np: XY UU Stage 0 - I Lived

[kokoloko]

Hello and welcome to the first and only UU Beta np thread. This is the last step towards making UU an official tier and begin dropping suspects back into UU from BL. One more vote and one more tier shift (on March 1st) will take place before Stage 1 and the tier. Please take a look at the Tiering System Info thread before posting here.

Discuss the metagame.

Song.

That is all.

 

[Kingpoleon]

The metagame is really fun right now. Versatile, underrated threats are fun, and the current meta supports it. We have the underrated dragon Kyurem(who loved the Bisharp ban), the stop to physical setup Quagsire, and enough BO to make it really fun. This is the most uncentralized meta I have seen since BWRU/NU, which both didn't encourage versatility as much as they did using 6/50 Pokemon 95% of the time compared to current UU using 6/54(?) 45-65% of the time. The rest of the teams are extremely original. Stall has been stalling for a meta like this, HO is being hyped less than it should, and BO is a really solid, bulky archetype of team to use. Overall, I have had fun so far and hope that the rest of XYUU is as much fun as this so far has been.

 

[Joycdonnell]

so temporally all the BL pokes are come back to UU? or are we gonna vote to say which one gonna go back to UU one per one?

 

[666lumberjack]

so temporally all the BL pokes are come back to UU? or are we gonna vote to say which one gonna go back to UU one per one?

Everything in BL will be tested in UU, one Pokemon at a time, once the tier goes live. For things almost certainly broken like Kyurem-B, the test may be very short, whereas for borderline cases such as Weavile it may be significantly longer, depending on how long it takes the council to decide they are ready to vote on it. They will either vote to keep things BL or to unban them. The intention of this is to make every round of UU as fun to play as possible, rather than having some fantastic metas and some terrible ones as we had in BW.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Everything in BL will be tested in UU, one Pokemon at a time, once the tier goes live. For things almost certainly broken like Kyurem-B, the test may be very short, whereas for borderline cases such as Weavile it may be significantly longer, depending on how long it takes the council to decide they are ready to vote on it. They will either vote to keep things BL or to unban them. The intention of this is to make every round of UU as fun to play as possible, rather than having some fantastic metas and some terrible ones as we had in BW.

Also, to add to this post, they will be tested in order from least likely to be broken. So something like Weavile will likely be one of the first tested, whilst something like Kyurem-B will probably be one of the last to be tested. This is all in the Tiering Info thread anyway.

 

[EonX]

Well, I guess something to discuss would be the current state of Mega Evolutions in UU. With the recent banning of Mega Gardevoir and Mega Medicham, which Megas have you guys been using lately? Me personally, I've found Mega Manectric to be very effective ever since the start of UU Beta. Volt Switch, Intimidate, base 135 Special Attack and Speed, and a strong cleaning move in Thunderbolt allows Manectric to be one of the best all-around offensive Megas in the tier imo. It can sweep, it can support, it can wallbreak. There's so many things it can do and bring to the table, and I seem to always find a need for it in every battle.

 

[Schpoonman]

I fucking hate Mega Manectric. I've had trouble in literally every tier I've played against him (even if it's just OU and UU) except when I've employed Sticky Web support. Speaking of Sticky Web support, it turns Crawdaunt into an unholy nightmare. Jolly Crawdaunt outspeeds base 105s and slower (Mienshao) and Knock Off and Crabhammer damn near 2HKOs the tier. Physically defensive Chesnaught and Megaggron are the only two Pokemon that I can think of that comfortably stomach either of those moves.

 

[Oglemi]

If you're not using Mega Aggron you really need to rethink and try again. The only thing I can liken it to in past generations is DPP UU Rhyperior. It comes in, tanks literally everything, sets up Stealth Rock, and continues to not care as it either phazes out your opp or crushes them with Heavy Slam. The only thing it's lacking is the sweeping potential and sheer power, though it has plenty of oomph. It is so ungodly good I hardly see a reason to use any other Mega at this time lol, unless you're going with the HO teams in which case I can give you Mega Manectric or Mega Houndoom.

I've been using a fully specially defensive 252/252 spread on Mega Aggron on a stall team and it's beautiful. It's such a complete stop to so many things, stuff like Roserade, Crobat, Florges, Umbreon, and Chansey are all just squashed. I've found you don't even really need Attack investment to be effective either, OHKOing most Florges and Froslass with Heavy Slam, 2HKOing a whole chunk of other mons. I'm not even running RestTalk either and it's on a stall team (relying mostly on Wish passing from Florges but w/e it ain't perfect), and I haven't found a need for it. I'd rather get as much use out of Heavy Slam + DTail + Toxic I guess.

I haven't played without MegaCham and Diggersby in the tier, but I can only see Mega Aggron being that much better.

