Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 1 - Oops!...I Did It Again

[HydreigonTheChild]

100 is not a literal number in this instance. I just find recovery pokemon and stupid hard walls like Garg/Dodonzo to be extremely annoying. Every gen has had them and tera helps to take those walls out. Healing and stacking buffs is just horribly uninteresting to me and my hope was that this gen would depart from that and so far it has but if tera is banned I fear it'll just become Gen 8 II electric boogaloo and I'm not for that.

(Got swept 6 0 by a dodonzo in-between these replies even.. maybe i'm the problem)

Recovery spamming is ez to take advantage of.... its 8pp lol if u struggle with healing spamming then run offense to burn them out of it... if u struggle with setup sweepers or crit me not sweepers then run unaware or taunt/roar or just overpower them. This gen is pretty different with so much unique mons... u cant block defog in gen 8, u dont have magic guard to sponge status, and you do not have reliable recovery on a lot of pokemon, and hazards are prominant... like this is not gen 8 in the slightest.

If you got swept by dondozo then you lack pokemon to force it out or duel with it like other dondozo, rotom-wash, specs dragapult with thunderbolt, amoonguss, breloom, mixed iron valiant, meowscarada, and certain teras can beat it or force it out.... that is a teambuilding problem

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

Good yes lets ban a fun and interesting new mechanic so we can get back to games lasting over 100 turns while we stall eachother to death.
Feels like nobody is considering tiering Pokémon based off how well they can do with tera. Chien Pao being the central arguing point..
Why not just ban Chien Pao if you think that he's too problematic when he teras? I see them in every other game but I don't struggle with them I tend to just try to draw them into a bait.

The last few gens have been absolute boring stallfests and this generation will become the exact same thing if tera gets banned. I should see this statement as dissuasion enough to not ban tera but the fact that most folks run 3+ stall pokemon with recover moves it seems like that is what people like. Experimentation with Tera instead of relying on the same two best tera types for each pokemon has led to by far the most enjoyable battle experience i've ever had with this franchise. I'll go with whatever tier tera gets sent to but I strongly urge against it's ban.

Because if Chien-Pao is banned, people will just find the next best thing to use Terastalize with. Simple as that. Also, if the next best thing gets banned, then the cycle will only repeat. How many mons would need to be banned thanks to Terastalization before it becomes obvious that Terastalization is the real problem?? And how many mons would need to be banned before Terastalization could be considered healthy??? Because I would consider that akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I would bring up the Gen 8 Doubles metagame and its Dynamax suspect, where much the same questions were being asked. All this being said, Chien-Pao needs to get the banhammer anyway, but that's another topic for another day.

TL;DR Terastalize will always have a broken abuser.

 

[Seronius]

Now that I've gotten reqs I'll give my thoughts on Tera as a strictly casual (Noob) ladder player who joined Smogon during the start of gen 8.

While laddering for reqs I never really found myself losing because someone tera'd into a unpredictable type. I feel like once the meta game has run its course, you will know what type every viable mon wants to tera into. That being said one Pokemon (Iron Valiant) has convinced me that some sort of action has to taken for both the casual and serious player base to be satisfied.

When I see Iron Valiant on a opposing team I hate that its a 50/50 between it being special and physical and this is probably the same feeling that others in the community have when they want some sort of action taken against Tera. People hate how unpredictable it is because even if u play better or have a better team match up 1 mon using tera can sway the whole strategy or battle. Pokemon is already a game of RNG, if the council or community can do something to make the game less RNG or more competitive I think those options should be explored.

As a casual fan, I'm worried that if a majority wants no action on tera and nothing changes. one month down the line in SPL, someone is gonna break the game with some Overpowered Tera Strat and the OU Council is gonna quickban tera.

I will now list my choices in order and the reasoning why I choose the actions.

1.Show Tera-Types At Team Preview- VGC is already doing this and u can still tera any of the Six. It keeps a lot of the fun of tera.

2.Ban Non-Stab Tera- I think Gamefreak really wanted you to change your type to cover the weakness of any given Pokemon, not go the same type and have a super STAB Nuke.

3. One Designated Tera User Per Team- This option isn't bad I just think its gonna boil down to strong attacks going Super Sayian.

