NP: UU - Silent Night

[elchupo]

Speaking of concept teams, tried to make a team based around Sub+Set up and Priority. I had a Muk that could make 101HP Subs with Curse and Shadow Sneak, A Lickilicky that could also make 101HP Subs with SD and Return/Fire Punch, and to cap it off I had a SubCM Spiritomb that could take both Psychic attacks aimed at Muk and Fighting attacks aimed at Licky.

It failed. Torterra of all things was it's undoing. But I think its salvageable. Any ideas for teams mates?

Also, has anyone found a use for Lickilicky? That thing most definitely has the potential to be UU, and not just for the ultimately pointless SD Explosion.

 

[Delko]

Also, has anyone found a use for Lickilicky? That thing most definately has the potential to be UU, and not just for the ultimately pointless SD Explosion.

Here.

 

[bombiron]

jamashawalker's special defensive wall/cleric

 

[Scoopapa]

Speaking of concept teams, tried to make a team based around Sub+Set up and Priority. I had a Muk that could make 101HP Subs with Curse and Shadow Sneak, A Lickilicky that could also make 101HP Subs with SD and Return/Fire Punch, and to cap it off I had a SubCM Spiritomb that could take both Psychic attacks aimed at Muk and Fighting attacks aimed at Licky.

It failed. Torterra of all things was it's undoing. But I think its salvageable. Any ideas for teams mates?

Also, has anyone found a use for Lickilicky? That thing most definately has the potential to be UU, and not just for the ultimately pointless SD Explosion.

I don't really recommend having so many pokes that need multiple turns of setup in order to cause damage. The point of a bulky setup poke is generally to setup late in the game when you've finished off their best counter, so they won't be able to damage you fast enough to finish you off. As such, one (maybe two if you really want) is usually plenty, and it should be paired with pokemon who can do more immediate damage. Also it's tough to use Substitute effectively on something slow like Muk, since you can't block status unless you predict a switch to a status user, and it's not a "safe" move if you're getting hit before you sub. The way people usually use Substitute on slow pokes is to pair it with Focus Punch and/or Sucker Punch. That said, not all Sub+setup pokemon are slow and bulky. Here's a list of some effective Sub+setup, Sub+focus punch, or other sub users.

Kangaskhan
Mismagius (Nasty Plot) / Mismagius (Calm Mind)
Rhyperior
Alakazam (3 Attacks) / Alakazam (Encore)
Lanturn
Azumarill / Poliwrath
Sceptile
Moltres (fuck yeah)
Jynx (Nasty_Plot) / Jynx (Calm Mind)
Rotom (Charge Beam) / Rotom (Pain Split)
Cacturne

It's not an extensive list, but those are some good ones. You probably don't want to make a team with just 6 pokemon from that list, though. You might want something with a Choice Band/Specs to blow holes in the opponents team early on, or perhaps support pokemon to lay down hazards. If every pokemon is spamming sub your team will lose to anyone with an iota of prediction. Toxic Spikes is difficult in UU due to Venusaur, but it would certainly work wonders beside Substitute.

 

[uragg]

well after all that hype about weezing it's still 27th. I guess most people realized that committing a teamslot to a physical wall that's trying to patch up its special defense yet only carries a weak STAB for offense isn't worth 'countering' Venusaur.

 

[Bluewind]

To be honest there was no hype. It is the most all around reliable answer to Venusaur but just doesn't fit any team like Milotic or Venusaur do. If you're running a team more focused on bulk (read stall), you clearly will find it more useful than if you're running an offensive team.

 

[Meru]

I dont understand all the problem with stall is boring its just another playstyle.. just like offense. If you want to maximise ur wins then use stall in the ladder and youll win most of the time..
I like to win so yea i consider winning fun, if your one of those people that play to have fun instead of winning then you can try one of those retarded hail fad teams.

Meh I find it more that we don't have the tools to run stall than stall being boring.

I want Umbreon back. There's not a whole lot that beats Taunt/WoW stallbreaker Mismagius

And while we're at it, Tentacruel would be a nice drop down for Stall.

 

[elchupo]

well after all that hype about weezing it's still 27th. I guess most people realized that committing a teamslot to a physical wall that's trying to patch up its special defense yet only carries a weak STAB for offense isn't worth 'countering' Venusaur.

