OU Cores in the BW2 Metagame

No problem, Lavos, I was just curious on how you handled those mons, sorry for the tone of the post. My first thought was "bulky waters mess this core up", but you have U-Turn + electric attacks for those.

Besides that, the core seems really good (Victini's a bit underrated, in my opinion, kudos for using it ;) ). I was thinking that perhaps a speed-boosting special attacker could give you some trouble, but the only one I could think of was Quiver Dance Volcarona. Have you had any problems with it in the past?
 
The single best core in the current metagame is Scarf Genesect, Sash Dugtrio, Band Victini, and Defensive Xatu. This is 4/6ths of my Sun team (Ninetales and Victreebel being the last two) and it does some serious work. Genesect and Victini U-Turn everything, and either switch to Dugtrio to trap or Xatu to prevent hazards from getting up etc. It's extremely simple, very user-friendly, and there are almost no weaknesses to the core. Really, this is a fantastic core and I urge anybody who likes Sun to give it a try. The sets are below:

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- U-Turn
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

@ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal

@ Choice Band
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-Turn
- V-Create
- Fusion Bolt
- Brick Break

@ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-Turn
- Psychic
- Roost
- Reflect / Heat Wave

3 U-Turn abusers + Dugtrio? Yes please. It's never been easier to abuse Sun. Please share your thoughts on this core.
This is one of the best core of bw2 currently the majority of people use it ... very strong..srsly
However, i tried staraptor + landorus-t and it's very sexy also hippowdon + jellicent + skarmory + roserade/amoonguus is good for stall team

Also lanturn + bronzong is nice
 
Staraptor and Lando-T are indeed powerful, but Mamoswine screws them both over. Ice Shard will do large amounts of damage to both (I think that after Brave Bird recoil, Ice Shard OHKOs). Still, they are powerful, but be wary of the crippling Ice weakness the duo would add.
 
You can use Rotom-W for Mamoswine to continue the volturn or another counter to mamoswine like bronzong, intimidate gyarados etc...

Rotom-W in reality is more a check because stone edge (or return if you don't want have a miss) create considerable damage
 
A core that i found to be effective consisting of ferrothorn, jellicent and mamoswine. jellicent takes scizor which would plage the core as well as resisting fighting types like conkeldurr which would hit the other two pokes with supereffective attacks. jellicent also handels heatran. ferrothorn allows mamoswine more OHKOs setting up spikes/stealth rock and taking out bulky water types like vaporeon with its stab power whip. i have found scarf mamoswine works well with the core taking out weather threats like tornadus, thunderus, landorous and venusaur which trouble jellicent and ferrothorn with its stabs and also destroying dragons which can set up on jellicent and ferro.

This core does have troble though with with magnezone and starmie if ferro is down
 

Dr Ciel

Banned deucer.
I don't think anyone has posted this core before, because I looked through the whole topic and didn't see it. This is a great sun team core. Dugtrio traps and kills all threats to Volcarona, and Volcarona finishes the other team off.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
Nature: Timid - EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Fiery Dance
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance

@Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Earthquake
Reversal
Stone Edge
Stealth Rock
 
Why you use hp ground on volcarona (for heatran I presume) and dugtrio (that trapkill heatran)? You can use hp ice for dragonz imo, also hp rock is better...or roost with a bulky evs spread
 
I don't have a core to post, but I'm seeing a trend with a lot of these cores:
Xatu+Genesect/Tornadus-T+Dugtrio/Gothetelle, and boy, does it look very threatening. Genesect and Tornadus-T both have U-Turn , and both are walled by specially defensive walls that Dugtrio can trap and KO, and U-Turn gives Dugtrio a safe switch-in. Dugtrio/Gothetelle can also trap and kill weather starters, winning you the weather war so Tornadus can spam Hurricane... yes, yes, I'll have to give this core a try, although, what's Xatu's use? Is it because it's the only viable Magic Bouncer who learns U-Turn? Doesn't Espeon do this already, but with Baton Pass?
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
So i've started running shed shell heatran. Dugtrio genesect is quite frankly ridiculous and moronic.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
So i've started running shed shell heatran. Dugtrio genesect is quite frankly ridiculous and moronic.
surprised you're calling it "ridiculous" and "moronic", to me it has the same ring to it as volt-turn where the basic idea is to put a ton of pressure on your opponent whilst making winning a whole lot easier. shed shell heatran definitely counters the core, but there's always support mons that can bust heatran up regardless of it being shed shell or not. i don't like how shed shell decreases heatran's survivability so much, as it lacks recovery in the first place, so you're only going to get so many switch-ins with hazards before tran goes down. i guess if you really, truly are being wrecked by sun it's a decent choice, but still, if the opponent doesn't bring that rare ninetales then you just wasted an item slot.
 
