Politoed

[tubbablubba]

Is running Water Absorb Politoad even worth considering (for mind games?)
If you don't bring in them in, the ability is impossible to know: given enough pokemon on your team that appear to be suited for rain, your opponent will put two and two together and try to kill Politoad and change the weather (this works for other weathers too btw) to something that "doesn't" benefit you, namely sand. You could basically engineer teams that appear to be weather teams at first glance, but are meant to fool teams and take them by surprise while still functioning fine.

That sounded utterly preposterous at first. But if I saw a bog standard looking rain team and the opponent didn't start with politoed, which does happen if they fear you have something that can OHKO it in your lead spot. Then they just used water absorb politoed and bulky DD Kingdra and SubSeed Ludicolo and Spinner Kabutops.

It would be the greatest mindgame of all time.

 

[PokéMontage]

Ludicolo and Kabutops aren't that great without the rain, and Politoed is a poor option if you aren't abusing Drizzle. It's basically like running a team of 5 since you cannot switch Politoed in at all without having your cover blown, and the opponent will be very suspicious anyway if you never set up the rain for your rain team. Frankly, I don't see how losing those major Speed/Power boosts could possibly be worth any small benefits you get from the surprise factor.

 

[Yogi Bear.]

I don't understand what you're suggesting. You want to make what looks like a rain team but give Politoed Water Absorb instead of Drizzle? Why would you ever want to do that? To surprise the opponent when you reveal that your Politoed is a waste of a team slot, thereby neutering the rest of your team?

The problem with my idea is admittedly what GameMaster said: there are better Pokemon for WA.

But none of the rest of them are blindly assumed to be weather starters. Teams that have weather starters try to keep their stater out of the fight so when the opponent's goes down, there's no other Pokemon to change the weather, and they can just send their starter in for a turn and instantaneously control a large portion of the fight.

Because there's a preview at the beginning of the game, your opponent will see that you have Politoed and err on the side of caution.

Ideally, your team should be able to function should be able to function if they meet the team type of team they're supposed to be impersonating. Thee's no threat to them if you can't change it to a different type of weather, so you have to be able to play to that strategy.

But when the weather's different, you'll need Pokemon that can function in both Rain and Sand for example. Only so many Pokemon can do that but I thinkit can be managed.

Edit: Tell me if I'm still not making sense.I'm saying it in my head repeatedly to try and explain it well, but now I feel like a broken record. G_G Let me know if you either don't get it or think that the costs for the strategy just don't merit usage of it.

If you "need" rain n the short term, you could always have someone with bulk and Rain Dance "set it up". In reality, Toed is on the frail side so it doesn't make sense to bring it in on any Pokemon.

 

[Dracolosse]

Weather is so annoying this Gen, it just takes diversity away... We now have like 150 new pokemon, tons of new moves and DW abilities but 3 times less diversity in the metagame.

Just ban Sand Stream, Drought, Drizzle and Snow Warning since all the pokes that get these also have DW abilities, and get it over with. Maybe we can then play a fun metagame.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Weather is so annoying this Gen, it just takes diversity away... We now have like 150 new pokemon, tons of new moves and DW abilities but 3 times less diversity in the metagame.

Just ban Sand Stream, Drought, Drizzle and Snow Warning since all the pokes that get these also have DW abilities, and get it over with. Maybe we can then play a fun metagame.

Then you essentially killed Sand Offense,Sand Stall,Rain Offense(BAN :D),lolRain stall,Sun offense,lolSun Stall,lolHail offense,and Hail stall.
Not including the weather balance teams.

 

[Dracolosse]

Rain stall and Sun stall are nonexistent, Hail fails anyway, Rain offense is broken, and Sand offense is basically Doryuzuu in every battle.

I admit just banning everything might be a little extreme, but I'm just frustrated of seeing the same 3-4 teams on a rotation basis.

I'm definitely looking forward to a no-weather-abilities tier. And, oh well, the moves Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm and Hail do exist, along with their items...

 

[Yogi Bear.]

I think I've sort of perfected what I intended: bluff a weather lead, while using a different lead entirely. You can keep Drizzle or not: it's up to you. But bringing a Politoed in is somehow easier when it has Drizzle.

 

[alphatron]

The only good set is the specs set.

The bulky sets on either end don't work. It has the exact same defensive stats as Ninetales with only 17 more hp and much better typing due to lack of weaknesses. But a frail pokemon is still frail all the same.

