SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

[Gabe]

That's nice and all, but the anniversary was last year.

This is just straight-up pandering.

It’s part of the same generation. I’m pretty sure Gamefreak sees it as such & it also is the cap on the DS series of games.

But you know what, if it makes you feel better then think that. I’m not sure how fans think companies are successful without promoting their most financially lucrative properties. Nobody is forcing you to buy the games.

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

I’m not sure how fans think companies are successful without promoting their most financially lucrative properties.

They can promote it just fine with NEW stuff and NEW characters, like USUM has done before. Bringing back old stuff over and over again is just pandering.

 

[Gabe]

They can promote it just fine with NEW stuff and NEW characters, like USUM has done before. Bringing back old stuff over and over again is just pandering.

How do you even know it’s old? Did you think ORAS was Gen 3 pandering? This is nonsensical.

 

[yourDeadGrandad]

Team Rocket get Alola forms?

Neat.

 

[Karxrida]

How do you even know it’s old? Did you think ORAS was Gen 3 pandering? This is nonsensical.

There's a difference between remaking an old game and injecting old stuff (especially Gen I stuff we've already been overdosed on) into a new game.

 

[Worldie]

It all depends on *HOW* it is injected.

We don't even know if it really is Giovanni doing things as far as I've read. It could be very well someone insane trying to do insane things and use Team Rocket logo to self-approve him. We need more informations before judging if this idea is good or not.

On that note, the hypotetical "team up all the bad guys" would namely be fitting the fact that several previous bad guys had a Cameo in S/M, either with a minor dialogue during storyline, or in Battle Tree.

 

[Gabe]

There's a difference between remaking an old game and injecting old stuff (especially Gen I stuff we've already been overdosed on) into a new game.

I just think we should at least wait for the game to be released or datamined before we start accusing Gamefreak of Gen 1 pandering. I think that’s fair. There is still so much we don’t know. It could very well be the JJ Abrams version of A New Hope, but I’m optimistic.

 

[Zowayix]

so far we've only confirmed that Ultra Space connects the Mega Timeline with the Original Timeline, both timelines we can experience by playing the original Gen III and Gen VII).

Wait, where was this officially mentioned?

 

[Kurona]

So can anyone actually explain why Team Rocket returning is a bad thing without using the word 'pandering', which has by this point been used so many times on the thread that it's pretty much lost all meaning? Because it really just feels like you're -immediately- jumping on any reference or comeback as bad.

 

[Worldie]

Wait, where was this officially mentioned?

Pretty much the entire Delta Episode points to that if you remember.

The Dragon chick goes as far as reminding that "there could be another Hoenn that has never discovered Mega Evolution".

Also, even though it's not directly stated that Ultraspace connects those specific dimensions, the postgame of S/M with Anabel's backstory also points to this conclusion, that she comes from the dimension where Mega Evolution does not exist.

 

[Sirya]

So can anyone actually explain why Team Rocket returning is a bad thing without using the word 'pandering', which has by this point been used so many times on the thread that it's pretty much lost all meaning? Because it really just feels like you're -immediately- jumping on any reference or comeback as bad.

The same reason some ppl don't want content IN POKÉMON because that content may be interpreted as fanservice. Like... really? Give me a pair of games similar to BW2 (or Zeta/Omicron, Reborn, Insurgence...) in terms of content, I don't care about the fanservice. In fact, if the fanservice is more content, more post-game, sidequests... Give me all of that. Now.

 

[Kanburi]

I don't understand why people think Team Rocket making a return is such a bad thing, even if it is "fan service" or "pandering". As far as we know, it could be post-game content that you don't even have to go through, or they could have occupied a battle facility or whatever (I haven't read any leaks for further possible information). It's fine to speculate, but why not wait until we get more details until we make judgements?

 

[Worldie]

As far as I've read, there's been heavy hints that Team Rocket is not post-game, and it's actually part of the actual storyline.

 

[Kanburi]

Okay, I see why some people would be upset, but here's another idea that just popped into my head (apologies if others have already come up with this):

Hide

Before I go on, I need to mention that there needs to be some translation errors/uncertainties for this to work. Up until now, they've used 地方 to mention regions in Japanese, and in the Famitsu interview and the official website, they talk about being able to travel to other 世界 (worlds) via Ultra Hall, but these two need to be interchangeable for my idea. After all, they could be using 世界 on purpose to not let us know that we can travel to other regions via Ultra Hall. I will be using "world" from now on, but keep in mind it might be interchangeable with "region".