So i've started running shed shell heatran. Dugtrio genesect is quite frankly ridiculous and moronic.
Just because you are the one person running Shed Shell Heatran, it doesn't mean it is "ridiculous" and "moronic". It is a well thought up core. It's not like you won't get beaten because of Shed Shell.
 
Archeops + Sandslash + Tyranitar


Flying Gem
Naive Nature
168 Attack, 88 Sp Attack, 252 Speed
IVs: 30 Attack, 30 Defense

Acrobatics
Stone Edge
Hidden Power Ice
Heat Wave

Archeops is one of the weirdest Pokemon ever. 140 base attack, 112 base special attack and 110 base speed are terrifying, but unfortunately its ability, Defeatist, makes it difficult to use, and being Stealth Rock weak obviously isn't helping. The set itself is unorthodox, but it works. 252 Speed is to keep Archeops in that impressive base 110 tier, which lets it outspeed many potent threats. 88 Special Attack EVs lets it pump up the damage on many targets who can prove problematic for sand teams, such as Gliscor, Jirachi, and Skarmory, with Hidden Power Ice and Heat Wave, respectively. The rest goes into Attack, with Stone Edge and Acrobatics as STABs. By the way, if you want to use this, a word of advice. Don't use Acrobatics too early. Wait for something that Archeops would have troubles taking down, or something really bulky, because Flying Gem Acrobatics hits like a goddamn nuke. The IVs seem detrimental to Archeops' Attack, but they only remove a single point of attack, and allow it to run HP Ice and outrun other base 110s who run Speed reducing Hidden Powers, as well as the occasional Durant.


Leftovers
Jolly Nature
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP

Rapid Spin
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Stone Edge

Remember how Archeops hates Stealth Rock? Sandslash can fix that. No spinblocker can attempt to block Sandslash's Rapid Spin, because if they try and Sandslash Swords Dances, they lose, with the exception of Utility Counter Jellicent, who takes 69.23 - 81.38% from Sandslash's Earthquake.
Archeops appreciates the removal of Stealth Rock greatly. In return, Archeops can break many of the bulky Pokemon that would wall Sandslash, such as the previously mentioned Gliscor and Skarmory. After such Pokemon are removed, Sandslash can easily sweep through weakened teams. Therefore, Archeops and Sandslash work very well together.


Stealth Rock

That's it. You can use whichever Tyranitar set you like, but Stealth Rock is recommended. Both Archeops and Sandslash like entry hazards on the opponents side of the field, and they love Sand for the residual damage on many targets, since it eliminates Focus Sash and Leftovers on many Pokemon, doubles Sandslash' Speed, and gives Archeops some much needed bulk on the special side. Sandslash helps Tyranitar out by removing Spikes and such from the field, which is very nice given that Tyranitar has no reliable recovery barring Leftovers on defensive sets. Archeops is very helpful in winning the weather war. Did I mention that switching opposing weather starters into Archeops is incredibly dumb? Defensive Politoed, the most bulky of opposing weather starters, is 2HK0ed by non-Flying Gemmed Acrobatics after Stealth Rock 57% of the time? Ninetales dies to Stone Edge, and Abomasnow can only switch into HP Ice or it kicks the bucket. This can go a long way to winning the weather war.

