ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[TheMasterOP]

Hoopa -> B this pokemon has a very good moverpool but is very fragile and slow in this rank would be fine as it has good offensive capabilities and exquisite moverpool.

Goodra B- -> C this pokemon despite having a very good both physically moverpool as special is in competition with Salamence, Hydreigon and dragalge these have better offensive capabilities and this pokemon is very slow and fragile for the physical side and I see it completely surpassed by Salamence and Hydreigon.

P.S : Sorry for my bad english .

 

[Ununhexium]

I've been preaching the Rotom-C nom for a long time full support this thing is amazing

 

[The Swan]

As a personal choice, I feel that Spiritomb should move up to B rank. With experience in battle with it, it functions quite well as a staller, mixed attacker, or even setup sweeper. Also, while Fairy type does make Spiritomb's typing less extraordinary on the defensive side, it is still a great defensive typing, forcing popular UU choices like Mienshao to U-turn, leading to either setup or an easy switch for you. Next up, its movepool. While I feel like Toxic+Infestation is way underrated, Spiritomb isn't limited to just those two moves, offering support like Will-o-wisp, sucker punch, and even memento. I've gotten some great results from both offensive and defensive Spiritombs, and it always seems like the opponent never sees it coming, especially with all the versatility it has. Please don't mistake Spiritomb as a low budget Sableye; it's great at keeping your opponents on their toes, and it doesn't need a mega slot to be defensive.

 

[The Swan]

My issue with Emboar is that I fail to grasp just how much better it is than other Fire and Fighting-types, most notably Infernape. You can talk about how Emboar has very few switch-ins thanks to its excellent coverage, but Infernape has an almost identical set of options. It's got the same STAB Pairing, along with access to Grass Knot, a move to hit FatMence (Hidden Power Ice), Thunder Punch, Stone Edge, and multiple other options. Infernape is also faster, which can compensate for its weaker offensive stats, since it can just hit switch-ins on bulkier teams twice. What's more, Infernape has Nasty Plot and the lesser-used Swords Dance, arguably making it the better stallbreaker anyway since it can boost on a switch in, something that Emboar can't really do.

And it's not just Infernape that competes with Emboar. If you want a Fire-type that can bust some heads, you might as well use Choice Band or Life Orb Darmanitan, which does huge damage to most switch-ins while being faster and having similar coverage as well. Entei is less useless against faster Pokemon thanks to Extreme Speed, and it can cripple switch-ins or walls with the incredible Sacred Fire.

There are, of course, better Fighting-types as well, including Mienshao, Heracross, and Cobalion. Heracross in particular gives Emboar a run for its money; it can switch in on more things and smash many walls with the right move, all while outpacing more walls.

Basically, even though Emboar is strong and has few switch-ins and whatnot, the same can be said of better Pokemon that can potentially do more than what Emboar does. It's a cool niche pick, but the tier is already overflowing with Fire and Fighting-types that make Emboar a mediocre option at best. I would unrank Emboar if I were in charge of the thread, because I've never really seen it do anything that isn't already done well by the tier's best 'mons.

I have to agree with you there. I feel like Emboar gets a lot of love because of a Reckless boosted Flare Blitz, but I've found that it rarely survives long enough to get that hit off. While it sports nice bulk in HP, it often relies on that, and if it does survive a hit in time, it often KO's itself from recoil, adding insult to injury. There are so many Pokemon that do Emboar's job better than it, like the aforementioned Infernape, which is faster, and brings more to the table, like a great Sp.A, (I know Emboar's is decent, but there's more to come.) a speed stat that can actually outspeed something other than a Reuniclus, and access to Stealth Rock, Grass Knot, all elemental punches; you know, things that don't rely on an ability. Overall, it's impossible to deny that Emboar hits hard, but it's a one-trick pony that relies on bulk to get its hits in, and with all the common threats that beat it in UU, it leaves many, stronger, faster, and better Pokemon to choose. (P.S., sorry if I screwed up the quoting system, still pretty new to the site.)

