Pokethon Counterathon, now with more Mindgames!

[Notesalot]

Hi y'all! I joined Smogon and Shoddy about a week ago, but I've read all the rules/smogs/lists that seemed helpful, so I hope this RMT lives up to the standards. I would also like to thank Lockeness for taking me under his wing (of Latias) and providing very helpful feedback, and also Scofield for inspiration with his amazing Dark Messenger set from the RMT Archives, which I unfortunately did not have the skill to pull off. Without further ado, let me introduce my team!

At a Glance

Synergy

When I started, I just copied Scofield's Dark Messenger team because I didn't know where to start, and he provided a good explanation on how to utilize the team, as well as counters and strategies;

I used this team for a while, but I became frustrated with Latias sweeps and Ground-type stalls, especially Hippowdon. I had Vaporeon to counter Gyarados and bulky waters with HP Electric, but I found myself losing it quickly (maybe a function of my skill). Heatran was Choice Scarfed, but I later changed it to Scala Berry so I could still get off Stealth Rocks on popular counters. Still, once I lost these guys the rest of my team seemed to fall apart, and I wanted something different. I also wanted a ground-type counter yet still keep Gyarados in check.

I think I have found a few substitutions, and I think they have been working quite well.


Taking heavily after Scofield's Dark Messenger, this team relies on the annoying combination of Salamence and Magnezone, combining them with Gengar as a lure for Salamence's steel counters. Also, Magnezone traps and removes these steels which hinder my DD sweeping Salamence. These three are supported with a some bulkier offensive and defensive choices that cover other weaknesses in my main core.

Changes will be in this color

Descriptions

Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/192 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat

The typical Infernape starter moveset and EV spread. I chose him (It just didn't feel right making it a girl) because he can take out those annoying Heatran leads. I have to be careful with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and, most importantly, Azelf leads, but most of my team can handle them ok.
---

Salamence (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Outrage
---
One of the most dangerous pokemon in the game, in my opinion. I need Jolly to outspeed things like Scarf Jirachi and Flygon. Life Orb is just devastating when combined with a DD, and since Mence can cause so many switches, I can take advantage of both DD and Roost, especially against defences like Celebi and Vaporeon. I replaced Dragon Claw with Outrage because I wanted to keep the Jolly nature and not switch to Adamant, but I needed a more powerful sweeping move. I try and save this guy for the end game after I have KO'd all my opponents steel-types with Gengar and Magnezone.

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [FIRE]
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
---
Salamence was the set-up sweeper, so I needed a extremely fast sweeper to accompany him. I don't have Explosion to take care of Blissey, so that's where Infernape comes in. I dropped HP Fire for Thunderbolt because I want to outspeed other Gengars and Latias, but that leaves me vulnerable to Scizor. Tbolt is there in case my Magnezone is knocked out of commission by Dugtrio, which can be a pain. Protect was a good scouting move, but I was constantly getting owned by Scizor, so back to HP Fire it was.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [ICE]
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
---
Ahhh. This guy is an amazing steel killer. You can almost hear the sigh of frustration when you bring this bad boy on a Choiced Scizor that was meant to counter Gengar or Celebi. The EV's are to outspeed said Scizor. Explosion is there in case my Gengar was walled by Blissey, or to heavily damage Blissey and switch to Gengar. Plus, nobody expects a BOOM from behind a substitute, so I have a way to get out of some sticky situations.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
---
With the first iteration of my team, I had two pokemon that had a x4 weakness to ground. Viola! Enter Celebi. The EV's let me withstand annoyances like Gyarados, Breloom, and Salamence, and to outrun non-Choice Tyranitar. T-Wave is great for those annoying Azelf leads. Grass Knot is to deal with Hippowdon and sometimes Tyranitar. It deals with Dugtrio pretty well too, as long as I don't get hit with Crits from Night Slash.

Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 198 HP/252 Atk/60 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
---
Obviously, this guy is my revenger. He is my go-to guy for Latias when my Salamence isn't set up, and checks Salamence with Bullet Punch. I try and save him for end-game situations, as I'm deathly afraid of Magnezone trapping him. It will survive a HP fire from Celebi if I need it to, so basically I just spam U-turns a lot.


Any help/commentary/suggestions are really appreciated. Thanks Smogon for getting me so addicted to Pokemon again! :)

 

[Sheshi]

Interesting team. I think you may want to expand your descriptions a little though as it helps people rate your team better.

On Salamence, I think you might want to change the HP EV's on Salamence to DEF as this allows you more switch-ins with Mence. Also, try an Adamant Nature on Salamence, because if you're not using Outrage, you'll need a higher attack stat.

Your Gengar is okay, but it definately needs HP Fire over Protect. Explosion may be used in its place even though its a Timid Nature.

Your Magnezone has a few issues too. The EV set you have does work, however. I suggest an EV spread of 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe. You don't need to outspeed Scizor, seeing as most if not all are Choice Banded Scizors and you just need to switch Zone into CB Bullet Punch or Pursuit to be safe. Life Orb, you need to be careful though. Your Magnezone definately needs HP Ice so it has some semblance of the Boltbeam combo. HP Fire doesn't really help you that much, so HP Ice is the better option. Also, you should have a modest nature to maximise damage.

I do think HP Ice has its merits, however, HP Fire is in my opinion, much better. With 40 SPA EV's, you can OHKO Scizor with HP Fire.

 

[Notesalot]

Thanks for the tips Sheshi. HP Ice has been working well on Magnezone. However, my current EV spread has been working well for me, and Scizor doesn't ruin my substitutes with Superpower. And HP fire is back on Gengar, even though i now lose the speed ties with Latias.