WhiteQueen
the queen bee
I look forward to making 40-50 people ragequit on the ladder, obtain the required reqs, and vote ban on this assclown.
Conkeldurr will have to go from OU just like Heracross from RU, the guts + flame orb set has been buffed ever since the burn damage was nerfed. Besides, Heracross easily replaces conkeldurr as a guts wallbreaker, even though it has a lower attack, lacks priority and lacks drain punch.Conkelldurr is truly a wallbreaker with no switch-ins. Facade, Drain Punch, Knock Off and Mach Punch along with Guts boosted attacks, Latias, Togekiss and Starmie aren't switching in anytime. Bulk Up and just all out attacking sets put massive holes in stall. However, while the beginning of this thread mentions "despite it's low speed" makes it seem like speed isn't too much of a problem, it really is. This low speed compounded with it's low special bulk easily leaves it as bait for special-attackers like Starmie, Latias, Togekiss and much more. While most special-attacking threats can't switch in to Conk, they can just come in and threaten it out or use it as setup fodder. There are ways to play around Conkeldurr, as the user of Conkeldurr still has to predict around switches and such. While "it has no switch-ins" or "drain punch recovery" are common arguments to prove conkeldurr should be banned, standard pokemon like Primarina that arent just slapped on a team just to check conk are able to come in after Conkeldurr gets a KO and forces it out or revenge kill it. The way to play around Conkeldurr is not to switch things in. Pick a sack, then deal with it. "Oh but if a Pokemon requires the opponent to pick a sack it's broken!!!!!". Plenty of pokemon in the UU metagame require picking a sack: Primarina, Volcanion, Hydreigon, Darmanitan but they aren't broken. NO BAN for conk.
Yeah, besides Heracross will take it place as it's banned from RU now (due to a similar reason) and it'll reclaim its UU spot from last gen. Xurkitree is mehThis nigga gets it.
Anyway, as stated above, Conk hits like a truck, has above average bulk, powerful priority moves, and worst of all, NO SWITCH INS. Ghost types? Wrecked by Knock Off. Fairies and Fying types? Rocked by Facade. Anything else? Get smacked with Drain Punch, Conk heals up, and you're back to square one except with one less mon. Honestly, the burn nerf this gen really did wonders for Conk, as it turned a decent bulky attacker into the second best wall-breaker in the tier (behind Xurk). Honestly, there really isn't anymore to say and this is a very easy decision for me. Ban the clown on roids!
But seriously though, Xurk needs to go, too
Lmao that base 83 speed is what makes people ditch the z-hypnosis or z-electric terrain set and use a choice scarf set instead even though scarf xurkitree is awful. From what I've seen on the ladder, the scarf set is somehow becoming more popular.this is the conk suspect but I am going to go crazy if I hear this sentiment about xurk echoed one more time
Xurkitree will sweep your team in such a manner if you decide that positive natured base 83 speed is something you cannot reach. That is a conscious decision you make when building your team. It's not really a mystery or something all that complicated: if you are not able to defensively check xurk adequately, you can bring something faster than it to make it less of a threat. This isn't a revolutionary concept - stall teams have been bringing offensive mons (duggy, scarf/band ttar, weavile) for a very long time.
Okay. I'm going to dissect this piece by piece. I don't get how it lacks coverage when HP Ice/TBolt/Grass Knot covers the entire metagame aside from Kyurem. That doesn't make any sense. I also don't get when you say it's "slow af" when the whole point of the set is to "wallbreak" as you say. Not Sweep. Ofc it's slow but that doesn't have any relevance to its actual purpose as a set. Walls are generally slower than Xurk, so why does it matter.Yeah, besides Heracross will take it place as it's banned from RU now (due to a similar reason) and it'll reclaim its UU spot from last gen. Xurkitree is meh wallbreaker in UU tbh, lacks strong coverage on the psychium z set and the tg + 3 attacks is slow af.
No? Choice Scarf is a trash set. It fails to outspeed Mega Aerodactyl, It can't use one of Xurk's main advantages as a Wallbreaker, it's great coverage. It's the other way around. People use Psychium Z and Z-Electric Terrain because it can clean late game, takes advantage of Xurk's strengths, and allows you to switch moves while also helping to mitigate its mediocre speed. If you had paid attention to the UU meta at all lately you would realize these trends. I hate to call you out but your post is factually inaccurate.Lmao that base 83 speed is what makes people ditch the z-hypnosis or z-electric terrain set and use a choice scarf set instead.