 

[rs]

For this, I think the only reason Exploud is in the rankings is because it has access to Scrappy and can just click Boomburst 100% of the time while Porygon-Z has to predict whether or not to click Tri-Attack or Dark Pulse on Choice Specs sets (if the opponent is using a Ghost-Type ofc). Even though I would definitely still use PZ, Exploud still has that niche as a Scrappy user and should stay C imo

Well rip Exploud I guess


As for nominations,

Venomoth (B+ to A-): I definitely agree with this one. With a combination of Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance (especially with a fantastic speed tier), and Tinted Lens, Venomoth can be one of the most potent sweepers in the tier. It's severely underrated atm because of its loss of Quiver Dance + Baton Pass, but at +1, it outspeeds the majority of the unboosted tier and with Tinted Lens, Bug Buzz hits like a truck. With QD and Bug Buzz, Venomoth also has the ability to run a sub set, Roost, or even another coverage move such as Sludge Bomb or Psychic to hit Chandelure or Cobalion for some big damage. I don't think many people will agree with this nom though because they haven't seen Venomoth in action (I've just been watching dodmen play and its always been a factor at some point), but before objecting they should watch some replays imo.

Hoopa (Unranked to B): I think B is a good place for it, it really reminds me of a slower but stronger Chandelure. The speed and its 4x weakness to Pursuit (especially with all the Krooks and Pursuit Aerodactyl's running around) really makes it hard for me to want to rank this thing higher than B.

Aerodactyl (B- to B): Regular Aero has seen a lot of popularity as of late as a suicide lead. I usually see it coupled with Swampert so it leaves you guessing what the Mega is since both regular forms are perfectly viable. Although I would still use Azelf just because of the power of Explosion > Double-Edge, it fills a nice role on hyper offensive teams (as leads like Azelf, Froslass, and Smeargle do), so I agree with this rising.

Froslass (B+ to A-): Froslass hyper offense has been really underrated as of late too. It's almost guaranteed to get at least a layer of Spikes up and trade a kill with the combination of Taunt + Destiny Bond each game with its fantastic speed tier. I definitely agree with Froslass rising as well @_@

No big opinion on Growth or Goodra

 

[Euphonos]

inb4 Omfuga ignores this one because it is the oddest nomination I've ever made

As odd as it may be, I'm going to declare my nomination for Marill to be put into the C-Rank of the Underused Viability Rankings. If you guys quickly dismiss Marill for its Base 20 Attack, think again. The biggest draw Marill has in the UU metagame is its ability to sweep under-prepared teams with Huge Power which can contest even Base 90's with a positive nature, plus its Water-Fairy typing which can help switch in to some attacks, especially Dragon attacks. As such, the biggest niche Marill can do in the UU metagame is to set up Belly Drum to a weakened Pokemon (which can be helped through the use of Memento, hence being a C-rank material). While it's Base 40 Speed leaves little to be desired as a sweeper, there is one priority move that can help Marill work its way through an opposing team, and it's no other than Aqua Jet. With all these positive traits Marill has, I will, again, declare my nomination for Marill being a C-rank-worthy Pokemon in the Underused tier.

Also, this link serves as a replay hub to showcase Marill's prowess.

 

[Omfuga]

I told you I would ignore a marill nomination beforehand..

While it's Base 40 Speed leaves little to be desired as a sweeper

I hope you mean that it's base 40 speed leaves much to be desired as a sweeper because in general, Marill leaves much to be desired as a pokemon.

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

Why are Mega Beedrill and Mega Aerodactyl in the same rank? MDactyl has comparable power, a higher speed tier, more useful defensive typing, actual bulk, Taunt, Defog, rocks, non-trash coverage options, and isn't walled by the most common mega in UU (itself).

 

[LeoLancaster]

Why are Mega Beedrill and Mega Aerodactyl in the same rank? MDactyl has comparable power, a higher speed tier, more useful defensive typing, actual bulk, Taunt, Defog, rocks, non-trash coverage options, and isn't walled by the most common mega in UU (itself).

