Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th

[Beck]

New Pokemon in the new games? It's all but a guarantee. They just won't be new to US because we've been playing with and discussing them ever since BW came out.

Keldeo, Meloetta, some sort of extra forme for Kyurem, maybe even Genesect at some point. We all knew they were going to come out and assumed they'd be event Pokemon. But you know what? A sequel means that none of them have to be event Pokemon; they can simply be put in the new games as standard legendaries.

As for completely new Pokemon we've never seen before, that's pretty much impossible from a practical standpoint as has already been explained. Backwards compatibility would be totally screwed between generations, and it'd require them to code a whole load of new stuff. No, that's not going to happen.

As for R/S, I think it pretty much impossible that these new versions will be remakes of them, for business reasons (they'll make way more money selling stand-alone remakes of them). However, I don't think so farfetched that there will be some sort of Hoenn connection in these games, much like there was a G/S connection in FR/LG with the Sevii Islands. I think something along those lines is much more likely than the ability to explore the whole region G/S/C style, as the ability to do so would detract from the appeal of the (likely) upcoming remakes.

I do think there is SOME sort of connection to Ruby and Sapphire though; as people have pointed out, the title images for each of the games hints too strongly at them for there not to be. Even the lines inside the 2s match up! That's stretching coincidence pretty far.

If that's the case, then it's quite possible that a Pokemon like Keldeo can be caught in a place such as the Abyssal Ruins. The re-enhanced Dive Ball mechanics could help with this. Problem solved.

Also, I don't see any reason why Hoenn teasers can't be a part of the game, but it's so unlikely that these will be Hoenn remakes. Putting the remakes on the 3DS in their entirety would be more of a penny pincher than conceiling them in two games titled otherwise. I know I would buy a 3DS down the road if I could replay my favourite generation, and I'm sure a lot of other fanboys would too. And it's ridiculous to think that GF and Nintendo actually care about making more money on a DS game than a 3DS game, especially when the DS is quickly becoming obselete.

 

[alexwolf]

Something that none else has still pointed out, is the fact that Nintendo is going to release 2 games not 1.

So far, GF was releasing 2 games at the same time only for main games or direct sequles (gold and silver). And for expansion (fe Platinum) versions it was releasing 1.

So everyone assumed that GF changed her formula of releasing games, when there was a much simpler answer... 2 Games are being released, because they are main games, and/or direct sequels!

GF wants to make the most profit out of the games that's for sure. But the main excuse for releasing 2 games at the same time is that they have some distinct differencies, that actually justify the choice of picking either of those 2. Because if the 2 games didn't have any real difference, then each person from the whole pokemon bying community would only buy 1 of those 2 games, which means that in total, GF will have sold the same amount of game cards that he will have had if it only released one version. So why bother making 2 versions anyway?

So my guess is that if they are going to make 2 versions, a direct sequel, propably connected to Hoenn is coming. Because if they were to release a Black/White 3rd version (aka Grey) with only some minor story and pokemon changes/additions, why bother making 2 versions? Each person would only buy 1 of the 2 games anyway, since the differences between them would be stupidly small, so the sold product will be the same with the one that would come by making only one game. So why go through the trouble of making 2?

Finally, never before an expansion game (aka Platinum, Crystal, Emerald) has had 2 main legendaries, which is another strong point that supports the sequel theory!

Sry for talking too much, and i hope that what i said actually makes some sense...!

 

[OVERGRO]

^^Twice the games, at least 1.2x the money. Also, version exclusive pokemon, battles, etc. are enough to justify having two separate titles.
I would feel bad if we got all excited and then they gave us another Plat/Emerald/Thing.
I would buy it, but I would be down after all this speculation

 

[alexwolf]

^^Twice the games, at least 1.2x the money. Also, version exclusive pokemon, battles, etc. are enough to justify having two separate titles.
I would feel bad if we got all excited and then they gave us another Plat/Emerald/Thing.
I would buy it, but I would be down after all this speculation

Exactly! Even if it is 1.2x the money, is it really worth it for GF to dissapoint their byuers so much, making them to buy 2 almost identical games and spending double the money, while also spending more money for the creation and the marketing of not one but two games?

And to whoever says that many version are almost identical (Gold-Silver, Ruby-Saphire, etc) main and important difference is this:

Every 2 games that have beed released at the same time were the first in their generation for their respective area (Hoenn,Kanto etc), so they had many new things coming for them, and bying 2 was an acceptable option for many.
But when you are releasing expansion games with 2 versions instead of one, you have to make sure not only that these 2 version will be different between them (meaning different pokes in grasses, legendaries, storyline a bit), but that they will also be different from their respective original games (meaning Black and White, in the case of Black 2 and White 2).