I don't know about anyone else but a combo of Weezing/ Chansey is a pain in the ass. Quick Feet Ursaring is about the only thing that can switch into both and get rid of them.

 

[uragg]

I don't know about anyone else but a combo of Weezing/ Chansey is a pain in the ass. Quick Feet Ursaring is about the only thing that can switch into both and get rid of them.

A few things that can beat them:

• NP Houndoom can 2HKO Chansey at +2 and sets up easily on Weezing
• Offensive Arcanine destroys both, but might die to Chansey's fat-ass recoil.
• Mixed Blaziken OHKOs with Fire Blast/Superpower respectively
• Sub Rhyperior comes in easily on Chansey (avoid Toxic) and then kills both.
• SubCM/SubNP Mismagius has a field day.

That's off the top of my head. As you can see, Milotic patches up quite a few of these holes, which is why Weezlotic was so potent of a tandem.

 

[Head Smash]

And while we're at it, Tentacruel would be a nice drop down for Stall.

I'd probably use the SD set before anything else. 100 base Speed is pretty impressive.

 

[Red Ink]

I'm of the opinion that specially defensive Early Bird Kangaskhan is hilariously funny to switch in to most Venusaur. SubSeeders are a pain in the ass, but I've seen so few of them. Physical Venusaur is reasonably easy to counter, especially with the likes of Tangrowth.

As for Weezing / Chansey, uragg has posted some good options. Beat Up Dugtrio is always going to break the pair by eliminating Chansey with ease. Altaria can start to set up on both of them (I was seeing a lot of Altaria the other day too), and subCM Entei can actually beat Chansey too.

SD Exeggutor haha.

 

[Sir Azelf]

Meh I find it more that we don't have the tools to run stall than stall being boring.

^ This.

It takes far too many slots at the current time for stall to be effective. :/

Umbreon and Lass going up basically killed it and the stall teams ive seen so far to be fair are kinda not really good. Too much stuff beats them. A good example is "Do i run 2 ghosts and kill my covering of threats or one and then Foresight Hitmontop/Toise craps all over me?" There are just too much stuff that puts you in between a rock and a hard place. You're basically screwed either way.

UU is very stale so i really cant wait until new stuff gets moved down next month then it might have more options. That and hopefully Crobat gets retested -still hates fucking overpowerful grass types- lol

 

[elchupo]

A few things that can beat them:

• NP Houndoom can 2HKO Chansey at +2 and sets up easily on Weezing
• Offensive Arcanine destroys both, but might die to Chansey's fat-ass recoil.
• Mixed Blaziken OHKOs with Fire Blast/Superpower respectively
• Sub Rhyperior comes in easily on Chansey (avoid Toxic) and then kills both.
• SubCM/SubNP Mismagius has a field day.

That's off the top of my head. As you can see, Milotic patches up quite a few of these holes, which is why Weezlotic was so potent of a tandem.

But Twave from Chansey cripples all of them bar Rhyperior, and Weezing can handle him. They may be able to beat them but they can't just switch in to either with impunity. Whats more, it's difficult to break the "Bring in Special Attacker, Opponent switches to Chansey, Bring in Physical Attacker, Opponent switches to Weezing" cycle. Quick feet Ursaring with SD or Guts Ursaring, despite being a Physical Attacker, gets through Weezing by Sheer force with STAB Facade.

 

[Shnoogle]

None, other than that it was what I was looking at when I thought of the set. Lapras could run the same set I suppose - maybe it's worth a test.

At any rate, here's the set: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2884695&postcount=785

Dude, I used that set I think it was 3 rounds ago and it raped! I ran 252 Def instead of Special Defense, though. I used a Bait-Lix to bait out Water Types like Milotic so Gatr can have an easier time sweeping. Haha I remember using BandTomb that round while it was still undiscovered. I'm not the best player, but that team's surprise value got me to ~1600 CRE which is great in my book.