Mega Aerodactyl doesn't get STAB Adaptability U-turn off of 145 base attack, which is Mega Beedrill's main draw (momentum is just that good, especially when it's that powerful). Also some of your points are a bit exaggerated, as Mega Beedrill has usable special bulk, and Knock Off and Drill Run are nice coverage options.

 

[jjoshcja]

MBee has useable special bulk only when it's compared to MBee's bones of glass skin of paper heart of soggy sawdust physdef. It is a really good mon but it does one thing and just drops to pursuit or priority with bebbles up. Mbee is also really limited in teambuilding, it really shows its true potential on exactly one team archetype.

By comparison MAero can be Eved to switch into and tank LO draco's, chew on stab SE priority, or chew scarfed super effective moves and ohko back pretty much anything with rocks up while maintaining is ability to outrun the entire unboosted tier or +1 gatr and it's sicknasty power, useful/10 utility, and a strong pursuit. It also has access to some pretty hilarious lure sets that let it feed on pretty much anything it wants to (though those sets do give up on utility). Maero makes any team not built around a different mega better, and can be slapped onto anything from full stall to all out kamakazi HO.

"I have 2 coverage options and U turn and I swap in on grass types, also I'm a momentum user that gives up free turns"

"I can hard/soft check most of the tier, while running every coverage/utility move you could ever want with fantastic typing and trapping"

TL:DR its a comparison between a strong but flawed mon and a mon that by nature is nonpunishable, no really, MAero made SRank when friggin slowbro was in the tier.

(that said im pretty sure MBee is more common than MAero now because "hype wow" and "omg must run 252+ speed maero", edit nvm, maero is still used more on high ladder)

Edit: I feel like viability is being confused for raw power, viability is a subjective measurement of "how usable" a pokemon is on any given team while raw power is "how strong" a pokemon is on a team made for it, and while there is definitely overlap they are not by any means the same thing.

 

[Mar1onette]

It is a really good mon but it does one thing and just drops to pursuit or priority with bebbles up.

name a pursuit trapper besides MAero that wants to come in and use pursuit against mega beedrill. Priority, mega beedrill can usually take 1 hit from it early game without hazards but yeah priority can destroy mega beedrill. don't really have an opinion on the rest that you said, just me nitpicking at this part.

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

252+ Atk Doublade Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 87-103 (32.1 - 38%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO

(calc ignores x2 damage from attempted escape)

edit: forgot crobat gets pursuit too

 

[Nightingales]

If you want to screw over bee, Scarfbat. Pursuit's not the best idea to trap it since most users of it in uu are weak to one of two moves Bee typically carries.

 

[Mar1onette]

252+ Atk Doublade Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 87-103 (32.1 - 38%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO

(calc ignores x2 damage from attempted escape)

edit: forgot crobat gets pursuit too

Doublade doesn't want to lose its eviolite to a knock off and doublade doesn't generally run pursuit, when i made my post earlier about "who wants to come in and use pursuit..." i was talking about pokemon that regularly run it as a viable set and doublade doesn't really have room for pursuit in its move set.

 

[Venduria]

name a pursuit trapper besides MAero that wants to come in and use pursuit against mega beedrill. Priority, mega beedrill can usually take 1 hit from it early game without hazards but yeah priority can destroy mega beedrill. don't really have an opinion on the rest that you said, just me nitpicking at this part.

To be honest, Escavalier is a great answer to M-Beedrill, and should honestly be considered in more teams. You either give up Knock Off or Drill Run in the set, but having a OHKO on standard M-Bee is a great benefit if your team is lacking answers.

252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 297-350 (109.5 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (factoring in the switch bonus damage)
252+ Atk Escavalier Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 82-97 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[DaSpoofy]

As promised, I will support this rise to the best of my abilities. Tangrowth is and always has been a fantastic pokemon. I would know; I have been using Tangrowth ever since Feraligatr got sheer force when Tangrowth had less usage than Tangela in UU. A lot of Tangrowth's greatest attributes have been overlooked for far too long. I am very glad that more people are seeing that. Although it has been a great pokemon for so long, I do believe the ban of Pidgeotite makes Tangrowth a more splashable pokemon. Tangrowth needs less support than it use to making it able to fit on a number of teams. The rise in offensive water types such as Sharpedo, Swampert, and Feraligatr also contributes to Tangrowth's success as a pokemon.