4.Outright Ban- This is the worse option. I wanna keep tera by any means.

 

[emperiod]

Because if Chien-Pao is banned, people will just find the next best thing to use Terastalize with. Simple as that. Also, if the next best thing gets banned, then the cycle will only repeat. How many mons would need to be banned thanks to Terastalization before it becomes obvious that Terastalization is the real problem?? And how many mons would need to be banned before Terastalization could be considered healthy??? Because I would consider that akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I would bring up the Gen 8 Doubles metagame and its Dynamax suspect, where much the same questions were being asked. All this being said, Chien-Pao needs to get the banhammer anyway, but that's another topic for another day.

TL;DR Terastalize will always have a broken abuser.

It could certainly have a less broken abuser, though.
Not that I personally mind Chien-Pao mind you.

 

[Bakugames]

thank you finch for making this a 3 week suspect, I am getting my ass beaten studying for a test.

I will try to get reqs, though I'm not sure I'll be successful (I'm not that good of a player! I don't mind it, we all start somewhere etc but I like being realistic), but if I do, I will probably vote for tiering action and team preview, if antything because I just think it's a neat feature that should be implemented. I don't care for tera that much otherwise though

 

[BlueLion32]

I think Tera should be Banned.

*Long Rant Alert*

Until the metagame solidifies more, and possibly even when it does, Terastallization should be at least restricted, as on certain mons (cough cough Annihilape cough cough Espathra) It is very strong and sometimes game defining. I get having things that win games. A swords dance Garchomp can sweep my team, a calm mind Espeon can steamroll me. But losing to those things is more due to skill issue that anything else, while Terastallization is highly unpredictable, sometimes overpowered, and hard to play against if you don't know what's coming. Being able to gain any STAB type or enhance one of your existing STAB types, while gaining all the benefits of a typing's defensive capabilities is very, very good. Ultimately, because there is realistically no one terra type a mon is guaranteed to run, it becomes a guessing game where you have to be ready for any type at any time and because of the limitations that team building has, that isn't possible in a lot of cases. Pokemon is inherently a guessing game, yes, but at some point there becomes so much of it that just having knowledge is not enough, and some random thing can fuck up your whole game. In the case of Tera, at least in my opinion, it is impossible to have the knowledge to win the game every game. You might try a strategy that normally works in your situation, but then your opponent's mon changes type, and your strategy is then irrelevant. You can maybe predict what type might be coming sometimes, but realistically it is not possible to predict and have options for every type on any pokemon, because even if you do have the right coverage for a type, that pokemon may die because they do not matchup well against the opponent's mon. In the end, it is too much guesswork, and Tera turns the game into a glorified casino. In my opinion, Terastallization makes many bad pokemon good, and good pokemon broken, and most of those good, broken mons aren't very fun to play against. I don't have fun playing against it. It's a cool concept, but ultimately too good to stay.
If it were to stay, I would say it would be healthiest to show Tera types in team preview, because then it creates a more even playing ground, but even in this case some types on some pokemon may be impossible to play against depending on team composition.
In the end, the meta would probably be healthier without Tera in it, so I think Tera should be outright banned.

Tl;dr: Terastallization is overpowered, and I want it gone.

 

[KM]

Once again, I cover this in the part of the post which you choose not to address:

Srn said:
"Tera is just like megas, or z-moves, or items or lure sets! If we can keep those, why can't you deal with tera?"

Tera is fundamentally different in that it has no opportunity cost and has no tell. Megas take up your item slot and are very predictable (If I see a garchomp+lopunny on my opponent's team, 99% of the time its regular chomp and mega lop). Z-moves take up your item slot and you must dedicate only one user in the teambuilder. Lure sets tend to be subpar when they're not doing their job. Weird items can be scouted, knocked off, tricked, and have obvious opportunity costs. Unlike all of the above, you can choose the most advantageous tera in every game. If your tera has
a bad matchup, just don't use it. Or wait until a point in the game where its matchup improves. The flexibility and low cost of tera make it far more comparable to dynamax than it does to anything else mentioned imo.