So for example let's take a look at some previous Pokemon expansion games like Emerald and Platinum. What did those 2 games had that their basic version didn't?
They both had a battle frontier, a small added area (Pokemon Safari for Emerald and the island with the Resort, Fight and Survival areas), and they gave you access to both cover legendaries and maybe added some new formes. And this is all. These are the new things. And because they are so little, they make 1 version not 2.
Now imagine if they would have released 2 version for these games...
Meaning that the differences bewtween those 2 games would be only different pokes in the areas that have different pokes from the original areas of the first game anyway (Safari Zone for Emerald and the 3 Areas for Platinum) and what else? Can you think of something else?

So this is why they realeased only 1 version. Because even if they wanted to release 2, the new stuff added were very little to justify the creation of 2 games.

So i don't see why this isn't the case for B2W2 also... So anyone that believes that they are not sequels but expansions, believes that they will be like Platinum and Emerald, except that they will be 2 instead of 1? Is this possible?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Explain why Game Freak makes Dive an HM move in the generation where they cut down on HM moves and then don't use Dive at all in Black/White. Hoenn is the only region that uses Dive. It's a strong sign to say the least.

All HMs are pratically useless in BW.

 

[deluge]

Introducing new Pokemon would have similar backwards compatibility issues as introducing new formes. That didn't stop 'em. In fact, I am aware of no data (sprites etc) for Kyurem's new formes in BW or else the ROM dumpers would have revealed them already. That's a backwards compatibility issue right there.

The solution is simple, ban the new Pokes/formes when battling/trading with the previous games. IIRC, Rotom-A was banned from link battles between DP and Platinum. So backwards compatibility is no impediment at all if GF wants to introduce new things. You'd just have a small incompatible subset. Which is fine because that subset represents the reasons to buy the new games at all!

 

[Scorpio]

I have a theory: Maybe the Abbysal Ruins will be expanded upon in the sequels, giving Dive more of a use.

 

[shayminfreak]

Hey, I know the names are supposed to be Black and White Kyurem, but mull this over for a few minutes. Kyurem, Zekrom, and Reshiram all have similar endings - rem, rom, and ram. I doubt that's just coincidence! Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense for Black Kyurem (Zelrom+Kyurem) to be called Kyurom? Similarly, White Kyurem could be Kyuram.... It's just interesting to think about!

 

[shellscriptcoder]

Hey, you're right, shayminfreak! That's cool....

 

[DarkEspeon]

I for one hope they wait to the ruby saphirre sequel so that they can do it true justice. Originally I thought that Nintendo would do the remakes for the 3DS but given the less than ideal sales they may be waiting for more people to have them before releasing pokemon games exclusively for the 3DS.

First of all, 3DS is selling well now. It's 2 million short of their worldwide target, but that target was insane in the first place for a first year with next to no games. Over 15 million shipped in 10 months is nothing to complain about.

Second, Pokemon is a true system seller. It could be a launch title and still break records.

The reasons these are not on 3DS are likely due to maintaining compatibility with BW and GF needing extra time to work on their first ever full 3D engine and game.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Who cares about the 3DS, it's gonna sink anyway and Nintendo will lose the master race to Apple if it keeps investing on lol 3D like Sony. But it's neither here nor there.

 

[Kinglypuff]

Hoenn already possess a Normal, Electrik and Flying gym, just like in Unova, so I don't think the two regions can be in the same game. Maybe in other games, but BW2 are probably Gamefreak's last games on DS, so we don't know what to expect.

For this sequels, I hope a new storyline, new characters, a new way to explore Unova and some new places too. I hope it's not juste a "Grey" version.

 

[Purimpopoie]

The solution is simple, ban the new Pokes/formes when battling/trading with the previous games. IIRC, Rotom-A was banned from link battles between DP and Platinum. So backwards compatibility is no impediment at all if GF wants to introduce new things. You'd just have a small incompatible subset. Which is fine because that subset represents the reasons to buy the new games at all!