The rest of the team should provide a variety of functions. Due to typing similarities, a bulky water should prove helpful in taking Water and Ice moves. Vaporeon is a great choice, as it can also pass giant Wishes to its teammates, who lack recovery options. Grass types can also do some damage, so a Steel or Dragon type can be very useful in getting rig of them. Ferrothorn can be a good choice, as it can set up Stealth Rock if you choose to not use it on Tyranitar, or Spikes if Tyranitar has Stealth Rock covered.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
surprised you're calling it "ridiculous" and "moronic", to me it has the same ring to it as volt-turn where the basic idea is to put a ton of pressure on your opponent whilst making winning a whole lot easier. shed shell heatran definitely counters the core, but there's always support mons that can bust heatran up regardless of it being shed shell or not. i don't like how shed shell decreases heatran's survivability so much, as it lacks recovery in the first place, so you're only going to get so many switch-ins with hazards before tran goes down. i guess if you really, truly are being wrecked by sun it's a decent choice, but still, if the opponent doesn't bring that rare ninetales then you just wasted an item slot.

No, you misunderstand my point. The fact that i should have to run shed shell heatran means that that core is so brutally uncounterable by a stall team as to make it moronic.

As for many of your arguments;restalk is rather reliable recovery, many thing that switch into heatran can't really do that much to it or are hurt by a lava plume and possibly burned by it. As with skarmory, my shed shell policy is thus:If i ever really NEED this pokemon, then they'll try to trap it, which is when shed shell comes in handy. Shed shell is instant GG for some games, slight hindrance in others, overall it's worth it.
 
I've been using this as an effective anti-Stealth rock lead thing.


Koobonator (Landorus-T) @ Choice Scarf
Ability:Intimidate
EVs:252Attack/252Speed/4SpecialAttack
Nature: Naive
- Earthquake
- Stone edge
- U-turn
- Hidden power[Ice]


Crystal (Thundurus-T) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt absorb
EVs:252Special attack/252 Speed/4HP
Nature:Timid
- Thunder
- Volt switch
- Hidden power Ice
- Grass knot



Fluttershy (Espeon) @Leftovers
Ability:Magic bounce
EVs:252HP/252Speed/4Special attack
Nature:Timid
- Baton pass
- Calm mind
- Substitute
- Stored power

Basically, We've got a lot of Leads trying to set SR up on the first turn, no? Landorus can Choice-scarf U turn to espeon to Bounce SR away, and the Espeon can set up some calm minds. Or, Using team preview, I can start with Thundurus to Volt switch into the same situation. Espeon can also Sub, then Baton pass the Sub for a free switch.
This also counters Breloom leads, And Smeargle.
Please leave your opinions!
 
Here's a defensive core, using double regenerator for my team I broke 1800+ with.

(Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Psychic

(Amoonguss) (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Giga Drain

As they cover each other well, and Regenerator healing 1/3 each time switch out makes it a strong defensive core. Preferably under sand or rain support.
 
A core I have been using with success is a Whimsicott + Magnezone + Haxorus + Dugtrio core. Initially I thought, how can we abuse tailwind? Obviously 1 choice was to choose a powerful attacker that isn't particularly fast that is capable of taking out large portions of the tier. So I thought of banded Haxorus because - between Magnezone and Dugtrio - ALL of it's counters or checks to outrage are very easily trapped. Magnezone is more important however as it takes out skarmory and ferrothorn, Haxorus' two biggest defensive threats. Whimsicott is absolutely necessary as it can deal with rain (which tornadus can't as an alternative priority tailwind user), can shuffle teams, can shut down set-up and has other good support options.

It's most of a team.. but I had a lot of fun with it so far, here are some sets!


Whimsicott (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Encore
- U-turn
- Leech Seed
- Tailwind


Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge


Haxorus (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Dual Chop


Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon

The most difficult part about using this core was choosing the next two pokemon, I think Tornadus in particular makes a great fifth pokemon thanks to the combination of its tendency to bait steels, access to u-turn to trap said steels and priority tailwind.

There are also other alternatives to using haxorus at +2, Lucario, Heatran, Mamoswine and Nidoking all get special mentions here.
 