I am not treating this as a sudden and unforgivable disruption, because I am well aware lure sets exist. And as you have already stated, the surprises that tera enables are far more impactful. However, they are also far less predictable. It's one thing if this silly little ttar holds a silly little chople berry, it's another thing entirely when the kingambit can tera fairy, flying, ghost, or remain dark/steel at any turn as I'm trying to keep it under control. Or hell maybe it'll tera fire and ignore this will-o-wisp. Oh and there's no indication of what tera type they've chosen because only the builder knows how the tera types of 6 mons have been appropriated to cover teambuilding holes. Hopefully that tracks with you, let me know if I was unclear anywhere.

i didn't reply to this part earlier because it falls into the same exact hole as the other part. tera does have an opportunity cost (both in the builder, wherein choosing one tera type means you aren't choosing the others) and in game (where you can only tera one pokemon). tera does have a tell (if your opponent sends out a kingambit against a scarfed CC user, it suggests ghost / fairy tera in the same way of someone using a chople mon). once again, the only way you can reasonably view these as "no opportunity cost, and no tell" is by using the standards of generations or metagames in which tera does not exist. i'm not going to repeat myself further but my point remains essentially the same.

 

[Srn]

i didn't reply to this part earlier because it falls into the same exact hole as the other part. tera does have an opportunity cost (both in the builder, wherein choosing one tera type means you aren't choosing the others) and in game (where you can only tera one pokemon). tera does have a tell (if your opponent sends out a kingambit against a scarfed CC user, it suggests ghost / fairy tera in the same way of someone using a chople mon). once again, the only way you can reasonably view these as "no opportunity cost, and no tell" is by using the standards of generations or metagames in which tera does not exist. i'm not going to repeat myself further but my point remains essentially the same.

Yes, technically tera has an opportunity cost in the sense that literally any choice you make in the builder has an opportunity cost. I don't really consider this to be an opportunity cost, rather just the baseline of decision making when you are building a team. Yes, running earthquake on my lando-t has an """opportunity cost""" in that I take up a moveslot that could run something else but nobody is really gonna tell me running eq on lando-t has an opportunity cost lmao. Likewise, are you really gonna spin the 1 use per game of tera as an opportunity cost? That's the built-in limit of the mechanic. Tera is so flexible that you get to choose the best time to tera and you can minimize the opportunity cost down to very little regardless.
So enough nitpicking about opportunity cost. Both you and I know that tera has a far lower opportunity cost than the other lures you are referring to.

Now, let me explain what I mean by "no tell." In past generations you can look at a team that, for example, looks very weak to alakazam and then make an educated guess that "hey this tyranitar is probably chople berry to cover this weakness." That kind of guess can be made by the opponent simply by looking at your 6 mons and nothing else.

But tera types are a whole other beast. For example, let's say that I have a great tusk and a kingambit on my team and I'm trying to decide what tera types to use on them. If I want my great tusk to be able to check chien-pao in an emergency, I can go tera fight and remove my ice weakness+power up my body press. That could give me the opportunity to go tera flying on kingambit. However, maybe I want my great tusk to instead improve the rain matchup and tera grass to resist grass+water+ground. That leaves me more exposed to chien pao, so maybe I oughta go tera fairy on kingambit instead of tera flying.

The entire decision making process I just described is something only the teambuilder will know. There is NO way to guess this at team preview.
You have no idea if they decided to go fight+flying or grass+fairy. And why does this matter? Because the counterplay for kingambit is WILDLY different depending on what type it turns into. Tera flying kingambit is vulnerable to ice shard from chien pao, but tera fairy isn't. Tera fairy can lose to scizor bullet punch, but Tera fire won't. Tera fire can absorb wisp but is still weak to ground, but tera flying isn't. I can go on, you get the point.

To directly allude to your example, it's not just ghost/fairy tera that you have to worry about. It's ghost/fairy/flying AND fire because removing your 4x fighting weakness is impactful enough that it's a viable option in this scenario too. You have no idea which of 4+ types it can turn into or when it will do so. This is what I mean by "no tell."

Finally, you keep telling me that I'm falling "into the hole" of using the standards of past generations to judge tera. Please do tell then, what new standards should I use? And why do they make more sense than the old standards?