What if the world that Necrozma originally stole light from is Kanto? We know that the Ultra Hall allows to you go to other worlds (especially to where Mewtwo resides, you know, the gen one legendary), which is how Ultra Recon Squad originally came to Alola to stop/control (depending on the version) Necrozma. And what if, like Team Skull and the Aether Foundation, Team Rocket is the one behind/funding Ultra Recon Squad? Could make sense if the leaks are real and Team Rocket is indeed part of the main story.

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

So can anyone actually explain why Team Rocket returning is a bad thing without using the word 'pandering', which has by this point been used so many times on the thread that it's pretty much lost all meaning? Because it really just feels like you're -immediately- jumping on any reference or comeback as bad.

Because it means they're making new versions of Sun/Moon only with added stuff that comes from Gen 1 when they could use that to expand further on Sun/Moon stuff instead.

Or, ya know, expand Gen 3-6 stuff for that matter. It doesn't need to be Kanto every single time.

 

[Siggu]

So can anyone actually explain why Team Rocket returning is a bad thing without using the word 'pandering', which has by this point been used so many times on the thread that it's pretty much lost all meaning? Because it really just feels like you're -immediately- jumping on any reference or comeback as bad.

It's not that it's Team Rocket. It's not that there's a lot of things that return from previous gens.

The thing that makes it pandering is that it's nearly always something from Gen I (The player family and Kukui's entire backstories, all the Alolan forms, Team Rocket, Mewtwo being the only showcased non-Gen VII legendary... and pretty much everything in XY). All other gens are like they don't exist.

It eventually gets to a point it's annoying.

 

[Kiga]

As far as I've read, there's been heavy hints that Team Rocket is not post-game, and it's actually part of the actual storyline.

Can you source those hints? As far as I've seen, the only official recognition of anything related to Team Rocket are those grunt clips from the cards that Serebii posted. I may have missed something, and I don't go out of my way to dig around in supposed leaks or rumors, but at the moment, it seems like the internet will be absolutely rife with Team Rocket rumors, so everything should be taken with more than just a pinch of salt. At this point, trying to speculate on Team Rocket's role in the story is like trying to say that the Switch game will be set in a region based on the UK. Just as we only factually know that they're working on a Switch game, we only factually know that Team Rocket will be involved in some way with USUM, and we know literally nothing else.

Because it means they're making new versions of Sun/Moon only with added stuff that comes from Gen 1 when they could use that to expand further on Sun/Moon stuff instead.

Or, ya know, expand Gen 3-6 stuff for that matter. It doesn't need to be Kanto every single time.

Of all of the past teams, Team Rocket was really the only group that was positioned to come back in as a whole. Plasma's story is too big and, along with Flare's, is completely unrelated and would be overshadowing to try to strong arm either of them in. Colress and Charon could work well enough on their own, but neither necessarily represent their teams' overall goals.

Rocket, Magma, Aqua, and Galactic all collapsed when their leadership left, either because Maxie and Archie were overwhelmed, or because Cyrus straight up abandoned Galactic to stay in an alternate dimension devoid of life. Only Giovanni came anywhere close to stating the intention to rebuild. If they were going to bring in an old team for whatever reason, and have them fit into the new plot, which team do you pick, if not Rocket? Every group except for Rocket and Skull had a fixed and rigid purpose or plot, whereas the former two are rather flexible in where and how they can be used. Rocket works as a mafia organization that can slide in anywhere, and of any of the groups, they are definitely the most opportunistic.

This isn't Gen I pandering, not to the extent that locking Alolan forms to Gen I pokémon exclusively, using the Kanto starters in X and Y, and copying Santalune Forest as a Viridian Forest ripoff was, because Team Rocket is already a multi-generational organization. At the very least, of all of the other things that actually is pandering, this is probably one of the things that is the least worthy of complaints and accusations. Team Rocket's return was predictable, if not here, then as some point in the future, because it was something that was never really off the table.

For all that we know at this point, this actually could be some kind of "Rainbow Rocket" amalgamation of other teams, so there's not really any point in yay-or-nay bandwagoning when we really only have one picture to go from. What we do know is that this is not the same Sun and Moon like so many wanted to believe, and that the story is getting deeper than we already thought it would, and I, for one, am grateful for that.

 

[Sulfurian]

https://www.melty.fr/pokemon-ultra-...revoir-la-pokemon-company-repond-a627153.html

Confirmed to be correctly translated and from a real interview, no new alolan forms. It's amazing how disconnected from the player base the devs actually are.

 

[Worldie]

To be honest that disconnection is often caused by the fact that a lot of the information is released only in Japan, in Japanese, and gets eventually shown elsewhere via "leaks" or pictures of posters, leaving up to translations from Japanese pictures.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Why disconnected? Just because they have a plan for the franchise and don't let players whims influence it?

