclus, other weather. Most offensive teams have weather, and most stall teams have at least gliscor (who is an awesome wall this gen). Cokeldurr, and Reinculus are just very good pokemon who fit well in many teams, and one of which will probably be seen on most non-weather offensive teams. It's not a matter of the fact Doryuuzu exists that every team is running multiple checks, it's the fact its checks are so damn good. Also thanks to no LO, a lot of bulky attackers can take a hit and strike back. Without balloon, a lot of EQ using walls get to nail him, like hippowdon.


Voltlos: This one might be new but I honestly think its broken. Base 111 Speed makes it the king of the troll speed tiers and nothing common in OU is faster (bar scarfs/ Dory). It can also Nasty Plot to take its already amazing Sp.Atk to unholy levels. Taunt is a common site to stop things like Chansey/Blissey/Phazers. Only two moves are needed as attacks since anything that resists / is immune to thunderbolt wont like a +2 Focus Blast to the face (Gliscor takes over 70% and can’t do shit back). If that isn’t enough it can run a different setto just flat out annoy and cripple your whole team with Mischevous Heart paralyzing your sweepers, and toxicing/taunting your walls.

Blissey runs Ice Beam commonly, which I imagine he won't like. And while he does have 111 speed, he has no way of boosting it. MH paralysis is annoying, but there are those who are immune and outspeed, such as dory in SS. While he does have sweeping potential (and I have 6-0'd poorly built teams with him as a lead), he's not that hard to stop. Scarftar, Latias (this one can take tbolt+focus blast), unaware quagsire (if no grass knot) , a lot of scarfed things. Remember, nasty plot is a free switch in if he's not also running twave, but that severealy restricts his attacking movepool.





Shit that might be broken but not sure yet due to the REALLY broken shit



Garchomp: Guess what, it still has Sword Dance. It still is immune to Thunder Wave. Most imortantly it still has Outrage, which still hurts like a motherfucker at +2 even when resisted. If the Lati twins get banned this thing better go right along with it since they are the most common check. One more thing, fuck sand veil.

Latis keep in check fairly well, along with Voltolos, the new 108's, and scarf Sazandora. Skarm still walls all moves other than fire fang/blast, and the other dragons still get a free switch in on fire fang/blast.



Salamence: Is it Dragon Dance, or is it Mix? If it’s mix what move will it use? Sound familiar....anyway both of the other broken dragons keep him in check but it’d be nice for the metagame to have them all gone.

Poor speed for this gen, outspeed by a lot of the new mons. Very threatening if it gets in though, but with new walls it's not that threatening.


Wobbufett: The only reason he’s not used more is because all the other broken shit just flat out KO him, but take them away and we have something that nabs you a free kill/setup and discourages any choice item.

Theorymon. Don't assume something will be broken once something else is banned. This is what led to alot of sun/sand nominations another round.

Now go ahead and pick this post apart/call me a stupid troll.
 
@ Arc Tech, I don't wanna quote a quote that was quoted so i'll just respond this way.

Lati Twins- The speed difference in the Lati twins vs Sazandora makes all the difference. Lati@s can afford to run Specs because it has 110 base speed, getting the jump on things below Voltlos while hitting like a truck. Sazandora has to pick between hitting hard or outspeeding things. Also most things with pursuit are really just 50% counters (scizor, ttar) because if it fires off something like surf it can stay in and try to go for the ko.



Rank-I'll give you Unaware Quagsire, but CB Ttar can't OHKO all the time so its not a counter in my book. "Any random Psychic type with Roar/Perish Song isn’t a counter. You’re just stalling until he’s the last man alive or you run out of Perish Song’s 8 pp."



Landlos- Everything you listed is a check. The only counter to this thing is HP Ice Bronzong as I already said.



Dory- Skarm isn't doing shit except phazing you out so you can come back and try to flinch it later. Here are some calcs we've probably all seen a million times

252 Atk Adamant Mach Punch vs Dory : 63.7%-75.3%(110 HP goes a long way)
+2 252 Atk Jolly Doryuuzu EQ vs 252 HP Roobushin : 84.8%-100%

Since Dory holds balloon and takes lol damage from rocks I'm going to assume it is over 75% if thats okay with you. There is a 9% chance to KO but not alot of people run max HP. 120 HP is more common so here's that calc

+2 252 Atk Jolly Doryuuzu EQ vs 120 HP Roobushin : 92.1%-108.7%

50% chance that that Dory will kill you here, any prior damage/entry hazards will swing the odds in your opponents favor.