This is incorrect. You can use alternate forms from Platinum in battles with Diamond and Pearl, but only by connecting directly with the other game (IE, no Union Room and no WiFi Club). It;s also incorrect to think that alternate formes that aren't programmed in the games effect compatiblity: Unless GameFreak was planning some epic-level trolling, there isn't one byte of data referring to Pichu getting an alternate forme. However, the Spiky-Eared Pichu can be used in link battles with Diamond/Pearl/Platinum... as long as it's a direct connection and not going through the Union Room or the WiFi Club. In those games, it appears as a regular Pichu, just as the alternate formes of Rotom, Shaymin and Giratina appear to Diamond/Pearl as their normal forms, even when they're the alternate formes.

 

[blasphemy1]

Who cares about the 3DS, it's gonna sink anyway and Nintendo will lose the master race to Apple if it keeps investing on lol 3D like Sony. But it's neither here nor there.

Where's this bold assumption coming from? You're not basing this off any facts, thus your hypothesis is invalid. The 3DS is selling VERY well after its lackluster launch, and a Pokemon game for the 3DS would only bolster the sales. Comparing Nintendo to Sony is insane, mainly because their handhelds have always been superior. Sony is out of touch when it comes to the handheld market, and they try to sell "gadgets" rather than gaming handhelds. THAT is where they went wrong; contrary to Nintendo clearly making the DS line suitable for games that are fun in short bits or exclusive experiences to a handheld. The 3DS is going to be around for a long time, and you might as well get to used to it because if I had to bet I'd say the next Pokemon games after BW2 are going to be on the 3DS.

It's simple why BW2 are not on the 3DS: they're direct sequels to BW1. Forcing owners of BW1 to buy a 3DS in order to conclude their story would alienate them.

 

[DarkEspeon]

Who cares about the 3DS, it's gonna sink anyway and Nintendo will lose the master race to Apple if it keeps investing on lol 3D like Sony. But it's neither here nor there.

People like you are why I believe Apple fanboys are the worst ones in existence. I'm willing to bet that you said the same about Android at one point.

It's simple why BW2 are not on the 3DS: they're direct sequels to BW1. Forcing owners of BW1 to buy a 3DS in order to conclude their story would alienate them.

This is pretty much the weakest argument possible.

 

[blasphemy1]

This is pretty much the weakest argument possible.

Please elaborate, your post was not useful in any sense of the word.

 

[DarkEspeon]

Please elaborate, your post was not useful in any sense of the word.

It wasn't useful because I didn't feel like repeating a post in the same page.

Second, Pokemon is a true system seller. It could be a launch title and still break records.

The reasons these are not on 3DS are likely due to maintaining compatibility with BW and GF needing extra time to work on their first ever full 3D engine and game.

If developers and publishers used your logic, either there would never be new consoles or every IP would die at the start of each hardware generation.

 

[Katakiri]

I'm willing to bet that we play as N. From a story perspective it would make sense as well as giving a legitimate reason to start with no Pokemon. Aside from the mandatory Pokeball throw animations in-battle, N seems to only use wild Pokemon as far as his dialog suggests so going off that, it would make sense that he has no Pokemon of his own.

Think about it: N gets separated from Zekrom/Reshiram somehow and befriends a starter Pokemon that protects him from wild Pokemon à la the wild Starly attack in DPP. Then he begins a Pokemon journey and gives the Pokemon Trainer thing a try to understand Black/White's point of Pokemon & humans living together while he searches for Zekrom/Reshiram and slowly starts to understand how wrong he was. Meanwhile Ghetsis revives Team Plasma and, with his new views on Pokemon & Humans, N tries to take him down.

I mean, hell, none of the Gym Leaders have ever seen N before. Only Alder, the Elite 4, & Professor Juniper have ran into him. He'd have no problem challenging Gyms like any other Trainer.

Slam some BS about Kyurem in there and you've got a legitimate sequel.


The only issue is the whole female trainer thing. Although N could easily be made female, it'd clash with the original story. (Although HG/SS seemed to have no problem butchering Silver & Crystal into the worst character designs yet while entirely ignoring Blue/Leaf's existence.)

 

[Mario With Lasers]

blahblah3DS

(...) because if I had to bet I'd say the next Pokemon games after BW2 are going to be on the 3DS.

Well no shit, Game Freak can't sit on their asses forever and never develop anything for the 3DS.

People like you are why I believe Apple fanboys are the worst ones in existence. I'm willing to bet that you said the same about Android at one point.

Do I feel madness. Dude, I don't like Apple. But it's not my fault Nintendo sees Apple on the horizon with their Angry Birds and hipster shit and expanded market strategy only for Nintendo to go out of their way to... add 3D to their handheld and a tablet to their console. "Oh, they're more potent now too! Third-parties love next-gen specs" this will not bode well and, if both sides keep their mentality for the next generation, Nintendo will risk losing as much market as Sony lost this gen (granted, Nintendo has MUCH MORE to bank on if all their plans fail, but).