 

[antithroh]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm a casual player and as such might not have as much knowledge of the meta or competitive appeal as actually competitive players

I think that some action taken is the preferable outcome.
In order I'd rank the options:
1.Reveal tera type at team preview. I put this as the best option because I don't think tera is inherently broken in the fact that you can change your type but in the unpredictability of what that type could be. Revealing the tera type removes that uncertainty and allows players to play around the given type on each seperate mon.
2. 1 tera user per team. I don't think this is quite as good as revealing the type but still thinks that it's better than the other alternatives. If you know what mon can tera then that removes the uncertainty of terastalizing other mons but you still have to be careful with the one mon you know can tera and you still don't know what type it will tera into.
3. no action/outright ban. I don't think that no action is a good idea. It means that all the uncertainty of "will that mon tera or maybe that mon", and "what type will it be" is all still in play and honestly just encourages me to click a button and hope I was right. I also think an outright ban is on the same level. I only put them on the same level because of alternative options, with the options of revealing tera type in team preview and 1 tera user per team I don't think that a full ban is called for.
4. Only stab tera types allowed. Looking through this thread among the people who don't want a full ban this seems to be popular at the bottom of the list, and I agree with that. only allowing stab tera types only makes things worse. This overall only benefits offensive mons and maybe mons that would like to shed a couple weaknesses.

Really I think that it's not the fact that a pokemon could change its type that's the problem but the fact that any pokemon could change to any type. If you know what type a pokemon could become then it removes a large part of that problem, so does knowing what mon can tera. I've played a significant number of OU games this generation and rarely are my games decided by terastalization. I do however think that removing the guessing guessing game of what type will it terastalize to for cases like powerful set up mons and the rare instance where a single right move somewhat early on completely decides the game is a good idea.

 

[Finchinator]

As a casual fan, I'm worried that if a majority wants no action on tera and nothing changes. one month down the line in SPL, someone is gonna break the game with some Overpowered Tera Strat and the OU Council is gonna quickban tera.

We will never outright quickban a generational mechanic that has been around for months like this. This has never happened before and never will happen. It will always require a community suspect.

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

It could certainly have a less broken abuser, though.

It COULD, but I ask again, how many other mons would need to get banned before we get to that point?? Because I think a lot of mons would need to get banned before that... at which point it's gonna be blatantly obvious Terastalization was the real problem. What's more, this is not even taking HOME into account, after which everything needs to be retested. Honestly, I do not think any of the alternatives to a ban are gonna work; we'd just get a repeat of Gen 6 and Baton Pass. Therefore, I think a ban is the only solution.

 

[ApertureB]

It could certainly have a less broken abuser, though.
Not that I personally mind Chien-Pao mind you.

*Stares nervously at pokemon home*
If tera aint banned or severely limited this gen will have the most mons suspected/banned of any generation ever lol.

 

[alephgalactus]

*Stares nervously at pokemon home*
If tera aint banned or severely limited this gen will have the most mons banned of any generation ever lol.

Depends how you count them. Last gen had anywhere from 13 to 24 bans depending on how you count them (repeat bans, unbans, and initial box Legendary quickbans are all factors). This gen we’ve had 4 so far, I can count at least 4 more potential ones pre-Home if Tera stays (Annihilape, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Espathra), plus 2 or 3 more whether Tera stays or not (Gholdengo, Chi-Yu, and potentially Cyclizar unless they ban Shed Tail as a move). Then, once Home comes, I can see at least Regieleki and possibly Basculegion (or Last Respects) getting the boot. That’s 13 if all of those bans go through. I imagine this has to be incredibly wearying for the people organizing the suspect tests, so let’s try to go easy on them.