+2 252 Atk Jolly Doryuuzu EQ vs 252 HP/252 Def Rankurusu 75%-88.4%

Wow it can live, this is a new one for me I admit but you just wasted a perfectly good Rankurusu. Guess its better than being swept though.




Voltlos: I wish stats were out to see exactly how many Blissey's run Ice Beam (I know I don't). I'm just going to move this to the bottom pile of my post.
 
1)Sazandora is far worse since it gets so incredibly outsped. And Latios doesn't really need Fire Blast, as Specs HP Fire can take out most, if not all, Nattoreis.
2)Unaware Quagsire is still Quagsire, and thusly is completely awful. It can do literally nothing to Reuniclus and still likely gets 2 or 3HKOd by Psychic. CB Tar also doesn't counter because he will be OHKOd b Focus Blast after 1 CM, likely given away by switching in.
3)I agree. Landlos really doesn't have the power afetr a Rock Polish to take out most bulky mons with neutrality or even resistance to Stone Edge
4)Reuniclus does NOT counter this thing. Dory can take it out no problem with a +2 X-Scissor.
5)I don't find Voltros especially broken, though I must admit I have seen very few of them nor played with him exclusively, so I will withhold my comment at this time.
 
Chris P. Bacon said:
HOTLINKING IS A NO-NO.
OK Mr. Rhyperior!

But seriously, I have to wonder what mindset you're using going into this if you're pointing out Thundurus and Salamence of all things as candidates for being broken. To be fair in Latios's case, it seems that Scizor and Tyranitar are foregoing Pursuit a lot these days.
 
TBH i find mence this gen been rather mediocre. mix set is outsped by ever so common virizionand get edged by terrakion. Terrakion can take EQ too. God hel if hes using baloon and SD on you face too. Theres too many things that in some way handle mence its not even funny. But on garchomp..... yeah
 
OK Mr. Rhyperior!

But seriously, I have to wonder what mindset you're using going into this if you're pointing out Thundurus and Salamence of all things as candidates for being broken. To be fair in Latios's case, it seems that Scizor and Tyranitar are foregoing Pursuit a lot these days.
I'm not saying that they are 100% broken I just think the pokemon at the bottom section of my post should get a closer examination. The top half however is without a doubt in my mind too strong for the metagame.
 
I only agree with doryuuzu and latios TBH.
Landlos is kinda easily kept in check most of the time.
And my team always have ways to deal with ranky without i intended to do it.

And no dory still swept team. YEah everyone carry at least 2 counter to it but meh
 

SJCrew

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I've played with Landlos a lot on the PO server, and he's really a fucking monster. He's countered by Brozong and nothing else, really. I've seen people try to be funny and use Unaware Quagsire on me, but sometimes, they just switch in on EQ and die to the second hit (it's a guaranteed 2HKO, in case you were wondering).

Landlos would be okay if he was like every other Ground type and got walled by Skarmory, Gliscor, or Hippowdon, the stuff that we usually count on to take physical sweepers, but he gets usable HP Ice without investing and a 1.3 boost to EdgeQuake. Ridiculous. I don't care about Doryuuzu; get rid of Landlos.
 

PK Gaming

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Because everyone else is doing it:

Clearly broken
Latios: Really stupid to face. Specs Latios is broken, anyway you slice it. A common argument is that he can be stopped by pursuit users, but he flat out 2HKOes them with Surf. Yeah both Scizor and Tyranitar are 2HKOed by Surf.

Specs Latios using Surf vs Scizor 252/0: 54.4% - 64.2%
Specs Latios using Surf vs Tyranitar 252/0: 51.5% - 60.9%
And don't even give my that crock about running 252HP/252SpD. Its viable yes, but its fucking stupid! If i'm running max hp/ max SpD there's a big problem. Once you remove Latios' "checks", you guarantee a kill every time you switch in with him. Draco Meteor ripping off 60% off steel types is just unhealthy.