You obviously didn't read my post correctly, I was reffering to bad coverage on the psychium z set not the tg + 3 attacks set. So I'm going to dismiss your reply because of that, since I cba rephrase myself if you don't know how to read.Okay. I'm going to dissect this piece by piece. I don't get how it lacks coverage when HP Ice/TBolt/Grass Knot covers the entire metagame aside from Kyurem. That doesn't make any sense. I also don't get when you say it's "slow af" when the whole point of the set is to "wallbreak" as you say. Not Sweep. Ofc it's slow but that doesn't have any relevance to its actual purpose as a set. Walls are generally slower than Xurk, so why does it matter.
I honestly don't get your line of reasoning of how it could possibly be a "meh wallbreaker"
No? Choice Scarf is a trash set. It fails to outspeed Mega Aerodactyl, It can't use one of Xurk's main advantages as a Wallbreaker, it's great coverage. It's the other way around. People use Psychium Z and Z-Electric Terrain because it can clean late game, takes advantage of Xurk's strengths, and allows you to switch moves while also helping to mitigate its mediocre speed. If you had paid attention to the UU meta at all lately you would realize these trends. I hate to call you out but your post is factually inaccurate.
P.S. see how I did one big post instead of two small ones?
I mean, Weav is still fairly manageable without Conk. It's still incredibly frail and still has several checks such as Scizor and mons like Scarf Infernape. Its too frail to be seriously broken, and most things in the meta can live at least one hit from it and OHKO back most of the time. Conk is a very solid check to it tho.I can see why people would like conkledurr banned but to me it just allows weavile to have one more check removed
"Broken checks broken", which is what you're implying, is a fallacy though. And in general, if the overall presence of a Pokemon in the metagame is unhealthy, you vote to ban it, no matter if it keeps like one potentially other broken thing in check. Being a Weavile check didn't stop Buzzwole from getting banned either, for instance. If Weavile ends up becoming broken because of Conk's potential banning, then just suspect/ban Weavile afterwards. It's that simple.I can see why people would like conkledurr banned but to me it just allows weavile to have one more check removed
The viability rankings simply just have to do with how well a pokemon fares in the current meta. For example, Xurkitree, a massive threat to defensive teams and a questionable healthiness, is ranked not ranked extremely high due to how it is invalidated by offensive playstyles; a mon that threatens an entire playstyle is unhealthy for the meta, and conkeldurr is even more threatening due to its ability to pick off weakened threats with mach punch. Aerodactyl, while a dangerous mon, has its checks and counters, such as bulky water types, and has 4-moveslot syndrome. Furthermore, Mega-Aerodactyl can help stop Xurkitree from demolishing a balanced team. A pokemon's rank does not necessarily define its healthiness.Ok, admittedly, I don't play UU much, so I'm not exactly some giant expert on the meta. But wouldn't suspecting something in S or A+ like Mega Aerodactyl make more sense than testing a Pokemon in A tier? It's not that I don't think that we should suspect Conkeldurr, it just seems like there are more threatening things ATM.
Hera and machamp are both deadly to stall, and although conk obviously fills the role better, the only thing machamp really lacks over conk is recovery from drain punch. If conk gets banned, I wonder if we'll see machamp fill those spots to handle stall.The real thing being suspected here is flame orb + guts with the burn nerf.... Machamp, Heracross, and now Conkeldurr.
Machamp is a solid BL2 imo, but it definitely will be used after Conk leaves.Hera and machamp are both deadly to stall, and although conk obviously fills the role better, the only thing machamp really lacks over conk is recovery from drain punch. If conk gets banned, I wonder if we'll see machamp fill those spots to handle stall.
I think the problem with your post is that you list a lot of things that are inaccurate or irrelevant. Conk typically runs Mach punch, drain punch and facade, with one filler slot which is usually either bulk up, Knock off, or ice punch. Thunder punch and poison jab aren't really relevant since a SE hit will do only slightly more than guts facade. Conk pretty much will never run EQ. Conk is also not a counter for latias, who KOs with a psychic move and a small amount of prior damage. Aero can be killed by Mach punch, but it needs to have taken a good amount of damage prior. Same deal with xurkitree. Both can pick off conk with respective stab moves.Hello, today I've decided to give my thoughts on Conkeldurr and whether it should be banned or not.
If Xurkitree is the tiers special wall breaker, then this is its physical counterpart. Guts Facade on Conkeldurr hits incredibly hard thanks to Flame Orb. Other moves such as Ice Punch, Knock Off, and Poison Jab allows Conkeldurr to counter usual checks such as Mega Audino, Gliscor, and Sylveon. Conkeldurr also poses a decent bulk with 105/95/65 base stats. Stab Drain Punch also gives Conkeldurr a reliable recovery, which counters the burn damage by Flame Orb. However, faster pokemon such as Starmie, Mega Aero,, Celebi, and Togekiss, can easily revenge kill Conkeldurr before it can go on a sweeping spree. Conkeldurr also has low SpD bulk, which can leave it vulnerable against bulkier special sweepers such as Volcanion, Magneton, and Pelipper if it doesn't have Thunder Punch.