 

[Qaos-System]

‖ː‖`I think that Terastalisation is just unhealthy for the meta-game due to it forcing what are essentially guessing-games as you're playing. I feel that it can be illustrated fairly well with an example. Let's say that the opponent has a Skeledirge on the field, 'n' you need it gone to set-up one o' your mons to sweep their team. Imagine, for the sake o' the example, that the mon that you have out has Earthquake + Crunch + Poison Jab + Swords Dance. You know that it has Will-O-Wisp + Slack Off, so if you don't kill it in one hit you likely won't be able to kill it at all. If you click Earthquake, the Skeledirge might Tera into a Grass-type 'n' live the hit. If you click Crunch, it might Tera into a Fairy-type. If you click Poison Jab, a move super-effective on both Grass 'n' Fairy, it could just not Tera at all. 'N' you can't Swords Dance to boost past it, 'cause it has Unaware, which ignores stat-changes. Switching to a different mon doesn't help either, 'cause the scenario just repeats with different moves 'n' different Tera-types. At this point, you just have to guess what they're gonna do, 'cause all three options could either win or lose you the game depending on what your opponent does. Personally, I think that it should just be banned altogether, though I feel that banning non-STAB Tera is the next best option. Also, I think that revealing Tera-types isn't a good option, since that's a major deviation from how the game functions on-cartridge, though I would prefer taking that option over nothing. I know that banning a Generation's core mechanic will likely be extremely controversial, but it happened last Gen so I don't see why it couldn't happen 'gain now.`‖ː‖

 

[ApertureB]

Depends how you count them. Last gen had anywhere from 13 to 24 bans depending on how you count them (repeat bans, unbans, and initial box Legendary quickbans are all factors). This gen we’ve had 4 so far, I can count at least 4 more potential ones pre-Home if Tera stays (Annihilape, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Espathra), plus 2 or 3 more whether Tera stays or not (Gholdengo, Chi-Yu, and potentially Cyclizar unless they ban Shed Tail as a move). Then, once Home comes, I can see at least Regieleki and possibly Basculegion (or Last Respects) getting the boot. That’s 13 if all of those bans go through. I imagine this has to be incredibly wearying for the people organizing the suspect tests, so let’s try to go easy on them.

My point is that if tera stays as is we could easily have 10+ additional mons needing suspects at the minimum. Its really easy to see how unhealthy this mechanic is.

Plus its current centralizing the meta to near pure HO anyways so its visible on every end of the spectrum. Dont know if that will change once the obvious needing to be banned mons such as fish go but i dont think it will change that much because their will always be a mon waiting in line to abuse this mechanic.

 

[Vall]

My point is that if tera stays as is we could easily have 10+ additional mons needing suspects at the minimum. Its really easy to see how unhealthy this mechanic is.

Plus its current centralizing the meta to near pure HO anyways so its visible on every end of the spectrum. Dont know if that will change once the obvious needing to be banned mons such as fish go but i dont think it will change that much because their will always be a mon waiting in line to abuse this mechanic.

Eh? The post you replied to couldn't list more than like 6 pokemon that could even be considered broken due to tera. Which sure, that's a noticable amount, but isn't to unreasonable considering how important the mechanic is. Any time something new is introduced a pokemon can use, there will be abusers. Six isn't that much imo, especially considering that not all of those mons will be banned.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

tera does have a tell (if your opponent sends out a kingambit against a scarfed CC user, it suggests ghost / fairy tera in the same way of someone using a chople mon). once again, the only way you can reasonably view these as "no opportunity cost, and no tell" is by using the standards of generations or metagames in which tera does not exist. i'm not going to repeat myself further but my point remains essentially the same.

ok... but what if kingambit forces out such as a weakened volcarona... and forces in a mon... now how do you guess the tera... they haven't given away any info on what it can be.... you may be able to force it out but you may not as well so if you bring in something such as iron valiant you may be able to cc it and you may be unable to because of its tera.. etc etc.... like if ur being predictable around it ofc they are gonna be catching on to you... but how are you supposed to know if they aren't telegraphing it to you

 

[Stads]

Just finished collecting reqs with Voltage's Gholdengo Hstack team (here for reference: https://pokepast.es/145f10c29d076e60). Definitely leaning action for now, but not sure if I prefer outright ban or tera type in team preview, sort of like VGC.

First, just going to say that I think the suspect process didn't really work for me. Grinding through most of low to mid ladder with a very sturdy stall team didn't really show me tera being limit tested at all. In the 48 games, I saw only 4 Cyclizars (with only 1 being played well) and 1-2 Espathra's, and with these being some of the biggest ways to abuse tera to its fullest, I'm left wondering if I really understand the true meta this mechanic will create. I know this isn't the time or place to get into it, but I hope once the dust settles this gen, there's some open conversation about the pros and cons of the current suspecting process and we see if we can't somehow improve it.