Cheesy factor: (A scale from 1-10 that represents how ridiculous a suspect is)
7/10

Rankurusu: Between Calm Mind and Trick Room, countering this pokemon is nearly impossible. I completely agree with Chris. P Bacon, it has like 2 checks and 1 counter. People suggested colorful ways of checking it by encoring it but fuck that shit. Eventually players will learn to pay attention to the opposing team and hit those encorer's on the switch in with Psychic. To the people who state that Rankurusu is checked by trick. Get real. Do you honestly think people would fall for that?!? "Hmm Latios just switched in, I wonder what he's up too..."
9/10


Suspect
Doryuuzu: Blah, blah, blah countered by Gliscor and Slowbro etc. Still this pokemon limits teambuilding and thats no good. Not really "broken" just really fucking dumb.
(No this thing isn't countered by 252HP/252Def bold Rankurusu. Focus Blast doesn't OHKO and its hard to land the move anyway.
5/10

Landlos: He's still too strong. Sure he can't deal like 70% to Virizion with EQ, but its still powerful. Its one of the few physical sweepers who doesn't give a fuck about Gliscor, and it still only has 1 counter (Brozong with HP Ice... what a joke) Skarmory is a decent, but he's only WW (and he can't wear him down since he's airborne)
6/10

Blaziken: See Doryuuzu but much worse. Yes, I might catch a lot of flak for this but I think Blaziken is even STRONGER than Doryuuzu. Its got 1 counter in Slowbro. Everything else (from Latias to physically defensive Burungeru) are KOed by the appropriate coverage move. People often state that Azumarill keeps Blaziken in check, but it can't even switch in... Again, I don't think its "broken" (don't let that fucker setup / run faster scarfers) but its just dumb to face. To be fair thought, it kinda suffers from 4MSS because it can't kill "everything."
6/10 (Sometimes I give it a 10)

Edit: Inb4 Quagsire. Yeah he's a decent check to Blaziken if you Swords Dance, but if I see one in TP I'm using HJK (which deals 47.5% - 56.3%)
Edit 2: I completely forgot about Blaziken in the sun. Its REALLY hard to check on sun teams.
 

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I'd probably agree that Landorus is borderline broken but on well built team (not named stall) you probably havce 2-3 things that outspeed him/can take a hit from him depending on the set. Funny thing is if Landorus goes I will guarantee that the Dory complaints go away as imo Dory doesn't actually sweep, it cleans teams that have been weakened. Without landorus all of its checks/counters will still be arouind to KO/phaze him. Imo Dory isn't broken as it deosn't sweep on its own. It cleans which it does extremely well but can only rarely sweep outright.
 
I'll echo what most have said about Latios - it's simply too fast and too powerful with Specs. I think Latias may have a nice place in this meta, however, without Soul Dew, but ofc we would have to see about that if Latios becomes uber. It'd be interestign to see what difference the stats make.

Rankurusu I'm still not convinced by. I know just how much of a bugger it is, but the awful speed and being unable to do everything on one set seems to me to make it manageable. I can't really speak from a stall perspective on him however, as I play offence pretty much all the time and have few issues with him.

I've never really considered Dory broken, he's a pain but he does have counters and ways to get around him. Landlos on the other hand I'm more inclined to believe is suspect - the speed he can achieve with RP, his insane power and the ability to run a HP to beat counters is pretty insane.

I agree see what PK means about Blaziken. I'm not sure if it's broken, but in Sun if you can get a memento or dual screens up for it you're pretty much screwed. It is the most dangerous thing Sun can offer really, if supported well, and its LO Sun boosted +2 Flare Blitz is what makes it so, turning counters into mincemeat. The possibility of Mixhen also gives it another set which is utterly deadly if you mispredict the standard one (as you probably would).
 
Blaziken needs a test. The only thing stopping it being so clearly broken is that it can often find it difficult getting the boost it needs, but it is a beast that's only real counter is itself. So many times when I've used Blaziken, the opponent has to wait for LO and Flare Blitz recoil for him to die. By that time I've taken down at least 2 guys, possibly three, and it only needs one turn of setup to beat pretty much everything.

Short of outpredicting it, there's not many things that can beat it.

It doesn't need dual screens/sun+memento (although that's what I use to make setting up MUCH easier) to rape, but that just really helps.
 
Reuniclus: To everyone who's saying this thing is broken I'd have to disagree with you there. As a user of Reuniclus I cant really say it's broken. True it's an MVP on my team but people easily play around my Reuniclus. To nubs who don't know what their doing I say gg but those battles are few and far between. Opposing Reuniclus is rather easy as I have Scizor on my side. Of course this doesnt stop a reuniclus from sweeping my team but it definatally handles it easily. I also have a CB Dragonite doing a shit ton to 252/252 Bold while +3 Psycho Shock did about half with Multi Scale active. I don't get why people are complaining about the thing when it's so easy to play around. Of course this is just my opinion.