I'm willing to bet that we play as N. (...)

But how would you... catch pokémon? Would N atually become a "pokémon trainer" by the end of the plot?

 

[blasphemy1]

Well no shit, Game Freak can't sit on their asses forever and never develop anything for the 3DS.

You implied the 3DS will fail, which if that were true then why would they need to develop for it? You either acknowledge the system and its popularity or you can continue to contradict yourself.

If developers and publishers used your logic, either there would never be new consoles or every IP would die at the start of each hardware generation.

How does this make any sense at all? An IP can be more than just sequels, just like Pokemon. BW2 are direct sequels with the same brand name which is why from a publishing standpoint it makes sense to stay on the DS. Why do you think most AAA games finish their time on a single system? There are certainly exceptions, but that's typically the trend seen in the gaming industry.

 

[Not Scicky]

I think Black and White 2 are going to be GF's attempt at giving us something bigger than the normal 3rd version games, but not quite as drastic as a brand new 3DS adventure, in order to get a little more time in developing the 3DS installments. I'm okay with waiting if the games we do finally get are as good as I think they could be.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

You implied the 3DS will fail, which if that were true then why would they need to develop for it? You either acknowledge the system and its popularity or you can continue to contradict yourself.

I said it would "sink", but did not specify in which sense because it's "neither here nor there" (brainfart there, I meant it's not the time nor the place to discuss it, not that it's irrelevant).

How does this make any sense at all? An IP can be more than just sequels, just like Pokemon. BW2 are direct sequels with the same brand name which is why from a publishing standpoint it makes sense to stay on the DS. Why do you think most AAA games finish their time on a single system? There are certainly exceptions, but that's typically the trend seen in the gaming industry.

Besides, it seems a bit nonsensical to think Game Freak, the master of spaghetti code, would really try their luck into remaking their engine for a third-version-disguised-as-sequel in a new handheld, when the old one would work just fine.

 

[Lugztina]

Besides, it seems a bit nonsensical to think Game Freak, the master of spaghetti code, would really try their luck into remaking their engine for a third-version-disguised-as-sequel in a new handheld, when the old one would work just fine.

Dude, it's just time to move on. Besides, the 3DS does have a lot of really good features including better multiplayer system, streetpass, apps, 3D video, web browser, and of course the 3D screen. If the new games took advantage of these feature especially the multiplayer since I hate the friendcode system, I'm pretty sure you'd buy the 3DS. Even if it didn't happen, it is still time to move on.

 

[Phadunk]

38 pages with no real news.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Dude, it's just time to move on. Besides, the 3DS does have a lot of really good features including better multiplayer system, streetpass, apps, 3D video, web browser, and of course the 3D screen. If the new games took advantage of these feature especially the multiplayer since I hate the friendcode system, I'm pretty sure you'd buy the 3DS. Even if it didn't happen, it is still time to move on.

...What does anything has to do with anything. You talk as if [something] was a girl who just dumped me and I should forget her, and yet I fail to even fathom what that something would be.

Game Freak may be an awesome second party for giving us Pokémon, but we all know they aren't exactly *reliable* when it comes to being bold (or hiring beta testers but eh). They won't make a third game+sequel for a new handheld, even if it has a bajillion new features, if the first game was out in a handheld with a player base ten times larger. It would cost more money and more time for something that we know they wouldn't even take more advantage. At most, they would use the new multiplayer features, the streetpass for local events, maybe the stronger specs so there's no lag/pixelization anywhere in the game and huh that's it.

And again, the 3DS has like 15 million consoles shipped (and that's after a drastic price cut, but I digress), while the DS has 150 million. They would never release BW2 for the 3DS. "But it would be a system seller!" no. Game Freak always plays it safe. They only release their games once the handheld has established itself.

Now, maybe, maybe, maaaaaybe, I could see a 5th Gen RS remake/sequel being released for the 3DS as those games have nothing to do with BW but still, I don't think they'll do much until 3DS's sales get a bit bulkier. Granted, that will probably happen BEFORE 2014, which is when I think 5th Gen will come to an end, so the RS remakes being 3DS-only might really happen... Or maybe Game Freak will pussy out and make them for the DS and add a couple extra features, like the ones BW had on the DSi.

Besides, who said I won't buy the 3DS? lol

38 pages with no real news.

Imagine a couple months from now when the rumours start sprouting. Orange Islands!!!