Otherwise, I can definitely see situations where tera type at team preview would help. Certainly quite a few times where opponents would probably have beaten me if they knew about Tera Flying Gholdengo or Tera Dark Corviknight. But in general, I feel the impact would have been low, since usually, tera was getting used in fairly predictable ways. On the flip side, the climb convinced me that 1 mon can tera per team would be a bad change for the meta, helping offensive teams far more than defensive ones. There were quite a few times when the opponent used their tera on a powerful breaker like Chien-Pao, and with some hax or smart play, it was able to muscle past my normal checks to it. But then, I was able to use my tera on something else to let it unexpectedly survive a hit and revenge kill, saving my game. In these kinds of situations, I wasn't heading into the game expecting that kind of tera, but being able to adapt on the fly gave me the dub. I think those situations will apply far more to defensive teams in general, since they're usually the ones on the receiving end of hax and are more responsive in general, and taking that away with 1 mon can tera per team will just make this generation more HO and stall focused with how much harder role compression becomes.

Last, just a general thought; does anyone else with reqs want to actually test out some of the restriction-but-not-ban options in some battles? I know it won't be very rigorous, but it might be nice to playtest that idea just a little bit to inform the voting more.

TLDR; STAB Tera only and 1 mon can tera per team are both bad, because they'll probably help offence more. Leaning outright ban, maybe tera type at team preview.

 

[Finchinator]

First, just going to say that I think the suspect process didn't really work for me. Grinding through most of low to mid ladder with a very sturdy stall team didn't really show me tera being limit tested at all. In the 48 games, I saw only 4 Cyclizars (with only 1 being played well) and 1-2 Espathra's, and with these being some of the biggest ways to abuse tera to its fullest, I'm left wondering if I really understand the true meta this mechanic will create. I know this isn't the time or place to get into it, but I hope once the dust settles this gen, there's some open conversation about the pros and cons of the current suspecting process and we see if we can't somehow improve it.

Generally speaking most people who grind through reqs do so due to interest in the generation or the metagame and, therefore, have prior experience firsthand or secondhand. It is safe to say that a 30-50 game sample size is insufficient to draw sweeping conclusions on important topics, but assigning even more in terms of games/reqs will minimize participation and alienate people, which is already an issue with suspects as is for other reasons.

The best remedy to this is simply saying that we are likely to have another suspect on Tera in the future if deemed appropriate and there was time before this one, there will be time between the two, etc. to help people draw conclusions.

All things considered though, this is a very fair point as you frame it as it is true that solely participating on the lower ladder for a suspect is not alone enough to necessarily draw a strong opinion. I implore you to keep playing, posting, reading, etc. if you want to dig deeper into the metagame.

 

[Stads]

Generally speaking most people who grind through reqs do so due to interest in the generation or the metagame and, therefore, have prior experience firsthand or secondhand. It is safe to say that a 30-50 game sample size is insufficient to draw sweeping conclusions on important topics, but assigning even more in terms of games/reqs will minimize participation and alienate people, which is already an issue with suspects as is for other reasons.

The best remedy to this is simply saying that we are likely to have another suspect on Tera in the future if deemed appropriate and there was time before this one, there will be time between the two, etc. to help people draw conclusions.

All things considered though, this is a very fair point as you frame it as it is true that solely participating on the lower ladder for a suspect is not alone enough to necessarily draw a strong opinion. I implore you to keep playing, posting, reading, etc. if you want to dig deeper into the metagame.

Thanks for replying! I agree that approachability and accessibility are extremely important pros of the current method, and should absolutely be maintained for any potential changes.

For just a bit more context, while getting the Melm reqs, I really felt like I learned that Melm was not broken along the way. And yet, even with ~700 gen 9 OU games in total from the start, I think I have so much to learn more about Tera. I guess it might just be my inexperience informing this outlook, perhaps the 'not knowing' from the Tera climb is far more typical of the suspecting process, and I'm just not as used to that yet!