Now of course I'm just giving my own perspective. I don't think everyone's gonna have a CB Dragonite and Scizor on their team so lez continue on with the discussion without personal exp. As I said before and keep on saying the most major counter to Reuniclus is playing around it with checks. It doesn't have many counters but it's got plenty of checks that any newb can pick up and be successful with. CMroar Latias, CB Tyranitar, Scizor, Shubarugo. Those are a few prime examples of ways to play around a Reuniclus easily. One thing I don't get is why people are complaining about the TR set again. I could've sworn this set was resolved as not broken. It's nowhere near as bulky as the CM set which means it can be overpowered much more easily. It also doesn't have a form of recovery which means it's just not gonna last very long. Granted that thing's got some serious power on it's side but with enough power or strategy you could easily break through TR reuniclus.

@Chris P. Bacon

You don't consider CBtyranitar who can come in on 3 of it's 4 attacks and threaten to ohko a counter just because it doesn't ohko all the time. I'd be inclined to agree with you that Tyranitar isn't a counter but only because Focus Blast is a clean ohko not because of a stupid reason like it doesnt ohko all the time. You know Scizor's CB Bug Bite doesn't ohko 252/252 Bold Reuniclus all the time either. I guess that's not a counter either even though unlike Tyranitar it can actually come in on Focus Blast.

Latios: I HATE THIS FUCKER. GTFO Latios! This thing stupidly rapes my team even with Scizor. (And at one point Nattorei) It so easily picks off every member of my team it's just troublesome. I have strats to beat it of course but even those strats arent fool proof. This thing is so incredibly difficult to play around because of the monstrous power it possesses. The specs set literally wrecks every member of my team bar none. It can't be stoped as easily as other shit with Checks and I don't even know if this thing has counters. It's gotta go.
 
Reuniclus is just way way way too predictable to be a suspect IMO, not only in the sets it carries, but in the moves it will first use as well.

From lots of experience (I'm currently #1 on the ladder and in the top 10 with another alt) I'd say easily 85% of the Reuniclus run a CM set, and from those that run a CM set, easily 70% of the time the first move it uses is Calm Mind. If you can't play around such an obvious Pokemon with strategies like Encore/Sleep/switching to a powerful Bug or Dark user/Iron Head Jirachi (seriously why does no one else use this guy as a counter, he's my go-to guy for Reuniclus and I swear I've lost maybe twice in well over 50 match-ups).

The argument that he can run Trick Room and is therefore hard to counter because he's unpredictable just doesn't hold much ground in reality I find, simply because of how rare the set is. Let's be honest when you face Reuniclus the first thing you think of is switching to a Pokemon that can counter the CM set, not deliberating which set it's running (unless maybe it's on a team with P-2, Bronzong, and other slow shit). And besides if it switches in on a physical attack, it's a pretty obvious give-away as to what set it's running.

Yes it's definitely powerful and you need to prepare for it, but what separates it from broken shit like Landorus is that, although not on paper, in reality Reuniclus is very easy to play around. And what separates it from that fucker Latios is that you at least have TIME to react to it, before it rapes half your "counter's" health.

Something this predictable and that actually has solid counters doesn't deserve an Uber nomination, and is why I will never vote it Uber.
 
I'm not so sure about Latios. Yes, he can OHKO almost anything with Specs DM, but this presents a problem in itself - after using DM, Latios is at -2 SpA. So what, you might ask - he can simply switch out, rinse, repeat. Except if you death fodder'd something to DM, then you get a free switchin. And since -2 DM isn't particularly scary and gets weaker with every hit, you get an easy setup opportunity. On my current team, I tend to sac something that's performed it's role already, then send in Lucario or, if SR has been spun, Volcanora. But there are plenty of other pokemon that become immensely powerful after only one turn of setup, and Latios DMing like there's no tomorrow supplies a prime setup opportunity. It's not simply a matter of 'who can take his hits' - you need to think of the opportunities you gain by allowing Latios to cut his SpA in half. I'm not necessarily saying he isn't broken, but it's not quite as cut and dried simple as people seem to think.
 

PK Gaming

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Reuniclus is just way way way too predictable to be a suspect IMO, not only in the sets it carries, but in the moves it will first use as well.