On a more serous note, I really agree with FlareBlitz that people should start exploring more Pokémon than the standard ones. I mean, as FB already said, we aren't going to be voting on anything in UU more than likely this round and most likely the next etc... until Black and White come out. Why do you think Exeggutor has seen so much use this round? Because a brave soul by the name of Legacy Raider had the balls to try out a seemingly sucky NU Pokémon (at the time lol). If more people actually did stuff like this then the metagame would be much more enjoyable and less stale as many people think it currently is, and to an extent that is true. I mean, isn't the reason that half of you play UU because OU just doesn't do it for you due to reoccurring Pokémon and much less room for creativity than UU has?

Eh, I could go on but I'll stop here

 

[Flashrider57]

It takes far too many slots at the current time for stall to be effective. :/

Umbreon and Lass going up basically killed it and the stall teams ive seen so far to be fair are kinda not really good. Too much stuff beats them. A good example is "Do i run 2 ghosts and kill my covering of threats or one and then Foresight Hitmontop/Toise craps all over me?" There are just too much stuff that puts you in between a rock and a hard place. You're basically screwed either way.

My stall team is actually pretty good. It's a sandstorm team, and the main StallCore consists of four Pokemon: Hippopotas, my own version of Gligar, a Cacturne with Sub/Flash/Sucker Punch/Focus Punch, and a ResTalk Curse Regirock. The other two members are a cleric and a Special Attacker, but the StallCore is the main part. I've seen other great stall teams recently, too. Hopefully, you'll see a good one, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[Rolf]

To name a few names, August and Eo have both been spamming stall this round to amazing success. Eo almost hit a CRE of 1800 o.o Stall is definitely not diminishing in force.

In other news, Milotic tops the charts at #1. I think I basically called it in my MegaMilo post last round - pretty much everything I said in there has only gotten stronger. Milotic is definitely the dominant force in today's UU and I still have reason to believe it's suspect...

 

[elchupo]

I just faced the stalliest team that ever stalled, and it was a bitch. Yeah, stall is still very much alive. Registeel, Chansey, Spiritomb AND Slowbro, pretty damn near impossible to take down.

 

[Bluewind]

The aformentioned team is pretty much begging to be raped by so much stuff (Houndoom, Rhyperior, Scyther with minor support, Dugtrio, SD Venusaur to mention some) that it isn't even funny. A bunch of defensive pokémon randomly thrown together doesn't make a stall team.

And it was franky who first posted about Exeggutor lol, but LR popularized it with his RMT using Leftovers instead of LO.

 

[capefeather]

On a more serous note, I really agree with FlareBlitz that people should start exploring more Pokémon than the standard ones. I mean, as FB already said, we aren't going to be voting on anything in UU more than likely this round and most likely the next etc... until Black and White come out. Why do you think Exeggutor has seen so much use this round? Because a brave soul by the name of Legacy Raider had the balls to try out a seemingly sucky NU Pokémon (at the time lol). If more people actually did stuff like this then the metagame would be much more enjoyable and less stale as many people think it currently is, and to an extent that is true. I mean, isn't the reason that half of you play UU because OU just doesn't do it for you due to reoccurring Pokémon and much less room for creativity than UU has?

See, this is what I was talking about before. People ARE using NUs and what-not. They've been doing so quite readily for the last year. Legacy Raider used Exeggutor not because he "had balls" but because he wanted to use Exeggutor on his team. Exeggutor was never that terrible a choice, anyway.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Venomoth can really tear up the tier right now... it has such useful resistances and its stats are just enough for it to be able to do enough damage and take the hits you want it to. It doesn't have Yanmega's attacking stats (116 SpA / 95 Spe vs 90/90) but it does have the same key 4x resistances to Fighting and Grass, while not being 4x weak to SR and also having a useful Poison resistance that makes it an excellent Venusaur check. Bug Buzz is the only attack you really need with Tinted Lens, and you can use the other slots to play around with Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / U-turn / Roost / Toxic Spikes / Psychic / Sludge Bomb. I've found a double powder set works great as a lead, as it stops basically everything with its fast Sleep Powder and hits Uxie/Mesprit super effectively with its powerful Bug Buzz. Play around with the spread a bit and Venusaur won't trouble you during your matches in the slightest as long as you have something else to take your sleep. And it also makes a pretty great check for things like Hariyama and Hitmontop as long as you come in on their Fighting type moves. Roost may seem wasted on something with 70/60/75 defenses, but with its key resistances, speed, and support moves, Venomoth can really stick around and cause trouble for your opponent all day long.

ps I have balls :(

and franky used eggy a long time before i did, though he preferred it with LO while I always used lefties. I only made it 'popular' with my rmt.