 

[Sneakyplanner]

I get that it is a lot to ask OU players to play a lower tier, but my experience with UU is the reason why I don't think that a full ban is needed. With one Espathra sized exception, tera is not a problem at all in UU and it makes the game much more interesting both to play and build for. It would be even less of an issue if you could see tera types in team preview and be able to do things like bait suboptimal teras or just be sure that sludge bombing that Azumarill won't lead to you losing the game and your dignity. The problem is a bunch of OU-specific pokemon that are just the best abusers of tera, not the mechanic itself. Get rid of Annihilape, Chi-yu and Espathra and then the problem is gone, there's a reason nobody has been complaining about tera-fire Arboliva making the game unfair.

 

[Saltytears]

Eh? The post you replied to couldn't list more than like 6 pokemon that could even be considered broken due to tera. Which sure, that's a noticable amount, but isn't to unreasonable considering how important the mechanic is. Any time something new is introduced a pokemon can use, there will be abusers. Six isn't that much imo, especially considering that not all of those mons will be banned.

Thanks to tera chien,chiyu,dnite,moon,kingambit,dpult,ape,garganacl,turbo bird are outright broken , once dlc/home are released you can easily add stuff like mage,tran,kart,lele,melme,urshifu,zygarde,eleki,ultra beast,dracovish and more, even some stuff like arctozolt/dracozolt could turn broken with adaptability boltbeak or terra fire/ice after banning that package people will abuse the next best thing to end up with half the offensive pokemon pool banned ....

Honestly I don't even know how people defend the tera mechanic with any viable argument outside "its fun" "gen8 bis sneezefest" shit is broken,add rng on an already heavily rng gameplay pokemon is based on,throw game plan and teambuilding out of the window , force 50/50 situations/turn some endgame into guessing ones .

 

[serif_Aizawa]

I believe Tera's unpredictability and variance is really unhealthy, though I think there's currently worse in the metagame that should've been gutted prior like Cyclizar and Chi-Yu. I'm working on reqs but if I had to rank my picks:

Tera in Team Preview >>>>>>> Outright Ban >>>>>>>>>>>> everything else

 

[Lobby Eeveee]

After thinking, I now am in the restrict/ban camp

Good yes lets ban a fun and interesting new mechanic so we can get back to games lasting over 100 turns while we stall eachother to death.

Good yes lets keep a broken mechanic that forces guessing and can turn the whole game around just because you guessed wrongly.

Ok, now what about my preferences?
6: Ban Tera blast
5: Ban non-STAB tera
4: Ban STAB tera
3: Limit to 1 Tera user per game
2: Reveal on team preview
1: Outright Ban

BANNING TERA BLAST:
This one is obvious. The Tera abusers could simply find different moves and not be reliant on Tera. Most Tera abusers out there (Dragonite, Dragapult, etc) do not need to rely on Tera blast.
BANNING NON-STAB TERA:
This does cut down on mind games, but it will make nukes (Chi-Yu for example) even stronger. You cannot simply tera into a type that resists the nuke and survive a hit.
LIMIT TO 1 TERA USER PER GAME:
Some Tera Users are so powerful that they are still alright even if they are the only one that can Tera. It does not tell what is their Tera, or when they will Tera.
REVEAL ON TEAM PREVIEW:
At first, I did not prefer this as a skilled player could work out the enemy’s tera type from team preview, and that it doesn’t tell us when it will Tera. However, I realised you could just slap on an off-meta Tera and can easily turn the whole game around. No team can prepare for all 16 Tera Types of every threat, but this allows players to easily formulate a game plan.
OUTRIGHT BAN:
This is my number 1 option. It is the only option that eliminates mind games. While Tera is fun, it does not mean it is balanced in competitive singles. Even if you know their Tera, you have to guess when they Tera. You know that dragonite runs normal, chi-Yu in a sun team runs fire, but never when they tera. Srn has already explained it well enough.

 

[swampmist1142]

Thanks to tera chien,chiyu,dnite,moon,kingambit,dpult,ape,garganacl,turbo bird are outright broken…

i think the argument is that atleast 4 of those (chiyu, chien, ape and dnite) are potentially broken irregardless of tera