From lots of experience (I'm currently #1 on the ladder and in the top 10 with another alt) I'd say easily 85% of the Reuniclus run a CM set, and from those that run a CM set, easily 70% of the time the first move it uses is Calm Mind. If you can't play around such an obvious Pokemon with strategies like Encore/Sleep/switching to a powerful Bug or Dark user/Iron Head Jirachi (seriously why does no one else use this guy as a counter, he's my go-to guy for Reuniclus and I swear I've lost maybe twice in well over 50 match-ups).

The argument that he can run Trick Room and is therefore hard to counter because he's unpredictable just doesn't hold much ground in reality I find, simply because of how rare the set is. Let's be honest when you face Reuniclus the first thing you think of is switching to a Pokemon that can counter the CM set, not deliberating which set it's running (unless maybe it's on a team with P-2, Bronzong, and other slow shit). And besides if it switches in on a physical attack, it's a pretty obvious give-away as to what set it's running.

Yes it's definitely powerful and you need to prepare for it, but what separates it from broken shit like Landorus is that, although not on paper, in reality Reuniclus is very easy to play around. And what separates it from that fucker Latios is that you at least have TIME to react to it, before it rapes half your "counter's" health.

Something this predictable and that actually has solid counters doesn't deserve an Uber nomination, and is why I will never vote it Uber.
Reuniclus isn't predictable the are using are predictable. It still doesn't change the fact that once players start adapting to your team(IE: attacking the switch in) you'll find that Reuniclus is signifcantly harder to counter.

Funny thing about Iron Head Jirachi, i've seen players (there was this one match in the SPL...) lose 1 on 1


Oh and Trick Room exists. You can't ignore the set because i've seen being used several times by the top players. Both sets require different approaches to countering it.

PS: I'm going to nominate Parasect just to spite you John.
 
-2 252SpA+ Specs DM from Latios to, lets say, Blaziken, does enough so that it'll get one turn of damage on something and then die (assuming Life Orb Blaziken).

This is ignoring the fact that Specs isn't the only thing Latios can run. In fact its versatility makes it very dangerous in itself.
 
I'm not so sure about Latios. Yes, he can OHKO almost anything with Specs DM, but this presents a problem in itself - after using DM, Latios is at -2 SpA. So what, you might ask - he can simply switch out, rinse, repeat. Except if you death fodder'd something to DM, then you get a free switchin. And since -2 DM isn't particularly scary and gets weaker with every hit, you get an easy setup opportunity. On my current team, I tend to sac something that's performed it's role already, then send in Lucario or, if SR has been spun, Volcanora. But there are plenty of other pokemon that become immensely powerful after only one turn of setup, and Latios DMing like there's no tomorrow supplies a prime setup opportunity. It's not simply a matter of 'who can take his hits' - you need to think of the opportunities you gain by allowing Latios to cut his SpA in half. I'm not necessarily saying he isn't broken, but it's not quite as cut and dried simple as people seem to think.
I think your team is just really well-suited to setting up on Latios, and you're just facing bad players. First of all, what on earth are you talking about regarding a "free switchin?" Any smart Latios player is going to switch out after that first Draco Meteor, not stick around to hit for a second time: even if it means finishing off the Pokemon you just hit, a smart Latios player knows it's worth conserving DM PP, and that putting yourself in a position with -4 Special Attack is just stupid.
 
Reuniclus isn't predictable the are using are predictable. It still doesn't change the fact that once players start adapting to your team(IE: attacking the switch in) you'll find that Reuniclus is signifcantly harder to counter.
That's why it's called prediction. Any stupid newb can play a Reuniclus but only a smart player can play Reuniclus successfully. When it comes right down to it you need to play around Reuniclus to beat it. But playing around it is incredebly easy to do and with a little prediction and power you can break through it easily.

@Chris P. Bacon

....I think you did the Calcs wrong somewhere. 252atk +0 Adamant Technician Choice Band Bug Bite is doing 99.1% - 116.5% to 252/252 Bold Reuniclus.

I wasn't gonna give you shit about Bug Bite. I agree with you that it's viable and it's so incredably fun to mind fuck your opponents into thinking you got superpower.

Edit: I see where you went wrong. You put the +1 and choice band on the same calc. Take off the +1 and try again.
 

PK Gaming

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When facing Rankurusu I find it hard to play around it if good players are using it. You can bring in a check, but a smart Rankurusu user is switching out instantly, and is only coming in when his checks are dead / gone.
How exactly do you play around Reuniclus without using the checks/counter I listed? Honest answer here.

Edit: I guess you use CB Dragonite... but again I'd honestly just switch out.
 
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