Tangrowth has Regenerator
Tangrowth got a huge gift from Game Freak when its dream world ability turned out to be Regenerator. This is more than just an ability that heals you on switch. This is access to an entirely new way to play with Tangrowth. You no longer have to worry about instant recover or even leech seed because Tangrowth does knocks off, sleep powders, or gets off damage and switches out like nothing happened. This ability also ensures that an item isn't necessary for Tangrowth to do it's job. Leftovers helps a lot but some matches Tangrowth just gets knocked off. This is fine. Tangrowth does not need to take hits to heal. Berries, attack boosters, and even bright powder can be used effectively. The regen also allows Tangrowth to perform a whole new role as a special wall. It is safe to run Assault Vest on Tangrowth since it still can recover without a healing move.

Tangrowth is Versatile
You can literally mold Tangrowth into the role that it needs to fill. It can live anything from a banded Infernape's flare blitz to a life orb Kyurem with blizzard. Nothing is scarier than a Tangrowth at full health because you never know what it is going to do. I have seen/used bulky sword dance, specs leaf storm, defensive sleep powder, special defense assault vest, and life orb chlorophyll. It is absolute madness the versatility that can be put into one pokemon. Tangrowth has a very colorful move pool which also contributes to its ability to perform so many different roles.

Proof of Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 338-400 (83.6 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 312-368 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tangrowth is Anti-Meta
Tangrowth is a switch in to so many threats that we see on the average team. Krookodile is a great pokemon to have, but it falls victim to Tangrowth walling capabilities. Allowing a free switch for Tangrowth often means the opponent is putting something to sleep or getting their items knocked off. This is incredibly devastating to the opposing team. There is no way to get items back once they are knocked off and sleep allows an opposing pokemon to temporarily disabled. The reason Tangrowth is anti-meta is because it's not just Krookodile that Tangrowth switches into, but also half the meta cannot 2hko Tangrowth. Not only that, but Tangrowth is one hell of a 1v1 pokemon being able to beat Mamoswine, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Aerodactyl with the appropriate move set.

Now for the question that matters.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
Does Tangrowth meet the A rank criteria? Absolutely!

Reasons

Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame
Yes, Tangrowth is Anti-Meta.
it can sweep
It can but its not as effective as its other attributes.
it can support
Yes no problem. Sleep powder and knock off along with being a high healthed switch-in to so many mons proves that.
it can wall significant portions of the metagame
This is the main reason it belongs in A ranking. It can check and counter most of the meta with the appropriate move set.
These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
Needs next to no support. Although some resistances for Tangrowth's weaknesses opens up moves slots for other things.

I see no reason why Tangrowth should not move up. If you feel differently please express it so I can understand the opposition.



​

 

[Revelation]

If you want to screw over bee, Scarfbat. Pursuit's not the best idea to trap it since most users of it in uu are weak to one of two moves Bee typically carries.

I use Fletchinder to essentially do the same thing. Gale Wings Acrobatics <3

 

[MrCookiepants]

Why are Mega Beedrill and Mega Aerodactyl in the same rank? MDactyl has comparable power, a higher speed tier, more useful defensive typing, actual bulk, Taunt, Defog, rocks, non-trash coverage options, and isn't walled by the most common mega in UU (itself).

Well, this isn't really UU relevant, but M-Aero can't even OHKO a Keldeo with its flying STAB. Point is, it just doesn't hit that hard. "Comparable power" is a straight up lie.

 

[Kink]

Well, this isn't really UU relevant, but M-Aero can't even OHKO a Keldeo with its flying STAB. Point is, it just doesn't hit that hard. "Comparable power" is a straight up lie.

Why are you talking about Keldeo in UU. Respond to his point in the correct context or don't respond at all.