 

[Martin890]

https://www.melty.fr/pokemon-ultra-...revoir-la-pokemon-company-repond-a627153.html

Confirmed to be correctly translated and from a real interview, no new alolan forms. It's amazing how disconnected from the player base the devs actually are.

Actually.....that interview is wrong. It was disproven on Twitter, even Joe confirmed it (I'm following some threads right now about it, so).

 

[Project_Mars]

Umm, I’m pretty sure that USUM were quite a bit a ways in development before we learned about Alolan Forms. To say “No new Alolan Forms? Gamefreak is so disconnected from their player base” seems like a pretty dumb sentiment when decisions on putting new ones into USUM would have been made far before anyone outside the company would have had a chance to form an opinion on Alolan Forms due to the fact that we didn’t even know it would be a thing.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Pandering Paradox: I think the issue with Rainbow Rocket isn't how it'll be implemented, it's just that it's yet something else from Gen I. We want stuff from Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos. Alolan Forms restricted to Gen I Pokemon, Samson Oak is Professor Oak's cousin, player being from Kanto, nod to Nugget Bridge, Red & Blue being bosses of the Battle Tree, Lillie & Lusamine going to Kanto to meet Bill at the end of the game, and I'm sure others I missed. "But, here's (thing/character) from (another region)"! Yes, we did have references and character from all the regions, but Kanto was at the forefront of many of the references. Now, there is a reason, in-game its said people from Kanto (and Johto but they like to ignore that part) settled in Alola and obviously they brought their culture and Pokemon with them. It was already walking on a fine line of acceptability. Plus, no matter how many Gen I references there was, it was still background stuff while Sun & Moon's main story was new content all around.

And that's the problem with Rainbow Rocket. In a game where the Gen I stuff had a solid hold on the references, now it's creeping into the main story by bringing back Team Rocket. With Rainbow Rocket, we now have FOUR antagonist groups: Team Skull, Aether Foundation, Ultra Recon Squad, and Rainbow Rocket. And this is from the franchise where they couldn't fully develop four character that was the player's friends and rivals (Gen VI), now they're going to have to develop four groups with each one having at least 2 or more notable characters? And they already confirmed that the game only has twice the amount of extra story content as SM, and SM didn't have enough for just Team Skull and Aether Foundation so how are they shoving in two other groups? One additional group, the Ultra Recon Squad, fine. They're new characters expanding upon the major discovery of Ultra Space (and that it connects to a world with a completely different race of people, aliens if you want to stretch the term to multi-dimensional beings (though SM also revealed normal space aliens exist too so...)). But another group, and its a group who is from an older team, the one from Gen I who's goals are very basic? I want to learn more about Team Skull (especially), Aether Foundation, and this new Utra Recon Squad. I kind of know Team Rocket's deal, I want to learn more about the other villain teams. If they saved the return for Team Rocket for Gen VIII's main story I'd be excited, but no, they're shoving them into USUM, hogging those precious additional story content added in that could have been used to expand on other characters (and Rainbow Rocket probably isn't going to get much development because of this either).

And why? Because pandering often pays out. Remember, the third version/second paired games don't ever sell as much as the first paired games. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon prospects is to sell less than Sun & Moon. GF needs to add in something to really convince people to buy USUM even though they already have SM. GF deciding to not have these games be sequels already made this an uphill battle (and the lack of major updates for months combined with updates not really showing much different from Sun & Moon to the general consumer market didn't help, GF/Pokemon Company marketing department). They're in desperate need of something to hook in players, especially those older players from the Gen I days. So, they brought back Team Rocket. It's pretty much automatic at this point from GF. Want to boost sales? Bring back something from Gen I. This feels like a marketing decision.

This just made my interest for the game decrease. Not that it matters, I'm still getting it, but now I'm fearing about the adhesion of the story parts. They're going to need a master seamstress to stitch this plot together to make any sort of sense let alone depth of intrigue.

Wait, where was this officially mentioned?

S/M's Anabel is literally the one from Emerald, she got sucked from the Original Timeline via Ultra Wormhole and transported to the Mega Timeline. Obviously it's not clearly said, but her theme being Gen III's version of the Hoenn Battle Frontier and not Gen VI's version is a giveaway that's the intent.

 

[Zowayix]

And they already confirmed that the game only has twice the amount of extra story content as SM

Twice the amount of "scenarios", not story, if you translate it directly. Who knows what that means.

 

[Kurona]

I can understand disliking the emphasis on Gen 1 stuff so much... except that stuff from older gens do return all the time. A majority of the Megas were Gen 3, we got the Zygarde stuff in S/M, I've lost count of the amount of times Cynthia and Looker have shown up... the truth is that callbacks, references to and returns of elements from all previous gens do happen. It's just that it tends to happen to Gen 1 more, which, well, it's the first gen. Of course it'd get the most emphasis.