Overall though, do I think Conkeldurr should be banned? Honsetly no, its offensive capability allows it to check other threats such as Crawdaunt, Amoongus, and Latias. It also makes for a reliable check against Scizor with Fire Punch. If Conkeldurr gets banned, then the top dogs in UU (Scizor, Latias, and Mega Aero) will all have one less possible counter, causing them to run even more rampant than before. It will also cause Xurkitree to worry about one less threat than before (because of Earthquake), and Xurkitree doesn't have that many relialbe counters to begin with due to Energy Ball. And if Heracross is coming to UU, then Conkeldurr's ban will immediately go in Heracross's favor because of Fire Punch, and being another Guts user, Heracross will basically continue what Conkeldurr started. Even though It's strong, I think Conkeldurr's capability and ability to check other pokemon that would be incredibly threatening without it makes it healthy for the UU tier.
I felt like this post was interesting as a whole but this part is contradictory. You're basically saying that the only way to deal with Conkeldurr is pressuring it offensively but you also say that offensive playstyles will get much better if it leaves. Aren't bulkier teams the ones that are threatened by Conkeldurr the most ? Wouldn't it be beneficial for them if Conkeldurr left ? I do agree that Weavile and Sharpedo will get better if there is one less threat to revenge kill them but as a whole it seems obvious that bulky teams will greatly appreciate Conk's departure whereas offensive teams get one less huge threat to use. My issue with Conkeldurr is that it threatens every single playstyle, the only difference is that it might require to win a 50-50 agaisnt offensive teams (Mach-Punch/Facade 50-50s in Latias/Primarina match ups for instance) but even then it's still able to get hits off (which are nearly impossible to tank for frailer teams) vs many different popular threats such as Scizor, Cobalion, Weavile and so on. The metagame has shifted in a way that makes Conkeldurr incredibly threatening regardless of the style it's used against. Most ghost types are mediocre and you need to scout for Knock off if you want to switch them in which is usually very hard to do, those are not counterplays at all. We do have things that can tank Mach Punch and deal with Conkeldurr but obviously none of those things can come in and many of them can easily be put into Mach Punch range. I'd also like to point out that Pursuit's overwhelming popularity makes Psychic types way easier to play around thus making Conkeldurr even more threatening.Conkeldurr is a great wallbreaker, one with great neutral coverage in just a few moves that pressures a lot of teams, but there's enough in UU to keep Conk in check offensively and I feel like it doesn't deserve a ban at this time. I plan to play more and achieve reqs before making my decision but that’s my initial thoughts. Without Conkeldurr in the tier, offensive playstyles will get that much better as there is one less quality priority user to check threats including Weavile, Mega Sharpedo and more.
The problem I have with your post / logic is that Smogon collectively decides not to ban something because it will possibly keep other top threats in check. If Conk is ban worthy, it will be banned; if (and that is a big if) other pokes like Scizor and Latias become broken bc of the lack of conk, then the community will take a look at those pokes (and suspect them if needed) when that time comesHello, today I've decided to give my thoughts on Conkeldurr and whether it should be banned or not.
If Xurkitree is the tiers special wall breaker, then this is its physical counterpart. Guts Facade on Conkeldurr hits incredibly hard thanks to Flame Orb. Other moves such as Ice Punch, Knock Off, and Poison Jab allows Conkeldurr to counter usual checks such as Mega Audino, Gliscor, and Sylveon. Conkeldurr also poses a decent bulk with 105/95/65 base stats. Stab Drain Punch also gives Conkeldurr a reliable recovery, which counters the burn damage by Flame Orb. However, faster pokemon such as Starmie, Mega Aero,, Celebi, and Togekiss, can easily revenge kill Conkeldurr before it can go on a sweeping spree. Conkeldurr also has low SpD bulk, which can leave it vulnerable against bulkier special sweepers such as Volcanion, Magneton, and Pelipper if it doesn't have Thunder Punch.
Overall though, do I think Conkeldurr should be banned? Honsetly no, its offensive capability allows it to check other threats such as Crawdaunt, Amoongus, and Latias. It also makes for a reliable check against Scizor with Fire Punch. If Conkeldurr gets banned, then the top dogs in UU (Scizor, Latias, and Mega Aero) will all have one less possible counter, causing them to run even more rampant than before. It will also cause Xurkitree to worry about one less threat than before (because of Earthquake), and Xurkitree doesn't have that many relialbe counters to begin with due to Energy Ball. And if Heracross is coming to UU, then Conkeldurr's ban will immediately go in Heracross's favor because of Fire Punch, and being another Guts user, Heracross will basically continue what Conkeldurr started. Even though It's strong, I think Conkeldurr's capability and ability to check other pokemon that would be incredibly threatening without it makes it healthy for the UU tier.