Here, for you stall players, this is a core that has brought me much success on the ladder



Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp



Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind



Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Protect
- Lava Plume

While the type synergy is a bit loose, (especially when it comes to electric attacks) the strategy is there. Skarmory and Heatran can set up hazards while switching in to each other's ground/fire respective attacks. When the opponent brings out a strong fighting type (or infernape whatever), a water type or a rapid spinner, jellicent can switch in and burn the foe, either wearing it down or making it easier for skarmory to handle. Also, both skarmory and heatran sport phazing moves, protecting them from being set up and racking up residual damage by entry hazards.

The only pokemon that efficiently break the core are dugtrio, thundurus-t, mixed arcanine, rotom-w, and magnezone (if you opt to run leftovers on skarmory).

I hope that all you stall players out there can make good use of this core!
 
Hey Hillz, I've been using a core very similar to that on my stall team with huge success (~1850 on PS and still climbing). A few suggestions I'd add:

Jellicent should absolutely run Taunt over Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball is hitting very very little and Taunt lets it become a one-Pokémon counter to other stall teams. Blissey/Chansey are powerless against it, as are opposing Skarmory. It also helps it beat DD Gyarados. I run the EV spread 206 HP / 216 Def / 88 Speed. With this spread, it outspeeds base 70s, most importantly Politoed. Bring it in on a Scald aimed at Heatran, Taunt his attempts to Toxic, then Will-O-Wisp either Toed (greatly lowering its longevity) or whatever your opponent brings in.

A great partner to this core is:

Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Spore

It covers Electric types and Rotom-W perfectly, plus it lets you put something to sleep, which is wonderful. Finally, it beats all versions of Breloom and Keldeo too, a huge plus for a stall team (I know Skarmory beats Breloom too, but you have to have two Breloom counters since the first is going to sleep).
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
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The best Jellicent for stall teams is the one with Shadow Ball, WoW, Taunt and Recover, imo. Scald is not really needed when you can burn more accurately with WoW (admit it you spam Scald to burn things not to damage them). With Shadow Ball you can break Gyarados's subs, beat Reuniclus one on one (with some SpD investement), help against Lati@s, opposing Jellicent, Gengar, and also beat Starmie (again with some SpD investement).

So my advice would be to run a Jellicent with enough Speed to outspeed Defensive Toed (a little speed creep wouldn't hurt), and the moveset i mentioned, and with enough SpD to tank a few Tbolts from Starmie. 252 HP / 152 Def / 16 SpD / 88 Spe with a Calm nature is a good spread that allows you to outspeed 0 Speed Politoed, and to never be 2hkoed by T-Bolt from Leftovers Starmie after SR and sandstorm damage, while the rest are thrown into Def to wall threats such as Gyarados and Scizor easier.
 
After using Whimsicott for so long now, I have to say I am amazed it isn't OU anymore. Whimsicott shuffles teams!

Do you hate it when your choice locked scarfer is free to give a pokemon a set-up? Encore either 1. Forces them to switch out or 2. Accept the encore and let Whimsicott u-turn.

This helps a lot with certain problematic set-up sweepers and basically I've been experimenting with her in cores a lot now and she makes scarfing a lot more pokemon viable.

Essentially a core consisting of Whimsicott/Choice scarf user/Set-up sweeper is something I've been using to great success.

Just when Whimsicott is about to go down, tailwind also becomes a fantastic late game sweeping option, Tornadus also gets priority (suicidal) tailwind but has limited other capabilities without rain support. Gyarados and Salamence can really abuse +2 and moxie. Haxorus becomes incredibly hard to stop and certain fantastic coverage powerhouses (Nidoking, Heatran, etc) become real terror's for offensive teams. Yes ofcourse stall teams give tailwind trouble, especially with protect stalling however Whimsicott pairs very nicely with a lot of the best stall/wall breakers (ie Lucario, Haxorus, Infernape).
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
The best Jellicent for stall teams is the one with Shadow Ball, WoW, Taunt and Recover, imo. Scald is not really needed when you can burn more accurately with WoW (admit it you spam Scald to burn things not to damage them). With Shadow Ball you can break Gyarados's subs, beat Reuniclus one on one (with some SpD investement), help against Lati@s, opposing Jellicent, Gengar, and also beat Starmie (again with some SpD investement).