 

[Nightingales]

Maero is the king of revenge killing. Don't expect it to OHKO stuff, bring it in late-game to sweep and clean or to revenge stuff locked into stabs that won't bother it.

 

[Kingler]

I don't really have any opinions on the noms themselves aside from whats beenbeen said, but DaSpoofy why are you mentioning a 252/252+ AV tangrowth as a realistic scenario lol? Tangrowth definitely has its merits and is a neat pokemon in the meta but cmon lol

edit- not a huge fan of that lol but my bad i guess, did not know that was a thing :/

 

[Chanelle]

I'd like to nominate Fletchinder to rise from B- to anything higher. While it's frail as shit and 4x weak to rocks, it's an excellent revenge-killer and can set up on slower walls with Swords Dance and Taunt. Acrobatics OHKOs a lot of UU threats like mega Beedrill and Choice Scarf Mienshao that can be a real pain for offence teams. I think ranking it below things like Noivern and Aromatisse is a bit unfair.

 

[DaSpoofy]

I don't really have any opinions on the noms themselves aside from whats beenbeen said, but DaSpoofy why are you mentioning a 252/252+ AV tangrowth as a realistic scenario lol? Tangrowth definitely has its merits and is a neat pokemon in the meta but cmon lol

I was kind of hoping someone would bring this up because there was no appropriate place to put it in my argument!
As you may know the set I speak of comes from the OU analysis where we see a max Spdef Tangrowth with Assault Vest. This is actually viable in UU as well. It walls things like Hydregion, Whimsicott, and Helioisk while still keeping the physical bulk to check/counter Mega Swamp and Mega Sharpedo. With Tangrowth's high attack and special attack, you don't absolutely need the investment to have a good power output. With access to a powerful Leaf Storm stab and a colorful move pool for coverage, Tangrowth can function fine with no investment.

I actually have a battle where Tangrowth continues to take hits from a choice specs Hydregion while knocking off items and injuring my opponents team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-257108255 vs King UU
Here is the set I run!
Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast/ Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb/ HP Ice/ HP Fire

You can switch into Whimi without fear and kill it with sludge. You can have focus blast for Hydrei and Helio. Knock off is a must. Everything else is what you want to hit and how hard. If you hate entei switching in then run EQ or Ancient Power. If mega aboma gives you trouble, run Hp fire. It's very flexible. Go try it out! It's a lot of fun.

 

[Hogg]

Agreeing with all of the recent changes, although I'm still not sure I agree that Mega-Sharpedo is quite on the same level as Bee/Aero/Pert. That said, there's no denying that it's scary as hell, and I can't really complain about its placement there too much.

Regarding the new slate...

Venomoth (B+ to A-): UNDECIDED

Man, I don't know if I'm just using this thing poorly or what, but I've been underwhelmed every time I've played with it. It can eat through teams with the right support, but I haven't really found it all that much more effective than many other sweepers in the various B ranges. While Tinted Lens and its nice STAB options means it punches through some common special walls, its poor physical defense combined with LO recoil and rocks weakness means that it rarely gets more than one boost, and with one boost it's not sweeping unless a team is decently worn down. Anything remotely bulky can stomach a hit from it at +1 (and I don't just mean special walls like Snorlax or P2), and it basically can't take a hit on the physical side (Beedrill does like 60% with U-turn, and can do as much as 80% with Knock Off). With the right team support it has been brutal - I've had particular success with hazard stacking offense teams, as it only needs to shave about 30% off to break through common threats like Swampert or Heracross - but with the amount of team support it requires, I'm just not sure I can really agree with A-.

That said, I've seen other people do quite well with Moth, so I'll test this a bit more and see if I'm just missing something.

Hoopa (Unranked to B): AGREE

B sounds about right to me for now. This thing has incredible offensive potential that can just eat through bulky teams like they're nothing, but mediocre bulk and few opportunities for setup limit its usefulness. It also has to compete with other 'mons in similar roles such as Life Orb Reuniclus, who doesn't hit nearly as hard but is backed up with fantastic bulk and the excellent Magic Guard. I've had decent success with both a SubSalac set and a Life Orb + 3 attacks set, but it definitely requires team support and runs the risk of being dead weight. I could even see an argument for B+, but I think B sounds more accurate, at least for the time being.