I'd argue that Mega Aggron is even better on balance teams than Mega Blastoise, but it largely depends on your team I guess. I'd rather have a Mega Aggron + Blastoise physical core, particularly with Darmanitan and Haxorus and shit running around.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Everything in BL will be tested in UU, one Pokemon at a time, once the tier goes live. For things almost certainly broken like Kyurem-B, the test may be very short, whereas for borderline cases such as Weavile it may be significantly longer, depending on how long it takes the council to decide they are ready to vote on it. They will either vote to keep things BL or to unban them. The intention of this is to make every round of UU as fun to play as possible, rather than having some fantastic metas and some terrible ones as we had in BW.

one of the other things is that the overpowered shit that's usually at the end will likely be OU by the time the council gets around to testing them (things like landorus, kyubey and manaphy come to mind wrt this)

yeah meggron is god-amazing, it was one of the more solid answers to diggersby (although it still sucked somewhat: sd diggersby could OHKO which is something). now that diggs and megacham, the two best physical sweepers, are out of the tier, meggron is pretty good at handling every other physical sweeper out there. it wont be as good as chansey handling special attackers due to lack of recovery, but in exchange he can threaten from the get-go with heavy slam and eq

 

[Tralf]

I'm somewhat new here but how good is Tornadus-T in here? even if he was previously uber during gen5

Sorry for the silly question :P

 

[Ernesto]

In my experience against it, it's really good, both with the Specially-based mixed LO set (Hurri / Knock Off / U-turn / Focus Blast | Taunt) and the physical set with no item (Acro / Knock Off / U-turn / Taunt). It is like a bulkier Mienshao when it comes to outlasting its checks, which are basically Aero, SpD Aggron and Zapper with the others dependant on the set, while the no item set acts as a good check to Fighting-types due to only really fearing Stone Edge on the switch.

 

[Royalty]

If you are using hurricane/focus blast then wide lens is also a pretty good option on specially based Torny-T but ngl I prefer regular Tornadus with defiant for that set.

 

[Sartory]

A Knock off ban should be tested against the return of pokes that received a power spike from the buff and consequently banned. Also Chansey would be fairly game-breaking in a Knock-Off less environment, so that needs to be taken into consideration as well. Even against megas that can't lose their items, the base power alone is ridiculous.

 

[MatrixMedic]

UU has been mad fun recently. As said before Mega-Aggron is a monster, and probably my favorite mega of the tier. Also is it just me or is Heliolisk blisteringly fast with max speed+timid? It surprised me by outspeeding an unburdened Hawlucha and OHKOing it with a specs thunderbolt.

 

[User 468572]

I absolutely LOVE the current UU metagame. It is quite similar to Gen5OU sans the permanent weather. I think this is how Gen6OU would have been if Megas had not been introduced. On to specifics!

The tier is quite balanced, with powerful physical attacker such as Entei and walls to make up for it. However, I don't understand some of the bans, such as Weavile. In all my battles, I found Weavile quite underwhelming; it can't take a hit without a sash and can't deal much damage without LO. I ended up ditching it.

All in all, I love the tier.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Welp, hopefully Weavile and Mega Hera come back. Any idea what the criteria will be to vote?

 

[Mazz]

Welp, hopefully Weavile and Mega Hera come back. Any idea what the criteria will be to vote?

Public voting won't commence until XY UU becomes official (it's still in beta stage at the moment), and even then Weavile and Heracronite will have already been retested by the UnderUsed council. For anyone requiring references on public voting, or any council decisions, please keep an eye on this thread. kokoloko and the rest of the council are currently answering questions as to how said decisions are being made. This thread is for discussion of the metagame, not how the council is planning to manage it (such is the purpose of the linked thread).

On a totally different note, I've ran into some people forgoing items to keep Knock Off at a weaker base power. Obviously this is a shit idea (just use Mega-Aggron), but if there were a Pokemon that could pull it off, which Pokemon could do it? Note; I don't know if Unburden would still activate this way (probably doesn't, otherwise someone would have thought of this already).

 

[Arkian]

On a totally different note, I've ran into some people forgoing items to keep Knock Off at a weaker base power. Obviously this is a shit idea (just use Mega-Aggron), but if there were a Pokemon that could pull it off, which Pokemon could do it? Note; I don't know if Unburden would still activate this way (probably doesn't, otherwise someone would have thought of this already).

Personally, I have seen a lot of itemless Tornadus-T on the ladder since they also have access to a strong STAB Acrobatics to abuse. But honestly, this is a stupid idea because 252+ LO Crawdaunt, the most common Knock Off user, has a 12.5% chance to OHKO 4/0 Torn-T even without the boost in Knock Off !_! This obviously becomes a guaranteed chance with SR and/or CB.

Speaking of which, Tornadus-T is a great Pokemon in today's metagame. It's an excellent pivot/lead thanks to Regen + U-turn and a super speedy Taunt, respectively. Tornadus-T hits fairly hard with all of its moves since it gets nice coverage in Air Slash/Hurricane, Superpower/Focus Blast, Heat Wave, and Knock Off. It does have bit of 4MSS and isn't the strongest mon, but nevertheless, it can gain quite a lot of momentum and just be a pain in general to deal with.