 

[Meru]

I've been using Eggy all round. Aside from Registeel, he's really hard to switch into (Modest base 125 SpA w/ 140 base power STAB hurts. A lot.)

He's really easy to revenge though. A U-turn scares him out easily.

 

[Shnoogle]

See, this is what I was talking about before. People ARE using NUs and what-not. They've been doing so quite readily for the last year. Legacy Raider used Exeggutor not because he "had balls" but because he wanted to use Exeggutor on his team. Exeggutor was never that terrible a choice, anyway.

Well, I'm not saying people don't use them, not at all. It's just that the majority of people who are complaining about a stale tier aren't making much of an effort to experiment with different Pokémon to actually change things up a bit.

And sorry about that Franky and LR. I never saw Eggy on the ladder until after your RMT so I figured it was you who made it more popular =/

And yes, it does take balls to use a NU Pokémon in UU with certainty that it will do well.

 

[Flashrider57]

Venomoth can really tear up the tier right now... it has such useful resistances and its stats are just enough for it to be able to do enough damage and take the hits you want it to. It doesn't have Yanmega's attacking stats (116 SpA / 95 Spe vs 90/90) but it does have the same key 4x resistances to Fighting and Grass, while not being 4x weak to SR and also having a useful Poison resistance that makes it an excellent Venusaur check. Bug Buzz is the only attack you really need with Tinted Lens, and you can use the other slots to play around with Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / U-turn / Roost / Toxic Spikes / Psychic / Sludge Bomb. I've found a double powder set works great as a lead, as it stops basically everything with its fast Sleep Powder and hits Uxie/Mesprit super effectively with its powerful Bug Buzz. Play around with the spread a bit and Venusaur won't trouble you during your matches in the slightest as long as you have something else to take your sleep. And it also makes a pretty great check for things like Hariyama and Hitmontop as long as you come in on their Fighting type moves. Roost may seem wasted on something with 70/60/75 defenses, but with its key resistances, speed, and support moves, Venomoth can really stick around and cause trouble for your opponent all day long.

Thank you, LR! It's nice to see someone who really appreciates the usefulness of Venomoth. You pretty much said what I've wanted to say for a while. Go Venomoth!

EDIT: By the way, congrats in advance to whomever is going to make post #1000!

 

[M BLADE]

Oh please, i was using Exeggutor before anyone here.
A Curse Eggy, but still...

Seriously now: as you all know, i don't oppose using NU pokes at all. As long as it isn't something shitty (oh how i loved to use shitty ones lol) of course, and that fills some "exclusive" role; a role said poke can't be outclassed by anyone.

Think about Exeggutor, Ursaring, Primeape, Magmortar, Golduck (yes Golduck)... they're all unique in a way, and very useable in UU.

About stall teams: they're hard to handle if the player knows how to make and "managing" said team (example: a person that's not me). Of course you can't just throw 6 pokes and call it a day.

About the metagame: Well, looks that Heracross isn't going down. Salamence maybe has something to do with it. Or not.
And Umbreon is staying too...

Looks like we ain't getting something new to refresh the metagame.

Hey, thanks Flashrider57. I don't even pay attention to those numbers lol

 

[Shnoogle]

Think about Exeggutor, Ursaring, Primeape, Magmortar, Golduck (yes Golduck)... they're all unique in a way, and very useable in UU.

About stall teams: they're hard to handle if the player knows how to make and "managing" said team (example: a person that's not me). Of course you can't just throw 6 pokes and call it a day.

Haha made me laugh (Well, obviously if I said "Haha")

Speaking of Golduck, with a set involving Encore and Calm Mind +Surf and another attack, it is a very potent sweeper. Not to mention it's ability to really threaten Rain Dance teams, although it seems that their popularity is middling.

It can come in on Registeel and Encore Stealth Rock, it can come in on Kabutops and Encore SD, it can Encore Synthesis from Venusaur etc... and instantly have 433 Special Attack, 295 Speed, and a respectable 294 Special Defense stat