So my advice would be to run a Jellicent with enough Speed to outspeed Defensive Toed (a little speed creep wouldn't hurt), and the moveset i mentioned, and with enough SpD to tank a few Tbolts from Starmie. 252 HP / 152 Def / 16 SpD / 88 Spe with a Calm nature is a good spread that allows you to outspeed 0 Speed Politoed, and to never be 2hkoed by T-Bolt from Leftovers Starmie after SR and sandstorm damage, while the rest are thrown into Def to wall threats such as Gyarados and Scizor easier.

Personally, for a stall team, i say that night shade stomps all over shadow ball's ass. Seriously, how exactly are you going to beat heatran without it, not to mention volcarona. And it'll of course break subs all over the place, except them 101 Hp subs, but shadow ball's probably not breaking those either.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
Personally, for a stall team, i say that night shade stomps all over shadow ball's ass. Seriously, how exactly are you going to beat heatran without it, not to mention volcarona. And it'll of course break subs all over the place, except them 101 Hp subs, but shadow ball's probably not breaking those either.
If you run Night Shade, sure, you still beat Gyarados and a couple other things that alexwolf mentioned, but then you also lose to opposing Jellicent, Gengar, and Starmie, assuming it has Recover. That's a ton of coverage on Pokemon that you lose, just because you want to...beat Heatran and Volcarona? I would assume that any decent stall team is not going to be relying on their Jellicent alone to defeat Heatran, and I especially hope that any decent stall team has a better answer to Volcarona than Jellicent, because otherwise they'll be swept every single time by it. Overall, Energy Shadow Ball is the superior choice.
 

alkinesthetase

<@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
jellicent loses to volc regardless of what attack it runs. volc's sdef goes up way too fast as it dances for jelli to match it with its uninvested attacks, especially in sun, and volc can run giga drain/roost to easily heal off the pitiful damage being inflicted by scald/ball. night shade might be your best bet but even then, there are many volc sets that run recovery (i am a sucker for bulky volcarona, screw all this all-out-offensive shit =P). even if volc has to suffer with the use of fire blasts and bug buzzes to break jellicent down, it can still pull it off because it just keeps boosting and jelly can't even touch it. the only thing jellicent can hope to win with is toxic (even then volc might just be a chestorest variant in which case you're kinda screwed); otherwise you lose regardless of the set. in other words, jellicent can generally come in on volc, nice and all, but it still loses to it.

i generally prefer scald on jellicent simply because sometimes you don't have the time to stop inflicting damage and go straight for the burn, and other times you care more about the damage and the burn is just a nice bonus. in both those cases scald is useful even if you carry willowisp, scald also gives you the option of running toxic over wow.. niche in my opinion but still worth noting. however shadow ball does grant you a whole new list of things you can hurt as you wall up (conversely removes a lot too) so i think it's worth consideration. night shade is, imo, the weakest choice. it may be the most reliable, but it doesn't really change what jellicent is capable of taking on with either shadow ball or scald. i actually like running both scald and ball, but i like taunt even more in most cases

if you really wanna rock out though, you clearly need energy ball jellicent
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
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tehy as Lavos Spawn mentioned, Jellicent should never be your Volcarona counter anyway, as with or without Night Shade it loses 1 on 1 against most of Rona's sets. For example Roost / Morning Sun variants don't give a fuck about anything Jellicent can do and just boost enough to muscle through you. Offensive LO Volcarona 2hkoes Jellicent at +2 (1st QD as you come in, 2nd as you use Night Shade) with Fire Blast. Rain Abusing Volcarona 2hkoes Jellicent at +1 with Hurricane. As you can see Night Shade doesn't really help. The only way that Jellicent can deal with Volcarona is to have Toxic. Then Night Shade has a little merit for beating the very rare Sub Volcarona.

Oh and Heatran is also another very easy threat for stall to cover. Not to mention that Jellicent loses to SpD Heatran with Toxic.

Shadow Ball is vastly superior to Night Shade.
 

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