Aerodactyl (B- to B): DISAGREE

Non-Mega Aerodactyl pretty much solely exists as a hyper offense hazard lead, which it does decently... but still not as well as other hazard leads, such as Froslass. Frankly there are so many decent rocks setters that I don't think its role is an essential one, and while it is arguably better than Sash Azelf as a lead, Azelf at least can put in a surprising amount of offensive pressure with its Life Orb set (which has completely different counters than Sash Rocks 'zelf). Hazard offense is really good right now, no question - but Aero doesn't even fit on every hazard offense team. There's a niche for it, certainly, but not such a large one that I think it's worth a rise.

Tangrowth (B+ to A-): AGREE

Tangrowth is such a good defensive pivot for almost every playstyle. It checks some of the most dangerous physical setup sweepers (Gatr in particular, but it also can tank a +2 Adamant LO Close Combat from Lucario and KO back with Earthquake), while also providing a nice switch-in to bulky Waters, making it invaluable for offense and balance. Meanwhile, stall and semistall also love its ability to switch into a +2 Gatr (as stall teams can't rely on offensive pressure to keep Gatr from setting up) and check threats multiple times throughout a match, as well as the team support it can provide with status moves and Knock Off. While it has some problems, I don't think it's unreasonable to say it deserves a place alongside the other A- 'mons.

Froslass (B+ to A-): AGREE

Remember how I said hazard offense is really good right now? Yeah, it has been killing it in this meta, and Froslass is almost certainly the best suicide hazard lead in the tier. Spikes support is so good on offense right now, especially as an answer to balance teams that rely on things like P2 to check dangerous threats. Not too much more to say - Froslass really only does one thing (yes, I've seen offensive Froslass sets, and no, they're mostly not very good), but it does that one thing better than any other 'mon in the tier, and that one thing happens to be in high demand right now.

Goodra (B- to C): AGREE

For some reason this makes me sad, because I really think Goodra has potential. That said, I try to think of what kind of team I'd use it on and I just find myself at a loss. There are a lot of good bulky dragon types in the tier, and while Goodra has such great bulk, not to mention a solid Special Attack backed by a stellar offensive movepool, there's almost always a better choice for every role you might try to give it. I certainly don't think Goodra is bad... but it's outclassed. Dragalge getting Adaptability was the major nail in Goodra's coffin, as it has a superior defensive typing and scary good offensive presence.

 

[Omfuga]

I'd like to nominate Fletchinder to rise from B- to anything higher. While it's frail as shit and 4x weak to rocks, it's an excellent revenge-killer and can set up on slower walls with Swords Dance and Taunt. Acrobatics OHKOs a lot of UU threats like mega Beedrill and Choice Scarf Mienshao that can be a real pain for offence teams. I think ranking it below things like Noivern and Aromatisse is a bit unfair.

Fletchinder can't run taunt. It literally has no room on its moveset. I just explained why Fletchinder was dropped so you can read that in case you're curious why. Also Aromatisse has far more of a niche in the meta than Fletchinder does. Saying ranking it below "things like Aromatisse" is unfair considering Aromatisse has good physical bulk, immunity to taunt (which is a huge deal), and big wish passes unlike florges.

Aromatisse is basically the go-to fairy for more defensive builds, whereas florges has more overall utility. If anything Aromatisse is one of the pokemon who could be even higher than B... it's one of the only dedicated heracross counters, and doesn't have shitty support moves/recovery like Granbull does.

Fletchinder on the other hand has only 1 good attribute: Strong priority. It has 0 bulk, and a decent-at-best attack stat that only gets uplifted to some extent by a strong priority attack. Its bulk is extremely pitiful and it can't even run eviolite because it doesn't get access to brave bird... It's 4x weak to rocks so it has trouble coming in on offense even though offense is the only playstyle it really threatens.