The scarf set is nice until you realize that it sucks at using anything that isn't water STAB. Base 90 Spa isn't awful but its nothing to write home about. The ice beams, hp grasses, and FBs still come off as hideously weak. And now he's even frailer.

Spec ftw

 

[New World Order]

Disagree with Alphatron, Scarf Politoed can revenge kill many dangerous threats Specs wishes it could. Excadrill, Thundurus, Tornadus, SD Landorus etc. Even with Specs, your gonna be spamming Hydro Pumps 90% of the time, so the lack of power for the coverage moves isn't that big an issue.

 

[Ms. Denbo]

I disagree as well.

I find Politoed's support/specially defensive set is very useful. Encore, Perish Song, Toxic, and Scald is the set I use. And as I said to all those crazy Life Orb/NastyPlot/I'm-psychotic-and-going-to-make-Drought-Ninetales-offensive sets, when you have a Pokémon in charge of setting up your weather in a metagame FULL of weather, its main function is to live - to stay alive. With Politoed's mediocre special attack and speed combination, odds are he's going to take a heavy hit and be out of the match while your opponent lols and send in their weather guy. Appealing as Specs, Rain Boosted, Hydro Pump sounds, you'll be really sad when your rain is gone early. He's not a revenge killer, he's not a sweeper, he's the rain man. He needs to be able to switch in a couple of times at least. Choice locking him is begging for your opponent to out-predict you and either kill him when he stays in or take advantage of the easily forced switch.

Good predictions make defensive Politoed an asset to my team rather than a burden. Scald deals fine damage in the rain and helps himself and the team with burns, Toxic hits those Jellicent/Rotom-W/etc. switches, Encore is Encore, and Perish Song forces troublesome Pokémon out.

I don't understand why everyone is so set on these suicidal, all-out attacking weather starting Politoeds and Ninetales.

 

[New World Order]

All out attack Politoed does have its perks, while I agree defensive Politoed offers great survivability, Scarftoed picks off so many pokes on opposing weathers, whiles Specstoed actually has incredible power behind its Hydro Pumps. While Politoed's SpA isn't spectacular, the sheer power of Hydro Pump makes an offensive set viable.

Ninetails on the other hand is a different story. I have used it many times and can say without a doubt that Ninetails is the worst Pokemon in OU. NP boosted HP Fighting fails to OHKO Tyranitar dammit, and flamethrower without an NP fails to kill most steels with any SpD investment. Not to mention Ninetail's pathetic defenses mean that LO can set up KOs from like Bullet Punch or something. Ninetails' atrocious offenses mean that the only set that could work at all is the defensive set, Will-o-Wisp often does more damage that Ninetails' attacks.

 

[Katakiri]

Then you essentially killed Sand Offense,Sand Stall,Rain Offense(BAN :D),lolRain stall,Sun offense,lolSun Stall,lolHail offense,and Hail stall.
Not including the weather balance teams.

Sandstorm, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Hail.
Smooth Rock, Heat Rock, Wet Rock, Icy Rock.

I may run Drought...but god I hate auto-weather. It's making people forget that traditional weather is just as legitimate of a strategy as auto-weather.

 

[alphatron]

Will respond in depth later, but this is kind of what I was aiming at.

How exactly are Ninetales' defenses atrocious while politoed's are great? As I said, its a measly 17 hp difference. At least Ninetales can actuallz switch into CB Scizor.

I'm bitter because my scarftoed failed to kill a victreebel with ice beam. It wasn't even at full health. It's weak. 9 points higher than Tales, but weak.

It's a gooe exca check.

 

[Ms. Denbo]

I think Ninetales is a great support Pokemon, and I think Politoed is a great support Pokemon. I think pushing them to do anything else when they're your auto-weather is stretching them too far and more harm than help for your team.

Of course the sets are viable; I run offensive Ninetales and Politoed sometimes. BUT I make sure to do it outside of a weather team.

And I'm not sure exactly how any Politoed is an Excadrill check. If Poli comes in on the switch he gets nailed hard, and if Excadrill is coming in, it's obviously Sandstorm and you're obviously Choice locked into a move he can take, because no one's going to let their Excadrill get Hydro Pumped.

 

[skitz0phrenic]

Then you essentially killed Sand Offense,Sand Stall,Rain Offense(BAN :D),lolRain stall,Sun offense,lolSun Stall,lolHail offense,and Hail stall.
Not including the weather balance teams.

Or we could just go back to the way these teams used to work without the incredibly lame easy buttons known as auto-weather..