 

[atomicllamas]

On a totally different note, I've ran into some people forgoing items to keep Knock Off at a weaker base power. Obviously this is a shit idea (just use Mega-Aggron), but if there were a Pokemon that could pull it off, which Pokemon could do it? Note; I don't know if Unburden would still activate this way (probably doesn't, otherwise someone would have thought of this already).

Yeah, unburden doesn't activate on item-less pokemon (although being hit by knock off activates unburden!). The only reason to ever go without an item on a pokemon is to have a powerful acrobatics right off the bat, Defiant Tornadus is a good example of a pokemon that can abuse this. That being said I would never run an item-less pokemon for the sake of lowering knock off's base power, as a 97.5 bp move is hardly game breaking, and the utility of having an item which you will probably keep in most games definitely outweighs opposing knock off losing 32.5 base power. Another cool response to knock off is justified, Cobalion, Virizion, and Absol pre-mega evolution all resist and benefit from switching into knock off. Justified should definitely be the chosen ability for all Absol pre-mega, as it loves a +1 attack boost, doesn't lose its item, and knock off is only 65 base power when holding a mega stone (and its other abilities have no real use). Virizion and Cobalion are both pretty bulky (mostly Cobalion) and also appreciate the attack boost. Of course Absol and Cobalion must be very careful switching into fighting type users of the move. Of course a Mega-Aggron is clearly the best switch in to knock off, doesn't lose its item and it has massive bulk.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Justified? Of the three at-all viable ones, 1. Why are you using Virizion? 2. Cobalion? 3. I concede pre-Mega'd Absol, but after Megaing it doesn't like to take them, and the common users of Knock Off can 2HKO Absol(Crawdaunt, Mienshao, Heracross, Ambipom, Krookodile). Virizion was not at all nerfed. It's just we got Chesnaught, who gets Spikes, Spiky Shield, Bulletproof, and everything Virizion has. Cobalion would be better if Crawdaunt/Absol didn't use Superpower and Bisharp was UU. I would like to point out, until you can show me one Pokemon that counters 2/3 or more of the Knock Off users, then please do not try to argue that removing an item with 97.5(185 for Crawdaunt) or 65(ONLY IF THEIR ITEM IS MISSING; 130 for Crawdaunt) BP is not broken. List of Knock Off users(may be updated):
Krookodile, Heracross, (Mega)Absol, Crawdaunt, (Currently Banned) Weavile, Ambipom, Machamp, and Empoleon.

 

[Shiny Minun]

Chestnaught can deal with Krookodile, Absol and Crawdaunt. However lacks a move to deal with heracross. Since hera resists both his stabs.
However, hera's knock off is not stab, so its not as threatening as the others. You guys have to remember 97.5 BP is basically dark type earthquake that drops your item, its insanely powerful.

However, with its leftovers gone, it can only switch-in to so many potential knock offs. So even when winning these exchanges, the opponent still cripples your Chestnaught, its not like thunderbolt where you can switch into an electric type to avoid getting paralyzed or switch into a cleric to heal off status, there is no equivalent so dropping items is in most cases permanent (besides recycle, but I could only see proygon2 or chansey running that) and a very powerful strategy, even if the move wasn't dark type earthquake.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Fire Blast Absol, SpecsDaunt(or LO with Ice Beam[I have seen it before, 95 SpAtk isn't too bad]), and no. Recycle is worse than no item, especially on the 4MSS Chansey/Porygon-2.
Other than that, I agree entirely.

 

[Shiny Minun]

Yeah I wouldn't be caught dead using recycle, but there is a way to "counter" an item drop even if it would just make knock off hit harder. Not to say there is no way around it, just that there's virtually no bad time to use it. I definitely would agree with a knock off subject test, especially with it being an MT last generation, it's a very wide spread move which in this gen has turned into a monster with buffs from every angle.

I guess Fblast absol and special crawdaunt do deal with the obvious (or more rather, forced) chestnaught switch in, but he still deals with majority of the sets and with pretty much any krookodile.

 

[Jvasss]

Please shut up about knock off. The council has voted on it and decided that it isn't likely to be potentially broken. The focus should be on what pokemon counter crawdaunt and mega absol etc, not that the move that they abuse should be banned. Also absol is way better if running playrough instead of knock off, kills Keldeo chesnaught and many other fighting types coming in to take the expected knock off.

 

[Kingler]

So I've been playing around a bit with stall in the meta, and it's quite good. I agree with Oglemi that Mega Aggron when supported right is an absolute monster. Even with Defog removing stall's hazards, Mega Aggron can actually do a number to Latias and if Zapdos Defogs its hazards, it can poison it with Toxic, so eventually it won't be able to consistently do so. Florges is a good Dragon counter and forms a very solid core along with Mega Aggron. It can also WishPass to Mega Aggron to compensate for its lack of RestTalk. Removing hazards for stall is easier than ever with a Defogger in Zapdos.
Overall, I'd say that stall has gained its buffs in UU and is quite solid due to new mons being able to cover a wide variety of threats.